GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

A mile in their shoes... Fox Execs

POSTED BY: DECAF
UPDATED: Thursday, February 1, 2007 07:11
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Sunday, January 28, 2007 9:17 PM

DECAF


Perhaps incompetance is the reason, but I doubt it. People think even if their decisions make no sense to those of us with different goals and information. So I'm curious to hear what others think might have been Firefly's downfall. Too expensive? Too politically risky?

They had so many reasons to treat Firefly well, so there has to be some compelling reasons (even if flawed) not to. What do you think?

_________________________________
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."
- Abraham Lincoln

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Monday, January 29, 2007 2:14 AM

ZZETTA13


An answer to your question Decaf, IMHO they (F*X) weren't prepared for what they got. I've been in the workforce for over 30 years and I understand when a boss tells you he (or she) wants something done a certain way what they mean. They will never say they want a half-ass job or something done quickly to fill in some time. They will always say they want your BEST effort.

Well Joss and company gave them a pretty darn good effort with the creation of FF. They just didn't know how to handle it. I didn't see the tv series when it originaly came out,but putting it on friday night where it would draw the least amount of it's target audience isn't a good thing. Then wanting Joss to make changes and airing the show out of sequence surely didn't help. What were they thinking?

I'm sure in television entertainment just as in everything else there are negetive salesmen telling higher-ups when they've made a mistake. The numbers weren't there for FF and it was pointed out to F*X exects. The show was pulled and replaced with other programing. There was an OUT-CRY. Sorry to say that I wasn't part of that either. Anyhoo, it lead to the making of the BDM and if it hadn't been for that I would have never found FF or the work of JW. The fanship of FF can take a bow for that and for bringing many others into the fold. That said I understand that the show was making no money so it was pulled.

Now as for the reason why Firefly is not back on tv? I have my opinions that will remain with me at the moment but I can say that it does include television politics.

Z

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Monday, January 29, 2007 2:38 AM

JOSSISAGOD


In my opinion, Firefly's downfall, was that the Fox execs skipped The Pilot, and forced Joss to scramble together another episode over a weekend! Having skipped the pilot made it harder for unconverted Joss fans to understand Firefly's premiss.

Fe'nos Tol
JOSSIS(Most Definitely)AGOD

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Monday, January 29, 2007 3:33 AM

DUG


I was in broadcast at the time, so let me shed some light on the cashy money side of the world.

The bubble began bursting on the economy in 2000 and advertising revenue dried up. That was a driving reason behind all of the reality shows that cropped up, they were CHEAP enough to make a profit in a dry period. The 9/11 happened and the advertising revenue dropped to almost nothing for the first part of 2002 and took over a year to climb back up.

Consider what the execs were dealing with:
---a show they did not personally understand.
---a blend of 2 genres, neither of which had been profitable on tv in recent history
---a show with a budget that seemed huge compared to the cheap shows they were leaning towards
---bosses and shareholders screaming bloody murder due to lowered profits

I don't agree with their idiocy on the matter, but understanding the pressures they were scrambling under may help explain why they were making the idiotic decisions.

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Monday, January 29, 2007 3:36 AM

YINYANG

You were busy trying to get yourself lit on fire. It happens.


They probably didn't think it was gonna make them the quick bucks that things like the O.C. (ew) or other shows made them. Also, they probably believed that Firefly was going to bring in their target demographic (and they were right - it brought more). They had it in their minds that the show was gonna do poorly, so it did.

'Course, somebody should have been slapped silly when they saw the DVD sales. And I sure hope they were flabbergasted at the movie!

Don't worry, F*X got what it deserved... shame, humiliation, and really bad television (except for House, which must be F*X's miracle show).


Rules: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=22892
Voting: http://www.wunschliste.de/index.pl?vote&r=09

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Monday, January 29, 2007 3:59 AM

WANWEITRIP


Now all those cashy money reasons make sense to me. I understand. Free-to-air TV is nothing but ads with shows between them to sucker us in with,but what I will never understand is the penchant of TV execs to show episodes out of order!!! >:(

If a show has an arc or ANY kind of character development - DON'T DO IT!

Aaargh. I think I burst a blood vessel.



Ah, the pitter patter of tiny feet in huge combat boots... SHUT UP!!!

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Monday, January 29, 2007 4:18 AM

DEEPGIRL187


This has always been something that I've wondered, but is it a possibility that Joss may have made someone angry? One of the higher ups, perhaps? I mean, when you look at the history of all of his shows, there is sort of a pattern. Angel had consistent ratings (even if they weren't the highest), and it was still cancelled. We all know about Firefly's debacle, what with the changing time slots, and showing the episodes out of order. So it really makes me wonder if someone has it out for Joss.

*************************************************

"I suppose if we couldn't laugh at things that don't make sense, we couldn't react to a lot of life."

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Monday, January 29, 2007 4:53 AM

CYBERSNARK


My pet theory: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=24101#381418

Quote:

I recently finished reading Jill Sherwin's Sailing the Slipstream: An Unofficial and Unauthorized Guide to Gene Roddenberry's Andromeda, and it made me realize something about the studio/network politics that may have underpined Firefly's cancellation.

To summarize, Andromeda began as a really good show that was derailed by a string of disasters (the show-runner [Robert Hewitt Wolfe] was fired from his own show, two different groups of network suits each tried to recreate the show in their image, dumbing the ongoing arc down to a stand-alone weekly "action-hour," they had very little budget to begin with, and it kept getting reduced as the show went on [even as they were being ordered to do bigger and better FX/action scenes], etc). Sherwin identifies the two main problems as budget (as RHW said; not enough money to execute an actual sci-fi show) and the policies of Tribune/Fireworks, the co-producing organizations.

In Firefly's case, budget doesn't seem to have been a problem, but some of Wolfe's comments about Tribune made me see Fox in a new light.

See, Tribune Entertainment (the dominant half of Andromeda's backing) was initially a newspaper company. Even though they diversified into media and entertainment, they still tended to think like newspaper people.

I'm not up on the Fox Network's history, but when I turn on my TV, Fox News tends to be the most-advertised thing they run. Fox News footage turns up everywhere from CNN to Comedy Central. They're the ones with the political commentary, the government apologists, etc. I wouldn't be surprised to hear that Murdoch (and probably most of Fox's executives) cut his/their teeth in journalism.

The thing about news is that it's disposable. That's why it's so sensationalized; the point is to sell papers. Then, within 24 hours, they'll be wrapping fish in it, 'cause the next edition is coming out. Staying power isn't a factor. It's not that they don't want it, it's that they genuinely don't understand how it could work that way. Nobody talks about last week's headlines. They aren't looking to make a big impression, 'cause they expect that you'll have moved on to the next big thing by tomorrow (as they will have).

This is where the miscommunication (between Wolfe and Tribune, and possibly between Joss and Fox) comes in. Wolfe and Joss were aiming for staying power. They were both crafting shows that people would be talking about years down the road, and could be rewatched regularly, revealing layers of nuance. Shows that could lead to movies, and comics, novels, video games, spin-offs, the works --they were creating franchises.

Tribune/Fox would look at this an just not consider that people would be carrying over from week to week. Their model of viewership just doesn't work like that. They feel they need the weekly SENSATION!!! to grab people's attention, and the question of whether or not they'll tune in next week just doesn't cross their minds. As Joss said, Fox weren't looking for shows that "unfold" --they want the quick payoff, 'cause next week isn't guaranteed.



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, January 29, 2007 5:13 AM

MATTFROMGEEKSTUFF


You know I've thought alot about this and it would seem that there is some logic and underhandedness and stupidity invovled here. The logic aspect is the revenue to continue tp produce the show and make a profit was not there. This appears to be partially the fault of Fox for not showing the pilot and showing the episodes out of order and all that jazz.

The underhandedness comes from Fox being slightly miffed at Joss for pulling Buffy and taking it elsewhere. There are conspiracy theroies that i have read out there and to be honest I'm not sure if they pan out or logically add up but often where there is smoke there is at least a small tiny fire burning.

The stupidity is that Fox, and TV in general do not give enough time to a show before deciding to pull the plug. Firefly was fortunate enough to get 10 episodes aired ( it was ten right? I havnt had my cofee yet this morning and could be totally wrong on this number) some shows only get 3 or 4 episodes aired before getting cancelled. How they can expect any show to devcelop in that short a time is beyond me. With a few exceptions where shows come into there first episode with tons and tons of hype behind it, i.e. Hero's, many shows don't do AWESOME right out of the gate. Not to mention that Fox hd a history of canning shows. Think about the first new episode of Family Guy that fox aired after bringing it back. It starts with a long list of shows that had come and gone while Family Guy was awaya and yes Firefly was in there. That was a slap to fox and a good way to show how show's get canned all the time.

The real question is no longer why it was cancelled it is why has it not come back. A channel like Sci-Fi or Spike or FX or soemthing like that would rock the show now. Especially with the renewed success of Battlestar you would think Sci-Fi would love to build a schedule around another strong Sc-Fi show with a good fan base or a channel like FX would like to find soemting to rival Battlestar and Sci-Fi it seems like a no brainer to us but sadly we are not the ones in charge.

Be sure to check out www.bigkevsgeekstuff.com for your weekly does of geeky news including Firefly and Serenity talk!

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Monday, January 29, 2007 6:32 AM

DECAF


Reading the replies got me thinking about something. It never made sense why they showed it out of order, but maybe they had what they considered a good reason. They wanted to find out if it was their kind of show. Season 1 would be a test to see if the episodes would be sensational enough to draw an audience who didn't know the show inside and out. Why would you give a good timeslot to a test run?

_________________________________
"The probability that we may fail in the struggle ought not to deter us from the support of a cause we believe to be just."
- Abraham Lincoln

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Thursday, February 1, 2007 4:35 AM

CLJOHNSTON108


Posting this simply on account of the topic title...

Quote:

Deep Thoughts by Jack Handey
"Before you criticize someone, walk a mile in their shoes.
That way, after you criticize them and they get mad at you, you're a mile away and they don't have their shoes."


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Thursday, February 1, 2007 7:11 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


Well, I'd imagine that their stinky and gross, with all the excess sweating resulting from the backlash of angry fans, so no. Not really sure I want to walk in their shoes.

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