GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Male and Female Imponderables--Pop Goes the World

POSTED BY: TRISTAN
UPDATED: Thursday, October 19, 2006 06:04
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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:37 AM

RUGBUG


Oops, NVG. I meant to say something about how utterly adorable those little ones are. Soooooo cute.

SBDB: If you like this guy, there's nothing wrong with flirting and seeing if he's open to something. Even if he turns out to be a bad apple, it's an experience that will teach you whoto stay away from his type in the future. Live and learn is obviously my motto, if I had one.

BTW, one of my biggest ways of discerning if a guy is decent or not is to introduce him to my best friends whose judgement I absolutely trust. They haven't been wrong yet... (And believe me, when I decided not to listen to their opinions I paid for it in the end).

As for a next step for the reserved type:

If you talk about movies, bring up one you would like to see. If he says he wants to see it to try a "maybe we should go together."

Or invite him along to something you're already going to.

Or offer to study for the next test


Flirting: we've been there, done that...but I think it's good stuff. It is only bad when the motivation is bad (i.e. you're in a relationship and you're trying to hook up with someone else, you're using it to make someone jealous or manipulate them, you're fishing for compliments, etc).

That said, I don't necessarily think flirting is bad even if an SO gets jealous. I think there are two kinds of jealousy: justified and unjustified/controlly type. If the jealousy is justified b/c someone has cheated in the past or crosses lines, then more power to you. But if it's because of your insecurity and has no basis in fact, then you need to get over yourself. (that would be a royal you...I'm not speaking to anyone in particular)

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:38 AM

RUGBUG


double posty-ness

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:53 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"


Quote:

Originally posted by RugBug:
That said, I don't necessarily think flirting is bad even if an SO gets jealous. I think there are two kinds of jealousy: justified and unjustified/controlly type. If the jealousy is justified b/c someone has cheated in the past or crosses lines, then more power to you. But if it's because of your insecurity and has no basis in fact, then you need to get over yourself. (that would be a royal you...I'm not speaking to anyone in particular)



Hmmm. I accept your coronation of me.

And sorry, I missed the cuteness fest. The kids are spectacular, NVG.

"Well, here I am."


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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:21 AM

TRISTAN


RugBug, I generally agree with you about the flirting thing, but for me, it's a bit personal. I used to not have a problem with an SO flirting with someone else as long as she was true to me, but as it turns out, there are other ways to cheat on someone. My big deal is love and respect first followed by physical faithfulness. Playful flirting where nothing else is involved is good, but when an SO flirts, tells you it means nothing, then it turns out they are in love with another...that I have issue with. So, going by a societal definition, nothing 'physical' happened. To me, however, the betrayal was still there because there was love involved, which lessened the love towards me and seriously damaged the respect. Was I justified in being jealous and over-reacting when it continued?
This is not a rebuke, I am trying to see if others out there view this type of distinction. As far as I know, there was no sex involved, but there was love. To me, that was worse than the possibility of sexual infidelity.

______________________________________

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:49 AM

RUGBUG


Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan:
RugBug, I generally agree with you about the flirting thing, but for me, it's a bit personal. I used to not have a problem with an SO flirting with someone else as long as she was true to me, but as it turns out, there are other ways to cheat on someone. My big deal is love and respect first followed by physical faithfulness. Playful flirting where nothing else is involved is good, but when an SO flirts, tells you it means nothing, then it turns out they are in love with another...that I have issue with. So, going by a societal definition, nothing 'physical' happened. To me, however, the betrayal was still there because there was love involved, which lessened the love towards me and seriously damaged the respect. Was I justified in being jealous and over-reacting when it continued?
This is not a rebuke, I am trying to see if others out there view this type of distinction. As far as I know, there was no sex involved, but there was love. To me, that was worse than the possibility of sexual infidelity.



Tristan, I think her flirting crossed the line and your jealousy was justified. My guess is there was more than just flirting going on because you don't fall in love with someone because they flirt with you. We've talked before about emotional infidelity. I believe you can still cheat without getting physical. From what you've posted, it sounds like that is what was going on.

Basically, I don't think she was being honest when she told you it meant nothing. She was lying to herself and to you. And sadly, you will probably carry the baggage from that for a while and be more likely to be jealous in the future.

***************
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." - George Bernard Shaw

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:53 AM

MSG


Tristan- HUGS...that's all I have to say HUGS:)

CMH- Um I teach special ed. My students could be considered "handicapped" and I've not has a single one who didn't go on to get a job and lead a productive life ( that I know of) and charity is simply accepting help.
If you haven't got any charity in your heart, you have the worst kind of heart trouble. Bob Hope

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 10:56 AM

TRISTAN


Thank you, RugBug. You are right, that is what happened; she lied to me and to herself. I do remember us talking about emotional fidelity, now that you reminded me...I think that was back when the first signs of trouble were showing up.
I don't know that I'll be really paranoid. I'll be bloody careful, I know that for sure!
Thank you for confirming that I was not off my rocker for thinking the way I did.

______________________________________

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:04 AM

TRISTAN


MSG, thank you. I'll always take a hug!
I chalk it up to a learning experience. I'm not bitter anymore, just happy to be out of it. I wanted to bring up that point, though, just to put it out there. Let other people learn from my mistakes!

______________________________________

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:09 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Wow. Aside from lunch I have spent pretty much the entire day with the Ponderers. That is not a bad thing.
I feel I may help my bestest friend with a bit of emotional infidelity and I feel guilty for it. I don't know how many times I've had to hear from her, "(Insert name here) said "Go marry Joe'."
It was usually because of some dumb fight and he (whoever she was seein' or married to at the time) was feelin' like she wasn't connecting with him. And it was usually true. She has alot of issues that have kept her from connecting to men emotionally since before I met her. I was a guy that didn't have to sleep with her and still want to be close. That really bugged a few of the guys she was with. War Stories anybody?

VERONICA

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:13 AM

TRISTAN


Hey, the ponderers are good, solid company! I enjoy it when I can spend a lot of time in here...I learn alot!



______________________________________

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:38 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Tristan:
I learn alot!


Like how it's "a lot" not "alot"?

I really need to find a way to relax. I'm getting way too worked up this week. I think my poor brother is gonna get a phonecall tonight where I just let off steam. It's like anything the least bit annoying is amplified to nails on a chaulk board status. *deep breaths*

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:42 AM

TRISTAN


Oy. Gorramn no-space-having word. Thanks, Zeek.

______________________________________

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:51 AM

ZEEK


Oh and to clarify those were two seperate thoughts. The first was just joking around. The second was about how my week is going. Hope you didn't think I was saying you were annoying, Tristan. If so, I apologize.

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:55 AM

TRISTAN


Oh, no, Zeek, not at all. I try to limit my typing errors on here, and feel sheepish when one gets pointed out to me.

I am sorry you are having a bad week. Anyone we need to introduce to an engine?

______________________________________

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:03 PM

MSG


Zeek- how fast can you type?? Vent away sweety. We're here and we're listening!! and if you need to rant my email is oncemorewithfeeling321@yahoo.com I'm even qualified to say " mmmhmm and how does that make you feel?" Seriously I'd be happy to listen HUGS

NV- It's because you're the guy every other guy wishes they were like. Some men aren't secure enough to think " gee what could I do to be more like him" and they just get buried in "why'd she pick him over me"

Tristan- see above answer and insert: and some women can be with a great guy and instead of feeling lucky they feel really inadaquate and it makes them look for losers they feel better fit their "worth" HUGS

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:37 PM

RMMC


Quote:

Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Okay, frisky or not I seriously cannot talk about my underwear on this forum! I have standards! They're not high, but they are there!



*ponders the idea that DTH while more than happy to jump NVG's bones in a public forum, will not discuss undergarments*

Sorry, DTH...I just had to say it. I'm having a Cordelia moment. I've several of them this week. All the rest were at work...in a meeting.

I wonder if UofM is hiring at their hospital...?




Banner courtsey of Aim2Misbehave (Thank you!!)
********
RMMC
"Those grenades?"
"Captain don't want 'em."
"Jayne, we're robbing the place, we're not occupying it."

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:41 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Good observation. Kinda wierd bein' part of it though.


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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:48 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Can't stop playing with my sig. Will I go blind?


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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:55 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Hey CMH. I know a couple of people have responded to this already, but I'm going to add my own two cents.

Quote:

Unacceptable. I think that women and men need to start realizing that this isn't as "fun and games" as it appears to be. So many people (and by that, I mean everyone except for me) are willing to approach this subject with a huge, shit-eating grin and accept accusations of manipulation with a giddy "Heh heh, yup!". But I'm not joking.


The situation Magdalena (and others) described were fun and games. That was the point. Men are attracted to women. Women are attracted to men. This leads to all manner of fun and games as well as procreation of the species. Both sides are aware of this. It's perfectly natural that both sides would have as much fun with that as possible. I have no doubt that people of both genders use their attractiveness to manipulate others. I've seen people do that. But that's not what we were describing. We described several occasions where we flirted with our partners to get their attention. If you see that as manipulation then I'm sorry, because you're missing out on a really fun part of being in a relationship.

Quote:

Last week while at a friend's house who rooms with several other people, including two very attractive females, one friend of mine offered up $50 to on of the females after she made note that she was broke. She did not asking him for it. He simply overheard her and offered it. She, of course, was more than happy to accept.


Like the other said, you haven't described her using her looks to get the money. Did she say it out loud so he could hear? Did she bat her eyes or wiggle her butt at him? Was she aware that he liked her? All you say is that she was attractive, she mentioned she was broke and he offered her money. Did she do anything to encourage him, anything at all, or did you just assume that since she was good looking he must have been thinking with the other brain? Because if that's the case then the issue is with your reaction to attractive women, not his.

Quote:

Am I the only person who feels physically ill seeing this type of manipulation take place with absolutely no feeling of guilt or embarrassment from either party? What transpired there was wrong, and I find it... disturbing that this is a fairly common social interaction. The attractive girl cashing in on guys whom she'd never even consider dating.


I don't think this is common at all. You make it sound like all we do is use our feminine wiles to get our own way. Yes, there are some women who cash in on guys they won't consider dating. As I said before, there are some men out there who do exactly the same thing. It's means they're manipulative people who should be ignored as much as possible. It's NOT a sign that their entire gender does the same thing.

Quote:

The majority of men today are dumbasses controlled by the leash God attached to their crotches. I would like to, on their behalf, plead that any women present not use this type of power so aimlessly. You might all think that it's just fun and games and how the world works, put power without the discipline to obtain it, quite literally, scares me.


So men are helpless bundles of hormones with no willpower to control their biological reactions to the female of the species then. Chris, that's like saying a rapist isn't to blame for raping a woman who wore a short skirt since he wouldn't have been turned on by "sensible" clothing. And that argument, just to be absolutely clear, is a load of bull As I said before, men are attacted to women. (And I'm just remembering as I type that that's not true of all guys, so forgive the generalisation!) That attraction isn't a power women wield over men. It's just normal, same as men attracting women, women attracting women, men attracting men and all the nice stuff it leads to.

Quote:

You can say I'm over-reacting. Maybe I can't point out any specific times where this type of female-dominance has led to a particularly heinous crime. But I likewise cannot fathom a time where it would lead to any amount of good, either.


And here is where I think we get to the heart of the issue. In my opinion, your problem isn't with people acting on lust, it's with female-dominance. You seem to have an issue with the idea of a woman being in control. And that's pretty damn sad. And maybe you think I'm over-reacting, but if so I think you should re-read your posts. Physical attraction is not some dangerous power than men need to be afraid of and women need to protect them from, and I find it deeply disturbing that you would think that.




More graphics and animations available at www.desktophippie.com

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 12:59 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


Quote:

Originally posted by RMMC:
Quote:

Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
Okay, frisky or not I seriously cannot talk about my underwear on this forum! I have standards! They're not high, but they are there!



*ponders the idea that DTH while more than happy to jump NVG's bones in a public forum, will not discuss undergarments*




Hey! That's...! That's... well okay that's actually a very good point.

*sigh* I'm wearing panties. And I'm going to bed! Goodnight all, see you tomorrow! *hugs*




More graphics and animations available at www.desktophippie.com

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:03 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Thanks so much for the visual. Nighty night. Sleep well.


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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:13 PM

PENGUIN


Quote:

Originally posted by nvghostrider:
Can't stop playing with my sig. Will I go blind?




YES!





King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 1:47 PM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Thats the funny feeling I get.

Well, goodnight ponderers. I'm out 'til later.


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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:19 PM

RMMC


Now that I've actually caught up with all the ponderings...

Thunderstorms: not a particular turn on. I love watching lighting, especially the big close ones, but I don't like the china-rattling thunder that goes with it.

Undergarments (female): I like wearing pretty undies and such, but I buy them because they make me happy. I've got no SO to be thinking of, so if I like it is my criteria. And yeah, it does make me feel prettier.

Undergarments (male): Don't mind seeing a guy in either, but from things I've read, if ya want kids, make him wear boxers. (MsG...ya may want to keep that in mind for MrG. )

NVG: Your sister's children are so adorable! Thanks for sharing the piccys with us. Good thoughts and prayers for the dental sitch though.

Flirting (good): Not much of a flirter, well, ever but I don't see anything wrong with the 'I love you and are you as hot as I am right now' flirting. The only thing i can see this leading to is a nice time for both parties.

Flirting (bad): Flirting for strict monetary or any other kind of personal and selfish gain by either sex is reprehensible. I've seen it, and I've seen it perpetrated by members of both sexes. When I see it, I just tell myself, that is not a person I wanna be friends with on any level and stick to it. That was harder when one of the worst examples of it I had ever seen married one of my friends. Her sisters tried to warn her, but no go. It took a few years of marriage for it to sink in.


Woman Power/Manipulation: CMH seems to think that only men can be rendered dumbstruck by the opposite sex with just words, but frankly if my guy whispered to me where he'd like to nibble when we got home, my brain would do a Chernobyl. However, the key words would be my guy, not some guy.
As I said above I've seen manipulators of both sexes. I've also seen members of both sexes who thought with their reproductive systems only and any trouble they got from it, I had very little sympathy for. I don't think there's any excuse in this day and age for any adult not being able to keep his or her crotch in check. Any decisions you make have to eventually go through the other brain...the one in you head. Any action after that is on you; stating anything else is just lying to everyone, yourself included, and showing that you're not adult enough to take responsibility for your own actions.
Sorry, CMH but a lot of what you say about women has me agreeing with DTH: it sounds like you have a problem with women having any kind of power or authority. That is your issue alone. I for one am glad that the middle ages are long gone with women not being allowed to have an opinion of their own, own property, vote, have a good paying job, choose their own spouses or go where ever they like.

Zeek: *hugs* If ya wanna talk we'll listen.

SBDB: I'm a bit shy myself, but a lot of the advise here sounds good. Keep is casual and include others in an outing if possible. The being a bit of an ass thing also worries me, but i have a question for clarification. Is he an ass by acting silly/stupidily and outside the majority norms but essentially not being harmful to others or is he being an ass as in a real jerk who likes to hurt others? The first is not much to worry about but the second is, so do be careful. {/mom mode}

I think that's it.



Banner courtsey of Aim2Misbehave (Thank you!!)
********
RMMC
"Those grenades?"
"Captain don't want 'em."
"Jayne, we're robbing the place, we're not occupying it."

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 5:29 PM

CHRISMOORHEAD


Quote:

The situation Magdalena (and others) described were fun and games. That was the point. Men are attracted to women. Women are attracted to men. This leads to all manner of fun and games as well as procreation of the species. Both sides are aware of this. It's perfectly natural that both sides would have as much fun with that as possible. I have no doubt that people of both genders use their attractiveness to manipulate others. I've seen people do that. But that's not what we were describing. We described several occasions where we flirted with our partners to get their attention. If you see that as manipulation then I'm sorry, because you're missing out on a really fun part of being in a relationship.


You're right, I fail/failed to make a distinction between harmless fun and malicious manipulation. Upon further deliberation, I realize that this stems to a deeper personal issue that I have with any behavior, flirting or otherwise, specifically designed to elicit an advantageous response, whether or not it's friendly. As it is a personal issue, I don't suppose I can hold others to it, but I still think it's disturbing myself and I'm more than happy to be missing out on it.

Quote:

Like the other said, you haven't described her using her looks to get the money. Did she say it out loud so he could hear? Did she bat her eyes or wiggle her butt at him? Was she aware that he liked her? All you say is that she was attractive, she mentioned she was broke and he offered her money. Did she do anything to encourage him, anything at all, or did you just assume that since she was good looking he must have been thinking with the other brain? Because if that's the case then the issue is with your reaction to attractive women, not his.


She's very aware the he's desperately attracted to her. She'll hang off of him, rest her head on him, etc., everything short of actually going out with him. She has a naturally "flirty" disposition and takes no measures to not lead on males whom she knows for a fact are interested in her. It's sickening to watch them all compete and vie for her attention when she has no intention of going anywhere with them. And I know, that's not totally her fault, and I'm just as sickened by the males as I am by her. The whole situation is pathetic, and what irks me to the point of speaking out about it is how common it is. The few times I'm ever actually around women, it's almost always like this, and I regret that I didn't drive myself so that I could just ditch out.

Quote:

I don't think this is common at all. You make it sound like all we do is use our feminine wiles to get our own way. Yes, there are some women who cash in on guys they won't consider dating. As I said before, there are some men out there who do exactly the same thing. It's means they're manipulative people who should be ignored as much as possible. It's NOT a sign that their entire gender does the same thing.


While I'm sure you'll just pass it off as part of me being sexist and paranoid, I think a big problem is that half the time women don't realize that they're doing it. The girl I mentioned in my example, as I said before, has a flirty personality. I doubt she's doing what she does maliciously (She seems far too stupid for that), but that doesn't mean she's not hurting people and manipulating them, whether or not she's doing it on purpose.

I've seen men do it as well, same as you, but usually the only one duped by them is the one girl they're actually going out with. Most other people seem readily able to recognize him as a shitbag. Women seem more able to suspend the illusion that they're not doing it on purpose. Beyond that, if I seem more concerned with women doing it, it's because I'm a heterosexual male and am not the least bit threatened by the prospect of a seductive male. I know they're out there and that there's shitbags on both sides, but honestly, it's just more my personal concern.

Quote:

So men are helpless bundles of hormones with no willpower to control their biological reactions to the female of the species then. Chris, that's like saying a rapist isn't to blame for raping a woman who wore a short skirt since he wouldn't have been turned on by "sensible" clothing. And that argument, just to be absolutely clear, is a load of bull As I said before, men are attacted to women. (And I'm just remembering as I type that that's not true of all guys, so forgive the generalisation!) That attraction isn't a power women wield over men. It's just normal, same as men attracting women, women attracting women, men attracting men and all the nice stuff it leads to.


I'm not asking you to absolve them of anything, so your comparison to absolving a rapist of blame is moot. And it's funny that you should bring this particular comparison up, considering that it's gotten me in hot water with several people before. On that note, I'm more than happy to reiterate for a more proper comparison:

Rapists are not to be absolved for raping a woman in revealing clothes. It's certainly her RIGHT to wear those clothes. However, when weighing the options of what risks are worth taking and what risks are not, she has CONTROL over that small portion of it. It is part of her own decision to make herself more or less vulnerable at that point.

Likewise, it is not a woman's FAULT that the majority of men are naturally manipulated by them, but just because it's not intentional doesn't mean that they don't still have control over the situation. It may not be a universal truth, but men on average a willing to bend much further for women than vice versa. The natural state of the male mind is to spread his seed as much as possible, and always with the best prospective specimen. The natural state of the female mind is simply to choose. That alone puts them in a position of power.

Quote:

And here is where I think we get to the heart of the issue. In my opinion, your problem isn't with people acting on lust, it's with female-dominance. You seem to have an issue with the idea of a woman being in control. And that's pretty damn sad. And maybe you think I'm over-reacting, but if so I think you should re-read your posts. Physical attraction is not some dangerous power than men need to be afraid of and women need to protect them from, and I find it deeply disturbing that you would think that.


My issue is with anyone wielding un-disciplined dominance over anyone else. I get just as angry seeing a man physically dominate a woman as I do when I see a woman mentally manipulate a man. Both situations are disturbing to me. In both situations, part of me disdains the victim, that they would put themselves in the situation to BE abused or manipulated, but I always agree that the aggressor carries the majority of the blame.

[IMG]
"Pain is your friend, it is your ally. It will keep you awake, and angry, and remind you to finish the mission and get the hell home. But you know the best thing about pain? It let's you know that you're not dead yet."

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:16 PM

WHITEFALL


Ok, so.... been outta the world for a spell, no time to walk it now... but I still love you all.

Life's going pretty shiny, and magda thanks for teh PM a few weeks back, I just found it in my spam folder! Yahoo fails me.

Well, I see that the ponderings are going in a circle atm, we're back to CMH-ness. Have fun all, I hope you guys sort out or accept your differences. Be back later, must go write an essay.

"But, these strong women characters?"

"Why aren't you asking 100 other guys why they don't write strong women characters?" -Joss Whedon.

"We take all the money we got saved right now, we could maybe buy a moderately sized gerbil." -Mal

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Wednesday, October 18, 2006 6:25 PM

WHIMSICALNBRAINPAN


es Penguin for having such a wonderful sense of humor.

"Well, my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle." http://whimsicalnbrainpan.blogspot.com/

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Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:30 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Hello all... I do miss some good ponderances when I am asleep or at work...

I did want to clarify that the occassion on which I placed my parteners hand on my suspenders (or 'garter belt' for you American friends) I was in a relationship with him and actually paid for my own ticket - he had just been grumbling about the cost of the tickets so much leading up to the concert... and I later found out that his mother reimbursed him for his!!! We had been dating for over 4 months and if I gave the impression that I 'offered up sex' in return for the ticket - then I appologise Chris! I was upset when I first read your response as it was fairly sweeping and I felt judged by it - but I realise it was not clear that I was talking about an ongoing relationship where we liked to surprise one another...

Now - having taken so long to read all the thread I can't remember it all so forgive me if I miss someone - but it is good to see you here FMF!!

NVG!! - they are the cutest little darlings!! I agree with MsG!! (& she's spot on with the oil test... though some babies just can't stand missing out on the action at times...)

SBDB - I find at my ripe old age that I regret not doing things and not taking a risk - but having said that I know how everything is amplified in a small community like high school... it has to feel right to you is all I can say... it might just be a case of wait and see - sorry I can't be of more help!

Flirting - I have grown up in the theatre and have friends of both sexes, all sexual orientations and all ages - flirting is an age old way of people communicating and is very natural - but there are degrees of flirting! I have several gay male friends with whom I flirt outrageously & vice versa because I know there will be no 'wrong message' taken from it! Others tend to flirt a little coz they are close friends and it is OK to show friendship love through fliritng - but there is a totally different kind of flirt that means - if you want me I am yours... when you get hit with that there really is no confusion... at least when I do it - there is no 'leading on' and the only thing I want is to find out if the guy feels the same way!

Good to catch up - I'm looking forward to you all waking up! - Magda x x x




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Thursday, October 19, 2006 1:57 AM

PENGUIN


*yawns* Good morning dear one!



King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:16 AM

NICODEMUS


Gooooooooooooood morning America.




**************

(Thx to Desktop Hippie for the banner)
If you find yourself getting too worked up about stuff that isn't real (RP Threads etc), then go outside, breathe in some fresh air and try feeding the ducks. (Because ducks don't care about your politics, religion, skin colour, choice of music or even your haircut. They like everyone, provided you bring them food.)

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Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:50 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


*missed a lot*
Yeah, can't remember everything. I'll say that, with flirting, it's usually because there is some form of attraction there if it's me. If I flirt it's because I think someone is a great person (or a highly attractive one) even if it's a case of nothing ever coming of it. I have at times crossed the line with a friend, not because of anything in particular, just consistancy. I've backed off on flirting a whole lot lately since I found out I had unintentionally led a friend of mine on. Not sure how to get back into the swing of it, since I seem to need different techniques and don't know where to begin. Anyway, a complicated deconstruction of the interactions of my old social circle could follow, but I'll spare you.

http://www.bigdamnthankyou.com - show 'Versal your gratitude!

A good friend who points out mistakes and imperfections and rebukes evil is to be respected as if he reveals a secret of hidden treasure. - Gautama Siddharta

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Thursday, October 19, 2006 2:54 AM

MAVOURNEEN


OMG, Penguin!

That Ceiling Cat has got to be the funniest thing I've seen in a long while. Caught me by surprise; my office mate thinks I'm off my nut laughing so hard.

*scurries over to photobucket to send that pic to a few people...*

Thanks for the laugh. I needed it!

And, Good Morning Everyone!


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Thursday, October 19, 2006 3:11 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


Good Morning Mavourneen! I like the idea of you getting the giggles at work!!

Hello Mei Mei... I did once have a misunderstanding with a friend who thought I was flirting with him - though the odd thing is I wasn't really - but then he was the one who proposed on the first date so... I don't think it was my wires that got crossed...

Evening - or actually 'night Nico! It's 10.40pm there isn't it...?

We've got to get pondering folks!




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Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:13 AM

MSG


Magda love BIG HUGS:) I will email you later and tell you stuff:)

CMH- I have to say I agree with you. It's like a guy who during the night at a bar repeatedly flashes a wallet full of cash and then as he's heading ot his car, he gets robbed. Theguy getting robbed wasn't " asking for it" but could his behavior have increased his chances of getting hurt or robbed? YES! Yes we can wear what we want, but so many women put themselves in a bad situation without realizing it. How you dress, how you act, and who you go home with need to be carefully weighed based on the situation and how high your level of security is. I wouldn't say EVER that anyoen is " asking for it" but if you're going out to an unfamiliar bar without any friends, dressed scantily, and you get drunk and walk off with a total stranger, you have massively increased your risk of becoming a victim. Ok this is really long I know, but it's a big pet peeve of mine and one of the reasons I think that in junior high gym one of the units ought to be self defense and recognizing danger. Women- you need to be on the alert. I think the FBI bar rules are the best
1- Always go to a bar with friends and always promise you will go home together.Even if you meet a nice guy, wait and hook up with him in the daylight
2-When you order a drink either watch the bartender pour it or take it directly from the waitress
3- If you leave the table with an unfinished drink for any reason, always order a fresh one unless your friends were watching the drink for you.
4- Never leave a friend behind. Even if it's a buzzkill go home together.
You do all that and I can pretty much guarantee you won't be one of those statistics of missing /dead women.

Ok getting off soap box now:) Sorry

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Thursday, October 19, 2006 4:23 AM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


BIG HUGS right back my gorgeous MsG!! *rushes to her email to watch it and wait for something from MsG...*

That is such sound advice - you are always looking out for us!! ...and it is usually when someone is saying - "no leave me - I'll be fine..." or giving you the evil eye for not leaving them alone that they need you to be a friend the most and hang around...

...and I agree - self defense or personal security if you will are the only things that I think should be compulsory for school phys ed/gym classes...




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Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:21 AM

JONNYQUEST

"Did he just go crazy and fall asleep?"


Reading this over before posting it, I think it may be my longest post yet. And if you've sampled my work before that's making quite a statement. Also in the time it took me to compose myself and my post, I see MsG beat me to the punch--and did so more eloquently as usual--so some of this might be retreading, but the example is slightly different so maybe it's worth the read anyway.

Howdy to all and maybe a new Imponderable ought to take off soon. I've heard more than one person say it was a chore to catch up.

Quote:

Originally posted by Magdalena:
I did want to clarify that the occassion on which I placed my parteners hand on my suspenders (or 'garter belt' for you American friends)



Thanks for clearing that up!! Over here of course we use suspenders to keep our knickers up. Of course the question now is were they knee-highs or thigh-highs? I've on seen knee-highs on my grandfather...

Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
She's very aware the he's desperately attracted to her. She'll hang off of him, rest her head on him, etc., everything short of actually going out with him. She has a naturally "flirty" disposition and takes no measures to not lead on males whom she knows for a fact are interested in her. It's sickening to watch them all compete and vie for her attention when she has no intention of going anywhere with them. And I know, that's not totally her fault, and I'm just as sickened by the males as I am by her.



I think a lot of us were not aware there was a history involved with this incident, CMH. We may have jumped a bit quickly in some of our responses.

Quote:

Originally posted by DesktopHippie:
So men are helpless bundles of hormones with no willpower to control their biological reactions to the female of the species then. Chris, that's like saying a rapist isn't to blame for raping a woman who wore a short skirt since he wouldn't have been turned on by "sensible" clothing. And that argument, just to be absolutely clear, is a load of bull


Quote:

Originally posted by ChrisMoorhead:
I'm not asking you to absolve them of anything, so your comparison to absolving a rapist of blame is moot. And it's funny that you should bring this particular comparison up, considering that it's gotten me in hot water with several people before. On that note, I'm more than happy to reiterate for a more proper comparison:

Rapists are not to be absolved for raping a woman in revealing clothes. It's certainly her RIGHT to wear those clothes. However, when weighing the options of what risks are worth taking and what risks are not, she has CONTROL over that small portion of it. It is part of her own decision to make herself more or less vulnerable at that point.



I want to be very about this: I do not subscribe to the idea that clothing "causes" rape. However, whenever this argument comes up, I find myself pondering this illustration. If I leave my home unlocked, I am not inviting a burglar. (I grew up in an era in a town where you didn't have to lock your doors. It's not like that anymore, but there's still very little crime and that might be because the town is dying a slow death: nothin' worth stealin'.) If my house is burgled, the burglar is the guilty party, I'm still the victim. Had I locked my door, the burglar may have been dissuaded. May not have, but may have. And of course, I could do alarms and surveilance ad infinitum, too, and still be burgled.

My point is that it is sad that we cannot live in a world where we don't have to lock our doors. It is sad that criminals exist (outlaw Browncoats of course excepted). I should not even feel unsafe in my own home if I left the front door full open. That is not the world in which we live.

Are short skirts beggin' for it? Only in the mind of the rapist. The rest of us smile approvingly and keep to ourselves. If he's predisposed to do his particular brand of evil would more modest dress deter him? Probably not. The question ultimately rests on the comfort level of the potential victim. Should she be judged a loose woman by the public or in the courts? Absolutely not! Should she weigh her options in protecting herself by any means necessary even to the extent of changing her apparel? Me, I lock my house and have an alarm. But I'm not you.

Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
I'll say that, with flirting, it's usually because there is some form of attraction there if it's me. If I flirt it's because I think someone is a great person (or a highly attractive one) even if it's a case of nothing ever coming of it. I have at times crossed the line with a friend, not because of anything in particular, just consistancy. I've backed off on flirting a whole lot lately since I found out I had unintentionally led a friend of mine on. Not sure how to get back into the swing of it, since I seem to need different techniques and don't know where to begin.



Not convinced your technique is off the mark. As Joss has said, "Bring your own subtext". I think the flirt receiver whose attraction is greater, or who is more apt to want to move things along quicker, will generally read more into the harmless flirt than they should. That's on them. And I know you agonize about having to let them down, easy or otherwise, but as one who's regularly overestimated his own sexiness, let me tell you, a) he'll survive and b) if he is at all self-aware he already knows deep down.

"Well, here I am."


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Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:25 AM

KELKHIL


I agree with what you have said MSG except I think that they need to add a little to the instruction.

Reading People. It is a skill that is learned, but it takes an effort to be really good at it. "good vibes" and "bad vibes" type of thing. With some of the jobs I have had, I have learned how to do it really well. It has saved my A*$ a few times. It is very important and takes a cool head to do.
Granted for you beautiful Ladies most guys will put up a front and try to convince you that they are really great guys. If you learn how to do this one skill it will warn you of potential trouble so that you know when it is time to get out.

Most people get the "good vibe, bad vibe" thing and ignore it or don't really know what it means. If they would only learn what it means it could really help them in sticky situations.

Kelkhil

The Shirtless Forsaken

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Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:31 AM

MSG


Well said Jonny:)
Hey here's a ponderable for us...

guys do you prefer women who wear make-up or no make-up and girls do you prefer guys with or without facial hair?>

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:32 AM

MSG


New thread here we go

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=24720

I choose to rise instead of fall- U2



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Thursday, October 19, 2006 5:36 AM

NVGHOSTRIDER


Good Morning everyone. Thursday is upon us. Oh Boy.

Makeup, sure. But I really hate getting it all over my clothes when really close.

Facial hair, okay. I'm lazy and don't grow facial hair so fast. One of the perks of my ethnicity.


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Thursday, October 19, 2006 6:04 AM

RIVERTWIN


Hi all! Sort of first post here...hope it's okay if I chime in.

Quote:

Women- you need to be on the alert. I think the FBI bar rules are the best
1- Always go to a bar with friends and always promise you will go home together.Even if you meet a nice guy, wait and hook up with him in the daylight
2-When you order a drink either watch the bartender pour it or take it directly from the waitress
3- If you leave the table with an unfinished drink for any reason, always order a fresh one unless your friends were watching the drink for you.
4- Never leave a friend behind. Even if it's a buzzkill go home together.
You do all that and I can pretty much guarantee you won't be one of those statistics of missing /dead women.

Ok getting off soap box now:) Sorry



I completely agree. One of my friends had a scary situation at a bar (and she WAS with her friends) where at some point someone managed to put something in her drink. She went to the bathroom and was in there for so long that our friend went to check on her. She found her unconscious in the stall and had to crawl under to get her out. She'd only had 2 drinks and was in no way drunk, let alone enough to pass out. Her husband is a cop and was righteously pissed when he found out someone had drugged her. I don't understand why people have to do things like that! Why not just be nice? It's not that hard.

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