GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Favorite non-canon ship?

POSTED BY: ROMANCEGURU
UPDATED: Thursday, March 10, 2011 20:51
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Saturday, July 29, 2006 5:24 PM

ROMANCEGURU


There is a wide array of different ships sailing the ‘verse. Who is your favorite non-canon pair?

I am a Rayne shipper all the way. There are so many good reads floating about!


"It's a girl. Cute, too, but I don't think she's all there.
'Course, not all of her has to be..."

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:01 PM

SINDRA


Jaylee, all the way! Although Rayne isn't bad either. Actually... as long as it involves Jayne and it's not slash, I'll read it. LOL

But Jaylee is most definately my favorite ship. With my second favorite being Kaynara. :)

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Better'n seventy planets spinnin', and the meek have inherited not a one.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:06 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Heh, I'm a Mal/River fan myself.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:22 PM

ROMANCEGURU


I can handle a little Mal/River from time to time, but Jaylee for some reason I can’t stomach. I think it's because I am so loyal to River, I get jealous when I see Jayne paired with any one else. Maybe in due time? ; )


"I like smackin' 'em."

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:25 PM

NANITE1018


I have never even seen Mal/River. but then i haven't seen much. please give me suggestions on my "i need fanfic suggestions" thread.

the only non-canon ship fanfic i've read was a Rayne one. That was pretty good. and i don't think i could handle a Jaylee one, i mean Simon/Kaylee i love so much, i don't think i could get into another one.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:33 PM

ONEMANSHORT


I don't exactly know what non-canon means (I'm a bit slow in the brainpan). But from what other people have posted I take it to be a relationship that's not established in the show? Well the favorite of fanfics I've read is Jaylee. I like the whole idea of Simon wanting her to be superior and her letting him down and then going to Jayne because he's more ordinary. There's a really good one along these lines but I can't remember who wrote it...or what it was called (like I said...a bit slow in the brainpan) Rayne...or what I like to call it..Jiver I'm not such a fan of. I mean I'll read it, and some of it is written great, but since Jayne turned on River I just don't see it happening. It is sort of okay, because I can see her turning 18 and not wanting to follow Simon anymore, but she just loves him so much. Maybe it's vindictive of me but I prefer seeing River alone.



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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:45 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I just can't see Jayne commiting to anyone. I might be wrong, but he is not really that type; he'll hit on anything that has to X chromosomes. And he betrayed River; I can't see her being totally okay with that.
If there's any ship I can actually see Jayne in, it would be Jayne/Zoe. I love Wash! Don't hurt me! But now that he's... y'know... maybe there would be something down the line with Jayne. Zoe could keep him in check, they have a lot in common, he obviously thinks she's attractive on a lot of levels. I'm a fan of the idea.
But with River the only person I've ever been able to see (just from the crew) would be Mal. I think he would take care of her mental well-being and protect her, and she in turn could understand him in (really, think about it) a way no one else ever could. And also, she could protect him
And yes, OneManShort, it means a ship not established in the series. Not canon.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:52 PM

ONEMANSHORT


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I just can't see Jayne commiting to anyone. I might be wrong, but he is not really that type; he'll hit on anything that has to X chromosomes. And he betrayed River; I can't see her being totally okay with that.
If there's any ship I can actually see Jayne in, it would be Jayne/Zoe. I love Wash! Don't hurt me! But now that he's... y'know... maybe there would be something down the line with Jayne. Zoe could keep him in check, they have a lot in common, he obviously thinks she's attractive on a lot of levels. I'm a fan of the idea.
But with River the only person I've ever been able to see (just from the crew) would be Mal. I think he would take care of her mental well-being and protect her, and she in turn could understand him in (really, think about it) a way no one else ever could. And also, she could protect him
And yes, OneManShort, it means a ship not established in the series. Not canon.

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I do know what you mean...and I guess that is some of the attraction in him, just that he settles down with whoever he feels like but doesn't commit...or maybe it's his gorram sexy arms, I'm always getting those two confused. I've never read a Zoe/Jayne fanfic, I don't think they're quite as popular as some of the others. I like the idea as well, and they do have a bit in common, and in my view the best looking people on the ship, but I just can't let go of Wash. In some strange way I still believe he is alive and well. It makes me so sad to even think about him gone, maybe I'm just in denial.



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Saturday, July 29, 2006 6:56 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Well, no worries, dear! There's fic to fit all your wants and/or needs, including "Wash is alive!" fics and Zoe/Jayne fics (though it's true those aren't as popular). I'm even working on one of those, but the story won't flow. I know what I want to do in a basic outline, but can't come up with the story to fit it. But I think if Zoe and Jayne got pinned down somewhere, they'd find a certain connection. And, as you say, they would make a damn fine lookin' couple

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 7:05 PM

ONEMANSHORT


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Well, no worries, dear! There's fic to fit all your wants and/or needs, including "Wash is alive!" fics and Zoe/Jayne fics (though it's true those aren't as popular). I'm even working on one of those, but the story won't flow. I know what I want to do in a basic outline, but can't come up with the story to fit it. But I think if Zoe and Jayne got pinned down somewhere, they'd find a certain connection. And, as you say, they would make a damn fine lookin' couple


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That's quite the good idea, almost forcing them to come together. Unfortunately I don't quite have the writing bug like many of the talented people here. Nor the imagination. One thing I have to mention is that I'm not a big fan of the slash relationships, the only one that is even slightly realistic is Kaylee/Inara, but that's not exactly the sorta stuff I prefer to read, and honestly she works the best with Simon. The rest of the male characters just don't mesh, and there was never any indication of them being "sly"...I guess that doesn't mean they're not bi (Okay, that was a bad joke) Now I gotta go run off and find some "Wash is Alive" fanfics



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Saturday, July 29, 2006 7:08 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I've read a really cute River/Kaylee fic. I didn't totally buy it, but it was pretty good. Mostly, though, I don't buy them. I read a Simon/Jayne one that really made my brain hurt. Not only is it Jayne, but c'mon, he hates Simon.
Yeah, can't see those most of the time. But some people have amazing talent when it comes to working that kind of thing.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 7:15 PM

ONEMANSHORT


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I've read a really cute River/Kaylee fic. I didn't totally buy it, but it was pretty good. Mostly, though, I don't buy them. I read a Simon/Jayne one that really made my brain hurt. Not only is it Jayne, but c'mon, he hates Simon.
Yeah, can't see those most of the time. But some people have amazing talent when it comes to working that kind of thing.

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I can't argue with that, there are quite a few wonderful authors out there who seem to make a lot of relationships (almost) work using the right kind of imagination. I don't want to step on anyone's toes who does put time into their work and writes it well. But like you said, it's just a difficult thing to believe. Simon/Jayne? Scary to say the least.



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Saturday, July 29, 2006 7:58 PM

JOSSISAGOD


Any thing River/Kaylee/Inara, or any variation of those, I thought about adding Zoe in the mix but, since she married Wash it just seems like cheating!

JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

Self appointed Forsaken! Been on the list for a while now!

"Look at me, I'm STUPID!" The Doctor.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 9:12 PM

ARCADIA


I have't really read any fic featuring them, but I could see Zoe and Jayne as a couple... for a while, anyway.

Lately, I've had a strang urge to read fics where River, Kaylee, and/or Inara hook-up (in any variations). Knowing Joss, it wouldn't be all too surprising if one of these pairing did happen somewhere along the line, and it would have been find with me.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 10:59 PM

SPACEANJL


Am I allowed to have an opinion on this? 'Cos I write my own favourite

Seriously - don't see Rayne. Age and background on both sides. Jayne likes feisty, carnal sort of women (see shooting script notes Jaynestown) He don't go chasin' children, ain't a freak. I can see River falling for a handsome rogue with a tragic war-hero past, though...And I wouldn't say that was non-canon either. Last scene of the BDM, there's something brewing there. So I'm with PR on that one... Jaylee, likewise, no. Kaylee probably grew up round men like Jayne; they aren't a new experience, and those two people were on the boat together for near eighteen months before the Doctor came on board. He might have a little crush on her, but I can't see her noticing him that way. It's Simon's class and looks and charm she likes (daft cow, but hey... )

Zoe and Jayne - it was Wash's fun side she was drawn to (and he must have been an animal in the sack, ladies ) I don't see her as opening up to anyone else for a long time. And Jayne is far too different. I think he has a sweet side, and he's not afraid of strong women, but I can't see those two as a couple.

Not going near the slash. A bickering enmity that is so old it becomes a kind of friendship, yes. Jayne has a brother - Simon isn't used to that kind of relationship, he's only got li'l crazyboots. And I think Mal was an only child; he's used to commanding men, rather than having too many friends. Those three together have a dynamic part Marx brothers, part Lethal Weapon. But I think there is a certain element of 'he might be an idiot, but he's our idiot' on all sides.

The femslash - don't get it, I'm afraid. I would like to like Inara, but...alien.

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Saturday, July 29, 2006 11:06 PM

LUCASHARPER


Jaylee

Mal/River

Then possibly Rayne

www.guyandpenguin.com

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:12 AM

AGENTROUKA


Almost anything involving Inara.

Inara/Kaylee
Inara/Simon
Inara/River
Inara/Saffron
Inara/Nandi
Inara/Jayne

Any of those and more. I love how it explores different angles of her character, not to mention Inara/Kaylee is just about the most harmoniously sexy thing I can imagine.

Not involving Inara, it would probably be...

Any kind of girlslash.

Simon/River, while kinky, has some really fascinating possibilities, as does Zoe/Jayne.



Kaylee/Jayne leaves me as untouched as Simon/Kaylee. Same with boy slash.

Most Mal/not-Inara I find very hard to believe, especially Mal/River or Mal/Kaylee. Those turn my stomach.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:16 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


But... Simon and River doesn't turn your stomach? That kinda turned my stomach...

I think that, long-term, a Mal/Inara relationship wouldn't work, which is why I can easily see him with River, or possibly Kaylee.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:25 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
But... Simon and River doesn't turn your stomach? That kinda turned my stomach...

I think that, long-term, a mal/Inara relationship wouldn't work, which is why I can easily see him with River, or possibly Kaylee.




Seems strange, doesn't it? *g*

With Simon and River it's purely a thing based on their closer-than-normal sibling relationship. And I'm definitely not saying it would be a healthy happy thing. It's just an interesting angle.

Biological incest (while most definitely not a kink of mine!) freaks me out less than the status/age/experience differences I see with Mal/Kaylee and Mal/River.

If you will, Mal/Kaylee and Mal/River reminds me of daddy/daughter incest, which is far more icky than brother/sister incest because the latter involves two people of more of less equal status.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:30 AM

SPACEANJL


Turns mine.

The M/R crept up on me while I was watching. I think any normal female would have a crush on Mal (I mean, he is So.Very.Pretty. That smile, those eyes, and that butt...) Plus there is the wounded war-hero thing.

Mal likes graceful dancer-types. And I don't think he's a man to share. I can see him being mighty protective of his li'l pilot, and still thinking it's merely a Captain-y thing.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:31 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by AgentRouka:
Biological incest (while most definitely not a kink of mine!) freaks me out less than the status/age/experience differences I see with Mal/Kaylee and Mal/River.

If you will, Mal/Kaylee and Mal/River reminds me of daddy/daughter incest, which is far more icky than brother/sister incest because the latter involves two people of more of less equal status.


That's an... interesting take, I have to say. Makes a certain creepy sense.
In terms of an age difference, though, Mal is a bit older than Inara. Maybe not more "experienced" per se, but he looks older and acts older and just is older. Part of this is the fact that Morena is pretty young, of course; certainly younger than Nathan.
Honestly, Mal/Inara leaves me really cold. It just isn't interesting; I can't care. I can't put my finger on exactly why, even.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:40 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:

That's an... interesting take, I have to say. Makes a certain creepy sense.
In terms of an age difference, though, Mal is a bit older than Inara. Maybe not more "experienced" per se, but he looks older and acts older and just is older. Part of this is the fact that Morena is pretty young, of course; certainly younger than Nathan.



Morena's age is not necessarily Inara's, of course. And something along the lines of 4, maybe 5 years isn't quite the 10 and 15 that he has on Kaylee and River, respectively.

Inara is fairly equal to Mal, both in terms of "age category" and maturity and experience (not just sexual, I mean), which is one of the reasons I enjoy the pairing.

Quote:

Honestly, Mal/Inara leaves me really cold. It just isn't interesting; I can't care. I can't put my finger on exactly why, even.



Which is why it's good that there's something out there for every kind of taste. *g*

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:41 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:

Mal likes graceful dancer-types.




He does? :)

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:44 AM

SPACEANJL


Inara is designed that way. Every man is supposed to go *drool*. She's far more interesting when she's not 'working'.

I can see Mal looking on Kaylee as a younger sister - he calls her mei-mei - and she clearly has a non-romantic but loving relationship with him.

The Simon/River thing could work if you went at it like 'Les Enfants Terribles', which I think was Cocteau. Deeply creepy tale of sibling obsession. Still


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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:50 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Well, even 10 or 15 year age difference isn't that bad. You can barely be a parent at age 15, and then only if you're a bit of a dumbass.

When does Mal call Kaylee mei-mei?

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:58 AM

SPACEANJL


Er.... I can see the scene, but can't remember which episode it was. I will look it up...I think it's in the pilot episode.

The age thing isn't an issue for me - I'm a GSR fan elsewhere. And I think I recommended the Laurie King books - that central relationship has something like a 40 year gap, but it works, because there's an equality of minds. That's the key for River, I think.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:04 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Well, even 10 or 15 year age difference isn't that bad. You can barely be a parent at age 15, and then only if you're a bit of a dumbass.



Still, the younger in age both people are, the more significant are those 10, 15 years. Especially the 15. River is 16 when she comes aboard and 17 in the movie. Genius or not, compared to Mal's 32, that's quite a world of difference, especially considering Mal's paternal, mature personality. He's not exactly a boyish man, most of the time.
Similarly with Kaylee, who's sexually mature, but very childlike and young at heart.

I'm not saying everyone has to see it that way. Just that it's a big sticking point for me, that prevents me from viewing their relationships in a shippy light. :)

Quote:


When does Mal call Kaylee mei-mei?




In the pilot episode, during their talk in the infirmary.

"Don't go working too hard on that crush, xiao mei-mei. Doc won't be with us for long."

Hope that helps!

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:05 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I can remember Inara calling Kaylee mei-mei when she says "Mei-mei you have to focus" after Kaylee gets shot, but I cannot think of any place where anyone else calls her mei-mei. I can't think of any other place anyone but Simon uses the term, in fact.
*edit* OK, nevermind. I'll have to check that scene again.
I'm actually not a big Mal/Kaylee shipper, but I'm a sucker for Mal/River. River is young, but she's hardly still a kid after everything she's been through. Plus, y'know, she's not gonna be that young forever; people do age
My favorite Mal/River story is TheIrishCowgirl's "Serenity Now" series; River is 20 by then, I think, and Inara has once again left the ship after trying to make it work with Mal. It's the story that really got me hooked.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:13 AM

SPACEANJL


I think Mal could be brought back from the brink. There's a sense of humour there - maybe trying to look after someone might release a bit of that tension.

I don't see that River having a crush on Mal violates any canon, really. Going by the general age of ficcers relative to the pairings they write, I would say it was a natural thing. Then, I'm a cynical old bag...


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Sunday, July 30, 2006 2:24 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:

I don't see that River having a crush on Mal violates any canon, really.



I can easily see her having a crush on Mal. *g* He's her hero, he's handsome and safe.

It's the reciprocation I have trouble buying.

But overall, I prefer the aspect of their relationship that's purely spiritual. The way they are two very similar people struggling with the task of reinventing themselves.

Quote:

Going by the general age of ficcers relative to the pairings they write, I would say it was a natural thing. Then, I'm a cynical old bag...



I guess there we hit the difference between fiction and real life. *g*

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:03 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Rayne, followed closely by Mal/River. I like these two pairings because they seem semi-plausible to me. A lot of the other non-canon pairings I just don't see happening.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:18 AM

SPACEANJL


I wish someone would explain Rayne to me.

I see a lot of teenage girls projecting a wish-fulfilment fantasy, which is fine, but I never get a sense of WHY those two CHARACTERS. Jayne is a grown man, and I really don't see him liking little girls, given the (admittedly limited) female interaction we see him have in the series. I also don't see why River would fall for him - he's a big, nasty thug who attempted to sell her out, for whatever reason. I can see her tormenting him, as another big brother type, but I never saw any chemistry there.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:40 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I don't get Rayne either. I've read only one fic that I sorta bought into, but mostly I don't get it. As you said, thug who attempted to sell her out. Don't get that.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 3:47 AM

SPACEANJL


A cute thug, mind I just think you have to be a bit older to...appreciate his finer points.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:02 AM

XEYRA


I have read a few different non-canon shippy fics; I try to keep an open mind and give everything a try, though I may not exactly enjoy it for many reasons, usually the way these non-canon relationships are portrayed or the way some character is written, their characterization seeming somewhat off to me. I guess I usually stick to canon for some reason, because I like Mal/Inara, and Simon/Kaylee and Zoe/Wash and Jayne... well... Jayne with Vera. LOL.

I do have a guilty pleasure, which is Mal/River, one of the few non-canon pairings I like mostly because I've had the fortune of reading a few multi-chaptered stories that actually work into establishing a background for their relationship. And because I found authors who write shorter pieces and vignettes with such lyrical quality that it makes me believe those two could have a relationship. Besides, Mal and River look good together, much like Mal and Inara do. Both graceful women, with almost etheral beauty. And our captain is a hot-muffin (yes, fangirlish moment here, let me squee a bit... there...).

Admitedly, it's a difficult pairing to pull off, because of the whole age difference (though why do Rayne shippers forget the age difference when it comes to Jayne? He's supposedly even older than Mal) and father/daughter perspective. Though, post-movie, this pairings seems to have become rather popular and there are seeds of believability in there, mostly because we actually see some great interaction between these two. :)

Someone recommended Serenity Now as a good Mal/River series. I agree, though, I think it was in Part 3, there was a situation involving nightmare manipulations that rang truly false to me when it came to River's character, so I became a little skeptic after that.

I also don't understand River/Jayne, though I've been reading an interesting story on Fanfiction.net, called Angel (I forgot the author), that has an interesting set-up and is slowly evolving into that pairing. My problem with most Rayne stories tends to be with River's characterization or with the way Simon is treated in them, but if you can point me out to some good ones, I'll give them a try, even if sometimes what one enjoys someone else will not (like Next of Kin, which I know most Rayne shippers think is incredible, and it is very well-written, but I have a problem with River's characterization in the chapters I have read, so I gave up on it).

I can't quite see Jayne and River together, though, due to many of the reasons pointed above. I love Jayne, I really do, but I prefer him paired off to a well-written, rounded original female (like in SpaceAngl's incredible series) than with anyone in the crew. He did have a crush on Kaylee, Joss says so in the commentary to the pilot episode, but I don't see Kaylee falling for him.

As for River, well, I would love to see some fics where their friendship might be explored, but romance? Jayne might like the idea of River as a weapon, but I doubt he'd go past the crazy thing, even if River should be better post-movie (not to mention how bad to his pride having been knocked out by a 90-pound girl twice!). And I don't see River falling for Jayne. I see her with a character that is more of a match to her, intellectually and emotionally, with whom she shares an understanding, a bond (which is why I like Kyo in GeekUSA's series, for example, and the idea of Mal/River).

But that's just me.

I also read an interesting multi-chaptered slashy fic once, post-Serenity, where Wash survived but was very traumatized, and since Zoe couldn't quite accept him, he got involved with a couple of other crew-members of the male sex. I don't usually believe in Firefly slash (though I am a fan of certain slash pairings in other fandoms, so I have nothing against slash), but this one proved to be very well-written. Just can't remember the title, but I think it was one of the stories nominated for the Strawberries Awards? *unsure look*

Mostly, I'm a canon shipper, though I don't read everything in my preferred ships, because some stories simply don't interest me much. I prefer a long, involved story, especially when it comes to non-canon shipping, because it allows for a much better means to make such non-canon ship believable, since the author has more time to explore the idea, the transition. I like vignettes when they're well-written, but I shy away from Plot?What Plot? stories, not because NC-17 squicks me, but because I like reading about the characters, not how they have sex. Even if it's hot sex... ;)

I would like to see in a fic a bit of a triangle between Mal, River and Inara that didn't ignore the Companion or get her out of the ship or somesuch. I'd just like Mal to feel divided, because he would love them both. I've only read one that kind of explores this and I don't know where I found it, but it had an understanding Inara and a River who went away to the Companion Training House for a year so she could "be sure" she wanted to be with Mal. Ack, why don't I remember the titles of these things?

Anyways, this post is getting huge!!!!! Shutting up now.



"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:10 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


I have the very inkling beginnings of a triangle in my tiny little drabble; Mal being torn and all that. Because I do think it would mess with him a little.
Gorrammit I need to work these things into an actual story! I used to be so good at letting a story flow! Where did my abilities go???
Yeah, "Nightmares" was not the best "Serenity Now" story. I hope she keeps writing, though; I haven't seen anythng new for weeks and weeks! *grinds teeth*
I can't remember exactly what little story kind of addressed issues with Rayne. I mentioned it in the thread I started over in Blue Sun by the name of "convince me" which is an excellent place to find shippy recomendations.
I agree with you on "Next of Kin" BTW; could not read it. Didn't even get to the Rayne part before I stopped. I just thought it wasn't very well done.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:34 AM

SPACEANJL


PR, I think we might have the same triangle in mind... I think it will mess with him a lot. I have a follow-up to 'Zen...' in the plotting stage, with that very idea in mind, timelined after my crossover piece, just to let you know I'm not poaching.

And Xeyra - thanks for the props. I'm having fun writing the stuff, I'm just glad people like it.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:40 AM

XEYRA


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
PR, I think we might have the same triangle in mind... I think it will mess with him a lot. I have a follow-up to 'Zen...' in the plotting stage, with that very idea in mind, timelined after my crossover piece, just to let you know I'm not poaching.

And Xeyra - thanks for the props. I'm having fun writing the stuff, I'm just glad people like it.


Yes, I really do love your series (and the little triangle in the works, too, of which we see some inkling of in the latter two stories), but I have been really bad at giving you feedback. Must correct that and soon. I do love the way you write and the characterizations and your dialogue and the way you handle the relationships.



"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 5:51 AM

ARCADIA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
River is young, but she's hardly still a kid after everything she's been through.



I see it differently. While River has certainly gained wisdom because of everything she's been through, I think her maturity has actually been stunted (if that makes sense). She has the intellegence and wisdom of someone beyong her years, but her experience with people, especially in a romantic sense, is far, far behind. She still has a childishness to her, the way she talks sometimes. Somtimes she's the psychic, sometimes the teenager, sometimes the genius, and sometimes the barely fourteen year old girl who had her childhood snatched away.

That's why I find most River romances -- especially with Jayne or Mal -- so hard to swallow. River has a lot that she needs to go through before she's going to initiate a romance with anyone (and in 99% of these fics that I've read, which is admittedly not so many, River is always the one going, "hmm... I have a crush on Jayne, I should sleep with him...").

[center]
Arcadia
aka Greyfable and/or Katie


like the avatar? there are more. grab one here: http://snipurl.com/syt0. Happy Summer of Serenity!
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.
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Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:10 AM

SPACEANJL


That's why I'm interested in writing her. And that's the fun of writing the whole ensemble. You can see so many different angles, from established relationships, fledgling romances, to the awkward messes. And River has experience of all of that, but at second hand. How do you lie to a psychic?

Developing a crush would be a natural reaction at her age.

It's what happens next that gets interesting.

And this is Joss - who can predict what that man may have done with his characters?


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Sunday, July 30, 2006 6:54 AM

SINDRA


Wow! This thread is giving me so many ideas for new fanfic pairings to go read. I was feeling stuck in a rut a bit, 'cause all I was reading was Jaylee.

The series that hooked me on Jaylee was the "Measure of a Jayne" story arc by Itsawash. LOVED IT!!!

I think I'm really intrigued now by Mal/River and Jayne/Zoe. I'll have to find some of that to read.

As far as age differences, I honestly don't think about that sort of thing while I'm reading. It's fiction, I can let my mind wander out of the boudaries of what's "accepted" or "normal".

Oh and as for Jayne not being committed to one woman, that's why I like the fics that are mostly one-shot or a few chapters. Each time they end in either kids or marriage, I can't help but roll my eyes.

Maybe this is the thread to post this question: What the heck does OTP stand for? I see it mostly in icons over at Livejournal in relation to cannon pairs. It's driving me nuts.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Better'n seventy planets spinnin', and the meek have inherited not a one.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:13 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:

Originally posted by Sindra:
Maybe this is the thread to post this question: What the heck does OTP stand for? I see it mostly in icons over at Livejournal in relation to cannon pairs. It's driving me nuts.



One True Pairing. :)

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 7:23 AM

SPACEANJL


I know what you mean about the marriage/babies thing. I started my fic out with the intention of just an 'adult relationship' - then Jayne developed his own ideas, and he's mighty stubborn.

“I’ve no objection to living in sin, but my man’s...insistent.”

 
“Not having you leaving me, first fancy planet we get to.” Jayne grumbles comfortably. “You’re my woman, an’ I’m keepin’ you.”

But the whole spacespawn thing freaks me out.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 9:00 AM

SINDRA


Thank you SO much, AgentRouka! Now I can sleep tonight. LOL Everytime I saw it my mind kept processin' Harry Potter. (OTP: Order Of the Phoenix)

And Spaceanjl, I think I'll go take a look at your fics. Seems you have a pretty good handle on writing the man of my dreams.

The married Jayne thing doesn't bother me so much IF it's done the right way. But I'm with ya' on the "spacespawn" thing all the way!!!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
Better'n seventy planets spinnin', and the meek have inherited not a one.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:13 AM

MRSU


My favorite non-canon ship is Simon/Inara, followed by Mal/River (with Inara gone where would Mal turn then, eh? :)).

I guess it is because I can't see Mal/Inara or Simon/Kaylee working long term: those couples have so much trouble communicating with each other, and I usually see in the real life that those communication problems don't dissappear magically when couples start having sex, it might even get worse. I see them having passionate, rocky, tormenting relationships with eventual break-ups.

On the other hand, Simon and Inara are so natural and honest with each other, they see and accept and admire each other for what they are. They have couple of sweet moments in the show and I was suprised to see even more moments in the original shooting scripts (Bushwacked, Jamestown and a small bit in the pilot) and in "Dead or Alive" which clearly showed that there was some intrigue planned between Kaylee, Inara and Simon. If the show continued longer - who knows? (Original scripts are here: http://www.whedonsworld.com/fireflys1summary.html).

My favorite moment between them is in HoG, when Simon finally delivers a baby and looks so happy - the happiest in the whole show, and Inara gives him a sweetest look she gave for anyone in the show. It's the moment of truth, when she can see the real him: following his vocation, doing what he's supposed to do in life. Sadly, Kaylee never gets such a chance in the show: Simon and Kaylee mostly pose before each other.

Now to Mal and River: they are kindred spirits in a way, both suffering and lost, but strangely I see River as the strongest here, helping Mal to find a way out of the woods. In a way she's much older than her years, even though in some ways she's still girlish. And she has light inside, despite everything that happens, light which was lost in Mal. I can see them/read about them as friends, with platonic relationship, just as fine.

Simon/River seems really icky for me. They already have the best relationship on the show: angsty and beautiful enough without having to throw sex in it. Why change the thing which is good already?

Jayne/River also doesn't work for me: from what we've seen from the show she gets annoyed with him even more than Simon. Remember that knife slashing? She went not just for the Blue Sun logo but for Jayne too, after he was especially obnoxious with Simon.

Jayne/Kaylee? Never wanted to read such a fic but it might work for me. Jayne changes a lot in the series: he has the best character arc in a way. He's very different person after Ariel and friendship with Book. The new Jayne might look better in Kaylee's eyes... And I don't think he's older than Mal: he looks younger, like early 30s.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 10:26 AM

SPACEANJL


Quote:

.Jayne changes a lot in the series: he has the best character arc in a way. He's very different person after Ariel and friendship with Book. The new Jayne might look better in Kaylee's eyes... And I don't think he's older than Mal: he looks younger, like early 30s...


That, my friend, is the glory of the fabulously well-preserved Adam B. Forty-plus and F***able. But then I have an obsession.

Simon is too young for Inara. I think he needs Kaylee - honesty and warmth. Inara is too much the old life.

But I think you got Mal and River right on.

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:13 AM

MRSU


Quote:

Originally posted by SpaceAnJL:
Simon is too young for Inara. I think he needs Kaylee - honesty and warmth. Inara is too much the old life.



Heh - Inara doesn't look old. :) That's the problem - I don't know the actual ages of actors or their characters, I just react to what I see on-screen. And on-screen Jayne looks younger than on-screen Mal, who looks like late-thirties to me. So Adam is 40+? Vow! :)
And Inara looks MUCH younger than Mal: she looks like mid-to-late-twenties and I don't know how old she's supposed to be but that's how she looks. And Simon is spiritually older than his years, after all he's been through and responsibilities that are on him. So I don't see age difference between him and Inara as an issue. But it's just me. :)

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 11:42 AM

XEYRA


Quote:

Originally posted by MRSU:
Now to Mal and River: they are kindred spirits in a way, both suffering and lost, but strangely I see River as the strongest here, helping Mal to find a way out of the woods. In a way she's much older than her years, even though in some ways she's still girlish. And she has light inside, despite everything that happens, light which was lost in Mal. I can see them/read about them as friends, with platonic relationship, just as fine.


I like to think of River as Mal's lost hope and innocence, and Mal as River's rock, whether you look at it through a father/daughter or romantic angle.

I loved River's relationship with Mal in the Red Run fanfic, which is sadly now gone from this site, because it was such an interesting one even though it didn't have an inkling of romance in it. I just love their dynamic together. Then again, I came to Firefly through the movie, where they interacted a whole lot more there than in the series. But what interactions they did have in the series were all very telling of the bond that might grow between them, whether you see it through a friendship or romantic perspective.



"People tell you things all the time, without talking. The way they move, the way they aren't talking." - River Tam

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:02 PM

ROMANCEGURU



I was like you, Jayne & River as a couple was the furthest thing on my mind after I watched Firefly & the BDM. That all changed when I read this series. Little Moments by Michmak http://www.fanfiction.net/u/234521/ If you decide to read, start with Expert.

If you watch the series closely, you can see that while Jayne is fearful of River, she does not seem to be afraid of him. For instance, in Ariel when they get back she is smiling at him, even though she knows what he attempted to do. In Objects, when she is walking through the ship she reads his apologetic thoughts. There is also the create of apples he bought showing he can see the error of his way and reform little by little. : ) I now notice a multitude of scenes where she is gazing at him. It may not be a crush, but she does not find Jayne threatening.

In the BDM I think Jayne really grows by the end by doing something “right”. Making him in the end not so “nasty” .

As for Jayne’s possible attraction to River, check my sig below. It’s not like she is unattractive. I also have a feeling him seeing her as a killer machine softens the “little girl” stigma just a little.

Towards the end of the Serenity she say’s “I’m all right”, thus showing us she is on the path to being a little less ‘crazy’ .

Here are a couple fan-vids that narrate the ship and show the Rayne moments from the series.

Behind Blue Eyes:



The Girl Of My Dreams Is Giving Me Nightmares:



Firefly They All Fall Down:



Things in common:

-Both excellent fighters

-Both ‘probably’ have never had a real romantic relationship.

-Both childlike and immature to an extent.

-Both have a darkness (murder can do that to a person)

-Both were probably trouble maker children.

Things that work in there favor:

-Opposites attract. Look at all
canon couples aboard the ship for an example! In addition, I believe he has a track record for the like in his other shows. Buffy/Spike & Angel/Cordelia

-Joss has them interact a lot through the series and movie.

-River doesn’t need anyone intellectually challenging (since there really isn’t anyone on her level anyway) She needs someone to make her feel real and normal, to ground her.

-Most fictions start when she is 18 + perfectly legal.

1) The Attraction of Opposites Source: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22679&m=350480#350480

“Most romantic writing has at least some of this archetype in it, even if it’s not the principal theme (including script writing, just think Angel and Buffy, or Rachel and Ross). Classic romance writing draws heavily on it, increasing the attraction of the main characters by making them different, mentally and physically. He’s tall, dark, tanned, experienced, hardened by life, older, with hard muscles – she’s short, blonde, pale, innocent, naive, young and very soft - to show an obvious example. The more different, the more attraction – pure physics. Emphasis is put on the difficulty of understanding the other, fascination of the unknown and a lot of fighting to keep up the energy. An “Attraction of Opposites”-couple is often very passionate and fights rather than talk things out (Buffy and Spike anyone?).
Ron and Hermione are an obvious choice for this type of scenario. The canon characters are always bickering and there certainly seems to be some difficulty for the two to understand each other, especially when it comes to feelings and such. They are very different, both physically and mentally: Ron is tall, Hermione’s not (there’s nothing in canon to indicate that she’d be particularly short, but she’s not described as “tall” at least). Ron’s very into Quidditch, Hermione’s a book worm. Ron has six brothers and sisters, Hermione’s an only child. Ron’s hot-headed, Hermione’s logical and cool. Ron’s a bit reckless, Hermione thinks before she does something, and so on. Fanon tends to enhance these differences, making Ron into more of a jock and Hermione into more of a mental genious than they are in canon. Fanon-Hermione also tends to be very short, and very soft and curvy to underline her femininity, whereas fanon-Ron tends to grow quite a bit of muscle.”


There are so many reasons why I find the pairings works, and there are lot of fan-fictions out there that use them as a tool to make the story plausible. I think half the fun of the pair is that it’s so wrong it’s right!

Hopefully I answered your question. (most likely left out a lot) I understand that Rayne is not for everyone. ; )





"It's a girl. Cute, too, but I don't think she's all there.
'Course, not all of her has to be..."

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Sunday, July 30, 2006 1:43 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


God I hate when people do these pairings. Just wrong.

If I'm a bitch, then life just got interesting

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