GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Wash is 100% alive and mostly well.

POSTED BY: PASTORBADGER
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 23:57
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Sunday, May 7, 2006 9:04 PM

MIKEC


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat2006:
Coupla things I would like to point out... yes the Revers in Serenity (the pilot, not the movie) had an EMP weapon... well, not really a weapon so much as an Electro Magnetic Grapple... NOT an EMP gun... second, Book is definatly dead... third, Revers WOULD NOT have a pretty silver n' blue ship, it wouldda been all scared, pitted and blackend jagged metal with loverly crimson red BLOOD all over it, if not a few dozen thin hood ornament type dudes on it... and the ship wouldda also been venting black smoke for it's not operating with core contanment, and FINAL... your theory kicks ASS!!! welcome to the crew bud... *hands over a brow duster*



you read the movie script?

"A moment after serenity blows through frame , so does a reaver ship.

It fires an electronic pulse at serenity and sparks fly"

and....

"WASH
I am a leaf on the wind. watch -

A massive harpoon CRASHES through the windshield and impales him to his chair. It's as thick around as a telephone pole.

Wash has time to open his mouth in surprise before he is dead."

think that clears it up nicely

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Monday, May 8, 2006 4:10 AM

PASTORBADGER


Yeah, and if you read every other script for every other incident someone in a serial has died (see long list above by actually reading thread), they'll all say "He's dead, Jim", too. I'm certain the script for "Wrath of Kahn" DIDN'T say, "The genetic material of Spock is ejected in a torpedo casing to be reconstituted by the lingering Genesis effect". Means nothing.

We've already stipulated to the telephone pole : (Cough. Ahem.) Steering Column!

"Wash has time to open his mouth in surprise before he is dead." First : remember the dead guy in the mail?

Second, this is so cleverly phrased that the ambiguity makes me even more certain that Wash will rise again. After all, we all had time to open our mouths before we were dead. My script says "Pastor Badger has time to do what he needs before he is dead." (Yes this is stretching the ambiguity, but Joss would have gone to extremes to leave this thread untied.)

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Monday, May 8, 2006 5:46 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Yeah, and if you read every other script for every other incident someone in a serial has died (see long list above by actually reading thread), they'll all say "He's dead, Jim", too. I'm certain the script for "Wrath of Kahn" DIDN'T say, "The genetic material of Spock is ejected in a torpedo casing to be reconstituted by the lingering Genesis effect". Means nothing.



Again, you're useing Star Trek as an example - a show with lots of stuff that Joss has said would never be in the verse - aliens, supernatural beings, and uh... people coming back from the dead. Apples and oranges. A point I've made before... but if you're gonna keep saying steering coulmn over and over....

Quote:

Second, this is so cleverly phrased that the ambiguity makes me even more certain that Wash will rise again. After all, we all had time to open our mouths before we were dead. My script says "Pastor Badger has time to do what he needs before he is dead." (Yes this is stretching the ambiguity, but Joss would have gone to extremes to leave this thread untied.)



You've got to be kidding. Talk about reaching. He died right there on the page. It doesn't say he opened his mouth before he died twenty years later. He breathed his last.


Of course, nothing anyone says will convince you at this point. I doubt it would make an impact if Joss showed up one your doorstop himself and said "He's dead. Deal with it." Willfull self-deception at it's finest.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, May 8, 2006 6:02 AM

PASTORBADGER


Nope, not comparing Star Trek to Firefly. Just comparing two movie scripts. Not comparing apples and oranges, just makeing a general observation about fruit. ;)

After all, how many times has a particular author killed a character, only to have another ressurect him? Joss's original intent isn't even relavent. The script could say "Wash is so dead, he can't even come back in flashback". Wouldn't matter.

It's not denial. Schrödinger's Wash.

ROFL!

(Nobody ever gets my best stuff.)

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Monday, May 8, 2006 6:19 AM

POEANDFAITH


I've read a bunch, and I myself would love to have Wash alive again. Watchin' the series with my own friends and family, you can't help but be a little hurt when Wash and Book kick the bucket...

But it's over. Wash is dead, and he ain't coming back. As much as I'd like to scan the movie for any and all errors that might show he's alive, as much as I'd like to research the chances someone could survive an injury like that, I think the movie points it out well enough.

Mal stays with Book until he dies. Can't stress that part enough. That's who Mal is, he ain't gunna walk out on someone he cares about during their dying breaths.

He tells Shepard he was a part of the crew, not to talk, to hold on...but even Simon's medical experience don't mean anything if it doesn't get there in time.

So when Wash gets pinned into the cockpit by a harpoon shot hard and fast enough to shatter airproof heat resistant space shuttle window, And Mal and Zoe flee...they know he is dead. Two well experienced, very loyal to this man people LEAVE HIM. If Wash was alive, or had any chance of surviving, do you really think they would have done that?

And when Kaylee shouts "Wash? Where's Wash!?", I recall Zoe saying in a cold hidin' back the feelings voice "He ain't coming." Not "Well, we think he's dead, but we didn't wanna get killed ourselves checking."

The third thing was the flight itself. No ordinary pilot could have wormed their way between a large scale air battle like that. Everything was resting on Wash, and he brought them to their destination. As a pilot, his mission was complete. Wash died a hero.

As Joss has said, it's about normal, run of the mill people trying to get by. They aren't invincible, they aren't imbued with super-powers or mystic elements. They're just folk, like you and me. Wash was shot through the chest with a deadly harpoon. It's his end.


... ... ...*weeps a little and decides to wear a hawaiian shirt today*

Dear Diary... Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 7:04 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by PoeandFaith:
I've read a bunch, and I myself would love to have Wash alive again. Watchin' the series with my own friends and family, you can't help but be a little hurt when Wash and Book kick the bucket...

But it's over. Wash is dead, and he ain't coming back. As much as I'd like to scan the movie for any and all errors that might show he's alive, as much as I'd like to research the chances someone could survive an injury like that, I think the movie points it out well enough.

Mal stays with Book until he dies. Can't stress that part enough. That's who Mal is, he ain't gunna walk out on someone he cares about during their dying breaths.

He tells Shepard he was a part of the crew, not to talk, to hold on...but even Simon's medical experience don't mean anything if it doesn't get there in time.

So when Wash gets pinned into the cockpit by a harpoon shot hard and fast enough to shatter airproof heat resistant space shuttle window, And Mal and Zoe flee...they know he is dead. Two well experienced, very loyal to this man people LEAVE HIM. If Wash was alive, or had any chance of surviving, do you really think they would have done that?

And when Kaylee shouts "Wash? Where's Wash!?", I recall Zoe saying in a cold hidin' back the feelings voice "He ain't coming." Not "Well, we think he's dead, but we didn't wanna get killed ourselves checking."

The third thing was the flight itself. No ordinary pilot could have wormed their way between a large scale air battle like that. Everything was resting on Wash, and he brought them to their destination. As a pilot, his mission was complete. Wash died a hero.

As Joss has said, it's about normal, run of the mill people trying to get by. They aren't invincible, they aren't imbued with super-powers or mystic elements. They're just folk, like you and me. Wash was shot through the chest with a deadly harpoon. It's his end.


... ... ...*weeps a little and decides to wear a hawaiian shirt today*

Dear Diary... Today, we were kidnapped by hill folk never to be seen again. It was the best day ever.



As I posited in the first post, it's the alliance finds Wash's recently perforated body. If all Simon has is his skill and wits, there's only so much he can do. That's why he took River to Aeriel. Sometimes, you just gotta have the gadgets.

Second, Zoe's belief that his injuries were unsurvivable aren't relavent either. Wouldn't be the first time she'd made that mistake either ("The Message"). She left because Mal ordered her to. (The show covered that ground, too.) Mal ordered her to, because it was the right thing to do tactically.

It's easily possible. We've proven that, time and again. It's emnently likely, considering EVERY other science fiction franchise has done it already. You must face your fear of the Holy MacGuffin in order to move on. End your denial and embrace the Holy MacGuffin.


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Monday, May 8, 2006 7:23 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat2006:
your theory kicks ASS!!! welcome to the crew bud... *hands over a brow duster*



Sincere thanks. (That's "thanks without wax" for the over-educated among you.)

Already have duster though. Rode fences for five years on my step-father's ranch. (To this day, I keep my 30-30 Winchester in a saddle holster. Even though the saddle is looong gone.)

Chasin' cows with horses by day and watchin' "Star Trek" by night in the late sixties. Any wonder I love Firefly? lol


By the way, I've got one complaint along that line. In "Shindig", Serenity takes on cattle. No way, no how is any cow setting foot on that open grating in Serenity's cargo hold. They just won't do it.

Does anyone know if they put plywood down on the set, or what? Any cowboys here can back me up on this?


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Monday, May 8, 2006 7:26 AM

STORYMARK


Okay, got it. Whatever happened in the movie (from Wash's mortal wound, to his death gurgle, and the fact that the Alliance was too busy fighting a massive battle to bother with performing miraculous first-aid on a guy they were essentially trying to kill anyway) - irrelevant.

The script - irrelevant.

Joss' stated intentions - irrelevant.

Joss' insistance that Wash is very, very dead - irrelevant.

Joss' promise that no-one comes back from the dead in the 'verse - irrelevant.

Alan's insistence that Wash is dead, and his admission that he thought it was best for the character - irrelevant.

The only thing that seems to be relevant is your insistance, contrary to all evidence, that Wash is "100% alive".

Gotcha.



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, May 8, 2006 9:22 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, got it. Whatever happened in the movie (from Wash's mortal wound, to his death gurgle, and the fact that the Alliance was too busy fighting a massive battle to bother with performing miraculous first-aid on a guy they were essentially trying to kill anyway) - irrelevant.

The script - irrelevant.

Joss' stated intentions - irrelevant.

Joss' insistance that Wash is very, very dead - irrelevant.

Joss' promise that no-one comes back from the dead in the 'verse - irrelevant.

Alan's insistence that Wash is dead, and his admission that he thought it was best for the character - irrelevant.

The only thing that seems to be relevant is your insistance, contrary to all evidence, that Wash is "100% alive".

Gotcha.



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



Given the irrefutable history of science fiction film-making? That's pretty much the picture.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 9:26 AM

MIKEC


pardon my language here but jesus christ! some people really cannot face the truth.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 10:31 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by mikeC:
pardon my language here but jesus christ! some people really cannot face the truth.



Yes, and we think you're one of them. ;) (Actually, you're worse : You refuse to face a possibility.)

And breaking the third commandment isn't going to get you any brownie points with me, young man!

(Actually it's not. Swearing with the name of the lord isn't taking his name in vain. It's just coarse and disrespectful. Kaylee wouldn't approve.)


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Monday, May 8, 2006 10:58 AM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA


PastorB, you rock. You allow for possibilities. Others, especially he who listed all the people saying Wash is dead, show me proof. Please. Doubting Thomas moment, sure, but people's minds can change. If Joss chooses to bring back Wash, then Wash is back. I don't doubt that there are ways of surviving a spike like that. Whomever said that it would have pushed his internals out of the way, you're right. That's why we don't use flechette rifles. Also, Mal and Zoe ran as to get the message out, and not die. Mal stayed with Book as he wasn't being shot at meanwhile.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 11:13 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by BrowncoatSandinista:
PastorB, you rock. You allow for possibilities. Others, especially he who listed all the people saying Wash is dead, show me proof. Please. Doubting Thomas moment, sure, but people's minds can change. If Joss chooses to bring back Wash, then Wash is back. I don't doubt that there are ways of surviving a spike like that. Whomever said that it would have pushed his internals out of the way, you're right. That's why we don't use flechette rifles. Also, Mal and Zoe ran as to get the message out, and not die. Mal stayed with Book as he wasn't being shot at meanwhile.

If anyone gets nosy...Shoot em.
Shoot em sir?
Politely.



Thank you for the compliment. Hope is important. You can live without love for a little while. You can live without faith as long as your body lives. But you can't live without hope.

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Monday, May 8, 2006 2:52 PM

SAVEWASH

Now I am learning about scary.


Quote:

Originally posted by pastorbadger:
Schrödinger's Wash.

ROFL!

(Nobody ever gets my best stuff.)



Au contraire. This is very funny! What a great way to put it.

Btw, I never said Wash can't still be alive, I said he shouldn't still be alive. Big difference, at least IMO.

I just hope we'll all get a chance to see what Joss has in mind.



"We need to keep our heads so we can ... keep our heads."

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Monday, May 8, 2006 3:53 PM

BLAZESOLO


I WANNA SHIP OUT ON THAT MISSION !!!! Hmmm what ta pack, .44mag, .45 automag, 9mm, and 357mag !!! And plenty of extra ammo !!!! TAKE THAT YOU GORRAM, RUTTIN ALLIANCE !!!! Oh and don't forget grenades, plenty of grenades !!!!

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 6:48 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by BlazeSolo:
I WANNA SHIP OUT ON THAT MISSION !!!! Hmmm what ta pack, .44mag, .45 automag, 9mm, and 357mag !!! And plenty of extra ammo !!!! TAKE THAT YOU GORRAM, RUTTIN ALLIANCE !!!! Oh and don't forget grenades, plenty of grenades !!!!



And this is a response to which post? You have confused me. (No mean feat.)


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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 1:42 PM

BLAZESOLO


The Mission ta go rescue Wash from the nasty Alliance hospital!!!! Who knows what they're gonna do ta him!!!!!! They might make Niska look like a kindergarten teacher !!!!! I WANT WASH BACK !!!!

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Tuesday, May 9, 2006 1:51 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Quote:



Schrödinger's Wash.



ROFLMAO


that's great

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

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Tuesday, May 23, 2006 9:44 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


bump, 'cause I like this thread

http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

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Wednesday, July 5, 2006 6:52 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


another bump for ppl who just got here



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 10:33 AM

LISSA37


Well, I have to say, this was really interesting to read. Even if it does seem like a huge stretch, it was fun to imagine for even a few moments that Wash might've survived. Hmmm.

I wouldn't count this theory out as a possibility, but I'm not sure I can believe it's the truth.

No matter what, though -- whether you believe this, want to believe this, can't bring yourself to believe this no matter how much you want to, or just plain think it's nuts -- this was an incredibly well-thought-out theory and an enjoyable read. Brilliant work! You're very clever, Pastorbadger.

*****
"Define interesting." - Mal
"Oh God, oh God, we're all gonna die." - Wash

"I'm a leaf on the wind..." - Wash

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 6:14 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


I agree



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Thursday, July 6, 2006 8:36 PM

DQBABY76


thats an incredibly interesting theory. Joss Whedon broke my heart when he "killed" Wash. it would be amazing to see him again.

-------------------------------------------------
Shepard used to tell me...can't do something smart, do something right.
I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Friday, July 7, 2006 4:05 AM

MICJWELCH


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, got it. Whatever happened in the movie (from Wash's mortal wound, to his death gurgle, and the fact that the Alliance was too busy fighting a massive battle to bother with performing miraculous first-aid on a guy they were essentially trying to kill anyway) - irrelevant.

The script - irrelevant.

Joss' stated intentions - irrelevant.

Joss' insistance that Wash is very, very dead - irrelevant.

Joss' promise that no-one comes back from the dead in the 'verse - irrelevant.

Alan's insistence that Wash is dead, and his admission that he thought it was best for the character - irrelevant.

The only thing that seems to be relevant is your insistance, contrary to all evidence, that Wash is "100% alive".

Gotcha.



It is irrelevant. Joss Whedon changed his theory about the Reavers to better suit a feature film. If he wants to change what he wrote before from "dies" to "was seriously injured," well, then that's up to him. And if you've ever seen Buffy or any of Joss Whedon's other work, you know he feels he can change his mind all he wants.

Another thought - This thread won't die! Those of us shouting "STEERING COLUMN" aren't the ones who won't let it die either. We're not in denial. It's the ones denying that it's possible who won't let this argument rest.

"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Friday, July 7, 2006 5:10 AM

CITIZEN


My theory as too why Wash is dead:
He had a big stake through his chest.

He had a BIG stake through his chest.

He had a REALLY BIG STAKE THROUGH HIS CHEST!

This is FireFly, not star trek. They didn't bury him on a moon created by some kind of "Genesis Device" that will miraculously revive his fetted corpse minus his mind, which was passed on to Serenity through his "Vulcanised Rubber" mind meld.

They won't rescue him, planet exploding around their ears in Serenity 2: The Search for Wash, and they won't take him to mount cyanide where an ancient Gosling ritual won't be used too reunite his body with his mind that has been hilariously melded with the ship, not leading to an earlier scene where Serenity tells Mal if he ever looks at Zoe like that again the ships going to vent all the oxygen into space.

He's dead, dead as a can of spam, and they buried him (there's a clue, don't know about anyone else but around these parts we tend to bury DEAD people, you know, people who are dead, not ones that are just sleeping of a minor stake through the heart flesh wound), take solice in the fact that it's party time for all the little worms, because unless they're magic worms he's not coming back.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, July 7, 2006 6:11 AM

NANITE1018


Do i want Wash to be alive, of course i do. We all do i think. But in all likelyhood he is in fact very dead, and will stay dead.

So if Wash really is dead, what happens now? Well i read some posts about how Zoe might become like a mothery figure to the crew. I think, unfortunately, that might already have been taken by Inara, as she is described as a kind of maternal figure for the ship. But it's possible that Zoe might become a motherish figure. If not, you could still have her be a stone-cold killer as well as a grieving wife, maybe. Hey, how about her start to treat River as kind of her kid? idk, that doesn't seem like it could work, but maybe they could develop some sort of relationship. And Inara could definitely sort of fill in as the conscience of the ship, which used to be Book's job. And she could expand slightly her role as a maternal figure.

And then of course you have Wash's place to fill in. Who could that be? Well, River could definitely be the new pilot because as Mal said "clearly, there's some ... aptitude." Give her a month and she'll be flying just as good as Wash did. And maybe she could inject some humor, not much, but some. I mean she was kind of funny in the series, partly because of her uber-logical nature ("day is a vestigial mode of time measurement based on solar cycles. it's not applicable. ........ i didn't get you anything.") So i could see her being kind of funny. Idk, she definitely wouldn't be a perfect Wash, but she'd be okay. And in space you don't need a pilot that often, just take-offs, landings, and some mid-course corrections and things. So most of the time on a planet, and possible on jobs, if her Reader skills were needed, she could be away from the bridge. And a lot of the time in space too. So she could still be big character, and still have her relationship with Simon, which would change a lot due to her no longer being super-crazy. Just mildly disturbed.

Simon and Kaylee might become sort of like Zoe and Wash. I mean, Simon is pretty darn funny and he will constantly screw up in his relationship with Kaylee. Over and over and over again. And she'll forgive him over and over and over again. So that would inject some humor into it as well, and there would be the whole relationship thing between them which would allow something of romance to the show that Zoe and Wash added in a limited way.

So Wash isn't absolutely necessary, and Book is not absolutely necessary either. The surviving character's could fill in most of their duties, simply out of their natural personalities i think.

Book: What are we up to, sweetheart?
River: Fixing your Bible.
Book: I, um… What?
[Pan over to River, who works on a book with pens, brushes, and loose pages.]
River: Bible's broken. Contradictions, false logistics… doesn't make sense.
Book: No, no. You - you can't...
River: So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. Eleven inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one. Noah's ark is a problem.
Book: Really?
River: We'll have to call it "early quantum state phenomenon". Only way to fit 5,000 species of mammals on the same boat.
. . .
Book: River, you don't… fix the Bible.
River: It's broken. It doesn't make sense.
Book: It's not about… making sense. It's about believing in something. And letting that belief be real enough to change your life. It's about faith. You don't fix faith, River. It fixes you.

Personally, i'm on River's side of that one.

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Friday, July 7, 2006 9:14 AM

THECRAZYIVAN


its a nice story...and has a lot in common with the fellow who got his friggin eye shot out by Mal and left for dead in "Serenty" part 2 (the tv episode...lol). In the comic book, hope not to ruin this, but hes alive! Granted with a robotic eye n all that...but nevertheless, he was probably sitting there forever bleeding out of his eye and he was alive and kickin...until he had a run i nwith a certain browncoat again.

Even so...kind of an unlikely story...well put tho

~~~~~~~~~~
"There is a sense that this is still not over. It's hard to put a finger on what's so special about this project and about this group of people, but it's just one of those things you have to trust in, and relish. I am very, very proud."
---Jewel Staite on "Firefly" and "Serenity" in "Finding Serenity" (essay collection by Jane Espenson)

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Friday, July 7, 2006 10:44 AM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
My theory as too why Wash is dead:
He had a big stake through his chest.

He had a BIG stake through his chest.

He had a REALLY BIG STAKE THROUGH HIS CHEST!

This is FireFly, not star trek. They didn't bury him on a moon created by some kind of "Genesis Device" that will miraculously revive his fetted corpse minus his mind, which was passed on to Serenity through his "Vulcanised Rubber" mind meld.

They won't rescue him, planet exploding around their ears in Serenity 2: The Search for Wash, and they won't take him to mount cyanide where an ancient Gosling ritual won't be used too reunite his body with his mind that has been hilariously melded with the ship, not leading to an earlier scene where Serenity tells Mal if he ever looks at Zoe like that again the ships going to vent all the oxygen into space.

He's dead, dead as a can of spam, and they buried him (there's a clue, don't know about anyone else but around these parts we tend to bury DEAD people, you know, people who are dead, not ones that are just sleeping of a minor stake through the heart flesh wound), take solice in the fact that it's party time for all the little worms, because unless they're magic worms he's not coming back.



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You seem to be under the impression that a really big steak through the heart will kill you. It doesn't always do so today, it surely doesn't in Wash's time, and the point of "STEERING COLUMN!" is that it didn't even do so in the 1960's on Earth That Was.

Please read the whole thread before you post. And if "it's too long to read all of it", well then, since you just aren't all that invested in your own opinion to make it worth the time, then why should anyone else here waste the time reading yours?


I had no idea what I was setting upon the world when I started this post. It is truly the thread that wouldn't die.

Hey, if the thread won't die, how can Wash? "He's not really dead as long as we remember him." As a fictional character, I submit doubly so. ;)

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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:33 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by pastorbadger:
You seem to be under the impression that a really big steak through the heart will kill you. It doesn't always do so today, it surely doesn't in Wash's time, and the point of "STEERING COLUMN!" is that it didn't even do so in the 1960's on Earth That Was.

Yeah and someone survived a pole through the brain once but 99% people die, and if you see someone get a pole through the skull in a film and they slump down looking pretty much dead and everyone leaves them as dead we can pretty much take it as writ that they are dead, no matter how much it'll make you cry.
Quote:

Please read the whole thread before you post. And if "it's too long to read all of it", well then, since you just aren't all that invested in your own opinion to make it worth the time, then why should anyone else here waste the time reading yours?
Please check your facts and actually watch Serenity before you post. The EMP plainly came from a Reaver ship, and since you are obviously not all that invested in your own opinion or you poorly reasoned 'theory' why should anyone else be?

So what's your cunning and well thought out plan to resurrect Book, no wait let me guess, Book wasn't really shot, the projectile was stopped by a can of tomato soup, which is why it looks like he was bleeding, and the reason everyone thought he was dead was because he had passed out after eating a dodgy burrito.

After all we all hate real life consequences being portrayed in shows, that's why we're not on a FireFly fan site not discussing Firefly and we are on a Star Trek website discussing how a neutron surge through the bus b buffer brought Scotty back to life through a freak convergence of the space-time continuum.



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Friday, July 7, 2006 4:12 PM

PASTORBADGER


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Yeah and someone survived a pole through the brain once but 99% people die, and if you see someone get a pole through the skull in a film and they slump down looking pretty much dead and everyone leaves them as dead we can pretty much take it as writ that they are dead, no matter how much it'll make you cry.

Please check your facts and actually watch Serenity before you post. The EMP plainly came from a Reaver ship, and since you are obviously not all that invested in your own opinion or you poorly reasoned 'theory' why should anyone else be?

So what's your cunning and well thought out plan to resurrect Book, no wait let me guess, Book wasn't really shot, the projectile was stopped by a can of tomato soup, which is why it looks like he was bleeding, and the reason everyone thought he was dead was because he had passed out after eating a dodgy burrito.

After all we all hate real life consequences being portrayed in shows, that's why we're not on a FireFly fan site not discussing Firefly and we are on a Star Trek website discussing how a neutron surge through the bus b buffer brought Scotty back to life through a freak convergence of the space-time continuum.



Well! Aren't our panties just all in a bundle?

You made yourself look a little foolish : the "EMP came from a reaver ship/no it didn't/yes it did" argument has been dealt with ad nausium. Again, read the thread and everyone else's opinion before you steal some more considerate soul's time.

Resurrect Book? As a man of the cloth myself, I'm just as happy to see his character go. How would you feel if they had, say, a "fry cook with an evil past" character? Wouldn't you take it personally?

Finally, as for the pole through the head foolishness, that topic has also been well covered by witty and well-meaning folks who took the time to read. I'll spoon it to you : No one says it's likely in the real world. It's just well within the realm of possibility. It gives hope to those in need of it.

(Here's where you splutter an adolescent rant about how important your opinion is and what a yob I am. Take the bait. C'mon. Look! I'm crossing your bridge...)

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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:18 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Well! Aren't our panties just all in a bundle?
Not really I just replied to you in the same manner to which you spoke to me, which I guess means you must of thrown your toys outta the pram huh .
Quote:

You made yourself look a little foolish : the "EMP came from a reaver ship/no it didn't/yes it did" argument has been dealt with ad nausium. Again, read the thread and everyone else's opinion before you steal some more considerate soul's time.
I know, I read it, but it's still there in your original post for all to see, so when you accuse me of "not taking time" in my opinion you're attacking me for doing what you did, which would make you a hypocrite, wouldn't it?
Quote:

Resurrect Book? As a man of the cloth myself, I'm just as happy to see his character go. How would you feel if they had, say, a "fry cook with an evil past" character? Wouldn't you take it personally?
You're a man of the cloth? What cheese cloth? Since I'm not a fry cook I don't think I could take it personally.
Quote:

Finally, as for the pole through the head foolishness, that topic has also been well covered by witty and well-meaning folks who took the time to read. I'll spoon it to you : No one says it's likely in the real world. It's just well within the realm of possibility. It gives hope to those in need of it.
So you're theory is very improbable and requires faith against reality to believe it? I think that was my point thanks for confirming that.
Quote:

(Here's where you splutter an adolescent rant about how important your opinion is and what a yob I am. Take the bait. C'mon. Look! I'm crossing your bridge...)
In the last two posts you've accused me of being a troll (which is funny since this is the only thread you've posted on and you seem to have a vested interest in offending people and causing arguments...) and said I have no right to voice my opinion, seemingly because it's different to yours (I notice how you haven't posted anything here against those who support your view, whether they've read the entire thread or not).

Not going to say your a yob or anything else, merely point out that attacking people for apparently displaying the self same behaviour that you have throughout is hypocritical...



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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:29 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


this is turmimg into a real world events thread



I expected more than petty bickering



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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:37 PM

CITIZEN


Tell PastorTroller, I posted an opinion PT personally attacked me for no reason other than no one's allowed to have a opinion not officially endorsed by him/her.



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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:39 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


why do you feel that way?



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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:43 PM

CITIZEN


Maybe because PT immediatly told me I have no right to an opinion followed by accusing me of being a troll.



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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:53 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


where, exactly did he do that?



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Friday, July 7, 2006 11:58 PM

CITIZEN


since you just aren't all that invested in your own opinion to make it worth the time, then why should anyone else here waste the time reading yours?
Unilaterally deciding my opinion is not 'good enough' for the thread.
Look! I'm crossing your bridge...Implying I'm a troll.

I'm just speaking too PB in the way (s)he spoke to me, (s)he could have quite simply and easilly not replied or chosen to discuss it rather than telling me my opinion is worthless.

PB chose to start bickering, and that's what PB got.



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Saturday, July 8, 2006 12:03 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


by bringing up the reaver/alliance ship argument you gave PastorB every reason to believe that you hadn't read the whole thread,

as to the second one: that is very obscure and only someone who was looking for an insult would actually see one



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Saturday, July 8, 2006 12:15 AM

CITIZEN


I brought up the Reaver/Alliance thing after the accusation, and the troll implication is fairly blatent.

Whether or not I read the entire thread is completely irrelivent, the attack was way over the top and if PastorBadger really thought that I should read the entire thread because I was going over old ground then there's better ways of doing it than saying my opinion is worthless.

Especially since my post was largely tongue in cheek and PB's was largely lets attack that guy for having the wrong opinion.



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Saturday, July 8, 2006 12:23 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


he wasn't saying it was worthless, he was saying that if you hadn't read the whole thing that you didn't see your own opinion as having enough worth to invest the time needed to read the thread and that if you didn't value your opinion that much that noone else would either



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

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Saturday, July 8, 2006 12:28 AM

CITIZEN


i.e. my opinion is not worth the time to read it, i.e. it is worthless.

You obviously agree with PB's theory, otherwise you wouldn't judge him with such lattitude and me with none whatsoever. If you've decided that I must be the one in the wrong because you prefer his opinion fine, but it takes two to argue and by his own admission PB has been baiting me, ergo he wanted an argument, and that's what he got.

Not particularly fantastic behaviour for "a man of the cloth".



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Saturday, July 8, 2006 12:32 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


if you don't value your own opinion enough to read the whole thread then you find it worthless. look at it from that point of view



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-try it out, I dare you

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Saturday, July 8, 2006 12:37 AM

CITIZEN


Except of course that wasn't the statement, the statement was equivelent too "You HAVENT read the entire thread" and "NOT reading the entire thread makes your opinion worthless".

There's no IF there at all as you suggest, he was saying specifically that my opinion is worthless, and this is also backed up by later statements.

I do value my own opinion enough to read the thread, which I did but I simply don't have the time to read every single post, I read as many as my time will allow. At the moment I have to complete an update on a website much as I did last night before I go away for a week in about three hours time.

The continuing assertion that by not reading every post I have no right to a voice simply sounds like "Since I have a life outside this website, I have no right to post on it".

And by his own admission PB wanted an argument, and chose to pick it with me, how do you account for that?



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Saturday, July 8, 2006 6:11 AM

EXPERIMENT62


now, wash is my fav charechter ever! and should be kept alive at all costs, kill off mal, inara, jayne, just dont kill off wash, he WILL be back, joss wont let such a popular charecter be kiled off, if its a compotision between book coming back and wash coming back, it'll unfortunatly be book,(DAMN YOU! MYSTERIOUS PREACHER!)
but, and its a big butt, wash will be back eventually, maybe not in serenity 2, but definatly in firefly series 2.

thank you, that is all.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RAGLESCHFLUGLE!!

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Saturday, July 8, 2006 7:52 AM

PHOENIXSHIP


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:


cut to Serenity: reaver takes a bite out of Wash, pinned to the pilot seat, looks up and replies " Tastes like chicken "....drum roll




No...

He tastes FUNNY! Get it?

"Why're you arguin' what's already been decided?"
Mal to Jayne, "Jaynestown"

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Saturday, July 8, 2006 10:01 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


I'm not going to bother responding to citizen because he won't see anything from anyone else's point of view


I would like to say that Wash WILL be back, but not being Joss, I can't.
I can however say that I would love to see Wash return



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Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:20 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown:
I'm not going to bother responding to citizen because he won't see anything from anyone else's point of view

Guywhowantsafireflyofhisown preaching to others about not seeing it from other peoples point of view.

FUNNY!

The child who doesn't even know the difference between a joke and a fight, as proven numerous times in other threads, preaching.

You obviously can't see it from my point of view, nor do you want to because you believe that no ones point of view besides yours and the trolls you support is worthy of existence, that would make you far worse than me.



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Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:47 PM

SAVEWASH

Now I am learning about scary.


Hey, at least (s)he didn't ignore you completely.

Quote:

Btw, I never said Wash can't still be alive, I said he shouldn't still be alive. Big difference, at least IMO.

There was more to it, but I didn't hear a word about this aspect of it.


Or maybe that's a good thing.


* steals back into the shadows to be ignored again, happily *





"We need to keep our heads so we can ... keep our heads."

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Saturday, July 15, 2006 5:57 PM

BROWNCOATSANDINISTA


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
My theory as too why Wash is dead:
He had a big stake through his chest.

He had a BIG stake through his chest.

He had a REALLY BIG STAKE THROUGH HIS CHEST!



A stake through the chest isn't a sure fire death sentance. Wash isn't a Vampire. Remember this is Firefly, not Buffy/Angel.

"I'm not going to say Serenity is the greatest SciFi movie ever; oh wait yes I am." - Orson Scott Card

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Saturday, July 15, 2006 6:06 PM

ORMAYBEMIDGETS


Just so everyone knows, I did read the whole thread. Now that that's covered.

Tracey, the ex-soldier from the episode The Message has come up a few times. About how he was dead, and shipped in the mail, and then wasn't dead anymore. I'd just like to point out that Tracey wasn't pole-through-the-chest dead. He was faking dead, just like River and Simon did in Ariel. It's different. Tracey was perfectly healthy and then he, or those in charge of him, told him to inject something that would "suspend suspend cerebral, cardiac, and pulmonary activity in order to induce a proto-comatose state." Look at Simon in Ariel. When he gave River the shot he was calm. He knew it would work out alright, because even if this isn't something that is commonly done, it is something that's done. So it's not really right to compare Tracey's situation to Wash's in any way.

Next, the Spike reference. From what I've read, on other boards and such, a lot of people were angry when Spike was magically resurrected. I loved Spike's involvement in Angel Season 5. But still, I think that Spike coming back cheapened his death. Knowing that he'll come back, watching the sacrifice in Chosen means a lot less (to me). I'm not trying to start anything about the Spike issue. I'm just saying, that isn't really a wonderful example to site about a back-from-the-dead that everyone loved.

It's also been stated many times that Serenity will bring Wash back because that's what sci fi does. I think that's a pretty bad point. I don't think that the writers on this show would do something just because it's expected, and I'd be more than a little disappointed if they did.

For what it's worth: I do think that Wash is dead. And if he isn't, and he's brought back in Serenity 2 (in a well written way), then I'll probably love his involvement in that movie. But it won't be the same to watch that scene in Serenity, it will be cheapened.

Wash was killed for a reason, as was Book. And the reason was that there's no reason. Life is hard and war is hell and there are casualities. Firefly wasn't ever about everything going perfectly. It wasn't about an ideal future. It was about normal people living a normal life.

-
DB: Doesn't exactly fit the thug in the profile alley. Wait, what?

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