GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well.

POSTED BY: PASTORBADGER
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 23:57
SHORT URL:
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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:14 PM

PASTORBADGER


Not to mention that the script for Wrath of Kahn said Spock was dead. Star War's script said Obi Wan was dead...

And they were! Gad. It's like no one ever heard of resuscitation.

STEERING... No, wait. Someone already covered that. Never mind. ;)

Seems pretty clear that we should vote on this. Take a count, so Joss can easily access fan opinion on the subject. Of course, this isn't a yes or no question. There are degrees of faith involved here.

Enter you vote :

A) Wash MUST stay dead! Resurrection is the work of the devil, and “thou must not suffer a witch to live”. If I see Alan in the credits of the next movie, I’m bringing rope and kindling to the theater.

B) Wash SHOULD stay dead. No matter how you allow him to survive, it will cheapen the franchise, and I’m the kind of person who worries about cheapening franchises, subtext and social relevance in movies.

C) It’s O.K. to bring Wash back, IF it’s done in a clever and convincing manner. No visits to the Sacred MacGuffin or time travel or mind-melds… It must be elegant and believable in the real universe, the Firefly ‘verse, and the universe in which I live.

D) PLEASE bring Wash back in any way you can! If I can suspend my disbelief enough to believe in artificial gravity, or enough to believe that Jayne has a statue in his honor, then I’ll swallow whatever Joss dishes out and be grateful for it. Pander to me!

E) There IS NO FIREFLY without Wash. I won’t go to see any movie with less than the perfect cast. Well…I’ll probably still go, but I won’t buy the DVD. Who am I kidding? I’ll probably still buy the DVD…but I’ll keep it in a box in my garage with the Jon Pertwee “Doctor Who’s” and the George Lasenby “James Bond”! So there!


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Tuesday, April 4, 2006 5:18 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


E




p.s. glad to be of help PastorB

it's my insanity that keeps me sane hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 5:18 AM

RAE


I hope Wash is still alive. I trust Joss to do the best possible thing. One possibility that no one has mentioned is the blue hands guys. They weren't really mentioned much in the movie, but we know they are out there. They are just as interested in getting River back as anyone, probably more so. They may very well have been the ones to find Wash, and we already know that they are ruthless. They probably are lurking right behind the alliance ships, tracking the crew. They would not trust anyone to take care of the problem. Wash would be a good back up plan. Save him, hold him hostage as bait. Why keep chasing River all over the 'verse, when one hostage will bring the crew to them?

Rae

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 5:29 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Rae:
I hope Wash is still alive. I trust Joss to do the best possible thing. One possibility that no one has mentioned is the blue hands guys. They weren't really mentioned much in the movie, but we know they are out there. They are just as interested in getting River back as anyone, probably more so. They may very well have been the ones to find Wash, and we already know that they are ruthless. They probably are lurking right behind the alliance ships, tracking the crew. They would not trust anyone to take care of the problem. Wash would be a good back up plan. Save him, hold him hostage as bait. Why keep chasing River all over the 'verse, when one hostage will bring the crew to them?

Rae



Unfortunately, I've heard that the "hands of blue" were taken care of in the graphic novels that cover the time between the end of the series and the start of the movie. I haven't read them myself, but the word is that they're gone. I don't know enough to say if it's likely that they'd just be replaced.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 5:41 AM

AGATSU


Hi guys!

This is my first official browncoat action apart from buying the DVDs and trying to convert my friends - but (unfortunately), I've just seen both Firefly and Serenity for the first time about 2 week ago (but fortunately in the right order off the DVDs).


But I guess you're more interested In Wash than me, so here goes...

Most of you fail to mention that one of the main reasons why Wash was killed off is that from this point on the audience beliefs that anyone - or EVERYONE - may die. It did a very good job for Serenity as such.
Now, if there won't be a sequel, all is well, storytelling-wise. (Not emotinally-stable-wise for the fans, though.)

Noooow, if there is going to be a sequel in any form, things get more complicated.

WASH IS DEAD. In this case, which is far more believable, there will be the problem about Zoe that was mentioned earlier in this thread. She is defined by two persons - Mal and Wash. Now Wash is no more, so half of her "personality" is gone, and she'd be a very dull character (and therefore the most likely to be killed off next), especially since it was that mixture of loving, caring wife and stone-cold soldier that made her so interesting (Her legs help, too). Since Mal has already taken the role of the haunted struggling ex-military cynic, maybe she would channel her love to the crew as a whole, becoming a mother figure, which would also fill the void Book left to a certain degree.

WASH IS ALIVE!
The Serenity crashes. A Reaver ship obviously gets there first, since Wash is impaled by a harpoon. The crew leaves Wash for dead and hurries into the station.
The Reavers are on their tail, not interested in Wash since he's dead meat.
The Alliance is busybusybusy destroying the whole Reaver fleet - this must have happened one way or another, since Reavers never quit and the Alliance obviously came out on top of the tactical situation, allbeit too late. At least one alliance ship makes it to the landing bay in the middle of all this, finds Wash, waits for back-up (not really keen on having to go through Reavers to get to their targets when the latter might do their job for them and get decimated in the process.) and "save" Wash for questioning.
( I DO think they have the technology, since the Alliance fixed Book, and in almost every episode, someone gets shot or stabbed (well, mostly Mal) and they seem to be fine at the end of the episode, and that's with just the crappy medical equipment aboard the Serenity. )
The Operative finds an alternate route while the Reavers are now trapped - in the untruest sense of the word - between our crew and the Alliance. (The Alliance choses an alternate route that requires them to remove a wall). Just to wrap it up a bit.

So, Wash lives. It's still cheesy, although possible. So we need a twist. Like maybe it ISN'T that easy to repair damage to the spine, and Wash would be confined to a wheelchair.
Let's face it, he was just sitting around all day, anyways, so it wouldn't affect his role in the series that much - except for making it more interesting.
( I'm strictly speaking from a storyteller's POV, of course, since I love Wash, but face it, without conflict and suffering, there really is no story, in any genre, period. Of course, the Teletubbies prove that it can still be successfull, but, well, erm... Teletubbies.)
Anyways, this compromise is the most interesting way to go with Wash, imho. Not dead, but in a wheelchair. Fair enough.

But despite of what I think or wish or write on men's room walls, the way it's most likely going to go is that Wash is indeed dead and Zoe becomes the Crew's mother now that Book is gone, just like River is most likely the pilot now that Wash. Is. Dead. Extinct like the dinosaurs he liked to play with, if you like.
E's not pinin'! E's passed on! This pilot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-WASH!!

May he rest in peace.

Oh, or maybe they could transplant his brain into one of those i-mac-looking robot thingies from "I, Robot" and give him a Hawaiian shirt.


Oh, and I vote "C", obviously.

Sorry about the long post, but it's my first and I'm all excited to talk to other fans and stuff, you know what I'm talking about.
Nice to meet y'all!

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 7:31 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Nice monty python refernce but still STEERING COLUMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's my insanity that keeps me sane hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 8:08 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown:
Nice monty python refernce but still STEERING COLUMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

it's my insanity that keeps me sane hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha



Now, let's be fair. Agatsu is saying that it's perfectly possible for Wash to have lived, at least medically.

While I disagree that he needs to die and stay dead, because Book still stays dead and that fullfills the requirement that we believe anyone could die at any second, I do agree that it's apparent that River is meant to fill Wash's job, if not his place in the family. (Whew, what a sentence!) Zoe's changing role in the family is beyond my interpersonal skills to predict, so I let it pass without comment.

Although, I would have gone with the "Bring out yer dead!" sketch from 'Grail, instead of the dead parrot reference. Perfect metaphor for this thread.

Pastorbadger: Bring out yer dead!
Random Thread Skeptic: Here you go.
Wash: I'm not dead yet!
Pastorbadger: What?
Random Thread Skeptic: Never mind him.
Wash: I think I'll go for a walk.
Random Thread Skeptic:You're not foolin' anyone, you know.
Pastorbadger: I can't take him if he's not dead.

and so on...

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 9:04 AM

AGATSU


Insane people never say they are insane. For them, everyone else is insane. So I'm not scared of people saying they're mad, because they aren't. And I can prove it, too!

"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "we're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "or you wouldn't have come here."


See, Alice is insane! She thinks she's sane and the world around her mad, but SHE's totally coo-coo and MADE UP the world around her. (The Cat doesn't count as mad since she's just a figment of Alice's twisted mind, and in reality most likely perfectly sane, as far as cats go.)
A guy named American McGee picked up on that insanity concept and made a great PC game called "American McGee's Alice" a few years back, a GREAT and twisted game that's gonna be made into a movie in the next few years and potentially not suck. Actually, I was thinking that Summer would make an EXCELLENT Alice for that movie, but the last I heard they have their eyes set on Sarah Michelle Gellar. Not a wise choice imo.
What was my point again? Quick, I need a point to end this!
Right, you're not insane unless you're a figment of my imagination, which would mean I'd have to be insane in the first place, which I ain't - a statement which of course means that I potentially AM. Unless I disembowel you with a spoon or you see me standing 3 weeks in line to see another SW Episode, you'll never know.

What does all of this have to do with Wash?
He, well, ehm, he's insanely dead. Impaled by a Reaver harpoon. Nasty business. Almost as bad as being impaled by a steering column, but that would be silly.
Do we have prove it's a Reaver harpoon? It could have been the tip of some giant park cleaning guy's leaf-impaling-thingie, you know, and Wash had better kept his mouth shut about being a leaf on the wind, because leaves tend to get stabbed by those all the time after they land.
He was a leaf with its ass dead on the ground, and no god-fearing park-cleaning-guy with a stabby-thingie to pick up leaves with will let an opportunity like that go by. As an experienced pilot, Wash should have known that.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 9:35 AM

AGATSU


Well, I think both Monty Python quotes fit the situation in their own way. "THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!" is an excellent tool to crush the futile hopes of optimistic Wash-Lovers (which is exactly what I needed it for), while "BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!" reflects the audience's feelings towards yet another "I didn't REALLY die in the last movie."-Scenario.

You don't have to disagree that Wash has to stay dead, because I would prefer him alive as well (yet in a wheelchair to damp down on the happy-happy.). I just ASSUME that Wash is gonna stay dead, but to be honest, it's not really in my jurisdiction.
And about Zoe... what else would you do with her now that Wash is gone?

Let me rephrase that.

In which direction could her character go that still keeps her interesting?

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 9:35 AM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by pastorbadger:
C) It’s O.K. to bring Wash back, IF it’s done in a clever and convincing manner. No visits to the Sacred MacGuffin or time travel or mind-melds… It must be elegant and believable in the real universe, the Firefly ‘verse, and the universe in which I live.



C), that be my vote. Happily residing in the land of "It's perfectly plausible to bring Wash back in a believable and tasteful manner even though I know darn well that Joss likes to make us cry."

Quote:

E) There IS NO FIREFLY without Wash. I won’t go to see any movie with less than the perfect cast. Well…I’ll probably still go, but I won’t buy the DVD. Who am I kidding? I’ll probably still buy the DVD…but I’ll keep it in a box in my garage with the Jon Pertwee “Doctor Who’s” and the George Lasenby “James Bond”! So there!


Laughed so hard I scared my cat.... heh...

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

Firefly/Serenity Guerilla Marketing Posters ~ http://the11thhour.home.att.net
Serenity Inspired Cafe Press Shop ~ http://www.cafepress.com/11thhourart

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 9:48 AM

11THHOUR


Quote:

Originally posted by Kizyr:
That much is true; it's actually opened up a nice area for Serenity RPG players to fill in. The RPG book, at least, mentions that grav fields might be hard to set up, but are pretty cheap to keep going (hence why hovermules are decently economical).



Hmmmmm... planet wide gravitational fields would bring an interesting element into a role playing game. Must try to read that Serenity RPG book thingy sometime... I hear it's pretty good...

Quote:

I mean, fifty years ago we were pretty good with figuring what kind of technology was cutting-edge. But, how many people would've figured that by 2005 we'd have widespread cellphone and internet usage? Meanwhile, I'm thinking that a fair amount of people in 1969 would've figured that by now we'd have landed a man on Mars. So yeah, predicting technology can get iffy.


Yes, there are many forms of technology that just can't be predicted, they seem to spring out of unexpected places. Kinda like evolution... these things have a life of their own.

Quote:

But, I got enough faith in Joss and Tim to do it right, realistic-wise or plot-wise, if they do it at all. KF


Yeppers. If they were to tackle this, and I think it would be a fascinating challenge for a storyteller to do it brilliantly, then it would really be somethin' to see.

But if Tim did it, he'd just bring Wash back so he could kill 'im again...

11th Hour

________________________________________________

"Because teenage pranks are fun when you're about to die!" - Hoban Washburne

Firefly/Serenity Guerilla Marketing Posters ~ http://the11thhour.home.att.net
Serenity Inspired Cafe Press Shop ~ http://www.cafepress.com/11thhourart

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:11 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Agatsu:
Well, I think both Monty Python quotes fit the situation in their own way. "THIS IS AN EX-PILOT!" is an excellent tool to crush the futile hopes of optimistic Wash-Lovers (which is exactly what I needed it for), while "BRING OUT YOUR DEAD!" reflects the audience's feelings towards yet another "I didn't REALLY die in the last movie."-Scenario.

You don't have to disagree that Wash has to stay dead, because I would prefer him alive as well (yet in a wheelchair to damp down on the happy-happy.). I just ASSUME that Wash is gonna stay dead, but to be honest, it's not really in my jurisdiction.
And about Zoe... what else would you do with her now that Wash is gone?

Let me rephrase that.

In which direction could her character go that still keeps her interesting?



I see what you mean about the duality of the Monty Python metaphors. And that concerns me...deeply. lol

As for what I want to happen and what I think will happen, I'll take both positions. (You should always stretch before attempting this.) I'm a firm "E" in the poll, but I wish I could envision any scenario that allowed FOX to restart production or to abandon the rights.

This would require that the FOX exec who screwed up so badly on Buffy to admit that he did exactly the same thing again (despite all attempts to bury the evidence) with Firefly, only with a contractual safety net this time.

Has anybody ever known ANY exec at ANY level in ANY industry admit he was wrong and take his lumps? This putative exec just better hope that his name doesn’t become public. Do you know any other series’ support base for whom a duster and a Winchester is fan couture? ;)



Oh, as for the Alice metaphor: You worked very hard to connect those dots. I say “Bravo and up the dosage!”

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:26 AM

STORYMARK


One day, when we get our Big Damn Sequel or a revival of the series, and Wash is still quite dead, I see many heads exploding.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:38 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
One day, when we get our Big Damn Sequel or a revival of the series, and Wash is still quite dead, I see many heads exploding.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



You believe we WILL get a revival or sequel, but DON'T belive Wash will return? Friend, you need to come into the shop to have your pessimism rotated.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 10:52 AM

ZORPRIME01


They could pull the old gag that was used on Arrested Development and have Wash's "twin brother" show up. And Zoe could say "I don't like him."



If wishes were horses, we'd all be eatin' steak.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 11:01 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
One day, when we get our Big Damn Sequel or a revival of the series, and Wash is still quite dead, I see many heads exploding.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



You believe we WILL get a revival or sequel, but DON'T belive Wash will return? Friend, you need to come into the shop to have your pessimism rotated.



Why? I've seen less-than-mega-hit movies get sequels. I've never seen a guy who got impaled throught the chest buy a pole several inches wide, survive. Especially when they've been left there to bleed out for a good 20 minutes or so, in a 'verse run by a guy who's said people won't come back from the dead in that particualr 'verse.

A sequel (which I feel is more likely than a series revival) is wishfull thinking to a degree, I'll admit. But thinking Wash is still alive is strictly denial.

And to clarify, I didn't say he wouldn't return. There are other options: flashbacks, ghosts, ect. (not that I'm terribly fond of those ideas). I just don't see any plausible way for Wash to have survived what was obviosly a very fatal wound.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 11:02 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by zorprime01:
They could pull the old gag that was used on Arrested Development and have Wash's "twin brother" show up. And Zoe could say "I don't like him."



ROFL! Hey, that reminds me: all those nattering nabobs of negativism who say it would be hoakey to bring Wash back by cloning him...who says cloning isn't a hobby on Shadow, and the Wash signed on with Serenity because he WAS the clone? We lost Wash prime in the movie.

Nah... Still hoakey. Funny though. ;)

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 11:35 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I've never seen a guy who got impaled throught the chest buy a pole several inches wide, survive. Especially when they've been left there to bleed out for a good 20 minutes or so, in a 'verse run by a guy who's said people won't come back from the dead in that particualr 'verse.



Uhm...they buried Spock! Cap't Sheridan was dead for days. Obi Wan was bisected by a light sabre and then disintigrated. Danial Jackson turned into Tinkerbelle and vanished. O.K., so no telephone pole-sized fleschettes, but seriously, no precident? Read the whole thread. I challenged you to name a science fiction series where they DIDN'T bring someone back from certain death!

And as for Joss saying "I'll never bring 'em back from the dead". I point you to the fourth Indiana Jones movie currently in production... Never believe "never" from the lips of anyone in Hollywood.

"That word you keep saying...I do not think it means what you think it means." Inigo Montoya

If you've never seen these things, then all you've ever seen is Serenity. Amazing things, those moving pictures, eh?

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 1:11 PM

LAX01


Remember when Joss kept saying, "HES DEAD"

yeah I think hes dead

btw, I didn't read it, wayyyyyy too long :D

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 2:33 PM

LADYKNIGHT


Was reading the thread...and about halfway through...something occured to me...

Shortly after everybody left, feds vs. Reavers on Serenity. Somebody (fed) shot a coolant pipe somewhere (engene room). Freezing white stuff came out, Froze the whole ship over, including Wash...who, while dead, had his nural functions frozen in the four minutes before they would have stopped. (For the record, I'm getting the majority of this from the Artemis Fowl books...Dear God, I just compared Wash to Butler)

Feds find Wash, feds take Wash. Wash gets better in core hospital...

and I'll leave the rest to Joss.

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 2:54 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I've never seen a guy who got impaled throught the chest buy a pole several inches wide, survive. Especially when they've been left there to bleed out for a good 20 minutes or so, in a 'verse run by a guy who's said people won't come back from the dead in that particualr 'verse.



Uhm...they buried Spock! Cap't Sheridan was dead for days. Obi Wan was bisected by a light sabre and then disintigrated. Danial Jackson turned into Tinkerbelle and vanished. O.K., so no telephone pole-sized fleschettes, but seriously, no precident? Read the whole thread. I challenged you to name a science fiction series where they DIDN'T bring someone back from certain death!

And as for Joss saying "I'll never bring 'em back from the dead". I point you to the fourth Indiana Jones movie currently in production... Never believe "never" from the lips of anyone in Hollywood.

"That word you keep saying...I do not think it means what you think it means." Inigo Montoya

If you've never seen these things, then all you've ever seen is Serenity. Amazing things, those moving pictures, eh?



Yes. And those series all involved ressurrection of some form, aliens and supernatural powers to varying degrees. All things which Joss has sworn off from the 'verse. When we see Klingons and Jedi on Serenity, I might expect to see Wash back. Untill then...

And I don't see much connection with Indy 4 being made (which after 7 years of promises, I'll believe when I see) and a character coming back from the dead when all those actually involved with the making of the film say nope.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 4:56 PM

SAVEWASH

Now I am learning about scary.


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
One day, when we get our Big Damn Sequel or a revival of the series, and Wash is still quite dead, I see many heads exploding.



LOL! This is funny.

My heart will break again when the BDS comes out without Wash, but I'm sure it will happen for the reason I gave in my post above. PastorB mostly ignored it, although I think that this might be a passing reference to it:
Quote:

B) Wash SHOULD stay dead. No matter how you allow him to survive, it will cheapen the franchise, and I’m the kind of person who worries about cheapening franchises, subtext and social relevance in movies.


It's not the franchise I'm worried about cheapening, and I didn't say anything about subtext or social relevance, so maybe PB really did just ignore me. That's okay. We all have our opinions on this, and until the Sequel comes out, that's all they are: opinions. Some of us just forgot that, I think.



"We need to keep our heads so we can ... keep our heads."

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Wednesday, April 5, 2006 7:08 PM

FLIPDOG


Quote:

Originally posted by lax01:
Remember when Joss kept saying, "HES DEAD"

yeah I think hes dead

btw, I didn't read it, wayyyyyy too long :D



WOW! Someone that either listens to my post or actually pays attention to what Joss has said. What a novel idea!

On a random rant: Why must you (GuywhowantsafireflymynameistoolongfortheloveofgodwhydidIchoosesomethingthislongofhisown) keep saying steering column...how about something intelligent!

Head's exploding...yes, I forsee that as well. And more: ObiWan doesn't technically return, its only a spirit form, his essence per se. You guys are talking about living flesh and blood and comparing that to a Jedi? In general, you're comparing FireFly to every other SciFi out there...hasn't it proven itself mutiple times as not being those SciFi's?

Okay, and because I still don't want to post all about it...again...many of you aren't looking at the big picture from a story standpoint. Wash being dead can be a good thing. If you want to learn more, either read 'Story" or ask me about why it does.


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Thursday, April 6, 2006 4:17 AM

CELENDIL


Well now, I ain't gonna weigh in one way or the other, I'm a gambler and I like to keep my options open till I can lay down the cash and make me a killin.... (hah..)

But I'll say this: Joss said he'd never bring anyone back from the dead. And he said that Wash was DEAD. D. E. A. D.

I dunno, I guess one half of me says "This statement is true. The previous statement is false." (Or whatever that retarded logic thing is). Maybe, just maybe, Joss just wanted people to lose hope, and then have their hope gloriously restored by his awesomeness in (if it ever happens..) a sequel.




I will say this though: This forum and the people here, are why there should be gorram laws about gorram executives cancelling our gorram shows. Cause seriously. I'ma march on up to these guys one day and shove my favourite piece up their keister 'till they sign the contract that brings back Firefly.

Video games and violent television shows don't make killers. CANCELLED TELEVISION SHOWS MAKE THEM.

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Thursday, April 6, 2006 5:04 AM

ARABIKUM


You´re absolutely right Celendil, son of Telefax!
Wash has gone to the West. No. 1 of the Top 10 reasons why Wash might probably be dead, is that giant spikey thing i saw coming out of his chest (a sufficient explanation for me)!

A.



A Dragonbreth Gilthorphial!!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:13 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Quote:


... how about something intelligent




are you trying to be an asshole?

'cause that's how you're comin' off

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:24 AM

STORYMARK


Can't believe this thread is still kicking. This reminds me of Clan Denial - an online club/group of Highlander fans who were so tramatized by the death of a particular character that they refused to accept said death (and he had his head cut off, which is even slightly more thoroughly fatal than a telephone post through the heart - but only slightly), and pretty much ignore the storyline from that point on.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:31 AM

MIKEC


after reading the visual companion i can safely clear a few things up.


it's a reaver ship that disables serenity.

wash is dead. he got a bloody thelephone pole spike directly in the chest.

as for what the alliance were up to (not saving wash) i think they where busy having some sort of space battle.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 9:56 AM

BOWIE


Quote:

Originally posted by mikeC:
after reading the visual companion i can safely clear a few things up.


it's a reaver ship that disables serenity.

wash is dead. he got a bloody thelephone pole spike directly in the chest.

as for what the alliance were up to (not saving wash) i think they where busy having some sort of space battle.



Some soprta space battle. Roflamo Thats putting it mildly.



If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 3:10 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Quote:




wash is dead. he got a bloody thelephone pole spike directly in the chest.




lets just say that if Joss wants to bring back wash I am sure he will find a way to do it

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:50 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA


You know, I think you got that right. It doesn't matter what we think. ((Alright not terribly much, but a little.)) It's Joss' Baby, and it's in his hands. And what glorious hands they are.

And to whomever made the comment on Dusters and Winchesters as Coutoure, well, I got me a bent scope, so lets find a place within 500 yards.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:59 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:59 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:59 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:59 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:59 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 6:59 PM

VINTERDRAKEN


Sure do want to belive this, but im pretty sure they actually buried wash, Yes they had cairns, but there is a cairn for Mr.Universe and they buried his remains.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Thursday, April 27, 2006 7:50 PM

KRAHAZIK


NOt bad, 1 detail thouhg, it was a Reaver ship that Shot Sernity down. Considering the wound, I think it would be plausable for Walsh to indup in a hospital somewhere. There were a lot of Alliance ships and it did take them some time to show up after River finished dealing with her issues (on the reavers). It only makes sense that a team was sent to check out Serenity while the bulk homed in on their boss.

Krahazik Dragon
3D Graphics Design and Artwork
krahazik.deviantart.com

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:35 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:35 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:35 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:35 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:35 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:35 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


I always assumed that the reason why the Alliance took their gorram time was because they first had to shoot down the reaver fleet, then land and kill all the reavers trying to eat them, and then they came storming into the facility.

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:52 AM

MIKEC


wound? wound? you vall getting a frigging spike through the chest a wound?

it killed on impact.

and yes joss has said he may bring back both book and wash if he can find a way that doesn't contradict thier deaths.

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:54 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:54 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:54 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:54 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:54 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 5:54 AM

VINTERDRAKEN


Well one way to bring them "back" and not contradict their deaths were to shoot the "missing" episodes in the first season, ie the shows between Objects in Space and BDM

You can’t stop the Signal.
Keep spreading the word about Firefly!

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Friday, April 28, 2006 6:51 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by mikeC:
wound? wound? you vall getting a frigging spike through the chest a wound?

it killed on impact.

and yes joss has said he may bring back both book and wash if he can find a way that doesn't contradict thier deaths.



Steering Column!

(Everybody, please read the entire thread before you post. Otherwise, opinions are like butts: everyones got one and they all stink.)

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Friday, April 28, 2006 7:14 AM

MICJWELCH


I too am kind of surprised at how long this thread has lasted, and at how upset people are getting over it. Again, Pastorbadger is only saying that it is possible to survive such a thing.

I watched the movie again with this in mind, and I wanted to clarify a few things. The ship that shot the spike into Serenity is not the same ship that took them down in the first place. And it was obviously a reaver ship. There was more than one of them too. You only see them for a split second. Yes, the spike was as big around as a telephone pole, but only at it's largest diameter. It's a spike. The largest size to actually hit Wash looked like about three inches (about the size of a steering column).

A thought on that too - A steering column is a blunt object that would tear through your chest. A spike would push things out of the way. So in reality the spike that hit Wash would be easier to survive than a steering column through the chest. And it hit his shoulder. Sure, it probably hit some major veins, but it's survivable with the right expertise.

Now, for those of you getting so upset about all this - Pastorbadger only said it's plausible. He never said that's what Joss Whedon should do.

And by the way, kudos to Pastorbadger for thinking this all the way through. This is problem solving and creative thinking at it's finest. Keep up the good work.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:07 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


yup he did a good job

One Day.
One Mission
One Army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, We Aim To Misbehave.
www.SerenityJune23rd.com

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Friday, April 28, 2006 8:47 AM

BRITCHICK


I vote for C.

Thank you for giving me hope!



Like fireflyfans.net?
Help keep the site running.. Why not donate?
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Saturday, April 29, 2006 5:29 AM

EVILPHOENIX


I vote F) If Wash is brought back in a sequel, I will not only not watch it, but I will destroy every other piece of Firefly merchandise I own. Goddamnit, this is supposed to be a show with meaning and integrity, not where they just make up implausible shit.

Oh yes, you all are reminding me of the people who believe Elvis is alive.

"MY NAME IS JAYNE, ya damn moonbrain! Now yer gonna DIE!!"

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 1:09 PM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by evilphoenix:
I vote F) If Wash is brought back in a sequel, I will not only not watch it, but I will destroy every other piece of Firefly merchandise I own. Goddamnit, this is supposed to be a show with meaning and integrity, not where they just make up implausible shit.

Oh yes, you all are reminding me of the people who believe Elvis is alive.

"MY NAME IS JAYNE, ya damn moonbrain! Now yer gonna DIE!!"



Well, I see someone's had their prescription of cranky pills recently refilled.

You should know that shit, as you so eloquently put it, is never implausable. If fact, it's quite inevitable.

And living on a spaceship is so emanently plausable, after all.

Besides, Elvis is sharing a condo in Oregon with Salmund Rushdi & Bigfoot. Sadly, neither has a taste for banana & peanut butter sandwitches.


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Saturday, April 29, 2006 2:25 PM

ENGINEANGEL


Quote:

LadyKnight wrote:
Was reading the thread...and about halfway through...something occured to me...

Shortly after everybody left, feds vs. Reavers on Serenity. Somebody (fed) shot a coolant pipe somewhere (engene room). Freezing white stuff came out, Froze the whole ship over, including Wash...who, while dead, had his nural functions frozen in the four minutes before they would have stopped.



...OMG, are you serious? i so have to check that part out agan because that could seriously work and add to the whole plausibility of bringing wash back. (i vote C btw) that is so shiny. so it was serenity's coolant pipe, or an allience ships's coolant pipe? i need specifics if i'm gonna find this cause i'm so out of it when looking for something like this lol

Quote:

(For the record, I'm getting the majority of this from the Artemis Fowl books...Dear God, I just compared Wash to Butler)


LOL!!! omg, you made me seriously laugh out loud when i saw this. *virtual high five*, And if you take away the hawaii shirt, the dinosaurs, the not being a hulking giant who loves guns (that would be jayne ) and...you know...the pilot thing on a spaceship 500 years in the future...maybe wash COULD be compared to Butler lol

keep flyin'.
EngineAngel

PS: for all those who are ragging on PB and totally discounting all the facts, please look at them all (i know i know, SUCH a long thread). it is totally within your rights to think that wash isn't alive still. hell, he might not be. i don't want to think that he's not, but it's possible he's soared for the last time. HOWEVER, it is still plausible, given all the reasons in this thread, that he very much could be alive. It just irks me that some people don't even pay attention to what other people say earlier in the thread or what they say to counter some points (even a couple of posts before theirs), especailly when they haven't looked at all the facts anyways and are just bringing up old things again, making the thread even longer and causing annoyance for everybody. just saying. you should look at all sides of a matter and be informed before you discount it. (and yes, i KNOW i'm obssessed with a verse that ain't real (it's what i tell my psychiatrist each week ), and maybe i'm taking everything a tad too seriously, but really guys, i have no life hee hee)

..... and....you mean....Elvis ISN'T alive?? oh man! you just totally turned my whole world upside down!!

Wash, you were the best gorram pilot in the Verse. Rest in peace...(and then come back again!!)

One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.

http://serenityjune23rd.com/


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Saturday, April 29, 2006 7:09 PM

LEAM


(sorry about the english, it's not my main lenguage)

1) I do believe wash is dead, we'll still have to see tho, with joss you never know.

2)About the resucitation thingy. I've read lots of stuff about "after a few mins his brain would be dead"etc etc.
-You can easily scoop and replace any internal organ with firefly's medicine (as we saw in the message)
-Alliance can play with ppl brain to a level of altering its capabilities (as they did with river)

Problem resucitating someone nowadays, is that once the brain loses oxygen etc, cells start to die, so after not many minutes you get brain damage, and eventualy total brain death. But the brain is still there, the brain cells are still there, substances, etc. Where am i going with this?, if you could (asumming this is sci-fi, in star trek for example this would be no biggy) work with neural patchs as easy as we fix a broken bone nowadays, they could just fix a brain which has been "dead" for much longer, even replacing damaged neurones for cloned copies would be "possible".

In the end, it's sci-fi, alliance has bad ass technology, and if joss wants to throw Wash into a bacta tank and resucitate him he will just do it. I really doubt it tho, unless joss pulls out of his sleeve any good reason for the alliance to grab and save him secretly.

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Saturday, April 29, 2006 10:42 PM

IAMJACKSUSERNAME

Well, I'm all right. - Mal


Quote:

Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
when even his Captain and his own wife had already decided he was dead.



Important point that.

Quote:

Originally posted by KellyofLuthien:
Also, Joss is not fond of cliches



*cough* Book's final words *cough*

Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
And those series all involved ressurrection of some form, aliens and supernatural powers to varying degrees. All things which Joss has sworn off from the 'verse.



*cough* River *cough*

Off to find some syrup, brb.

Quote:

Originally posted by Leebo:
Y'all are forgetting Reavers don't eat dead bodies. Recall in the very beginning of the movie Mal shoots the guy two reavers are holding and they throw the dead man down in disgust. Mal just denied them their meal in that case, so there's no reason for the reavers to chew on Wash or Mr. Universe post mortem.



Also, all those dead folk on Miranda not eaten because the reavers want their Soylent Green to be spry. That said, when the going gets hungry I'm guessing they'll resort to dead meat.


Serenity 2

      Wash
 Tada!

      Flans
 Telephone pole!

      Wash
 'tis but a scratch, it was just a flesh wound!

Wash lasered into tiny bits (to be resurrected on the 3rd movie).
--
I am Jack's meds kickin' in.

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Sunday, April 30, 2006 12:00 PM

TIMEMASTER


Forgive me if this has come up before. I've tried to read all of the thread, but it's too gorram long - I may have missed a post or two. Anyway, my personal views on this topic aside, here's a quote that should not be ignored:

"... When you have an ensemble, you think about what people are going to take away with them at the end of the movie, and you don't think about the second movie until you've made the first one. And that's just a very strict rule with me. By the way, there's a strong possibility that everybody would return for a sequel. How is that possible? Not my usual way - there are no amulets to be had for love or money. But there's every chance you could see these characters again. ..." (Joss Whedon in: Serenity - the Official Visual Companion, p. 36)


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Monday, May 1, 2006 2:05 AM

AUSSAY


My theory on why Wash is alive

Wash appeared to die

but look at the word 'Wash'

An anagram of 'Wash' is 'Shaw'

'Shaw' as in 'George Bernard Shaw' the Irish Playwright.

G.B. Shaws plays connection :
G.B Shaws' play 'Arms and the Man' is set during the 1885 Serbo-Bulgarian War. A young woman who is engaged to a war hero she idolises (Zoes dedication to Mal???)Then a Serbian soldier comes to her room and begs her to hide him. She doesnot think much of him, espcially because he carries chocolate not guns or ammo. She thinks him a acoward (Zoes first impression of Wash ??)
Throughout the play she realised that he soldier is noble and renounces her engagement and now loves the soldier. (Zoe and Wash???)

And the big connection -
Another of G.B Shaws plays - 'The Devil's Disciple' tells the tale of an American hero during the Revolutionary War. In the end the hero is about to be hanged but is saved at the last minute. Also the Americans rejoice and the British leave knowing they cannot win.
(Wash about to die but doenst somehow and the Alliance go away at the end .... ?)

Coincidence? You decide ....

Sorry I was bored

One day.
One mission.
One army of Browncoats.
On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave.
http://serenityjune23rd.com/

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Sunday, May 7, 2006 4:57 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


allrighty then

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

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Sunday, May 7, 2006 5:51 PM

BROWNCOAT2006


Coupla things I would like to point out... yes the Revers in Serenity (the pilot, not the movie) had an EMP weapon... well, not really a weapon so much as an Electro Magnetic Grapple... NOT an EMP gun... second, Book is definatly dead... third, Revers WOULD NOT have a pretty silver n' blue ship, it wouldda been all scared, pitted and blackend jagged metal with loverly crimson red BLOOD all over it, if not a few dozen thin hood ornament type dudes on it... and the ship wouldda also been venting black smoke for it's not operating with core contanment, and FINAL... your theory kicks ASS!!! welcome to the crew bud... *hands over a brow duster*

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Sunday, May 7, 2006 6:02 PM

SPRUNKNER


Did anyone mention that Joss brought back Colossus from a very permanent death in Astonishing X-Men? Sure, it's a Marvel Comic, but he's obviously not above it.

(Sorry, didn't have time to read all the posts)

The only way I could see this working emotionally would be if Wash's resurrection actually made things worse for the crew. Like he sold out Simon and River in exchange for his continued life. There is no way anyone would buy it if it wasn't important to the story.

I want to believe...

sprunking!

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