GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Question about Reavers

POSTED BY: ROCKXWL
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 22:35
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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:53 AM

ROCKXWL


If this has ever been asked before I apologize. I didn't search very hard for a similar thread. Anyway...

Reavers rape and kill everyone they come across, thus killing off any chances they have of reproducing unless they reproduce among themselves. If they don't reproduce among themselves the Reavers will die out in 40 or so years since there is only a generation or two of people from Miranda that became Reavers. So, do Reavers reproduce or would they just die out in a couple of decades?


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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 4:57 AM

ZZETTA13


The PAX was sent to other places. And by the by don't think we'll ever see the powers that be stop trying to create a uni without sin.

Z

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:01 AM

MSG


well remember the one man that survived when the reavers attacked? He sort of transformed into a reaver himself...so obviously they can convert...oooh creey reaver missionaries

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:01 AM

ROCKXWL


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:
The PAX was sent to other places. And by the by don't think we'll ever see the powers that be stop trying to create a uni without sin.

Z



Alright but even with the PAX being sent out to other places...that means that those planets died off as well and I doubt even the Alliance would continue killing off entire planets. So that accounts for more Reavers than just the folks from Miranda, but if they don't reproduce they will die out just as quickly whether there are 1,000 of them or 1,000,000.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:02 AM

SPACEANJL


Die out. But 3,000,000 Reavers is a lot of teeth and the like. Plus, they are going to be varying ages - 10% total population of the world.

Actually, reconsidering, it's possible that there will be some kind of tribal development. Though possibly along the lines of 'Honey, I ate the kids'.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:03 AM

GREATBLACKTHORN


The PAX affected an entire population, so there must be female reavers, which may mean Reavers can reproduce.

But the odds of a Reaver being able to raise a child are one in a...Very large number, so I'd put any new Reavers down to other PAX affected planets or converted captives.

She'll turn you in before you can say "Don't turn me in...lady..."

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:06 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Quote:

oooh creey reaver missionaries


Does anyone else have an image in their heads of two Reavers dressed in sober suits, standing in the doorway saying "Just have a read through the pamphlets and we can call back next week to discuss them more. And in the meantime you may want to ask yourself 'Am I a happy person?'"

Desktop Hippie: at one with the 'verse

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:09 AM

MSG


LOL- oh that's just dreadful...maybe they could explain about the kid taking a dirt nap with baby jesus and his use as a hood ornament....

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:10 AM

NANITE1018


Actually, i just watched the movie last night (for the third time in the last 7 days) and the Alliance scientist says "about one tenth of a percent of the population" which means there are only 30,000 Reavers. And where'd you get the Pax being shipped to other planets? The Alliance isn't going to use Pax more than once, it is a disaster, as demonstrated by Miranda. And since they knew what happened there, why try again? You don't try something one place, where it causes 99.9% of the people to simply stop doing anything at all, and letting themselves die, and then the other .1% of the people turn into Reavers, then go do it again somewhere else. That's crazy!

I aim to misbehave.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:13 AM

ZZETTA13


ROCKXWL,

Don't forget reruns. Whats a summer without a little extra PAX pumped into the atmo on those lazy firefly nights. WACKY FUN

MSG & Desktop,Reaver Missionariess? How about we all make a trip to "Bones Town" in South America. Plenty to eat just don't drink the KOOL-AID

Brings up a question. Reavers being cannibals. If theres no one around to eat, what does a reaver do? " Gorram my legs look mighty good."

Z

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:16 AM

SCHOONER


I'm at work and can't find the correct thread, but there was a huge discussion abut this around nine months ago. Many theories were proposed. The one I thought was most interesting (and my apologies to the original posters if I am over-simplifying) is that PAX was basically a prion, like Mad Cow Disease. This would mean that "Reaverism" could be passed on to other people by eating Reaver flesh. So new Reavers could be created by this method, and children born to Reavers would carry the disease as well.

If someone knows the original thread off-hand, please post a link. Amazing stuff, and really impressed me with the level of interest and intelligence of the people on this site. Thanks, folks.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:26 AM

TRISTAN


Hehehe, I can actually see that...heck, with the tweens these days having their faces covered in bits of metal, the Reavers might just fit right in...I shudder to think what their ties would be made of, though...

Back to creating more Reavers...I do think they are capable of "creating" more of themselves. Not by reproducing...that would just be wrong...and would at the same time produce a tiny little snack (ew). I would imagine they can "create" others the same way they did in Bushwacked...

______________________________________

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:31 AM

13


Pax means 'peace' in Latin, I think.

Dunno why I said that...

-------------------------------------------------

'I don't know. He seems kind of peculiar.'

'Maybe he's Canadian!'

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:49 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Reavers could not reproduce because they are exposed to constant radiation and are therefore sterile. Besides, I can't see a Reaver carrying a child to term in the first place with the life they seem to have, and it seems like they would just eat it right away. I know, gross.
The PAX was not sent to other planets, nor did River get a hit of it, nor did they experiment with it beforehand, nor did they continue to experiment with it; where do people come up with these ideas?
There's no shortage of non-selves to eat, even if they happened to go after other Reavers. I read a theory about this that they were fine around each other, but "normal" pheremones drove them mad. I don't think this is true either, because the guy in Bushwacked only started "functioning" properly after commiting violence, not to mention he never got hit with the PAX.
That's the only way I can see them making more of themselves; forcing normal people to watch until they went out of their minds. I was always stunned that they would even have the mental capacity for this. Hell, I'm stunned they can fly ships.
Basically, Reavers really are boogeymen; they make no logical sense and are very scary.

**********************************

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:37 AM

ZZETTA13


13, seens like I remember the "Amity" of Amity Island in Jaws ment Friendship too. At least the Great White shark thought so.That brings an image to mind, a school of reavers encircling a great white. Each intent on filling up on the other. Who would wiw?

PhoenixRose. The PAX not sent to other plantet? I beg to differ. I know folk that say they are up to 3 or 4 PAX a day


Z

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 7:43 AM

MARVLGRL


I kind of think the Reavers could inbreed. That would just make 'em even more mucked up.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:00 AM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


I don't think so

no baby reavers


BURMA!



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:08 AM

MARVLGRL


Aw but baby reavers would be so cute...and by "cute" I mean incredibly repulsive. Maybe reavers give birth to full size reavers...

BTW, absolutely LOVE the "I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark"...comedic gold.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:15 AM

BIGWOLF18


thats just plain creepy! i think they couldn't reproduce but they could covert people like bushwacked, i can see them coming to your door, like jahovas witnesses, (if there are any jerhovas witnesses on here sorry but, jerhovas witnesses are gorram annoying!)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
98% OF TEENS HAVE SMOKED POT, IF YOU ARE ONE ON THE 2% THAT HASENT, COPY THIS INTO YOUR SIGNATURE.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:17 AM

MARVLGRL


I would imagine the Reavers would send their message of raping and pillaging through book clubs (a la Alan Tudyk's line on the gag reel).

98% OF TEENS HAVE SMOKED POT, IF YOU ARE ONE ON THE 2% THAT HASENT, COPY THIS INTO YOUR SIGNATURE.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:20 AM

SPACEANJL


The Reaver Cafe Cook Book?

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:33 AM

MARVLGRL


Do Reavers cook? I think they're more raw food eaters. Like Sushi!

98% OF TEENS HAVE SMOKED POT, IF YOU ARE ONE ON THE 2% THAT HASENT, COPY THIS INTO YOUR SIGNATURE.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 12:54 PM

RMMC


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
The Reaver Cafe Cook Book?



"How Best to Process Mankind a new and exciting venture in how best to slice, dice, skin, marinate and dominate your food sources coming to a Reaver Reading Party near you!"

*****
RMMC

Okay...I just grossed myself out.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:09 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


Quote:

Originally posted by MarvlGrl:

BTW, absolutely LOVE the "I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark"...comedic gold.




I got it from someone else



BURMA!



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:15 PM

SIMONB


Quote:

Originally posted by 13:
Pax means 'peace' in Latin, I think.

Dunno why I said that...



Neither do I, but you're absolutely right. Tu es callidus!

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:16 PM

GUYWHOWANTSAFIREFLYOFHISOWN


my turn:

"Si vis Pacem, Para bellum "



http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/llama.php
-try it out, I dare you

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

I'm so into Firefly, my butt glows in the dark.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:18 PM

SIMONB


See - all the clever people watch Firefly.

The rest....well, leave them to their reality TV. They don't know any better....




cura ut valeas

- Shiny. Let's be bad guys.

That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 5:47 PM

JIGMAN


Well, nobody said reavers were stupid. Just wantonly feral and insane. They do know how to operate complex things like spaceships, after all, and make complex modifications to said ships. So I figued that maybe they carry tanks of pax aboard thier ships from Miranda, and whenever they take people alive the give 'em a concentrated dose of the stuff. If it doesn't work, let the torturing begin. If it does work, another reaver to the fold a la Bushwacked. At least that is my theory.

-------------------------------------------------
All good things must come to an end.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:10 PM

STILLFLYIN


On the topic of the Reaver population: We all need to keep in mind that a large number of Reavers were killed in the battle with the Alliance above Mr. Universe's planet. I personally think that most or virtually all of the reaver fleet was destroyed in the battle. Mal's trick to get the Alliance and Reavers to fight was brilliant because it served so many different purposes. 1st, it gives Serenity a diversion to slip past the blockade, 2nd it drew most of the Reavers in to a battle which he hoped they would lose, because when Serenity ran, Reavers had to chase them, it's their way, and 3rd it let Mal do a sizeable amount of hurt to the Alliance fleet, something he probably had been wanting to do for years.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:49 PM

PINBALLWIZARD


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Actually, reconsidering, it's possible that there will be some kind of tribal development. Though possibly along the lines of 'Honey, I ate the kids'.



That tribal idea seems to be the most plausable. We never see how Reavers interact with each other, weather they're mindless savages all-da-time, or if that's just their scare tactic. We know that they can rig bobby traps from parts they find lying around and know how to keep their ships going and even capable of rentering atmosphere, radiation leaks aside. That alone implies that there's inteligence behind those scared faces.

Maybe they feel like they've been forced into this position by the Aliance, seeing their fellow settlers on Miranda slowly die of the PAX helping to push them to the brink of insanity. If this was to be a model world, ideal and "better," does this genocide mean that the survivors have no place in "civilization?"

No, I am not insane, I am crazy. Thank you for asking.

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 8:24 PM

JOHNBOY


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I read a theory about this that they were fine around each other, but "normal" pheremones drove them mad. I don't think this is true either, because the guy in Bushwacked only started "functioning" properly after commiting violence, not to mention he never got hit with the PAX.
That's the only way I can see them making more of themselves; forcing normal people to watch until they went out of their minds. I was always stunned that they would even have the mental capacity for this. Hell, I'm stunned they can fly ships.



Hmmmm. Who can say if the Bushwacked guy got exposed to PAX? Neither our BDH's nor the Alliance crew had any reason to test for PAX, or even to suspect it's existence.

And maybe it's undetectable - the crew were testing the atmo on Miranda and found nothing - so that ship might have been drenched in PAX and no-one knew. Or, as already pointed out, PAX might bio-accumulate in tissue and be passed on when that poor sod was forced to eat reaver-flesh.

And (not meaning to pick on you...much) why do you assume that insanity=stupidity? Hannibal Lector was a human-flesh-eating loonie of the first order, but clearly the smartest person any of his victims ever met. Not to mention the last person they ever met....

Cheers,
Johnboy

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 9:02 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Do you know what radiation does to the brain? To any tissue? It's not just that they're savagely insane, it's that they literally take such horrible care of themselves that their functions would continue deteriorating.
Being a "human-flesh-eating loonie of the first order, but clearly the smartest person any of his victims ever met" is almost mild compared to Reavers. Someone like Hannibal could function in normal society, could pretend he wasn't a killer and a cannibal, Reavers cannot. They are driven by ferocity and the need to eat people. Ok, maybe they had the capacity to know that making some poor soul watch while they raped, butchered, and devoured people would hurt him, but in a different way. I just can't see torment of the soul being as appealing to them as torment of the body obviously is.
I don't assume that insanity=stupidity, but I'm hardly going to assume that we're talking about rational, reasoning, logical, thinking creatures here.
They obviously don't maintain their ships very well, because they leave trails of smoke in atmo and trails of radiation outside it. They don't care about anything other than being able to harm people as easily as possible. They don't really care if they live or die.
How do I know the Bushwacked victim wasn't dosed with PAX? Because as you said, it is undetectable. They wouldn't know what it was that made them what they were, they wouldn't know what was causing the problem, and they wouldn't be able to find out because they couldn't detect it. Even knowing from hearing it spoken of wouldn't do them any good because they couldn't reproduce it unless they knew what was in it. And I don't think they would gas potential victims with it, either, because they like their prey to be not only alive but kicking. And it obviously doesn't work instantly because the whole crew was on Miranda, breathing the air, but left before it effected them. It probably took weeks to sink in; weeks of most people getting more mellow and more apathetic and a few people becoming more and more aggressive. And they probably didn't become Reavers, actual Reavers, until after the rest of the people were dead or more people on the planet would have shown signs of being knawed on. It might have taken them months to really go savage.

**********************************

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Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:35 PM

JOHNBOY


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Do you know what radiation does to the brain? To any tissue?



Umm, nope, I don't. I also don't know what sort of radiation a person is exposed to when they are flying a ship without core containment. It's suicide, yep - gotta agree since Wash should know. But beyond that you're simply guessing as to it's effect on brain tissue.

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
It's not just that they're savagely insane, it's that they literally take such horrible care of themselves that their functions would continue deteriorating.



Well, lot's of societies practice self-mutilation. Even our own. All the flesh-slicing and metal-piercing we've seen are pretty revolting, but they don't seem to prevent reavers from running, leaping, gouging or biting fit, non-reaverised people. So the impairment is not more than skin-deep.

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Being a "human-flesh-eating loonie of the first order, but clearly the smartest person any of his victims ever met" is almost mild compared to Reavers. Someone like Hannibal could function in normal society, could pretend he wasn't a killer and a cannibal, Reavers cannot.



Yep. Gotta agree with all that. Every time we have seen a reaver they already have their blood-lust up, and they are pretty unreasonable people when they do.

Why do you have to assume that they *always* have their blood-lust up? It is just as valid to think of them as beserkers - somewhat unsettling when they are sitting around discussing poetry, but downright frightening when they decide that a fight is brewing.

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
They are driven by ferocity and the need to eat people. Ok, maybe they had the capacity to know that making some poor soul watch while they raped, butchered, and devoured people would hurt him, but in a different way. I just can't see torment of the soul being as appealing to them as torment of the body obviously is.
I don't assume that insanity=stupidity, but I'm hardly going to assume that we're talking about rational, reasoning, logical, thinking creatures here.



Well, see, this is where I disagree. They can fly and maintain ships, and navigate between planets. We have seen this. That requires a degree of rational, logical thought.

They have enough cunning to leave booby-traps behind them. That is not the work of mindless animals.

They can field a fleet of ships. They can coordinate those ships when attacking a colony, and even fight as a fleet against the Alliance.

They are not stupid. They are not unthinking.

They can't be, otherwise they would never have been able to leave Miranda in the first place.

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
They obviously don't maintain their ships very well, because they leave trails of smoke in atmo and trails of radiation outside it. They don't care about anything other than being able to harm people as easily as possible. They don't really care if they live or die.



Well, they represent only one tenth of one percent of their entire population. If this were our population, and we all had to take to ships, how many sailors and shipbuilders would we be able to muster?

Most of those ships are probably manned by people who were bankers, buskers and bellhops before the PAX, so they are doing pretty good considering they had to learn it all as they go along.

As for them existing *only* to hurt and eat people, well, simply untrue. If it were true then Firefly would have lasted about half-way through the pilot episode i.e. about the time the reaver ship sailed right past Serenity without giving them a second glance.

Well, at least not until much later.

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
How do I know the Bushwacked victim wasn't dosed with PAX? Because as you said, it is undetectable. They wouldn't know what it was that made them what they were, they wouldn't know what was causing the problem, and they wouldn't be able to find out because they couldn't detect it. Even knowing from hearing it spoken of wouldn't do them any good because they couldn't reproduce it unless they knew what was in it. And I don't think they would gas potential victims with it, either, because they like their prey to be not only alive but kicking. And it obviously doesn't work instantly because the whole crew was on Miranda, breathing the air, but left before it effected them. It probably took weeks to sink in; weeks of most people getting more mellow and more apathetic and a few people becoming more and more aggressive. And they probably didn't become Reavers, actual Reavers, until after the rest of the people were dead or more people on the planet would have shown signs of being knawed on. It might have taken them months to really go savage.



If Miranda was soaked in PAX then the Reaver ships are soaked in PAX - where do you think the air comes from? They don't pull it out of space, and they don't let any leak away once they are in space.

We have no idea how long you need to be exposed, except that it is longer than the time our hero's were on that ship, or on Miranda.

We don't know how much of it is needed to have an effect. We don't know it is the length of time exposed that is critical, or the actual dosage administered. We.don't.know.

Perhaps the residual amount on that ship turned that poor guy because he was exposed for a long time to a tiny, tiny amount, and that is what is required.

We don't know wether that poor guy in Bushwacked would have eventually recovered because, you know, Mal killed him.

You may be right. In everything. 100% correct.

Maybe you are, but just consider that what you are stating as fact is perhaps, you know, conjecture.

Cheers,
Johnboy

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