GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

"$#@!&*" in the Verse

POSTED BY: ZZETTA13
UPDATED: Friday, March 2, 2007 11:24
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Friday, March 2, 2007 2:40 AM

ZZETTA13


Don't know if I'll get much response to this but I'll ask anyway.

The question: Do you think that the alteration of swear words and the use of chinese in FF/Serenity enhanced the show or hurt it?

IMO the alteration of certain words (rutting, gorram and so on ) helped make the show better. I know one of the reasons for doing this was to squeak by the censors but in my opinion it helped make the show unique.

I don't know about anyone else here but I do not like the excess use of profanity. That's not saying that I don't swear myself at times, I do. But one thing that sends a message about a person,and it may not be favorable,is the over use of swearing to make their point. It's like I stop listening to what they are trying to say because I'm anticipating the next rutting swear word to come outta their mouth (sorry bout that).

Anyway I think the clever way the writters got around the censors also helped make the show that much better. Gives browncoats their own gorram language so to speak.Pardon my French.

Z


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Friday, March 2, 2007 2:45 AM

PENGUIN


The use of "other" words gave the show a certain flavor...I don't like a lot of swear words either, so it worked great!




King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Friday, March 2, 2007 2:54 AM

KANEMAN


I think it worked. BSG tries it with frak, but FF's use of multiple made-up words and Chinese worked better.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 2:59 AM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


IMHO....it gave it substance too,...you knew what the word ment(to us), and therefore you understood what it meant in the Firefly world. I don't like cuss words as a rule, but some of Firefly's are cute....ex: gorramit

Good Question!!!



Private in the 76th


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Friday, March 2, 2007 3:08 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:
but in my opinion it helped make the show unique.

Unique... like... Farscape and Battlestar: Galactica and Star Trek and Blade Runner and...

I agree with you.

I thought the use of Chinese fit very well into the whole 'Verse they created. It added charm and reinforced the idea of the blending of cultures.

The only thing I absolutely hated was the use of "rutting." The word "fk" has been in use for centuries, maintaining its meaning and shock value. "Rut" (as in the periodically recurring sexual excitement of the deer, goat, sheep, etc.) isn't used teeerrrribly much in general speech, so the idea that it eventually replaces the F-word just didn't scan.

Since "gorramn" is a melding of "god damn," which I think is a reasonable linguistic occurrence given the great passage of time and cultural mixing, I always wondered why they didn't try the same thing for fk instead of using "rut." We might have had a pretty new word to use, instead of something rather clumsy.

-Sara

PS> I swear a metric fk ton. Not for "shock value," but to convey the correct emphasis to the conversation. *snikker*

************************************************
http://www.flickr.com/photos/sara013


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Friday, March 2, 2007 3:24 AM

SHANNARA


we got the realism of cussing without..... well..... the realism of cussing ;)

i loved it! truly the best of both worlds. good post!!

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Friday, March 2, 2007 3:24 AM

ZZETTA13


HK

If I ever heard Capt. Kirk say " Bones I need you on the Gorram bridge!!" I think I would have fell outta my chair.

Z

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Friday, March 2, 2007 3:49 AM

DANIELFYRE


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:
Don't know if I'll get much response to this but I'll ask anyway.

The question: Do you think that the alteration of swear words and the use of chinese in FF/Serenity enhanced the show or hurt it?

IMO the alteration of certain words (rutting, gorram and so on ) helped make the show better. I know one of the reasons for doing this was to squeak by the censors but in my opinion it helped make the show unique.

I don't know about anyone else here but I do not like the excess use of profanity. That's not saying that I don't swear myself at times, I do. But one thing that sends a message about a person,and it may not be favorable,is the over use of swearing to make their point. It's like I stop listening to what they are trying to say because I'm anticipating the next rutting swear word to come outta their mouth (sorry bout that).

Anyway I think the clever way the writters got around the censors also helped make the show that much better. Gives browncoats their own gorram language so to speak.Pardon my French.

Z




Pardon your French...don't you mean pardon your Chinese?

-Daniel Fyre

"real men juggle geese."

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Friday, March 2, 2007 4:03 AM

ALLIETHORN7


Naw... it made the show take on a whole new level a shiny. As it is, I have mostly replaced the word f&!$*#' in my vocabulary with "Ruttin'". Gimme a break... I'm in highschool!
Yeah, it made the show seem more real, y'know. Like you were actualy watchin' real folk. Come ON!!! I mean, on CSI, if a giant fireball of fiery death is comin' at you (It HAS happened on the show!), you don't say, "Oh, damn!" You say somethin' along the lines of: "OH No #$*@^!% way!" You see? Or say?

-Danny



When the Apocalypse comes, I will transform into a giant Bat and consume your soul, Non-Believer!

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Friday, March 2, 2007 4:51 AM

SHINYED


Quote:

Originally posted by kaneman:
BSG tries it with frak, but FF's use of multiple made-up words and Chinese worked better.



I don't watch the new BSG, but in the original they also used " felgercarb " a lot for swearing...do they still say that now?

I personally love the cursing in Chinese on Firefly.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 5:14 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by zzetta13:
HK

If I ever heard Capt. Kirk say " Bones I need you on the Gorram bridge!!" I think I would have fell outta my chair.

*giggle*

I'm thinking Picard - Number One, rut the "Prime Directive" and engage, gorramnit!

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Friday, March 2, 2007 5:22 AM

SISTER


..I, too swear a giant f**k load. Have for years. Didn't matter so much when I lived in Colorado; in Tenn. (big, big part of the bible belt)..it's frowned on. Actually had someone say that it 'hurt her heart' when I took the name of the lord in vain. I loved the use of both "evolutionized" curses and Chinese curses in Firefly. Believe it truly added to the realist feel; come on - most of us swear all day long..if not out loud, at least 'under your breath' or in your head. Driving is usually enough to get a string o'curses coursing through my mind...oh, and dumb bosses and stupid people tricks...if I could swear, I believe I would have gone homicidal long ago.

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Friday, March 2, 2007 6:04 AM

ZZETTA13


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:


I'm thinking Picard - Number One, rut the "Prime Directive" and engage, gorramnit!



LMAO with that one HK


Quote:

Originally posted by Sister:
..I, too swear a giant f**k load. Have for years. Didn't matter so much when I lived in Colorado; in Tenn. (big, big part of the bible belt)..it's frowned on. Actually had someone say that it 'hurt her heart' when I took the name of the lord in vain. I loved the use of both "evolutionized" curses and Chinese curses in Firefly. Believe it truly added to the realist feel; come on - most of us swear all day long..if not out loud, at least 'under your breath' or in your head. Driving is usually enough to get a string o'curses coursing through my mind...oh, and dumb bosses and stupid people tricks...if I could swear, I believe I would have gone homicidal long ago.



SISTER I can tell you one thing. If the wife and I are at the movie thearer and there are folks around us talking and cutting up she sure as heck don't keep any swear words in her head. I usually tell her not to worry about the noise. We will catch the movie again on dvd. Besides those folk are headed for the "Special Hell" anyway.

Z

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Friday, March 2, 2007 6:09 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I loved the use of Chinese. It was one of the things that really drew me into the show (along with Wash, Mal, Jayne, River, and just about everything else ).

It's also why I was slightly opposed to seeing the show on a channel like HBO. If the series is on a premium channel, there's no reason to skirt the censors, because anything goes.

*************************************************

"If you want to win a war, you must serve no master but your ambition."


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Friday, March 2, 2007 7:51 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


I swear like a sailor


But I think Joss made the write choice




----
Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Friday, March 2, 2007 10:34 AM

RMMC


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
I swear like a sailor



Ditto. Um, FMF, what does this say about our Catholic upbringings?

I agree that the choice enhanced the show and actually made the 'verse more concrete.

Using another language to cuss and curse isn't something new IRL. The thought that words like f*ck and p*ss are crude goes back to the Norman invasion. F*ck and p*ss were Anglo Saxon and therefore considered much cruder terms than the Norman terms as they'd been on the losing side, so the terms have been looked down on ever since.

Given that, it's not unreasonable to think that a word like 'rut' may end up being considered rude and crude 500 years in the future. It may have been considered such by those who had spoken primarily Chinese and so it replaced f*ck as a rude term for intercourse.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh, HK...your Trek senarios are hysterical.

*****
RMMC

When we're down, don't frown. Come join the camp-out at serenitymovie.org.

~~~~~~~~
“The next person, the very next person, who says that is going to know my wrath.”
”I’m on a first name basis with your wrath, sir.” -- Lieutenant Eve Dallas & Officer Delia Peabody, Portrait in Death by J. D. Robb

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Friday, March 2, 2007 11:24 AM

DONCOAT


I don't swear a lot. I'm pretty much in agreement with Simon -- I reserve it for when I want to give something that extra special emphasis. Or when I just dropped an anvil on my toe.

That said, I want to point out one of the subtle aspects of the use of Chinese. It allowed the writers to throw in some really hilarious and creative cursing, not just boring old swearing.

I mean, how expressive is it to sprinkle your language with the same tired and overworked four-letter words? If you're all the time sayin' "f'n this" and "GD that" people quickly tune them out and stop hearing them anyway. Worse, we've lost the art of the truly inventive curse. I'm thinking of such things as the subtle Chinese classic, "May you live in interesting times."

So, in Firefly we have characters saying things that would seem downright silly if spoken in English, like "the explosive diarrhea of an elephant" or "holy mother of god and all her wacky nephews". Most of us had no clue what these meant when we first saw the show (including people who speak Mandarin, as I understand it), but we all got the idea.

There are some cultures where a truly gifted speaker could spend a good half hour spewing out a devastating curse, and just be warming up. The fact that we saw a bit of this in Firefly was a very effective way of showing that this was a culture distinct from our own, something very few S/F shows manage to do (books can do this better).

Besides, it was gorramn funny.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm pointin' right at it!

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