GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

No more Firefly/Serenity

POSTED BY: ELLIS
UPDATED: Saturday, April 15, 2006 18:37
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6408
PAGE 1 of 1

Friday, April 14, 2006 2:08 PM

ELLIS


* SPOILER WARNING *

If you haven’t seen the movie Serenity, stop reading this post. It’ll just ruin parts of the movie for you. So, please, go read some other post. Thank you.

Are they gone? Ok..

Apologies for: 1) the length of the post; 2) if something similar has been posted before.

I finished watching the series and many people were right: I absolutely love it. I figured I’d watch Serenity again because some things would have more significance, more impact, and I would understand some of the things going on better than I did before. It was like watching a whole new movie. After watching it, though, something occurred to me: it’s the end.

See, almost everyone here keeps talking about bringing back Firefly to TV or the possibility of a sequel; I say: leave it where it is. True, it’s sad that there aren’t more episodes, but really, what could Joss do to continue it?

The death of Mr. Universe is inconsequential since he was a character unique to the movie (as far as I can tell; I never heard him mentioned in the series). The death of Book and Wash, however, would make continuing the series pointless. In Firefly, it’s about all of them and how they interact with each other; how they balance each other out. Having those two gone means that anything that comes after it would be hollow.

River’s fine now (as much as she can be, anyway), Mal’s got his belief back, Kaylee and Simon are together (finally!). Basically, many of the story lines are tied up in Serenity. Or, to put it better, Serenity is the series condensed to 2 hours.

The only way that Firefly could continue as a series is if we pretend that the movie took place in a parallel dimension. I’m serious. Stop laughing.

It would be great if Firefly could carry on where it left off if we said, “Okay, Serenity hasn’t happened and isn’t going to happen.” That story line could come up, of course, but I hope that things would turn out differently. But as it stands right now, it can’t go on.

Just my opinion.

For a thread on a way to continue the series:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=19813


"Ten percent of nothin' is, let me do the math here: nothin' and then nothin', carry the nothin'..." - Jayne

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 2:35 PM

ZZETTA13


Ellis I'm shocked!!

Am I going to have to get Captain Mal over here to tell you again "HOLD THE LINE"

Give up Serenity and Firefly NEVER!!

Wash, Book and Mr. Universe dead? Thats a whole nother thread and has been beat to death. Check out the archives and you'll find it.

Anyway writters can work their magic and do what needs to be done with any show.

If I have it right the first 10 minutes of Serenity happened before the Tams hooked up with Mal and crew in the tv Serenity pilot. It shows the escape of the Tams from the medical unit where River was being held for weapons research. The rest of the movie comes after they have already been on board a while.Very well written by a talented team who could cook up 20 BDMs if they wanted to.

So in closing I'll say "Just believe in whatever...just believe." Book

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 2:42 PM

JAYDUCK


I disagree. Serenity was just one story.

I also don't think River is "cured" by any means. Just starting to understand herself a little better.

There are plenty stories to be told after Serenity, if they want to tell them.

There is also 6 months between Objects in Space and Serenity that could pick up right where Firefly left off.


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:32 PM

WHISPER


The way i see their deaths is... "when one door (or two) closes another one opens."

Joss is famous for killing off characters only to bring in more interesting characters and storylines.

Spoiler for Angel:

Select to view spoiler:


For instance in season 5 of Angel, Winafred Burkle, a much loved character is killed off after 3 years of being on the show, is replaced by one of the coolest characters to ever grace the show, Illyria (played by the same actress). From season one- Angel's link to the PTB (Powers that Be) Doyle is killed and is replaced by Wesley, who continues on to have the greatest character arc.



I have come to expect from Joss that when a main character dies, that means things are just about to get interesting and I personally can't wait to see what they come up with.

Want Firefly/ Serenity/ BtVS/ Angel desktop wallpapers? Take a look at the ones I've created at:
http://www.whispergraphics.net
Now hosting the Firefly Extended Gagreel
I have added a forum to my site and now I need some members!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:33 PM

KRIGAN


Disagree, They were expendable. Great Characters but expendable. IMO Mal and River are the only two that are not expendable & book was the most expendable. If the series had not been canceled I bet Joss would have wacked them both eventually. Book probably would have died in a long story ark where they discovered he was a former alliance agent or operative. Characters die and new ones take their place in a whedon show, Saffron probably would have joined the crew eventually.

"Yeah but she's our witch so cut her the hell down"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:35 PM

NUCLEARDAY


Yeah, I see your point, and this has come up a couple times in the short time I've had the privilege of being here.

That said: NO!

There's still plenty left to explore here, in just about any type of format, I think. Series would be the biggest win, but a movie sequel would also be shiny-tacular as well. Here's why:

The BDM may have covered what was supposed to be the first story arc of the series, sure. But that's one arc. I have no reason to believe that wether or not it was actually going to happen, Joss was prepared with enough story to drive the series for a good long while. (Buffy lasted, what, 7 seasons or so?) There's likely plots we haven't even got a hint of yet. Surely Joss was setting things up in the series for us to find out about River's stuff. But if the series had gone on, there would definately have been more to tell, I think.

________________________________________________
You can take my hope when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:41 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by Ellis:

It would be great if Firefly could carry on where it left off if we said, “Okay, Serenity hasn’t happened and isn’t going to happen.” That story line could come up, of course, but I hope that things would turn out differently. But as it stands right now, it can’t go on.

Just my opinion.




And my opinion as well.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:44 PM

AUSSAY


A new series would mean new characters and they could have great storylines that would add to the series.

We could have another Book type of character with some sort of past life with the Alliance, someone who knows the Tams somehow, an undercover Alliance agent who is trying to get River, lots of interesting opportunites

The Verse is to good a platform for some great sci fi to just let die

"Shake your head boy, your eyes are stuck"

www.fireflyfans.net
http://www.browncoatsriseagain.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 3:59 PM

MDIRK


River: "The storm is getting worse."

Mal: "We'll get through it soon enough."

what do you think joss meant with this, the last, line of the BDM?

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 9:22 PM

BROTHERJULIAN


While I do think that a comback for Firfly/Serenity would be problematic, I do not see the deaths of Wash and Shepherd Bood as a barrier.

Think of the possible plot lines involved with using say, the alliance operative. He strikes me as what Book may have been before getting his call to the ministry, lots of stuff there. And think of the fun it would be to integrate him into the crew.

I think River is better, not cured. Ever hear of the word relapse? Is Miranda the only secret floating around in her noggin? And remember the Alliance may have use for a psichic that isn't so crazy.

Mal and Inara still have issues to resolve. Like is she still going to be turning tricks? Would Mal be cool with that?

The Doc is still a boob. His new relationship with Kaylee could take the place of the strained Zoe/Wash marriage.



Brother Julian, Walking the World for a While.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, April 14, 2006 10:13 PM

MUDDERSMILK


I just think its so sad that we are stuck talking about what could be instead of talking about what is. We would just be ending season four right now. Why do so many awful shows get so much play, and a show like this gets half a season? I think that if somehow Firefly in some sort of incarnation flew again, it would be advanced in time again, to sort of "reset" a new ground of characters, with their own interactions, etc. And this could be done easily. I don't think Joss Whedon wrote Serenity as a farewell. I believe he fully intended the movie, if it had done well, to serve as a springboard for a future series, or at least a few movies. But it didn't happen. And that is just so frustrating and sad.

"May have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 2:11 AM

WHISPER


Give it time! We're only a few months out and Joss has not said that it's over yet. When he says it, then i'll lose all hope, until then... "i'm holding til Mal get's back."

Think about it... it was what like two years after the end of the series that there was rumors of a movie being made? This is just another lull.

Want Firefly/ Serenity/ BtVS/ Angel desktop wallpapers? Take a look at the ones I've created at:
http://www.whispergraphics.net
Now hosting the Firefly Extended Gagreel
I have added a forum to my site and now I need some members!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 3:44 AM

CATHERA


Quote:

Originally posted by Whisper:
Give it time! We're only a few months out and Joss has not said that it's over yet. When he says it, then i'll lose all hope, until then... "i'm holding til Mal get's back."

Think about it... it was what like two years after the end of the series that there was rumors of a movie being made? This is just another lull.

Want Firefly/ Serenity/ BtVS/ Angel desktop wallpapers? Take a look at the ones I've created at:
http://www.whispergraphics.net
Now hosting the Firefly Extended Gagreel
I have added a forum to my site and now I need some members!



Actually I think I read somewhere (posted here too) that Joss has said those characters are done. Not the verse, just those characters.

Now don't go thinking I'm trying to be negative and I don't want more series or movies, because that is so not true. Just because the creator says it's finished doesn't mean it is if the fans speak loud enough. I'm in on the June 23 thing and have very HIGH hopes of getting another glimpse into the verse.

But for the original post. This story is far from over. Zoe now has to deal with Wash's loss. Where will they go to hide with Book dead? What about Mal and Inara's relationship? What about River wanting to fly Serenity? And of course what about Badger, Saffron, the russian (whose name I can't spell)?

The Operative is out becaus Mal said he'd kill him if he ever saw him again. I'm sure the Reavers thing was the big thing in River's head but it can't be the only thing. Totalitarian governments tend to have more than one big secret. Besides with that knowledge out there lots of people are going to be pissed and maybe want to do something. Maybe a second war. Who knows the possibilities are endless.

so don't give up hope. Oh yeah and didn't you know the crew signed on to do three movies (provided Serenity did well enough) so believe me that it ain't over yet.

Under a Blag Flag We Shall Sail

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 4:33 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Cathera:
Quote:

Originally posted by Whisper:
Give it time! We're only a few months out and Joss has not said that it's over yet. When he says it, then i'll lose all hope, until then... "i'm holding til Mal get's back."

Think about it... it was what like two years after the end of the series that there was rumors of a movie being made? This is just another lull.




Oh yeah and didn't you know the crew signed on to do three movies (provided Serenity did well enough) so believe me that it ain't over yet.

Under a Blag Flag We Shall Sail



They did sign on to do three movies, and I think they all fully expect to do two more. I expect them to do two more. The DVD sales are strong, they will be even stronger after June 23rd, which is a brilliant idea folks, so we just have to do what Browncoats are good at doing... hold the line. Joss is busy with WW and Goners, his attention will turn back to the 'verse. We have some time to wait and convince Universal to make another one or two.

I'm holdin' til Mal gets back.

Click here http://www.serenitymovie.org/browncoats/forums/index.php?showtopic=478
0
for info about the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew, Mal's Bunk, and how to join.

FM- Shepherd of the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew




" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:03 AM

ZOID


Ellis wrote, in part:
Quote:

I finished watching the series and many people were right: I absolutely love it. I figured I’d watch Serenity again because some things would have more significance, more impact, and I would understand some of the things going on better than I did before. It was like watching a whole new movie. After watching it, though, something occurred to me: it’s the end.

See, almost everyone here keeps talking about bringing back Firefly to TV or the possibility of a sequel; I say: leave it where it is. True, it’s sad that there aren’t more episodes, but really, what could Joss do to continue it?

The death of Mr. Universe is inconsequential since he was a character unique to the movie (as far as I can tell; I never heard him mentioned in the series). The death of Book and Wash, however, would make continuing the series pointless. In Firefly, it’s about all of them and how they interact with each other; how they balance each other out. Having those two gone means that anything that comes after it would be hollow...


Alright. First off, I think you're fishing, here (or 'trolling', in it's most beneficent form).

But just in case you're not, ingest the following and call me in the morning:

********************

The Present...

Mal looked at Zoe, nodded solemnly, then turned back to face his brother.

“Your face has been splashed all across the Cortex, Magnus,” he said without further preamble.

“Never thought I had the looks to be a Cortex star, did'ja?” Magnus retorted, still in an amiably bantering tone, his eye starting to swell ominously.

“This isn't a joking matter,” Mal said seriously. The smile faded from his brother's face. “What in God's name do you think you're doing?” Mal asked him.

“What am I doing?” replied Magnus angrily. “The same thing I've been doing since the Alliance killed our whole f*cking planet, that's what! Killing those bastards where ever I find them!”

Mal remained silent for a moment before asking, “And the civilian employees, women and children?”

“If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs, Malcolm,” Magnus replied soberly. “Besides, I'm not the one who put them in harm's way.”

“There's gotta be another way, Magnus,” Malcolm responded softly.

“There's not,” his brother replied. “Look. We've got 'em on the run now, Malcolm. Did you hear about what those bastards did on Miranda?”

“I heard something about it”, Mal said evasively.

“Well, the Alliance pulled off their old trick of mass-murdering a whole planet, again, is what they did. Those that didn't die were turned into the Reavers we all know and love”, Magnus related. “I reckon the ones who died were the lucky ones. Those people were 'civilians, women and children', too, Malcolm. Who avenges their deaths?”

“Two wrongs don't make a right,” Mal said pointedly. “Mama always said-”

“Mama's dead, Malcolm!” Magnus interrupted. “And you know why!”

Into Mal's shamed silence, Magnus continued hotly, “The only thing that lets me sleep at night is the satisfaction that her murderer never made it off Shadow alive. That sonofabitch got chopped up and incinerated along with our whole family and everything else that walks, crawls or swims. You been back 'home', Malcolm?”

Mal just looked at him haggardly.

“Well, I have,” Magnus asserted. “What they never showed in the newswaves was that about two hours after they ripped the surface off the moon, they turned the grav generators back on. Everything – well 'most everything – fell back planetside in a jumble, over the next year or two. No sense wasting all the money the Alliance had spent terraforming the place, all the atmo and biomass. But it's tabula rasa down there, a clean slate. I used global positioning to find our homestead. There's nothing there. Not even Mama's grave, and I scanned for metals.”

“None of that makes any difference, Magnus,” Mal croaked unsteadily. Clearing his throat, he continued, “You was raised Christian, brother. What you're doing is nothing but wrong.”

“Don't give me any of that superstitious mumbo-jumbo!” Magnus exclaimed disgustedly. “God is just a fairy tale made up to keep the suckers toeing the line. I'm with Grandaddy Stuart on this one: Show me some tangible evidence and I'll acknowledge this 'God' of yours. 'Til then, vengeance is mine, not some nebulous, government-serving god's.”

“Okay,” Mal replied with more vehemence than he could account for, “so leave God out of the equation. How do you reckon spilling the blood of innocent civilians is going to do anything other than insure that more of our women and children get killed? How many Shadows until you're satisfied?”

“As many as it takes! They've already killed all our women and children – mine and yours. And I promise the next 'Shadow' is going to be a Core World,” Magnus concluded abruptly.

Magnus' men all gave him pointed looks. Mal noticed one or two of those looks seemed sharper than the others.

With a feeling of cold dread, Mal asked his brother, “What are you doing, Magnus?”

“Can't tell you, Malcolm,” he replied with a hint of false bravado. “'Need to know'. You understand.”

“Don't do it. I'm begging you, in the name of our family, not to do whatever it is you're planning,” Mal beseeched him. “Get out of this business and get on with your life, an honest life.”

“Can't,” Magnus replied sadly, with an unmistakeable air of finality. “My life ended when Shadow died.”

Mal looked down and nodded his head.

“Then this is where we part company, Magnus,” Mal said softly. Looking up suddenly, he pleaded one more time, “Come with us, Magnus! I'll take you anywhere you want to go! And I got friends who could get you a new identity; you could start from scratch. Anything but this! This-” Mal said, gesturing at the room around him, “-looks like defeat, not victory.”

“I'm sorry, Mal,” Magnus said, smiling warmly, “but this is my destiny. I don't suppose you'd consider joining me? It'd be nice to have someone – family – I could trust.”

Mal looked down and shook his head.

“No, I didn't think so,” Magnus concluded.

The brothers stood apart for an eternity composed of a moment, then embraced each other once more, one final time.

Looking directly into his brother's eyes, as though to capture his image for all eternity, Mal said, “I hope to never see you again, Magnus.”

“Me too, little brother,” Magnus replied, smiling lightly. “Me too.”

********************

...And I'm not even Joss.

Any idea that the story is finished is just plain horse manure. The story's not over until Malcolm's pushin' up daisies. He is the albatross -- the one trouble always seems to find, 'fortune's fool' -- not River. Sometimes common folks find themselves inexorably caught in the gears of history. Firefly is their story.



Medicinally,

zoid

ETA:
Fanfic, "Shadow". Miniseries format. Book reappears in form of video diary from the First War of Independence. Wash is still dead (there's a joke in there somewhere). No new crew added, superfluous. Events take place right after end of "Serenity". Extensive flashbacks reveal Mal's and Zoe's backstory; Tracey is in the backstory. The titular 'Shadow' is not only Mal's destroyed homeworld, but a reference to the darkside of patriotism: terrorism, as embodied by Mal's older brother, Magnus. He -- like the Operative before him -- is a self-justified monster. Magnus is the 'shadow' of Mal's code of behavior.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:25 AM

HERA


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:


They did sign on to do three movies, and I think they all fully expect to do two more. I expect them to do two more. The DVD sales are strong, they will be even stronger after June 23rd, which is a brilliant idea folks, so we just have to do what Browncoats are good at doing... hold the line. Joss is busy with WW and Goners, his attention will turn back to the 'verse. We have some time to wait and convince Universal to make another one or two.

I'm holdin' til Mal gets back.



IMO, buying the BDM on Firefly day is the way to go. Fox already has enough of my money, the bastards. We should support Universal. I am ready for the Browncoat insurgency! I share Joss's birthday (June 23rd), so in a way it's a present to me as well. Let's go kick some Amazon.com a$$ and Universal will make more movies.

BTW, my brother that I evangelized over the holidays converted two more folks to Browncoats from his Microsoft certification course. The ripples just keep on going.

"Wanna?" – Mal to Kaylee, Out of Gas

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:27 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

They did sign on to do three movies,




Just because they signed on for 3 movies does not mean that they expect to do 3 movies. That is just Universal guaranteeing that they have the same people playing the same characters IF the movie does well and IF they want to make more.

Basically, it's just good business sense. I don't think that you should read into it any more than that.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:38 AM

FOLLOWMAL




I know it's a gamble SigmaNunki, I'm not reading an absolute into this... but I am reading the same hope that Universal obviously had and that is if we sign them, if the sales are good, if the time is right.. we'll make another and perhaps even another. They have to be thinking that if their good business sense told them to sign them.

So therefore I don't think we're out of line to hope for the same thing. If we make the sales good and the time becomes right and since Universal has them all signed... we can look for another and perhaps another.

Not false hope, SigmaNunki, educated hope.

I'm a Browncoat and a businesswoman. I have to look at it that way. It's logical.




Click here http://www.serenitymovie.org/browncoats/forums/index.php?showtopic=478
0
for info about the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew, Mal's Bunk, and how to join.

FM- Shepherd of the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew




" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:46 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
Ellis wrote, in part:
Quote:

I finished watching the series and many people were right: I absolutely love it. I figured I’d watch Serenity again because some things would have more significance, more impact, and I would understand some of the things going on better than I did before. It was like watching a whole new movie. After watching it, though, something occurred to me: it’s the end.

See, almost everyone here keeps talking about bringing back Firefly to TV or the possibility of a sequel; I say: leave it where it is. True, it’s sad that there aren’t more episodes, but really, what could Joss do to continue it?

The death of Mr. Universe is inconsequential since he was a character unique to the movie (as far as I can tell; I never heard him mentioned in the series). The death of Book and Wash, however, would make continuing the series pointless. In Firefly, it’s about all of them and how they interact with each other; how they balance each other out. Having those two gone means that anything that comes after it would be hollow...


Alright. First off, I think you're fishing, here (or 'trolling', in it's most beneficent form).

But just in case you're not, ingest the following and call me in the morning:

********************

The Present...

Mal looked at Zoe, nodded solemnly, then turned back to face his brother.

“Your face has been splashed all across the Cortex, Magnus,” he said without further preamble.

“Never thought I had the looks to be a Cortex star, did'ja?” Magnus retorted, still in an amiably bantering tone, his eye starting to swell ominously.

“This isn't a joking matter,” Mal said seriously. The smile faded from his brother's face. “What in God's name do you think you're doing?” Mal asked him.

“What am I doing?” replied Magnus angrily. “The same thing I've been doing since the Alliance killed our whole f*cking planet, that's what! Killing those bastards where ever I find them!”

Mal remained silent for a moment before asking, “And the civilian employees, women and children?”

“If you wanna make an omelet, you gotta break some eggs, Malcolm,” Magnus replied soberly. “Besides, I'm not the one who put them in harm's way.”

“There's gotta be another way, Magnus,” Malcolm responded softly.

“There's not,” his brother replied. “Look. We've got 'em on the run now, Malcolm. Did you hear about what those bastards did on Miranda?”

“I heard something about it”, Mal said evasively.

“Well, the Alliance pulled off their old trick of mass-murdering a whole planet, again, is what they did. Those that didn't die were turned into the Reavers we all know and love”, Magnus related. “I reckon the ones who died were the lucky ones. Those people were 'civilians, women and children', too, Malcolm. Who avenges their deaths?”

“Two wrongs don't make a right,” Mal said pointedly. “Mama always said-”

“Mama's dead, Malcolm!” Magnus interrupted. “And you know why!”

Into Mal's shamed silence, Magnus continued hotly, “The only thing that lets me sleep at night is the satisfaction that her murderer never made it off Shadow alive. That sonofabitch got chopped up and incinerated along with our whole family and everything else that walks, crawls or swims. You been back 'home', Malcolm?”

Mal just looked at him haggardly.

“Well, I have,” Magnus asserted. “What they never showed in the newswaves was that about two hours after they ripped the surface off the moon, they turned the grav generators back on. Everything – well 'most everything – fell back planetside in a jumble, over the next year or two. No sense wasting all the money the Alliance had spent terraforming the place, all the atmo and biomass. But it's tabula rasa down there, a clean slate. I used global positioning to find our homestead. There's nothing there. Not even Mama's grave, and I scanned for metals.”

“None of that makes any difference, Magnus,” Mal croaked unsteadily. Clearing his throat, he continued, “You was raised Christian, brother. What you're doing is nothing but wrong.”

“Don't give me any of that superstitious mumbo-jumbo!” Magnus exclaimed disgustedly. “God is just a fairy tale made up to keep the suckers toeing the line. I'm with Grandaddy Stuart on this one: Show me some tangible evidence and I'll acknowledge this 'God' of yours. 'Til then, vengeance is mine, not some nebulous, government-serving god's.”

“Okay,” Mal replied with more vehemence than he could account for, “so leave God out of the equation. How do you reckon spilling the blood of innocent civilians is going to do anything other than insure that more of our women and children get killed? How many Shadows until you're satisfied?”

“As many as it takes! They've already killed all our women and children – mine and yours. And I promise the next 'Shadow' is going to be a Core World,” Magnus concluded abruptly.

Magnus' men all gave him pointed looks. Mal noticed one or two of those looks seemed sharper than the others.

With a feeling of cold dread, Mal asked his brother, “What are you doing, Magnus?”

“Can't tell you, Malcolm,” he replied with a hint of false bravado. “'Need to know'. You understand.”

“Don't do it. I'm begging you, in the name of our family, not to do whatever it is you're planning,” Mal beseeched him. “Get out of this business and get on with your life, an honest life.”

“Can't,” Magnus replied sadly, with an unmistakeable air of finality. “My life ended when Shadow died.”

Mal looked down and nodded his head.

“Then this is where we part company, Magnus,” Mal said softly. Looking up suddenly, he pleaded one more time, “Come with us, Magnus! I'll take you anywhere you want to go! And I got friends who could get you a new identity; you could start from scratch. Anything but this! This-” Mal said, gesturing at the room around him, “-looks like defeat, not victory.”

“I'm sorry, Mal,” Magnus said, smiling warmly, “but this is my destiny. I don't suppose you'd consider joining me? It'd be nice to have someone – family – I could trust.”

Mal looked down and shook his head.

“No, I didn't think so,” Magnus concluded.

The brothers stood apart for an eternity composed of a moment, then embraced each other once more, one final time.

Looking directly into his brother's eyes, as though to capture his image for all eternity, Mal said, “I hope to never see you again, Magnus.”

“Me too, little brother,” Magnus replied, smiling lightly. “Me too.”

********************

...And I'm not even Joss.

Any idea that the story is finished is just plain horse manure. The story's not over until Malcolm's pushin' up daisies. He is the albatross -- the one trouble always seems to find, 'fortune's fool' -- not River. Sometimes common folks find themselves inexorably caught in the gears of history. Firefly is their story.



Medicinally,

zoid

ETA:
Fanfic, "Shadow". Miniseries format. Book reappears in form of video diary from the First War of Independence. Wash is still dead (there's a joke in there somewhere). No new crew added, superfluous. Events take place right after end of "Serenity". Extensive flashbacks reveal Mal's and Zoe's backstory; Tracey is in the backstory. The titular 'Shadow' is not only Mal's destroyed homeworld, but a reference to the darkside of patriotism: terrorism, as embodied by Mal's older brother, Magnus. He -- like the Operative before him -- is a self-justified monster. Magnus is the 'shadow' of Mal's code of behavior.
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'



G-Damn, Zoid.. you took my breath away. As always. Point driven home! I am so proud to be in the Browncoat Army with you!

Click here http://www.serenitymovie.org/browncoats/forums/index.php?showtopic=478
0
for info about the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew, Mal's Bunk, and how to join.

FM- Shepherd of the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew




" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 5:47 AM

ARCADIA


It would be possible to continue Firefly/Serenity, no doubt. It would be sad to have buffy without Book and Joss, but in a Whedon show (kind of like in real life) you expect the cast to change. There was at least one addition/drop in Buffy's cast every year, and every year that show knocked my socks off. Ditto for Angel. They killed Doyle in episode eleven! (Sorry, I'm still having trouble getting over this).

That said, on nine days out of ten, I agree with you. I'm not sure how I'd react to more Firefly. I'm concerned about getting everyone to come back. I'm concern so much time as passed since the series that it would be... hmm, I don't want to say "the same", because it wouldn't be. I guess I'm concered that the differences would be too much to stomach, that it would lose its touch, etc.

That said, if they ever brought it backm guess what I'd be doing every Firday night? (or Tuesday, or whatever).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Objects in Space"

River: It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think...
http://www.stillflying.net/ <-- Check it out!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:14 AM

ZOID


FollowMal:

My point was strictly that even a bad writer -- *zoid doffs cap with moth-eaten feather stuck in it* -- can see plenty of room for continuation of the Firefly 'verse, without resorting to Wash clones, the Op joining the crew to replace Book, et cetera.

The next movie should be better, simply because there will be fewer characters to split the focus on. Joss even promised in his BDM commentary to "make it up to Morena" for so little screentime in the first movie. I think he's already got the second movie fleshed out in his mind.

I include the video diary flashbacks of Book simply because his past is so important to what he becomes, so important to what he becomes to Mal. Leaving his story untold is the greatest crime of the BDM. We all need that 'A-ha!', don't we?

To reiterate: The crucial realization should be that there is a lot of story to be told, so long as you break away from fixating on what has gone before. River's story has been told; although as a more-or-less fully functional crew member she's not entirely out of the action; she's just not the focus any longer. In order for Firefly to be over, the focus must eventually come to Mal (and Inara?), in a way in which it never truly did in "Serenity". The character of Malcolm Reynolds must be resolved for this obsession to be 'over'.

Like Nathan, I expect Mal's defining moment will result in his self-sacrificial death.

...or not.

Left the way it is, Serenity and Firefly were a story about River. We all know it's about Malcolm. He's the main character, and I defy contradiction on that point. So, it's not finished until the main character's story is over.

QED.



Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I may not be a writer, but I am an educated reader. I know the basic tenets of fiction and storytelling. And I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:57 AM

WICCA303


hi Zoid,

loved the chapter/paragraph above, is there more of this story somewhere? If there is can you post a link for me, please.

Would love to read more.

(Know this is off topic but oh well)

I love my Captain

"You hold till i get back."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:04 AM

EVILDINOSAUR


I agree, I think it should be done. The only way it should continue is as a tv show, ignoring what happened in the movie, and picking right up where the series left off.

The more I watch this stuff, the more I just feel Firefly is a tv show, and tv is where it should stay. It's not about the big picture and epic battles, it's about a small group of people, and how they deal with life.

and yea, I can't see it having the same magic without book and wash, the formula for the crew was perfect, but that's my opinion.




"Haha, mine is an evil laugh."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:07 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:

I know it's a gamble SigmaNunki, I'm not reading an absolute into this... but I am reading the same hope that Universal obviously had and that is if we sign them, if the sales are good, if the time is right.. we'll make another and perhaps even another. They have to be thinking that if their good business sense told them to sign them.

So therefore I don't think we're out of line to hope for the same thing. If we make the sales good and the time becomes right and since Universal has them all signed... we can look for another and perhaps another.

Not false hope, SigmaNunki, educated hope.

I'm a Browncoat and a businesswoman. I have to look at it that way. It's logical.




I just mentioned that because I see way too many people make the conjecture that because they signed on for 3, that we'll get 3. This wasn't really directed at you, but that particular comment (which you just happened to make here).

As for more movies though, I think we'd have to see a gigantic leap in sales (millions) to have a good chance to get more. Unfortunately, I really don't see that happening.

Perhaps in 5 years (even if), but I don't think anytime soon.

IMO that is.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:28 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
too many people make the conjecture that because they signed on for 3, that we'll get 3. This wasn't really directed at you, but that particular comment (which you just happened to make here).

As for more movies though, I think we'd have to see a gigantic leap in sales (millions) to have a good chance to get more. Unfortunately, I really don't see that happening.

Perhaps in 5 years (even if), but I don't think anytime soon.

IMO that is.



see? I would consider 5 years soon...
there was a looonng gap between the first Star Wars and the second (and that was a big hit)

and a better comparison is the even longer gap between the first and second Star Trek movies.

Joss has said he has 100 Firefly/Serenity stories in his brain and he intends to tell them. He is still a very young man, and we can expect to get our BDHs periodically over the next 30 years.

IMO that is.


**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:32 AM

MALSDOXY

I know what did this...


Ellis, Ellis, Ellis,
'Serenity' is just a blip in the timeline that is Firefly...Of course the series can return, there are so many other stories our intrepid captain and crew need to tell...Oh Ye of Little Faith...

"Haven't you killed me enough for one day ?"
- Mal, War Stories

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:36 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:

see? I would consider 5 years soon...
there was a looonng gap between the first Star Wars and the second (and that was a big hit)

and a better comparison is the even longer gap between the first and second Star Trek movies.

Joss has said he has 100 Firefly/Serenity stories in his brain and he intends to tell them. He is still a very young man, and we can expect to get our BDHs periodically over the next 30 years.

IMO that is.




But the question here is, if we have the chance to get them, do we want them? I'm not convinced that that is so.

----
"We're in a giant car heading into a brick wall at 100 miles/hr and everybody's arguing about where they want to sit."
-David Suzuki

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:38 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

As for more movies though, I think we'd have to see a gigantic leap in sales (millions) to have a good chance to get more. Unfortunately, I really don't see that happening.

Perhaps in 5 years (even if), but I don't think anytime soon.

IMO that is.



What are the sales for Serenity, do you know? I had read an online artice recently where they quoted Ejiofor ( The Operative) and he said that he had heard that DVD sales were going very well.

I believe from just looking at the sales on Amazon that there has been a good response.
Of course, as far as I can tell there is no absolute way to tell how many have been sold, in fact I've read comments on this board and others that the studios are rather private about that.

IMHO, they are relying on DVD sales for the incentive to greenlight projects more than ever before. I have seen some real sucky movies get a sequel greenlighted on their DVD sales record. Since Serenity isn't sucky, and it's DVD sales have the potential to be good, it stands us in good stead.

The glass is half full for me rather than half empty. I am here.... holdin' with Zoid. Mal will be back. He has to be.

Click here http://www.serenitymovie.org/browncoats/forums/index.php?showtopic=478
0
for info about the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew, Mal's Bunk, and how to join.

FM- Shepherd of the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew




" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 7:54 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

But the question here is, if we have the chance to get them, do we want them? I'm not convinced that that is so.


well that depends on a lot factors....
if Wonder Woman is a huge failure (and of course I'm hoping for a big hit)
then Joss STILL has another chance with Goners (since Universal is definitely making that regardless...

if they are both huge failures then Joss might start looking at TV again
if one or both are huge hits then I think Joss will be able to write his own ticket in Hollywood (which would include getting to try again with the sequel to 'Serenity', since that is still very close to his heart).

It is way too early to be so pessimistic (IMO)
as I said: Joss is young, he has time...



**********************************************
watch the R. Tam Session vids: http://www.hittarivertam.nu/
and buy the 'Serenity' comics published by Dark Horse
have you checked out this thread?:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

and listen to 'I'm Going To See Serenity':
http://music.podshow.com/music/listeners/artistdetails.php?BandHash=a0
c814e1229742ce77ed4497cbf4631c

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:08 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:

Originally posted by embers:

see? I would consider 5 years soon...




But the question here is, if we have the chance to get them, do we want them? I'm not convinced that that is so.



I DO! OF COURSE I DO!



Click here http://www.serenitymovie.org/browncoats/forums/index.php?showtopic=478
0
for info about the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew, Mal's Bunk, and how to join.

FM- Shepherd of the Appreciatin' Nathan Crew




" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 8:17 AM

ZOID


wicca303 requested:
Quote:

hi Zoid,

loved the chapter/paragraph above, is there more of this story somewhere? If there is can you post a link for me, please.

Would love to read more...


Yes, there is more, but it hasn't been electronically published yet.

The preceding excerpt comes from pages 54-56 of "Shadow". I had promised myself not to publish (electronically) any of it until it was finished -- which promise I reaffirm for the future -- but, the incessant negativity of so many 'Browncoats' forced me to do so.

The problem is that I have a life, which keeps getting in the way of quickly finishing this particular 'folly' (in the British sense of the word). I have a specific idea for all the major plot points, including the ending and denouement; but the story keeps revealing itself to me in the process of writing it, making the whole process 'stickier', when I even have the time to devote to it. (NB: It should also be noted that I would be the perfect chief executive officer of the Procrastinators' Club, if I could ever get up the gumption to campaign for it.)

So, don't expect more any time soon. I reckon I'm about a third (or less) of the way through, and it's still a first draft.

Sorry to be a tease.

My only defense is that I was trying to show that there is a lot more story to be told, and my focus is mostly on Mal in this diversion. After I finish this one, I'll put it up on FFF.net in the BlueSun Room. Then I'll begin work on the last part of my (fan)fictional two-story work, entitled "Firefly", which wraps up everybody's story.

Those who think the story cannot continue suffer from a lack of imagination, and I can think of no condemnation more stinging than that.

FollowMal and SigmaNunki:

My hunch is that there is a vast untapped audience for Firefly, composed mainly of disenfranchised Star Wars and Star Trek fans. These fans will -- within the next year or so -- come under the sway of the Firefly 'verse, and we'll get greenlit. The millions of Star Wars fans alone should start going into heavy withdrawal symptoms any moment now. (*tick, tick, tick*)

Hopefully, we'll get several full seasons of TV series. Second best would be a TV miniseries, since it allows for more character arc than a movie, at less expense (marginally) than a movie or a complete season. (NB: That's why I envision "Shadow" as an optimally multipart miniseries, two-hours per installment, premiering on SciFi Channel in Q2 2007.) Third best would be a second movie, imo, because it's just too limited time-wise to cover a full one-third of the remaining character plotlines.

...Which is the most important aspect of the Firefly phenomenon.


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
Also, with any luck, if a second movie gets made it won't be accompanied by a natural disaster in one of the nation's top petroleum refining and transportation regions, like "Serenity" was. And them's business facts, too. Katrina not only killed New Orleans, it killed our movie at the box office. I'd like somebody at Universal to recognize that correlation...
_________________________________________________

"I aim to misbehave." -Capt. Mal Reynolds, Serenity, a.k.a. 'the BDBOF'

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 10:50 AM

WICCA303


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid

Yes, there is more, but it hasn't been electronically published yet.

The preceding excerpt comes from pages 54-56 of "Shadow". I had promised myself not to publish (electronically) any of it until it was finished -- which promise I reaffirm for the future -- but, the incessant negativity of so many 'Browncoats' forced me to do so.

So, don't expect more any time soon. I reckon I'm about a third (or less) of the way through, and it's still a first draft.

Sorry to be a tease.

My only defense is that I was trying to show that there is a lot more story to be told, and my focus is mostly on Mal in this diversion. After I finish this one, I'll put it up on FFF.net in the BlueSun Room. Then I'll begin work on the last part of my (fan)fictional two-story work, entitled "Firefly", which wraps up everybody's story.





Understand where/why but my pet-lip is out and quivering, want more.
It does sound fantastic. Glad you've got the imagination others are lacking, if only you could bottle it, I can think of a few people in need of some.

*writes on a post-it so i don't forget to look out for story later.*

I love my Captain

"You hold till I get back."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 12:08 PM

JOSSISAGOD


While I respect your opinion, here's mine. Serenity and/or Firefly WILL continue, even with the deaths of two main characters we still have seven characters to explore! While anything new may not have the titles of Firefly or Serenity, or may not even be a new T.V. show or movie, the 'verse WILL live on, as long as we(the fans) hold the line and hold out hope!

we are after all Browncoats, and have proven we can do the impossible!

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 12:19 PM

THENEXTMRSREYNOLDS


the sad truth is we will never know what the stories would have been. i really can't see joss killing wash or book early in the series. wash especially. he is the foil foe zoe, and what's this "strained marriage"? they had the best, most realistic marriage on tv! their deaths in the movie do not bode well for continuaton of the tv series, movie maybe. I'm as hard core as most of you, but...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 1:13 PM

ELLIS


I do have to quickly point out that I'm not what you would consider a "Joss Whedon fan" in that I never really cared for Buffy and I never saw Angel, so I'm somewhat unfamiliar with his style (i.e. killing off characters, etc). I am, however, a huge fan of what he has done in creating the 'verse and I would like to see more of it.

You all make very valid points. I stand, humbly, corrected.

"Ten percent of nothin' is, let me do the math here: nothin' and then nothin', carry the nothin'..." - Jayne

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:28 PM

TEINEN


EMBERS

"see? I would consider 5 years soon...
there was a looonng gap between the first Star Wars and the second (and that was a big hit)

and a better comparison is the even longer gap between the first and second Star Trek movies.

Joss has said he has 100 Firefly/Serenity stories in his brain and he intends to tell them. He is still a very young man, and we can expect to get our BDHs periodically over the next 30 years."
----------------------------------------------

My thoughts also. Forget starting in between the show and the film. We could pop in 5 years later and be open to so many options.

Now to say that the story arc is killed is just not very creative. What if Zoe happened to be pregnant (she displayed a strong desire to have children in "Heart of Gold"), how tragic would that be? To see a little 5 year old boy walking around Serenity as an opening scene? River is now more of an actual character. She is Serenity now. Her and Simon are free from the obvious dynamic of big brother, little sister, and are free to be seperate people, etc...

And as far as Star Wars and Star Trek goes, Star Trek was only on a couple of seasons and look what happened with that. And i have to say i am a huge Star Wars fan who has been converted to a huge Firefly/Serenity fan. And my point is this....

With the new Star Wars live action series coming out in 2007 (trying to make something they would with 20 million for 1 million), and most likely becomeing a huge hit, i can only assume that we will see a demand from tv stations for similiar tv shows. "Firefly? Look at what the did years ago, imagine what they could do now?"

Look at CSI. Now we have CSI:Miami, CSI:Blah, NCIS, SVU...and so many other stupid crime dramas i cant keep track. When Firefly came out, we did not have alot of big budget, cinema styled TV shows. It was too ahead of its time. Now look at Battle Star Galactica. That show sucks (period), and compared to Firefly ????? I was never a fan of Buffy or Angel,and the fact that Firefly was made by the same people was actual a big negative to me. But here i am. Joss is a genius.

I know that a film would be the best way to go. But as is said, we still have a chance at another TV show.

But even if this is it, its stil pretty awesome.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, April 15, 2006 6:37 PM

MALAYNADREAMS


*holds with the rest of the faithful Browncoats* Just gotta have ME! (Faith, heh)

There's so much of the 'verse we can still see, even aside from new characters (which would open the doors to even more new shinyness). Wash and Book aren't out of it yet! I remember in one interview, Joss said something to the effect: "Don't be surprised if you see Wash and Book in the next movie!" There's also flashbacks and various other ways we could see those two. And there's a great thread about Wash not being dead...so who knows.

All I know is...we ain't seen nothin' yet! ^_^

--------------------
Call me Faith--we're family here, no need to be informal.
*Browncoat since March '06: late on the bandwagon, but I ain't going anywhere!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL