GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Browncoat Bar & Grill - Fun with Riddles

POSTED BY: RIVERISMYGODDESS
UPDATED: Wednesday, June 6, 2007 11:56
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4253
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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:02 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Not the dark wizard sort, the make-you-think sort


Old thread, where it all got started:
http://www.fireflyfan.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=29012&m=504220#504220


Here's a good one to start everyone off:
You are walking down a road and you encounter a fork in the road, and you do not know the correct way to go. There are two men standing at the junction and both know the correct road. One man always lies, and the other man always tells the truth, but you do not know who is the liar and who is the one who tells the truth. You can only ask each man one question, but it must be the same question for both. What is the question that would allow you to get the information necessary to choose the correct path?


And a reminder of the one I posted to start the whole series off:
What is the value (and the breakdown of the coins) of the largest amount of change you can have (in USD) without having exact change for a dollar?

~jimi

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:05 AM

FLYVOTE


q


Ha!!! I got to "q"!!

The circle is complete.

q




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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:10 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Fly, you stole my firsties!

*taps a blasting rod irritably against her leg*

The question that needs to be asked is, I think, "If I were to ask if this road leads to where I want to go, would you tell me 'yes'?"


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:18 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Fly, you stole my firsties!

*taps a blasting rod irritably against her leg*

*Slips on silver shield bracelet, builds up energy* Wait! We're supposed to be on the same side!



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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:21 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


That is not the answer I was looking for, but upon logical examination (and assuming the liar lies no matter what, and isn't evil enough to f*ck with you) your answer works too.

~jimi

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:22 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


*stands in a circle of candles* Bah! You don't show up at the end of the last thread, and here you come pouncing into this one! I saw the new thread as soon as it was posted, but you still got here first! That's you being on my side? *tap tap tap* Flyvote, Flyvote, Flyvote... *shakes head* You disappoint me.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:23 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Stupid double post demons! *waves hands* Begone!

*edit* Yeah, if the liar always had to lie, he would have to say "yes" if the answer to the direct question would be a "no" and vice versa, so you get the right answer from the liar. It's complicated logic, but those "one liar, one truthful" questions always are.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:28 AM

PENGUIN







King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:30 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
*stands in a circle of candles* Bah! You don't show up at the end of the last thread, and here you come pouncing into this one! I saw the new thread as soon as it was posted, but you still got here first! That's you being on my side? *tap tap tap* Flyvote, Flyvote, Flyvote... *shakes head* You disappoint me.

OK. I just appeared before you in your circle. What do you wish me to do. I'll happily join forces with you!



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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:36 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


*considers* Yeah, okay, joining forces sounds good. Would be silly of me to pass up that offer over a firstie poaching.

Now what? We go bust ghosts or something?




Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:36 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


The answer I had was similar, ask each one how the other would respond.

There is a clerk at the butcher shop, he is 5'10" and he wears size 13 sneakers. He has a wife and 2 kids. What does he weigh?

~jimi

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:37 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverIsMyGoddess:
The answer I had was similar, ask each one how the other would respond.

There is a clerk at the butcher shop, he is 5'10" and he wears size 13 sneakers. He has a wife and 2 kids. What does he weigh?

~jimi

Meat.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:38 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
*considers* Yeah, okay, joining forces sounds good. Would be silly of me to pass up that offer over a firstie poaching.

Now what? We go bust ghosts or something?


Goota leave the vampires alone. I'm married to one.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:44 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Gotta leave the vampires alone. I'm married to one.


Wubba-huh?
*isn't sure she wants to know*
*but kinda does*


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 8:55 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Quote:

Originally posted by FlyVote:
Gotta leave the vampires alone. I'm married to one.


Wubba-huh?
*isn't sure she wants to know*
*but kinda does*


I can't express the phenomenal love for my wife in words. So this comment isn't negative or a general dig on wives. And it isn't sexual. But there is a meaning to my comment that I'll leave as a mystery.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:01 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Aw, naw, you can't dance around it like that! No fair! Does she drink blood? I won't think it's overly weird if she drinks blood. You have no idea what varied and unusual people I've come across in my life.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:05 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


blood tastes good. :)

~jimi

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:07 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Aw, naw, you can't dance around it like that! No fair! Does she drink blood? I won't think it's overly weird if she drinks blood. You have no idea what varied and unusual people I've come across in my life.



Hoooo oooo. Myyyysteeeryyy.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:09 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Yeah, see there?

I have and have had a few friends who would agree with you, Jimi.

Might even agree with you myself one day; I have yet to taste anyone's blood in any great amount. It's one of those things like sex; needs to be the right person for that kind of intimacy.

*can barely believe she's having this conversation*


*edit* Okay, but until you tell me different, I'm just gonna assume your wife likes blood.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:14 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
*edit* Okay, but until you tell me different, I'm just gonna assume your wife likes blood.


She likes medium rare prime rib. But nope, not blood.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:17 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Well that's not really a vampire then, is it?


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:22 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


I've also been accused of being an energy vampire, taking from people until they just don't have the will to do any thing while I am refreshed on their strife. Yeah, I know that sounds f*cked up, but that's how it is.

As for other vampiric qualities, she could be pale, nocturnal, have an aversion to garlic or crosses or silver, or any of a number of other stereotypical vampiric qualities.

Or she just might like to bite

I am leaving for the day. The highest amount of change possible without having change for a dollar is $1.19, and it's 3 quarters, 4 dimes, and 4 pennies. Y'all have a good day.

~jimi

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:22 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
Well that's not really a vampire then, is it?

Technicalities.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:24 AM

MAVOURNEEN


Night, Jimi. See you tomorrow!

------------------------------------------------

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:25 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


'night Mavs *hugs*

~jimi

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:25 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverIsMyGoddess:
I've also been accused of being an energy vampire, taking from people until they just don't have the will to do any thing while I am refreshed on their strife. Yeah, I know that sounds f*cked up, but that's how it is.

As for other vampiric qualities, she could be pale, nocturnal, have an aversion to garlic or crosses or silver, or any of a number of other stereotypical vampiric qualities.

I am leaving for the day. The highest amount of change possible without having change for a dollar is $1.19, and it's 3 quarters, 4 dimes, and 4 pennies. Y'all have a good day.

~jimi

If I had a silver dollar (or a billion of them) I wouldn't be able to make change for a dollar.

Garlic? Pttth. That is the majority of my cooking.

G'night, RIMG.


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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:26 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


*strangles the double post demons*

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:28 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by RiverIsMyGoddess:
I've also been accused of being an energy vampire, taking from people until they just don't have the will to do any thing while I am refreshed on their strife. Yeah, I know that sounds f*cked up, but that's how it is.


That would be an incubus. A vampire feeds on blood, an incubus or succubus feeds on emotion or energy.
Quote:

As for other vampiric qualities, she could be pale, nocturnal, have an aversion to garlic or crosses or silver, or any of a number of other stereotypical vampiric qualities.

Hmmmm, could be. I have a lot of those. Love garlic, though. And silver's all right.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:29 AM

FLYVOTE


Who feeds on double posts?



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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:30 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


*glare* Thought you were supposed to be on my side?


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:32 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
*glare* Thought you were supposed to be on my side?

Oh, I am. That's just friendly banter. Where are you with Dresden? (I'm still fighting time to read #6.)



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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:45 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


My banter got killed by too many oversensitive boys. Sorry.
I just finished Grave Peril, about to start on Summer Knight. The joys of being unemployed


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 9:52 AM

FLYVOTE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
My banter got killed by too many oversensitive boys. Sorry.
I just finished Grave Peril, about to start on Summer Knight. The joys of being unemployed


No reason to say sorry to me. We're OK.

Pace yourself with Dresden. I have a busy schedule.



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Monday, June 4, 2007 1:27 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally asked by RiverIsMyGoddess: You are walking down a road and you encounter a fork in the road, and you do not know the correct way to go. There are two men standing at the junction and both know the correct road. One man always lies, and the other man always tells the truth, but you do not know who is the liar and who is the one who tells the truth. You can only ask each man one question, but it must be the same question for both. What is the question that would allow you to get the information necessary to choose the correct path?

Answered by PR: The question that needs to be asked is, I think, "If I were to ask if this road leads to where I want to go, would you tell me 'yes'?"

Response by RIMG: The answer I had was similar, ask each one how the other would respond.

*blink, blink*
Um. Asking each man about their own path wouldn't provide for the logical conclusion that asking about how their counter-part would respond provides; regardless of which man is on which road, their answers will be the same and no conclusion can be drawn. You need to elicit a different response from each in order to reason through the scenarios.

However, instead of sorting through all the IFs, THENs, and THEREFOREs, my question would be this:

"Can I borrow your f**king map?"

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Monday, June 4, 2007 1:32 PM

PENGUIN







King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, June 4, 2007 1:39 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:

Originally asked by RiverIsMyGoddess: You are walking down a road and you encounter a fork in the road, and you do not know the correct way to go. There are two men standing at the junction and both know the correct road. One man always lies, and the other man always tells the truth, but you do not know who is the liar and who is the one who tells the truth. You can only ask each man one question, but it must be the same question for both. What is the question that would allow you to get the information necessary to choose the correct path?

Answered by PR: The question that needs to be asked is, I think, "If I were to ask if this road leads to where I want to go, would you tell me 'yes'?"

Response by RIMG: The answer I had was similar, ask each one how the other would respond.

*blink, blink*
Um. Asking each man about their own path wouldn't provide for the logical conclusion that asking about how their counter-part would respond provides; regardless of which man is on which road, their answers will be the same and no conclusion can be drawn. You need to elicit a different response from each in order to reason through the scenarios.

However, instead of sorting through all the IFs, THENs, and THEREFOREs, my question would be this:

"Can I borrow your f**king map?"




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Thanks for that Hells Kitten, I agree with you. Frankly I couldn't get how that would elicite a correct response from both men because both would be saying yes and you still wouldn't know which road to take. Any question you ask, the first will lie and the second will tell the truth but you still can't figure out from the logistical sense which answer is correct.

Maybe the only question you can ask is;

"If I beat the snot out of you with a very large tree branch, will you eventually tell me the correct road to take?"

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


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Monday, June 4, 2007 1:53 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


No, see, if you ask the liar "If I asked you if this was the road I needed to take to get to such-and-such, would you say yes?" it would trap him. If the answer was 'no' then he would have said 'yes' to the direct question, which means he would be forced to say 'no' to whether he would say yes, because he would lie about it. So you take that no and it's a 'no, this is not the road to take.' Works the same if the answer was yes and he would have said no but then has to lie about what he would have said, so you get a 'yes, this is the road to take.' then you ask the other guy, the truthful one, about the other road and get the opposite answer, whichever way it goes, and you take whatever road you got a 'yes' to. You wouldn't get a yes to both because the truthful one would answer, um, truthfully.

...You see?


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 1:59 PM

PENGUIN







King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, June 4, 2007 2:02 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:


Should I take that as a 'no'?

It makes sense to me. It's just very important you phrase the question right and it traps the liar.


Need tea now.


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 2:39 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
...You see?

*blink, blink, blink*

*gets a pen and draws a diagram...*


...

I... think... so.......

Supposition: A = liar on wrong path & B = honest on right path
¿...would you say 'yes'?
A = no and B = yes
If A = liar, then B = honest, ∴ B = right path
If A = honest, then B = liar, ∴ B = right path


But do we have a pen and paper on this journey??? If not, I'm sticking with my question. *snikker*

*cries cuz her head hurts now*

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Monday, June 4, 2007 2:45 PM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


*sneaks into the bar and grill looking for a few seconds refuge from the world in general...*

*Looks at her HK...*

*Looks at the paper*

Is this...? Is this a mathematical thingamy?

*sits down and cries hard*

I don't do maths!!! I just don't do maths!!!

*manages to mumble something about large quantites of vanilla icecream and Bailey's please whilst sobbing uncontrollably*
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

http://www.myspace.com/lady_magdalena
http:/www.crazypurplewombat.blogspot.com
Recently crowned QUEEN JAYNE WORSHIPPER by FMF!

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Monday, June 4, 2007 2:49 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


It's not math, jie jie, it's logic. No numbers involved.
*pets magda's hair*
I think I missed your call last night. I'm sorry. I'm keeping my phone by me now. If you need to talk...
*passes the ice cream*


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 2:56 PM

MAGDALENA

"No power in the 'verse can stop me!"


thank you Darling Mei Mei - logging off and dialling up momentarily!!

I love you heaps!!

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http://www.myspace.com/lady_magdalena
http:/www.crazypurplewombat.blogspot.com
Recently crowned QUEEN JAYNE WORSHIPPER by FMF!

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Monday, June 4, 2007 3:13 PM

PENGUIN


Dear one!




King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

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Monday, June 4, 2007 3:26 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


*still crying cuz her head hurts, cries even more cuz she missed Magda*

*screams out the window, hoping the air currents will carry her voice to Australia:
Hi, Magda!!! ^^

*looks to intercept some vanilla ice cream...*

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Monday, June 4, 2007 3:45 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


*waves and smiles for Magda*


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 3:55 PM

HELL'S KITTEN


*HEART!*

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Monday, June 4, 2007 4:19 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Penguin:
Dear one!


Awww, she loves being glomped ^_^
Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
*HEART!*





Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.

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Monday, June 4, 2007 7:23 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
No, see, if you ask the liar "If I asked you if this was the road I needed to take to get to such-and-such, would you say yes?" it would trap him. If the answer was 'no' then he would have said 'yes' to the direct question, which means he would be forced to say 'no' to whether he would say yes, because he would lie about it. So you take that no and it's a 'no, this is not the road to take.' Works the same if the answer was yes and he would have said no but then has to lie about what he would have said, so you get a 'yes, this is the road to take.' then you ask the other guy, the truthful one, about the other road and get the opposite answer, whichever way it goes, and you take whatever road you got a 'yes' to. You wouldn't get a yes to both because the truthful one would answer, um, truthfully.

...You see?


Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
A troll's hair is still pointy, even when it's wearing a hat.




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Nope, makes no sense. It still determines on knowing which is the liar and which tells the truth, and it's easy to say A-lies, B-truth. Knowing that you know that A's fooling you and to take the B road. But if this really happened again, without knowing who's who just having one say no and one say yes doesn't mean the one saying no is the liar. I'm trying to follow your logic and all I get is crosseyes.

I say forget the riddle, grab a huge branch, beat the crap out of both of them and demand an answer.

Ya it's cruel, but dammit they made me think.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
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HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


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Tuesday, June 5, 2007 12:11 AM

GEE


*gee wander into bar*

see what I miss when my gorram work kicks off, can't prove that I had worked out the coin problem as the answer is in the post! The logic makes my brain hurt but only because of the language, did plenty of set theory and logic type maths stuff at uni.

I'm going to have a cup of tea and doze, be asleep in the corner if needed.

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