Male Female Imponderables-R.E.S.P.E.C.T. by msg

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Male Female Imponderables-R.E.S.P.E.C.T.

POSTED BY: MSG
UPDATED: Monday, August 28, 2006 09:54
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Monday, August 28, 2006 6:15 AM

NV- You'll be fine:) I think that kind of depth of thought and purpose is great and as for the mate finding...You seem to be doing fine:)

Appologies: I think it's always good to offer them if you are sincere. There's no way it would do more harm than good. At the first moment it might not be acceptad, but later the person will feel better knowing at least you cared enough to recognize and appologize.

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, August 28, 2006 6:23 AM

TRISTAN

Morning, CK!
Morning, Goat!

Goat, I feel for you. I know where you are coming from. I have never had anyone try to intentionally push my buttons; it just sorta happened by mistake. I thought I could handle what happened, but it turns out I couldn't. I know it's a moot point now, but talking to each other would have been very important. No, I take that back, understanding each other would have been important. You can talk to someone 'til you're blue in the face, but if there is no understanding, nothing can be accomplished.
Not sure when an apology does more harm...I don't think I have come across that particular imponderable in my life. Might require some cogitatin'
I think the brain should be the first thing engaged in a relationship. I am a romantic with a logical bend. I believe in "heart" love, but I believe that "brain" love is stronger and lasts longer. The heart is a fickle organ, no matter what people may tell you; the brain/mind/whatever you want to call it makes for a much stronger love. It allows you to love someone no matter what else is happening; through sickness and health, etc.

Heart love I compare to lust...it burns bright and hot for a period of time, then dies down. If there is nothing to take it's place, love dies.
Sorry for that...hope it makes sense...

NVG, that is a burden I would proudly take on. Unfortunately, I do not have any skills passed down from my family for 1,000 years. You are a lucky man to have that knowledge, and I know you will find a suitable apprentice.

______________________________________

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Monday, August 28, 2006 7:14 AM

ZEEK

Quote:
Originally posted by msg:
Oh on a school related theme: What do you consider the most essential skill for students of both genders to learn?

I'd go with patience. So many problems that come up in life can be solved or avoided by just having a little patience.

Could just be my own personality speaking though. Since I'm a really patient person.

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Monday, August 28, 2006 7:19 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

I don't think it's about skill so much as a willingness to learn. I've seen brilliant students fritter away classes because they just couldn't be bothered with the subjects, and I've seen students with a total blind spot when it comes to technology achieve their ECDL (ICDL) through slogging and sheer determination.

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Monday, August 28, 2006 7:33 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.

An apology only does more harm than good if it is insincere. And by insincere, I mean empty words. If you apologize to someone, it should be because you want to make something right with them.
My ex's "apology" is a good example of this. He didn't want to actually talk to me, didn't want to make amends, didn't really want my trust back, didn't truly want to take the first steps towards maybe becoming my friend again, didn't want to have to put any work into it, in other words. And I'll tell you that I cried longer and harder over that fact than I did over the initial breakup. I didn't think it was possible, but I felt more lied to and more betrayed knowing that he would say "oh I really wish this had gone differently and I'm sorry" without anything real behind it. That's why that article spoke to me so much, because it pointed out exactly what was wrong with that kind of weak-ass apology. It would take a very, very long time to go into all the details as to why it hurt so bad, so I won't because I don't want to bore everyone and it's already past my bedtime.

What I think everyone should learn in school is true skill, particularly at language. That ties in with communication, I suppose. It just seems lie, far too often, you learn enough to get you through school but not anything else and it's rather superficial learning, rather than in-depth. Much as it annoyed me at times, drilling is the key. And often those things that should be drilled are not and those that don't need to be drilled as much get star treatment. Just my take.
Maybe I'm just in love with English and feel it should get a lot more respect than it gets.
Brain fuzzy. Did I miss something? It feels like I missed something...

Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace. - Gautama Siddharta

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Monday, August 28, 2006 7:45 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Yeah, you missed my brain oozing out my ear, (brain fart will do that).

Sincere apology seems like a lost concept. Most folks I hear apologizing seem to be doing so because of social pressure, not sincerity.

Quick rundown of last weeks events. Most details are dulled as not reveal TMI.

Cluster F!

An illicit substance was brought to the house with "good intentions". We'll call it "Painkiller Green". Then some illicit items overlooked by the police during the execution of my sister warrant are found.
I unloaded on everyone. They got both barrels plus the sidearm.
Here's the problem. No one was telling me what was going on and no one listens. So now they know to fill me in. and they defiately know to heed my warnings. All of the crap happened within one hour of me getting home.
Just gettin' tired of the copunding problems my family creates, leaving me to deal with.

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Monday, August 28, 2006 7:56 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

*hugs NVG* That sounds like a big scary pile of unfun.

On the plus side I have a brainfart smilie for you, which may come in useful. Not mine, robbed it from another forum a while back :)

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Monday, August 28, 2006 8:02 AM

MSG

HUGS NV Sometimes I wish family vacation meant a vacation from your family:)

WEll my day has improved. Turns out they accidentally gave me 2 advisory classes scheduled at the same period so that's why my advisory was so freakin huge this morning:) Mystery solved

PR-BIG HUGS:)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, August 28, 2006 8:09 AM

PONYXPRESSINC

On one memorable occasion, I went to see the manager of a department of the factory I worked at in the HR department because he needed a new member of staff and it was my job to do the interviews.

I asked him to give me an idea of the kind of person he wanted for the job.

Him - "Well I really need it to be a man."

Me (Puzzled) - "Why?"

Him - "Because they will need to use hand tools (allen keys, screw drivers and the like) and a man is more likely to have experience."

Me - "I can use hand tools, I do it all the time"

Him - *condescending look*

Me - "I know the work you do in this department, I could do it so I can't see why you couldn't teach a male or female to do it."

Him - *patronising tone of voice* "You couldn't do this work."

Me - *Smacks him upside the head* (I didn't really but I wanted to) I gave him a lecture about equal opportunities legislation and wandered of disheartened. He got a man, because a man happened to be the best one for the job, which was irritating.

I have also had co-workers dismiss/ignore/condescend to me because of:

1. My taste in music/books/TV
2. My clothes/hair/jewelry
3. The fact that I didn't find it shocking that a gay character in Eastenders kissed his boyfriend on the cheek. (That was a fun couple of weeks, they would not let it drop).

None of this stuff was particularly serious and didn't get in my way as such, so I found thinking "nuts to you" and just getting on with it mostly worked. I'm self-employed now so I console myself with the thought that I only have to deal with people short term anyway.

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Monday, August 28, 2006 8:19 AM

DESKTOPHIPPIE

Quote:
Originally posted by PonyXpressInc:
I have also had co-workers dismiss/ignore/condescend to me because of:

1. My taste in music/books/TV
2. My clothes/hair/jewelry
3. The fact that I didn't find it shocking that a gay character in Eastenders kissed his boyfriend on the cheek. (That was a fun couple of weeks, they would not let it drop).

None of this stuff was particularly serious and didn't get in my way as such, so I found thinking "nuts to you" and just getting on with it mostly worked. I'm self-employed now so I console myself with the thought that I only have to deal with people short term anyway.

I've had some of that too, although for the last one it usually goes like this.

Other Person: "Did you see Eastenders last night?"
Me: "No."
Other Person: "Oh that's right. You only watch weird TV shows!"
Me: (having long ago given up on that score) "Yup!"
Other Person: "Well it was really great because Shellie has been-"
Me: "I have no idea who that is and I don't care."
Other Person: "Oh, Shellie is the barmaid who used to-"
Me: "Um... I did mention that I don't care, right?"
Other Person: (rolling her eyes)"I know, I know, you don't watch it. But you should have seen it! Shellie went and told..." (witters on for next half an hour.)

On the gender at work thing, I was told pretty much up front that I would never be promoted to any specialised IT position because of my gender. The reason given was that because maternity leave is mandetory in Ireland, the IT manager would never want to risk having to hire a contractor for a few months if I ever had a child. Yes, I was told this. Off the record, but I was told this. One of the very many reasons that I, too, am now self employed :)

More animations available at http://desktophippie.googlepages.com

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Monday, August 28, 2006 8:37 AM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE

Hmm. These types of stories do make me glad that although I'm in the small minority of women in my industry (about 10% or so), at least that number is growing, and we are a fiesty bunch. Managers with any sort of overt "you won't get this job/promotion because you're a woman" are swiftly kicked in the butt and fired. I haven't heard stories like that from this particular line of work in the last 10 years or so. Definitely something to be thankful for.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Monday, August 28, 2006 8:45 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER

Gettin' to the point where I think we should just put women in the drivers seat and do all the dirty work ourselves. Skip a few steps. Save alot of anguish for both sexes in the long run.
My only problem might be some woman of the ultra bitchy sort not giving credit where credit is due.
Not too afraid though. Most of the women I know give appropriate recognition for the jobs I do.

Think I just pondered myself into a corner. Is it possible that I haven't displayed enough love as to have it recognized, commended, or even returned?

Just need coffee. Caffine will do the trick.

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Monday, August 28, 2006 8:47 AM

TRISTAN

I'm kinda on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as my job goes...insurance is mostly dominated by women, at least down in the trenches where I am. I have not been told I can't do things because of my gender; I have actually been pushed because of my age and education level to do more than the others in this office. They have reached a level where they are comfortable and happy, but it appears that the goal for me is loftier. Again, I am the only male (besides the owner) working in an office with five other females, doing basically the same job as four of them. And I would love to be in the same room if someone ever told any of them they couldn't do the same job a man does!

Sex discrimination really bothers me.

______________________________________

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:04 AM

PONYXPRESSINC

To be fair the whole Eastenders thing was a loooooong time ago, I only knew anything about it because the kiss was on morning T.V. followed by a HUGE debate.

Debate was nothing to the furore at work though. You would have thought the blokes had done the naked okey cokey right there and then.

I never really had direct problems regarding my Gender in my work, perhaps because I naturally gravitated towards HR. However, I know an extremely talented female engineer who has been sidelined behind much less talented Male counterparts. Part of me thinks that this is not just due to her gender but because she is one of those people who quietly works for the good of the company where as other less talented people make a lot of noise and generally make a nuisance of themselves, thus getting noticed.

Quote:
The reason given was that because maternity leave is mandatory in Ireland, the IT manager would never want to risk having to hire a contractor for a few months if I ever had a child.

I despair, I really do, it still happens because I know people it's happened too but for crying out loud!

Yay for self employment!

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:13 AM

PENGUIN

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
I'm kinda on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as my job goes...insurance is mostly dominated by women, at least down in the trenches where I am. I have not been told I can't do things because of my gender; I have actually been pushed because of my age and education level to do more than the others in this office. They have reached a level where they are comfortable and happy, but it appears that the goal for me is loftier. Again, I am the only male (besides the owner) working in an office with five other females, doing basically the same job as four of them. And I would love to be in the same room if someone ever told any of them they couldn't do the same job a man does!
Sex discrimination really bothers me.

I've been in the insurance industry for almost 23 years...you're right, it is largely female (except for most of the high bosses...hmmmm). I enjoy being one of the few men...

King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:15 AM

TRISTAN

Penguin, yes, it does make the classes and conventions interesting! It is a lot of fun, though...I got lucky by falling into this job.

______________________________________

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:18 AM

PONYXPRESSINC

Hey Ghost rider...

Quote:
Gettin' to the point where I think we should just put women in the drivers seat and do all the dirty work ourselves. Skip a few steps. Save alot of anguish for both sexes in the long run.

Ahh! Now I wouldn't agree with that, I have to say that the bosses I've had who actually pushed me forward and gave me the opportunities have been for the most part men.

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:22 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
I'm kinda on the opposite end of the spectrum as far as my job goes...insurance is mostly dominated by women, at least down in the trenches where I am.

That's because most "down in the trenches" jobs are traditionally women's jobs, especially in insurance. The money in insurance is mostly in sales and you'll find a larger percentage of men there.

My job for example: 14 men/67 women (eek, just realizing I counted the ratio of women to men wrong, argh!). Here's the breakdown of which positions are held by which sex:

Men: 3 = owners/sales
2 = IT (1 management level)
1 = CFO
1 = CEO/sales
4 = Sales (all owner's relatives and will be management someday)
1 = Management
2 = support (position were held by women until they filled them recently

Women:
5 = managment (1 of which is owner's daughter)
3 = sales
59 = support

The majority of the men started in sales or management. The majority of the women started in support and worked their arses off to get to where they are today.

Why exactly is it that entry level positions for women is secretary/receptionist while entry level for men is management/sales? (Tristan I know you're different, but that seems to be the overwhelming trend).

Also, I'm not so sure you can say that the women are happy where they're at or that they have stopped climbing the men's ladder due to needed flexibility for children/family. My .02 cents

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:28 AM

TRISTAN

RugBug, I actually started in insurance as a receptionist...first male this company has ever had in that position!

I am working towards eventually becoming a producer, but that will take awhile. I need a lot more experience, and the best place to learn it is through the women I work with.

______________________________________

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:43 AM

MSG

It's odd in teaching because , while females are the majority, it kind of depends what grades you teach. Elementary grades have very few men, middle grades about 70/30 female to male, higher level 50/50 female to male...so it would seem the older the kid the more likely to have a male teacher. I don't know why so few guys are in lower grades except that they face enormous pressure that there must be something wrong with them if they like small children and I'm not sure how our society developed this odd we want men to be caring and loving/we don't want men around little kids thing...it's bizzare.
I will say however, my best teachers( the ones I adored anyway) were all male, but that may be because I respond better to guys ( proud daddy's girl)

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:47 AM

TRISTAN

I have had great male teachers and great female teachers throughout my school "career". I actually don't have a preference.
I also have a problem with the male teachers being around young children taboo...never made any sense to me, and seems a bit paranoid for my tastes.

Ok, up to 120...time for a new one.
Be right back!
New thread:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=23502
______________________________________

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:51 AM

RUGBUG

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
RugBug, I actually started in insurance as a receptionist...first male this company has ever had in that position!

Yea, I remembered. Which is why I said you were a little different than the norm.

Quote:
Originally posted by Tristan:
I am working towards eventually becoming a producer, but that will take awhile.

I would expect nothing less, being male and all.

Men are groomed to be producers, women to be CSRs.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Monday, August 28, 2006 9:54 AM

KELKHIL

Well I never judged my teachers by whether they were male or female. My favorite teachers were the ones that did not judge me by my big sis. I had the pleasure of a sister 2 years older than myself and she was a trouble maker. So on the first day of class I could always tell how the class was going to be because if I got asked "are you Jen's brother" I knew I was screwed. On very rare occasions would they ask that question and also give me a fair shake. that is why I absolutly hated school.

It was not until I took a few years off and started college that I realized that I could enjoy a class.

Kelkhil

The shirtless Forsaken

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