GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly popular in Illegal downloads

POSTED BY: IHEARTFIREFLY
UPDATED: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 22:36
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VIEWED: 2373
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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:24 AM

IHEARTFIREFLY


I'm not sure how to take this news, but a friend was telling me last night abou the illegal downloading program he uses (He wouldn't tell me the name to "protect the innocent").

He was telling me that the new show "Saved" on TNT was really hard to find- there were only 4 of the 8 or so episodes anywhere. I then asked him to search for Firefly and he said 350 people had the full set of episodes and 650 more were in the process of downloading it.

Overall, it made me happy because new people were discovering the 'verse- But I should want them to be paying for it, right?!
It is interesting news, nonetheless. :)

"Can't take the sky..."

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:33 AM

KANEMAN


I'm not sure. I kind of think that every time Fox makes money on the DVDs. The less likely they are ever going to give up the rights.

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:35 AM

SILENCE


once they see the show, they'll fall in love with it and eventually buy the DVDs for more Firefly goodness!

**************************
"Listen, if you got guests I can come back later."

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:36 AM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE


Honestly, I doubt buying the DVDs from Fox is going to hurt our cause in the longrun. The only way they'll be pursuaded to make more Firefly (in whatever form) is if they see how large the fanbase is, and how much more money they could be making if they released something in addition to the series on DVD.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:41 AM

IHEARTFIREFLY


But if there is no money trail for the sales, how will any network or movie execs really get a grasp on the size of the fanbase?

"Can't take the sky..."

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:41 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
I'm not sure. I kind of think that every time Fox makes money on the DVDs. The less likely they are ever going to give up the rights.



Correct me if I'm wrong, butwhen the show was first cancelled didn't FOX give Joss permission to shop it to other networks? It was my impression that no one wanted it.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:50 AM

IHEARTFIREFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:

Correct me if I'm wrong, butwhen the show was first cancelled didn't FOX give Joss permission to shop it to other networks? It was my impression that no one wanted it.



Well, that was before FOX had any idea anyone liked Firefly. It had low ratings so how would they know it would sell so well on DVD?

"Can't take the sky..."

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 11:56 AM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by IHeartFirefly:

But I should want them to be paying for it, right?!




In all honesty, at this point, why? Will it help? Unlikely. Will it spred the word? Definitely!

Also, what your buddy was talking about was only one download off of one site. At a site that I know about there are 10 downloads currently active (1 marked as Serenity) with a total of over 400 people downloading for the series and 9 downloads for Serenity with ~50 people total downloading (there was also done the impossible that turned up in this search as well).

They may not buy the DVD's, but they may buy a t-shirt or spred the word further or... It still helps the cause.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:11 PM

SEAOTTER


Another thing to consider would be whether anyone other than FOX (or Universal) profits off the sale of those series (or film) DVDs.

There are a lot of artists that put a lot of work into those (as you well know).

Could any of it be money out of Joss' pocket?

And wouldn't every single sale tell Fox and Universal what they're holding on to?



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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 12:33 PM

WHOOPS


I hate to say it but thats how i found out about the film. A mate downloaded it i watched loved by shear coincidence found out about the series so decided to buy both.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Love. You can do all the math in the 'Verse, but you take a boat in the air you
don't love, she'll shake you off sure as a turnin' of worlds. Love keeps her in
the air when she oughtta fall down. Tells you she's hurtin' 'fore she keens.
Makes her a home." Mal


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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:26 PM

SEAOTTER


I got no problem with people pirating to try and then buying.

The buying is the key.


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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:31 PM

WTE


Most of the stories I hear are of people who downloaded the series then, loving it, decided to show their support with the moneys. I mean, a blind buy is a baaaad idea (though there are more legal ways to avoid this). And who wouldn't want to give money to Firefly? Over and over and over.

HONKS

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:36 PM

IHEARTFIREFLY


I agree. That is why I am so excited about this tidbit of news. -That the number of people downloading Firefly was doubling. Fabulous.

"Can't take the sky..."

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:44 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by SeaOtter:

Another thing to consider would be whether anyone other than FOX (or Universal) profits off the sale of those series (or film) DVDs.

There are a lot of artists that put a lot of work into those (as you well know).

Could any of it be money out of Joss' pocket?





I'm sorry to say, but this arugment is nothing but sophistry.

Artists et al are paid a one time fee and that's it. So, anyone involved in the process of making these things has already been paid and will profit no more.

The actors got paid for the show when it was on and were paid the day they did the commentary. No more aside from possibly being paid for appearences.

I imagine that this is the same with Joss as he was the writer/director/commentator. Nothing more.

Basically, F*X is the only one profiting from a point a long time ago.


Quote:

Originally posted by SeaOtter:

And wouldn't every single sale tell Fox and Universal what they're holding on to?




The DVD sales for the movie would tell Universal that it wouldn't be an entirely stupid idea to make another movie. But, this has already been accomplished despite downloads.

The DVD sales for the series are telling F*X that it'd be a good idea to hold onto those rights longer so no-one else can profit from it and they still have the option to profit from it in the future. Which again, has already been accomplished despite the downloads.


Basically, time and time again, F*X has had it proven to them that there is a profitable market for them to make this stuff and that that market is growing. But, time and time again, they ignore it.

I'm sorry to say, but there really isn't any damage that can be done anymore with regards to the BDS DVD sales. F*X obviously made up its mind when it cancelled the show all those years ago.

An argument could be made with regards to the DVD sales for the BDM, but it wouldn't hold much water as its already been about a year after the fact.


We'll all just have to wait and see what happens.

----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 1:50 PM

BAD2VERSE


Quote:

Originally posted by IHeartFirefly:
Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:

Correct me if I'm wrong, butwhen the show was first cancelled didn't FOX give Joss permission to shop it to other networks? It was my impression that no one wanted it.



Well, that was before FOX had any idea anyone liked Firefly. It had low ratings so how would they know it would sell so well on DVD?



EVERY station is starting to realize that "Nielsen Ratings" are NOT in touch with what people are actually watching.. "Nielsen Ratings" has responded by saying they are trying new systems of ratings...

When approx. 1000 people out of 360 MILLION are determining "What's good, and what isn't", then someone is OBVIOUSLY simply living on their past reputation.. the population of the USA has Quartered again since the Nielsen Ratings were developed.. they extrapolate from a handful of viewers what ALL of the nation is interested in...

They Used to have a "TV Rating Journal" that people would fill out each time they watched TV.. that wasn't so long ago either, because I remember the commercials that said "If you are keeping a TV ratings Journal, please remember to note the time and channel..." yada yada yada..

THEN they switched to a Button people could push on a special box attached to their TV set.. but found out that people only pushed the button when something was EXTREMELY good, or EXTREMELY bad.

I think they do it now via a special box that collects the data automatically.. but MANY people leave their TV's on with no one in front of them.

AND we don't know who the 1000 people are.. a large majority could be "History lovers", in which case the History channel would be THE top rated channel... You see what I mean by that I hope...

Nielsen also admits that their "group of viewers" don't watch much Sci-fi, and that SOAP OPERAS and "Primetime shows" are what their "Average participant" watches... That means (to me) It's House-Wives/House-husbands mostly (Which are home during the day)

They need a better system, and they admit it...

MOST major cable companies keep track of what each household is watching.. but again you run into the problem of "Is anyone actually sitting there in front of the TV set?"

It's a bad system, not an accurate system, and they can't seem to come up with anything better, yet shows live or die by their Nielsen Ratings... Sucks.. but there it is.

And again (said for the millionth time here, I'm sure) F*X admits they screwed up the advertising and the promotion of the series... BUT the chances of ANY network picking up something that another Major network "Doesn't want" is slim.. the other networks ASSUME that the first Network lost money, or got bad ratings, or etc etc etc...

We have to find a way to show the owners (Who ever that may be at this point) that it CAN make money NOW, and WOULD, given the right time-slot and budget.

________________________
..but eatin people alive, where does THAT get fun?

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:31 PM

GOAT


Actually, thats how I got started on Firefly. A friend had "procured" some video files and persueded me to watch them. I don't think I ever would watched them, otherwise. Since then, I have bought the BDS and BDM DVDs, given a set as a birthday gift and I'm probably going to buy 2 more copies of the BDM (I want the extras on the Aussie BDM and I want the Japanese BDM so I can share with my friends here) and maybe a region 2 copy of the BDS if I can find it.

(bellyfeel)
Now of course anyone who downloads a movie or song would have bought it had the download not been available. Download == Bad. Must. Pay. MPAA/RIAA. More. Money...
(/bellyfeel)

( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Newspeak_words#Bellyfeel)
EDIT: Interesting. Anything in brackets becomes invisible when posted. Changed to <>.
EDIT2: Changed to ()

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:00 PM

SEAOTTER


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Quote:

Originally posted by SeaOtter:
Another thing to consider would be whether anyone other than FOX (or Universal) profits off the sale of those series (or film) DVDs.

There are a lot of artists that put a lot of work into those (as you well know).

Could any of it be money out of Joss' pocket?


I'm sorry to say, but this arugment is nothing but sophistry.


Are you sure?

Maybe it wasn't an argument. Maybe it was just someone asking.

Maybe it was someone who used to be in the arts who was expressing a genuine concern.



Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Artists et al are paid a one time fee and that's it. So, anyone involved in the process of making these things has already been paid and will profit no more.

The actors got paid for the show when it was on and were paid the day they did the commentary. No more aside from possibly being paid for appearences.

I imagine that this is the same with Joss as he was the writer/director/commentator. Nothing more.

Basically, F*X is the only one profiting from a point a long time ago.


Well, that was more than I knew.

If that is the case, then I have no problem with Firefly being pirated.



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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 5:43 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


FOX is not profiting and does not own the rights. 20th Century Fox, an entirely different company, owns the rights, believes in the show, and is making money on it.
This thread: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=19318&m=372170#372170 discusses the difference and is worth a look-see.


Better than a thousand hollow words, is one word that brings peace. - Gautama Siddharta

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 6:59 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by SeaOtter:

Maybe it wasn't an argument. Maybe it was just someone asking.




IMO, the post seemed to be going in the direction of people will be losing money b/c of downloading definitive. IMO, if the post meant to be asking, there should be more question marks.


Quote:

Originally posted by SeaOtter:

Well, that was more than I knew.

If that is the case, then I have no problem with Firefly being pirated.




If you need anymore convincing (or anyone else) then just think about how huge and costly an accounting system would have to be, to keep track of hundreds of products that have hundreds of people attached to them, if everyone that worked on them, got a share of each sale. It'd be economic suicide.


The flip side to this, is if the product is new, and everyone pirates it, then future products are in jeopardy. This wouldn't be good for artists, etc and future work would probably dwindle.


I feel that I should say at this point that I do own both the BDS and the BDM. Just saying in case people are starting to think that I'm not financially supporting the 'verse.

EDIT: Is urulive still going? I heard that it was shut down.


----
I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:48 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:

Quote:

Originally posted by SeaOtter:

Another thing to consider would be whether anyone other than FOX (or Universal) profits off the sale of those series (or film) DVDs.

There are a lot of artists that put a lot of work into those (as you well know).

Could any of it be money out of Joss' pocket?





I'm sorry to say, but this arugment is nothing but sophistry.

Artists et al are paid a one time fee and that's it. So, anyone involved in the process of making these things has already been paid and will profit no more.

I imagine that this is the same with Joss as he was the writer/director/commentator. Nothing more.

Basically, F*X is the only one profiting from a point a long time ago.

I'm sorry to say, but there really isn't any damage that can be done anymore with regards to the BDS DVD sales. F*X obviously made up its mind when it cancelled the show all those years ago.




Do a little research .

I've worked for film and television productions , as have several of my relatives . Have you ever heard of 'residuals' ? Frequently an artist will negotiate a new contract for a larger share of residuals .

DEFINITION :(from an online dictionary)

2. residual - (often plural) a payment that is made to a performer or writer or director of a television show or commercial that is paid for every repeat showing; "he could retire on his residuals"

Also , look up a similar term : 'points' , in relation to box-office proceeds . Frequently , an artist will take points in lieu of , or in addition to , his regular compensation for a role .

Let's not deprive Joss of any residuals . Also , let's not deprive our BDH's of their fair shares , whether residuals from the BDS or points from the BDM .

Also , the fact that the BDM is nearly a year old is completely irrelevant . Should all Japanese fans or potential fans choose an illegal download over a copy of the DVD , which they are only getting quite recently ?

Both the BDS and BDM are continuing to produce revenue , and will continue to do so for many years to come . Every dime counts toward a sequel or a new series .

Respect the rights of the Writers and Artists . Pay for your Firefly / Serenity content and be fair to all concerned . None of us know the particular details of anyone's personal contracts . Maybe Ron Glass is depending on points or residuals for his retirement fund .

Keep the Faith . Share the Love . Feel the Joy .

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Wednesday, August 30, 2006 10:36 PM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Roger that. www.Limewire.com has all the epps. Except for the DVD commentaries. So you still must buy the DVDs to get the good stuff, and to watch it on a real TV with friends and family, sitting on a couch, instead of hunched over with a computer in your face. There's no competition.

So free downloads don't affect sales of DVDs, except to stimulate sales. Filesharing is just video on demand, which is already available "free" from cable TV providers. Bookstores and libraries let customers read the books in the store, without fear of losing sales.

Filesharing let's Firefly compete on the open market, uncensored by Fox TV and Universal/SciFi TV. SciFi prefers wrestling to Firefly reruns! Fox TV won't touch it at all.

Fox TV and 20th Century Fox are both owned by Rupert Murdock. As is The Sun (aka The Sin), Rupert's daily porno rag. No wonder the Firefly stars were required to strip.
www.newscorp.com
www.thesun.co.uk
www.page3.com

Screw em. Filesharing will just replace Fox and SciFi, if that's what the execs want. It actually turns your computer into a broadcast studio. That's your right to Free Speech as protected by the First Amendment to the US Constitution.

Filesharing is 100% legal, since it's legal to make VCR or TIVO copies for yourself, friends and family, for non-profit purposes. The Media Mafia is operated by pathological liars who are incapable of telling the truth about anything, so it's a fatal mistake to get any sort of legal advice from a pack of liars. If filesharing were illegal, then the cable ISP monopolies would be guilty, especially since they make a massive profit from filesharing already.

Filesharing is a nightmare of video codec incompatability and slow connections. My cable modem is 3mb/sec, but downloads are rarely faster than 20kb/sec, and usually 3kb/sec. Burning to video CD or DVD is an extreme nightmare. Anyone paid more than $1/hour income would save money by buying the DVD set. Computer manufacturers are liars to claim that DVD burners are worth a shit. There are dozens of types of DVDs, with less than 50% compatability if you're lucky. You need a very expensive computer just to be able to process any sort of video files. Hollywood DVDs are stamped, not burned, in a totally different process that ensures 100% compatibility, not counting international regions, which are thus incompatible.

The worst part of filesharing is adware. Not even the antivirus programs nor Microsoft are worth a darn against adware. There are smaller free downloads that are the only thing that works against some of those bugs. STOPSIGN is evil incarnate, taking over your computer CPU with adware, then trying to sell you the anitvirus cure for its own disease. But I never saw it on FF downloads.

FF books, of course, are not impacted by filsharing. Unless somebody wants to scan each page and make a PDF ebook...

I suspect all the hype against filesharing is reverse psychology, just to advertise it for free. Firefly filesharing is just guerilla marketing for Fox and Universal. And they're in the narco money-laundering business, so don't feel sorry for their Media Mafia. They can turn a massive profit without selling a single DVD or movie ticket.


FIREFLY SERENITY PILOT MUSIC VIDEO V2
"How can I get the Captain to shoot a cop in the face, and make it right?"
-Joss the Boss, Serenity DVD
Tangerine Dream - Thief Soundtrack: Confrontation
http://radio.indymedia.org/news/2006/03/8912.php
Pirate News TV
Channels 6 & 12
Winner Best Filmed Music
L.A. Indies 2006
Winner Best Music Video
Los Angeles Music Awards 2005
Winner Best Website
Y2K Tennessee Collegiate Website Design Contest
www.piratenews.org/hollywood.html
www.myspace.com/piratenewsctv


Does that seem right to you?
http://www.scifi.com/onair/

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