GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly- The Animated Series

POSTED BY: MANGOLO
UPDATED: Friday, February 2, 2007 05:08
SHORT URL:
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Friday, January 12, 2007 11:52 AM

MAL4PREZ


My feeling is this: Joss would likely only get behind this if there was truly no hope of continuing the `verse in any other way. (Besides the comics, which are completely unsatisfying. IMHO, they don't count.)

So, the question I'm seeing here is: if it was animation or nothing, what would I take? Duh!!

Obviously I'd vastly prefer a return to the live action TV series, or the big screen, but if I can't have either of those I'll take the cartoon. Who knows, if it's successful, it could be a bridge to getting our live series back (probably not what you want to hear, mangolo. Sorry!)

However, I do think you'll have a hard time wrestling the rights away from the f**ks at fox. Even if you manage to get Joss and the actors on board. Have you looked into this problem at all?

Keep us posted!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.

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Sunday, January 14, 2007 2:18 PM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
My feeling is this: Joss would likely only get behind this if there was truly no hope of continuing the `verse in any other way. (Besides the comics, which are completely unsatisfying. IMHO, they don't count.)

So, the question I'm seeing here is: if it was animation or nothing, what would I take? Duh!!

Obviously I'd vastly prefer a return to the live action TV series, or the big screen, but if I can't have either of those I'll take the cartoon. Who knows, if it's successful, it could be a bridge to getting our live series back (probably not what you want to hear, mangolo. Sorry!)

However, I do think you'll have a hard time wrestling the rights away from the f**ks at fox. Even if you manage to get Joss and the actors on board. Have you looked into this problem at all?

Keep us posted!

-----------------------------------------------
I'm the president. I don't need to listen.



We might be able to skirt Fox' rights depending on how those rights are recorded. We know Fox would get all over us on broadcast television, but maybe they'd slide us in at night, if not we wouldl be releasing it in multiple formats for download and on DVD. Remember if we had the green light today, you wouldn't see anything for about 2 years. By that time downloads will be much more common and we are betting, even dominant, in the sci-fi genre.

We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

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Sunday, January 14, 2007 6:25 PM

MICJWELCH


I really think anybody here who says that they wouldn't like it would probably watch it anyway. If people don't think that emotions can be portrayed properly in animation, they should look at Toy Story (also written by Joss Whedon). They're toys. And we love them.

I take it your animation style is actually similar to Titan AE (more Joss Whedon, actually).

I would LOVE to see this in an animated series. I've suggested this once before, actually, but we don't often get anyone reading these posts that can do it.



"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Sunday, January 14, 2007 10:46 PM

MANGOLO


I posted this on another Firefly board:

I do want to be clear - this is not going to be a cartoon in any sense of the word. There will be no cartoony look. Here is a sample of the look from "strange frame" our current project. This is not artwork - this is the actual animation ready head. (Yes, we know it looks like Morgan Freeman)


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Sunday, January 14, 2007 11:27 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


I'd love to see this. In fact, since 'Batman' has now been updated to a heavy tech kids show, I think there's a real opening for a more adult cartoon series. Anyone else remember that Batman animated series in the late nineties? The one that was very cool and gothic looking?

I know that 'Gargoyles' had a huge adult fanbase too.

Short answer - yes. Definately yes. Go for it!




Graphics available at www.desktophippie.com

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Monday, January 15, 2007 1:49 AM

ANNIE


With the same cast and characters? I am most definitely in. I would even run right out and buy direct-to-dvd anything FF related.

Sex and violence on the big screen, where it belongs.

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Monday, January 15, 2007 4:41 AM

DONCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Mangolo:
We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

I think this is a significant concern.

One issue that any on-demand distibution scheme is up against is the fact that it's, well, on demand. That is, no one is likely to find it unless they're looking for it. That works fine for the diehards like us. Goodness knows we're looking!

But how will that work for the casual viewer, those four million or so who tuned in to the Firefly broadcasts during its first run? For many of those folks, the show has long since drifted out of their awareness. The lack of a big audience for Serenity was an indication of that.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'll venture to say that a marketing campaign will have to be part of it. So you should plan (and budget for) some kind of advertising blitz -- perhaps 15 second spots during whatever popular SF shows are on the air then, plus online ads that show up in search engines when people specify that sort of material.

That could get expensive quickly, so it should be part of the calculations right from the start.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Monday, January 15, 2007 4:53 AM

CORNCOBB


You've got my support. Joss writing and the original cast voicing the characters? Sounds shiney

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Monday, January 15, 2007 8:51 AM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:
Quote:

Originally posted by Mangolo:
We did a rough work up on budget. Our episodes would run less than half of what the live action episodes ran at. The problem is we are not sure we can capture half the Firefly market with animation. Our preliminary market survery shows at least 65% of diehard fans would definitely watch the show. We think that in the general Firefly audience, these numbers might be considerably less.

Your thoughts?

I think this is a significant concern.

One issue that any on-demand distibution scheme is up against is the fact that it's, well, on demand. That is, no one is likely to find it unless they're looking for it. That works fine for the diehards like us. Goodness knows we're looking!

But how will that work for the casual viewer, those four million or so who tuned in to the Firefly broadcasts during its first run? For many of those folks, the show has long since drifted out of their awareness. The lack of a big audience for Serenity was an indication of that.

I don't know what the answer is, but I'll venture to say that a marketing campaign will have to be part of it. So you should plan (and budget for) some kind of advertising blitz -- perhaps 15 second spots during whatever popular SF shows are on the air then, plus online ads that show up in search engines when people specify that sort of material.

That could get expensive quickly, so it should be part of the calculations right from the start.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!



We are working on it. We have a lot of experience with web marketing. We have been contracted by Universal and others for such work and have garnered millions of hits for these entities. No worries there.




>

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Monday, January 15, 2007 9:38 PM

MANGOLO


I'm posting this response from another Firefly forum just FYI:

Thanks for the kudos. We are humble animators who love our jobs.

As for the production question - regardless of live action or animation - pre-production and production happens completely before a season begins, usually only post and the last couple of episodes of a show are produced during the actual season.

As far as the format, if this starts looking like we have a solid market, we will approach Joss. We'd only do this if he himself wrote the opening episode and him or his team would write the series. Once we have negotiated that (and which of our arms and legs Joss wants as far as ownership), we'd take the package to FOX and/or SCI-FI and others to see if they are willing to foot the bill and in what form. If none bite, we'd go it alone. I think first season would be 4-6 episodes available for download, pay per view, DVD, Blu-Ray, and HD DVD. We'd roll the income straight into the second season.

Honestly, we are not in this to make a bunch of money. We live in Hawaii and are doing well just working on our projects here, but we'd really love the opportunity to work with Joss, learn from him and further our style of animation. We also have an outreach program for disadvantaged kids to intern with our company. A regular show would allow us to expand that program and help even more young talented kids from the surrounding economically depressed areas.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:56 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Keep us posted as to any developments on this front Mangolo.

Personally, I am a little more optimistic in my belief that you would get more than 1/2 of the browncoats to watch an animated series. The main reason being that we are all so anxious for a continuation of the story that I doubt many would truly care what the medium, so long as the story is being told.

Take care and keep flyin'!


__________________________________________
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Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:39 AM

JERAXUS




im fore it

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:42 AM

DONCOAT


Mangolo,

Is there a sample of your animation anywhere that's available for (free) download? Even a low-res clip on YouTube would be nice to get an idea of the dynamics you can do. The stills are impressive, but it would be great to see how the characters move.

You should probably have something of that nature available before you approach The Boss, since you'll need to prove your animation techniques are suitable for our beloved 'verse. Obviously the clip wouldn't necessarily have to be a Firefly scene, just something in the style you're proposing to use (or similar).


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 4:47 AM

WALRUS


Indeed, a sample of your work would be greatly apreciated

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 8:14 AM

MANGOLO


Here is our current trailer for strange frame It is in Quicktime 7, so if you don't have that installed you'll only get sound.

http://www.strangeframe.com/new_trailer.htm

If you want the motion sample, watch it all the way through. We have it start slow and build.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 10:52 AM

WILDHEAVENFARM


We know that most of the cast does voice acting. Hell, half of them were on Justice League.

I would be all for that if it was done to continue the show and not just cash in on the rabid nature of the fan cult. When you picture it, what style do you see? By which I mean, can you site a current program that looks like what you see?

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:09 AM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by History:
Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History



I blame it on the collective unconscious. Shelley and I began development on our "fix everything that is wrong with Trek" show in 1999. No aliens, no FTL, no white male lead whose name starts with J (really think about it SGA, SG1, Jeremiah, B5, STOS, STNG, etc). and of course people swearing in Chinese (damn Joss we were on the same page!!!) We began our ad campaign in 2001, within a few months of our original pitch "You're trapped in a fishbowl without walls, falling endlessly around a flickering candle. No hokey hyperdrives. No Federations or galactic empires. The speed of light chains everyone to the same star: step too far away and the Long Dark will eat you alive." - Firefly came along as the new 'anti-Trek' (NY Times) and we thought we were dead and indeed our chance for a TV series became limited - MTV offered to buy our idea, but we weren't selling - we wanted to make this stuff ourselves! We ditched the TV series and wrote a screenplay that takes place just before the TV scripts. We raised a chunk of change (not the full budget) and went into production in 2004. Those ships were designed in 2001 based on some models we actually bought at that time. (So it is not just our minds tapped into this stuff). There is definitely some similarities between River and Naia, but all written before Shelley and I had seen Firefly (you can check our WGA registration!), but our flick is about fringe musicians and a space trucker named Grenman who hauls them around.





>

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:12 AM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by lokie:
I say your on the right beat. I do Maya 6.0 and Lightwave btw :) I wonder if we could put together a group of 200ppl to work on the series. You remember the Halo 2 animations don't you? Well, with grade a graphics, which takes nothing more than time and effort, that which we have :). We could make it look downright real. real enough anyways. If we could get the cast to do voice overs, we could do it as a non-profit thing. That's where the 200ppl come in :P since we'd all just be doing what we can as we can. I believe after a years worth of work on the verse ships and crew, then we could follow with animations every month or so at the very least. Either a 30minz episode every week or a movie every month would be great. But I do wonder about the time it would take to create the verse and the crew, cuz that would be the biggest portion of production. But once we got all that implimented, animating our creations should go pretty smoothly. I'm willing to help anyways, SHINY IDEA!!!



Please send us samples!!!

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 11:16 AM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by WildHeavenFarm:
We know that most of the cast does voice acting. Hell, half of them were on Justice League.

I would be all for that if it was done to continue the show and not just cash in on the rabid nature of the fan cult. When you picture it, what style do you see? By which I mean, can you site a current program that looks like what you see?

Mary
Always a beast, never a burden.



No. We have our own style (check out the link above). I think this could work in other styles, but would be best served by ours. I want to mention for all those who love Firefly and animation, they should check out Cowboy Bebop in the unedited form.

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 12:09 PM

DOCTROID


Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting. But honestly, I don't see anything in it that would persuade me you can do something that'd capture anything like the style of "Firefly". This is not to assert that you can't, of course, only that your trailer isn't the proof. Certainly it seems your characters are visually rather stylized and, I have to say, not particularly "deep" in the sense of moving with the subtlety of a real person. And given that, to me, the whole point of "Firefly" is that these are real people, I don't think doing it in this kind of style would work well.

The more I think about it, the more I think I would not be likely to enjoy an animated "Firefly" with the original characters. Yet, possibly, a series about different people in the same 'verse might work... if you can find a way of de-emphasizing the people while still presenting good stories.

But all in all, I'd feel a lot better about a live action "Firefly".

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:29 PM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.



Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...







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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 1:54 PM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Flyvote:
Quote:

Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.



Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...



Many thanks for your honesty. I think we are going to scrap this pursuit...for now. After our feature film is complete we will revisit the idea with you all and Joss.

Keep Flyin'

GB

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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 2:07 PM

FLYVOTE


Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



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Tuesday, January 16, 2007 6:13 PM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc



Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:00 PM

HISTORY


Quote:

Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:

Originally posted by History:
Mangolo,
I also checked out your site and trailer for StangeFrame: Love and Sax
http://www.strangeframe.com/trailers.htm

Very nice.
And was it my imagination or were those Firefly-like class vessels in the trailer and a "save River"-like theme as part of the storyline?

However, if your output for this project is "Fall 2009", a Firefly/Serenity animated project would be many years away, would it not?

Respectfully,
History



I blame it on the collective unconscious. Shelley and I began development on our "fix everything that is wrong with Trek" show in 1999. No aliens, no FTL, no white male lead whose name starts with J (really think about it SGA, SG1, Jeremiah, B5, STOS, STNG, etc). and of course people swearing in Chinese (damn Joss we were on the same page!!!) We began our ad campaign in 2001, within a few months of our original pitch "You're trapped in a fishbowl without walls, falling endlessly around a flickering candle. No hokey hyperdrives. No Federations or galactic empires. The speed of light chains everyone to the same star: step too far away and the Long Dark will eat you alive." - Firefly came along as the new 'anti-Trek' (NY Times) and we thought we were dead and indeed our chance for a TV series became limited - MTV offered to buy our idea, but we weren't selling - we wanted to make this stuff ourselves! We ditched the TV series and wrote a screenplay that takes place just before the TV scripts. We raised a chunk of change (not the full budget) and went into production in 2004. Those ships were designed in 2001 based on some models we actually bought at that time. (So it is not just our minds tapped into this stuff). There is definitely some similarities between River and Naia, but all written before Shelley and I had seen Firefly (you can check our WGA registration!), but our flick is about fringe musicians and a space trucker named Grenman who hauls them around.




[IMG][/IMG]



Thanks for the background, Mangalo.
I wasn't being accusing, just admiring.
There are only 2 or 3 original archetypal stories in existence anyway.
The rest are just different retellings.

Good luck.

Respectfully,
History

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 2:10 PM

HISTORY


Quote:

Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:

Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc



Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!


Ignore the wet blankets.
Invest, invest, invest.
Animation is a completely different media.
And you do animation very well.
If we Browncoats insist on only the live actor tv/film media, we're cheating ourselves of more good stories and adventures in the 'Verse.

If B3 was any example, Browncoats will spend our "greenbacks" on anything that show's love of the 'Verse and keeps us flyin'.

Just do it.

Respectfully,
History

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Thursday, January 18, 2007 9:22 PM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by History:
Quote:

Originally posted by Mangolo:
Quote:

Originally posted by Flyvote:
Ouch. I feel like the nail in the coffin.



---- ---- ---- ---- ----

Flyvote (version 1.2):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc



Don't. We were exploring whether to invest time and energy at this stage or after the film. We will definitely revisit this in a couple of years. Maybe Firefly Season 2 will happen before that!!!


Ignore the wet blankets.
Invest, invest, invest.
Animation is a completely different media.
And you do animation very well.
If we Browncoats insist on only the live actor tv/film media, we're cheating ourselves of more good stories and adventures in the 'Verse.

If B3 was any example, Browncoats will spend our "greenbacks" on anything that show's love of the 'Verse and keeps us flyin'.

Just do it.

Respectfully,
History



Thanks for the encouragement. We just believe once our film is done and this new style is more broadly accepted (we have 3 million hits on our website), we will have a better chance at securing a large market. It is not so much about the money, as building a entity that can support itself outside the FOX world. The Idea: Not dead, just resting.

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Friday, January 19, 2007 1:23 AM

MALSNARA


yup yup defo any kind of continuation of firefly or serenity is a must!

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Friday, January 19, 2007 1:07 PM

PHYRELIGHT


I'd watch or buy anything that continues the Firefly/Serenity saga. So, DEFINATELY YES!!!!!!

_______________________________________________________

The Whedonverse:
Where all the women are strong...
All the men are good-looking...
And, all the children are weapons of mass distruction.

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 4:05 PM

MICJWELCH


I fail to understand why people feel that animation can not do what live action can. In many respects it can do more.

For some reason, I can't seem to get the trailer you linked to come up for me, so I don't know exactly what you have going on there, but from your stills and the enthusiasm you have about your work it looks good.

I'm studying computer animation right now. Believe me, if this were something I had the means to work on, I'd be all over it.

Bottom line - We'd watch it. We'd all watch it. And we'd love it.



"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Sunday, January 21, 2007 11:02 PM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by micjwelch:
I fail to understand why people feel that animation can not do what live action can. In many respects it can do more.

For some reason, I can't seem to get the trailer you linked to come up for me, so I don't know exactly what you have going on there, but from your stills and the enthusiasm you have about your work it looks good.

I'm studying computer animation right now. Believe me, if this were something I had the means to work on, I'd be all over it.

Bottom line - We'd watch it. We'd all watch it. And we'd love it.



You need QT7 installed

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Monday, January 22, 2007 4:02 AM

MICJWELCH


Are you really giving up on the idea of making the animated series? I was under the impression that the purpose of this forum was to get the attention of someone who had the means to continue the series, and yet somehow we have convinced you not to do it. What do we have to do to convince you that it's a good idea?



"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Monday, January 22, 2007 7:53 PM

MANGOLO


I went to 4 different boards. About 65% of people are pro animate. The rest aren't too fond of the idea, but not against it. These are the die hard fans. I think given these numbers we can't do it at this point. After our feature film comes out and hopefully does as well as we think it will, WE WILL revisit this idea. So not dead yet, just resting, eh?


BTW I am at Sundance Film Fest right now. Saw Chispen Glover yesterday. Talked to Leisha Hailey and Katherine Moennig about our movie.

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 12:42 PM

GREENFAERIE


Great. I never figured some of us Browncoats would be so negative about a possible new way to have us some new Firefly, so much so that the whole idea has been squelched. Way to go guys.



http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

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Thursday, January 25, 2007 7:06 PM

IREMIST


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
Great. I never figured some of us Browncoats would be so negative about a possible new way to have us some new Firefly, so much so that the whole idea has been squelched. Way to go guys.


Honey, If I could blend up Firefly and find a way to inject it in my veins and cure this gorram itch, I'd do it, but I'd have to go with the naysayers on this one. A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)not to mention environment and emotional portrayal. I own the graffic novel, and I spent half the time reading it thinking that the way they were drawn was somewhat wooden.

I think I'd be more apt to embrace a new crew(with visitations from our favs, of course) before I'd embrace an anime crew...



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Friday, January 26, 2007 5:58 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Iremist:
A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)

*contemplates saying something, then decides that if Iremist doesn't already know, s/he probably doesn't want to*

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, January 26, 2007 6:12 AM

IREMIST


Yes, Cybersnark, I know all about hentai....
more than I ever wanted to know...sorry, animated Cinderella and and Prince Charming don't do it for me!

In the immortal words from the Man in Black
"Flesh and blood needs flesh and blood" and I need actual Firefly not the watered-down version...

My hubby died his browncoat black for those that have gone before...

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Friday, January 26, 2007 1:15 PM

GREENFAERIE


Quote:

Originally posted by Iremist:
I need actual Firefly not the watered-down version...



I'm thinking there's a problem with your brain being missing. No one is saying you can't have the "real" version if the animated version is made. It might even help the cause.

Why did you buy the comics? It wasn't live action. If you had known about it beforehand, would you have denounced it as a watered-down version and beg for it not to happen? Poppycock.

Why deny all of the other fans some semblance of Firefly just because you want the original format? And if the original cast were doing the voice acting, and if Joss was doing the writing, I'd bet you'd be tempted to watch an animated show. Hell, even Joss said he'd do Firefly in alternative formats if he could.


http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

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Friday, January 26, 2007 1:19 PM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Iremist:
A big part of the draw was the sex appeal(which would be hard and somewhat awkward to accomplish with anime)not to mention environment and emotional portrayal.

And there was me thinking it was the story lines and character development.

Hentai is not a city in Japan is all...



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, January 26, 2007 2:52 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by GreenFaerie:
No one is saying you can't have the "real" version if the animated version is made. It might even help the cause.

Like how animated Trek kept the dream alive and built interest in the franchise.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Friday, January 26, 2007 3:19 PM

MICJWELCH


I too am extremely disappointed that we have convinced someone NOT to continue Firefly. All because we think it wouldn't be good enough for us. Joss is used to writing animation. He would do extremely well with it. And we found someone willing to do it. Then we told him not to.

What's wrong with this picture?! How did we let this happen?!



"We may experience some slight turbulence, and then... explode."

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Friday, January 26, 2007 9:07 PM

NOSADSEVEN


For the record, count me in as part of the 65% that would absolutely buy an animated Joss & original cast continuation of Serenity. I am not a fan of animation, and I would prefer live action. But my overriding preference is for something to keep this ship flying... and what that something can be is already fairly limited without my own imposed restrictions.

As active as the online fandom is, it is already just a shadow of its former self. I'd hate to see this fandom fade away with no new material to discuss, because we were too picky about the medium. I mean, I'm all for being too picky about the creative team and the cast, but if they think it'll work, I'm willing to grant them the benefit of the doubt and follow them in to a new medium.

So instead of looking at what it is, look at what it can be. There's a lot of potential for animation, things that can be covered that would be very difficult in live action format - even things like Book's past, where the ages of the actors would be far less restricting to how the story could be told. And even if an animated series is not what we all want it to be, the influx and anticipation of new material will continue to stoke the flames until the next opportunity arises.

Anyway, here's a somewhat relevant excerpt from a recap of Joss's recent Fanboy Radio interview:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=93856
Quote:

In regards to more Serenity/Firefly comics, "We are doing another limited series, me and Brett Matthews are writing a new 3-issue Firefly comic series called Better Days that I’m not positive is coming out in the Spring. I’m not as interested as continuing with an actual series, a long-term comic book because there is something about the process of making Firefly that I’m closer to than I’ve ever been and a lot of that has to do with the actors… the Serenity crew – the way they cohered as a group was unlike anything I’ve ever experienced… If it was animated and they were doing the voices, if it was done like A Scanner Darkly, if it was on radio – all of those things would be interesting to me because I would be able to get the actors. To me, the characters just don’t exist without those actors… I don’t see it being something printed so much as someway to get back with them and continue our party that was our party.” And later, Joss adds, “Shepherd Book’s past would definitely be an element of whatever other story I could tell (with the actors). But ultimately, if I find that this is simply not to be, then, you know, I’ll just go online.”

The magic of Firefly transcended what showed up on our screens, and keeping everyone involved and connected is the best way to keep that magic alive and to enjoy the fruit it bears.

Thank you, Mangolo, for pursuing this, now or in the future. Joss has said many times that he's just waiting for the phone to ring, and while your call might not be the one he's waiting for, just maybe it is.

~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ain't. We. Just.

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 12:45 AM

MANGOLO


A very encouraging and well researched response nosadseven. Like I said, I will be revisiting this after we complete our current project strange frame.


I just want to say that Sundance Film Festival was an incredible experience. I made a bunch of deals for my film and for projects to keep my company expanding so we can do bigger and bigger projects.


I met some great people there like Jason Momoa (the dude is TALL) from Stargate:





I also met Darren Aronofsky (Pi and Requiem for a Dream).





I encourage everyone to see his new movie The Fountain.


Keep flyin'


GB





>

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 4:47 AM

DONCOAT


To all who have complained about the folks who posted responses that were negative on the proposed animated series, I'd like to ask:

Would you rather that people had lied about it, or not posted an honest answer? What possible positive outcome would that have had?

Let's say this thread had been nothing but a pep rally for Mangolo and Co., and that they had jumped into this project with both feet expecting 100% support from the fan community. Further suppose they got Joss and the actors on board and made the series.

Now imagine that the animated series was completed and released, and instead of overwhelming response, fewer than 65% of even the hardcore fans supported it. Where does that leave Mangolo? Where does that leave the franchise?

Far better to give an honest opinion now than a hypocritical (and un-critical) high five that leads to a huge failure. As if that's what we need!

Kudos to those who spoke from the heart in this thread, whether pro or con. We have enough fanboys and fangirls. What we need now is intelligent planners, and they can't function without reliable information.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:48 AM

CLERICPRESTON


Quote:

Originally posted by shameless:
I dunno, animated seems kinda... eh. Maybe. I dunno how well each character and the chemistry of the ensemble would come through if it wasn't live action.!"



Nothing wrong with animation. Ok, a whole lot is wrong with the majority of western cartoons, however, very little is wrong with Japanese animation. One of the greatest and most widely respected Sci-Fi films of all time, Ghost in the Shell (originally a manga series), is an anime production. The Matrix owes a lot to GitS, the brothers openly admitting it's influence on the original production. If an animated Firefly series were to come to being, a company such as Production IG should handle the animation (coincidently they are responsible for all Ghost in the Shell animation, but you'll probably have seen their violent animated segment of Kill Bill: Vol. 1). It is notable that animated productions require far, far smaller budgets than their live action counterparts, and most usually sport very impressive animation quality and voice acting (Ghost in the Shell: Solid State Society, released late last year in Japan, had a budget of only aproximately $3.2 Million inclusive of advertising, and is set to enjoy a fruitful release in the US and EU later this year). Original voice actors, with Whedon attached to write and direct, and Production IG covering animation, would certainly make something worthy of the Firefly name.

However, I have a motto that applies to situations such as these; What starts animation, stays animation, and what starts live action, stays live action.

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 6:33 AM

CLERICPRESTON


Quote:

Originally posted by Flyvote:
Quote:

Originally posted by doctroid:
Having watched the trailer, I'd say... Interesting.



Yes interesting.

But not what it takes to do Firefly.

Animate the VERY subtle expressions on Nathan/Mal's face when Saffron tells him he is her wife? No. With any type of animation it would come out anything but subtle.

Show Inara's eyes with animation? The very low signal level she gives Mal when he asks her a question at the end of that episode cannot be done with computer animation. Watch that sequence. Watch here eyes as he gets her to "admit" to kissing Saffron, and the oh-so-slight conveyance of emotion that barely shows when Mal leaves having guessed wrong.

Firefly is full of that intangible level of expression. Can't be done with computer animation.

Your animation, Mangolo, is artistic and impressive. But just not human and expressive. I'll watch what you do, and if it ends up being Firefly, I'll watch it likely only once. Not over and over and um, over...



Oks.. how much animation have you seen? The level of emotion captured in some animated productions is staggering. A lot depends on the voice actors, but a lot can be accomplished with a steady hand, a tablet and Photoshop (of course, far from an exhaustive collection of tools required). Hey, try watching the jokingly-exagerrated cel-shaded FMVs of the two great Playstation survival horror games Fear Effect 1 and 2, and you'll see emotion captured by animation. I'm guessing you lack of experience in the animation field, and selective viewing are what blinds you to the capabilites of the field of animation.

However, my honest opinion is only a well respected animation studio, with much experience, should be trusted with something like Firefly. After all, we can't risk a failure.

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 7:09 AM

FLYVOTE


I'm not going to let this degrade into harsh insults and pointless arguing.

An opinion was solicited, I contributed.

I didn't stop the project. I'm not in charge. It isn't my decision.

According to Mangolo the project hasn't been trashed, only delayed. It was his decision to do so.

Any arguing that my opinion should be disregarded because my experience doesn't meet your standards is pretty much against the spirit of free input/opinion that Mangolo requested.

That's all I'll say about this. It isn't my mind that you need to change.



---- ---- ---- ---- ----
FlyVote (version 1.4):
http://www.usbmicro.com/misc
For Windows/Linux/MacOS9/MacOSX

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 11:21 AM

MANGOLO


Quote:

Originally posted by DonCoat:
To all who have complained about the folks who posted responses that were negative on the proposed animated series, I'd like to ask:

Would you rather that people had lied about it, or not posted an honest answer? What possible positive outcome would that have had?

Let's say this thread had been nothing but a pep rally for Mangolo and Co., and that they had jumped into this project with both feet expecting 100% support from the fan community. Further suppose they got Joss and the actors on board and made the series.

Now imagine that the animated series was completed and released, and instead of overwhelming response, fewer than 65% of even the hardcore fans supported it. Where does that leave Mangolo? Where does that leave the franchise?

Far better to give an honest opinion now than a hypocritical (and un-critical) high five that leads to a huge failure. As if that's what we need!

Kudos to those who spoke from the heart in this thread, whether pro or con. We have enough fanboys and fangirls. What we need now is intelligent planners, and they can't function without reliable information.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!



I totally concur.



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Sunday, January 28, 2007 2:38 PM

GREENFAERIE


Those of us that support an animated Firefly aren't disappointed that we got some honest opinions. At least not me. I appreciate the honesty. What perplexes me is what those opinions expressed: that animation wouldn't fly, and that it shouldn't even be attempted.

Why not? What if it actually exceeds your expectations? Why not support the idea on principle - that it would be more Firefly! Even if it's not half bad, it's better than nothing.

Personally I've bought every piece of Firefly related merchandise I could find, regardless of my expectations. I got the comics, and though I was not terribly impressed, I am still glad to have them. I got the trading cards. Nice, but it's nothing new. I got some Serenity money, and it's basically a few sheets of printed paper that's toitally unimpressive. If they released Firefly toilet paper I'd buy it. Anything I can do to keep Firefly alive is what I'd do. I'm disappointed that some of us are not nearly as dedicated.

But I still respect your honesty.


http://home.nycap.rr.com/wydraz/firefly

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Sunday, January 28, 2007 5:17 PM

RUNA27


A bit OT, but...

Quote:

I got some Serenity money, and it's basically a few sheets of printed paper that's toitally unimpressive.


What? Seriously? I bought me one of the last few framed displays of that that PropStore.com even had. I was totally ecstatic! It's incredibly pretty (and kinda trippy!). I wish U.S. currency was like that. :D

Then again, that's the framed display... with laser-cut velvet-and-gold mats that have the logo and all. It's considerably cooler-looking that way.

...

If you DID get a display, as opposed to the pieces on their own, BTW, I highly recommend opening up the back and seeing if they used masking tape to hold the pieces down on yours, like they did on mine. At this point in time, you won't see any damage, but that kind of tape is acidic, and can acid-burn mats and paper within a few years. I tested mine with a PH pen, and thankfully, the tape was the only non-archival piece they used (mats were acid-free and all, even the cardboard backing was acid-free, even though that's usually an acidic material; they also assured me before I bought it that the glue was acid-free that they used to hold down the actual paper). But it's really better to have mylar or acid-free Artist's Tape on there. It's fairly easy to replace even by yourself, actually.

...

And don't hang it in direct sunlight, it could fade. And keep it in air-conditioning if possible. And you may or may not want to replace the Perspex "glass" (basically plexiglas under a different brand), which may or may not have UV blockers in it.

...'course, that assumes you bought the display. If not, just make sure you store it in a cool, dry place, out of the light if you can and NOT between cardboard that hasn't been deacidified (I'd recommend using at least one piece of acid-free mat board or deacidified cardboard to make sure it stays "flat" and doesn't get crinkled or torn, but you can either store it between two of those or in one of those mylar bags they make for storing comic books in, or even in some photo/art portfolio albums, so long as any materials in them are "acid-free, lignin-free", and it's kept relatively flat).

...

Gorram roots will always show, won't they? (My parents are picture-framers/art restorers. I suppose it had to soak in some time... :P)

Yeah. That was totally OT. Sorry, just couldn't resist commenting!

-Jamie

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