GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

JOSS WAS GOING TO KILL OFF MAL?!?!

POSTED BY: PHYRELIGHT
UPDATED: Sunday, August 26, 2007 19:15
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VIEWED: 6621
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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:07 PM

PHYRELIGHT


I cannot believe my ears! I'm listening to the cast commentary on BDCE, and during the scene in the front corridor between Mal and Zoe after the Lilac job, the commentary goes as so:
Quote:

Joss: The greatest thing about having Gina during the series was always so I could kill you (Nathan) and know that I have a captain.
Nathan: But, you wouldn't, right?
Joss: What?
Nathan: But, you-you wouldn't have done that?
Joss: Oh, yeah, yeah. That was going to be, like, episode 18. But, we never got there! So, you had to star in the movie.

Of course, I know I shouldn't be surprised that Joss would have the audacity to kill off such a popular character as Mal. (Remember when he killed Buffy?) But, I'm still in shock!


_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:08 PM

THEONETRUEBIX


You did notice the less-than-serious tone of that exchange, no?

-----

"I beat up a couple of false b!Xes earlier."
-- Joss, 28 June 2007

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:10 PM

PHYRELIGHT


Only when he got to talking about episode 18.

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:27 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I'm sure that the talk of killing off characters after the movie became quite the hi-larious banter between crew and Joss. Obviously, Mal wouldn't have been written off in ep 18, which would have been early 2nd season. I'd think that Joss, had things played out, would have waited until at LEAST the end of the 3rd season to kill the Captian.



People love a happy ending. So every episode, I will explain once again that I don't like people. And then Mal will shoot someone. Someone we like. And their puppy. - Joss

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:31 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Only when he got to talking about episode 18.



Nope, totally just a joke. Firefly is the story of Mal - take him out of the equation and the whole thing falls apart.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:35 PM

PHYRELIGHT


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
I'd think that Joss, had things played out, would have waited until at LEAST the end of the 3rd season to kill the Captian.



(flatly) I would have waited until the 4th season.

My biggest concern with killing off Mal is betraying all of the Fillionaires out there.

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:41 PM

THEONETRUEBIX


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
My biggest concern with killing off Mal is betraying all of the Fillionaires out there.



Hah.

Somehow I don't think that's what would prevent Joss from doing it, if he ever did.

-----

"I beat up a couple of false b!Xes earlier."
-- Joss, 28 June 2007

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:29 PM

SIRTHOMAS


Honestly, and know one kill me for it, I never watched much of Buffy, but didnt he bring her back from the dead?? Not sure if I saw that one or not, or it may have been some other character on the show.
Please enlighten me.

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:39 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Yep, she was brought back, sirThomas. And technically, Mal already died once (War Stories). I don't see Mal being brought back with some magical spell though.

*****************************************************

"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:49 PM

LEADB


Buffy died 3 or 4 times, if I remember correctly.

Select to view spoiler:


Let's see, she fell in pool and drowned, but was resuscitated; but it was enough to trigger the 2nd slayer. The time she died jumping off the tower, was buried, and resurrected by Willow. Then she got shot, and flat lined at the hospital, but was revived by Willow (hey, if the drowning thing counted as dead, so would that!) And I haven't watched all of season 7 yet....


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Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:57 PM

FLORALBUNNY


Can't you just picture Joss getting to the right part of the arc, turning away from Mal and saying to Tim Minear, "Okay, killer, he's all yours."

bun
Frisky Browncoat
Capt. Mal's birthday is Sep. 20
I planted a cake...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Save fireflies! Minimize your outdoor lighting so they can find each other!!

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:39 PM

PHYRELIGHT


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
Firefly is the story of Mal - take him out of the equation and the whole thing falls apart.



To paraphrase Joss, the show/movie/comic book is named after the ship and not after one of the BDHs. Anyone could easily be killed off!

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:40 PM

SIRTHOMAS


You know Mal, IMO, is to much of a badass. He probably has some magic himself. If he did get killed he probably just kick satans ass and be let free of the bondage of death.

Yeah i said it, Mals a super hero, magic weilding badass...

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:42 PM

COZEN


I figure that the 'zed' got it just right at http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=5588

(Scroll down to his first post on Monday June 7).

(Scroll some more, until the Mal-centric stuff, yeah).

I think it's quite possible zoid got it so right that once word of speculated outcome reached Joss's ears/sight, that Whedon right then and there gave up on any further attempt to resurrect the Firefly series, given that the correct fate of Malcolm Reynolds' character was irrevocably spoiled.







***
Y'all know I'm just kidding, right? As if anyone can accurately predict a Jossverse. In fact, Mal would have been long dead and gone by season 2.5, along with River and Jayne, too. Cuz it's all about stoicism in the face of inevitable corporate folly, thus it's Zoƫ who would have carried the story through Season 7. But only four years after the series had been marginalised to the CBC.

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:58 PM

MOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
Firefly is the story of Mal - take him out of the equation and the whole thing falls apart.



To paraphrase Joss, the show/movie/comic book is named after the ship and not after one of the BDHs. Anyone could easily be killed off!



If you really think about it, the show was named after the class of ship and there are 40,000(?) still flying in the 'Verse. That's a lot of other stories that could of been picked up.

Serenity herself wasn't safe...

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Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:30 PM

BLINDOUTLAW


Okay MOOSE now you got me scared

----------------
That was when i found out my pants were on fire, and that's my Courageous story.

[url] http://www.myspace.com/blindoutlaw [/url]

- Jimmy the Blindoutlaw


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Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:57 PM

BROWNCOAT2007


You are a bad BAAAAAD man MOOSE!!! Don't SAY things like that, although, it was HIGHLY possible, seeing as it was a Joss 'verse...

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Friday, August 24, 2007 1:03 AM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Thanks for letting all those who don't have the SE know. Reeeeeallly happy now.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~



HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


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Friday, August 24, 2007 2:10 AM

PHYRELIGHT


Quote:

Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Thanks for letting all those who don't have the SE know. Reeeeeallly happy now.



Though, the good thing is Joss later said in the SE commentary that since Mal's death never happened, so he was able to appear in the movie.

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Friday, August 24, 2007 3:55 AM

GWEK


I think Mal was pretty safe. Joss says he never likes to do the same thing twice, and y'all are forgetting that he already killed Mal once!

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, August 24, 2007 4:44 AM

FLAUTISTFIRST


Yes, Joss did already kill Mal--in War Stories. Remember Niska's fun house? and "Haven't you killed me enough for one day?"

There's no place I can be since I found serenity.

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Friday, August 24, 2007 5:10 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by leadb:
Buffy died 3 or 4 times, if I remember correctly.

Select to view spoiler:


omit




If I thought there was even a remote chance that Alyson Hannigan would come resurrect me, I would jump off a tower...after setting myself on fire...and shooting myself several times in the head with a nail gun (just to show willing).

I have often said that the only thing wrong with the '82 movie Flash Gordon was that Alyson Hannigan wasn't in it...

It was not like that when Alyson Hannigan got here!

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Friday, August 24, 2007 5:41 AM

BROWNCOAT2007


Here here!!!

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Friday, August 24, 2007 5:54 AM

KAYNA

I love my captain


When Joss said he knew Zoe could run the ship if Mal died I don't think he meant that he actually intended to do it. Not until somewhere near the end of the show at least. I just think he was talking about the strenght of her character. So many second in command characters in shows and books could never actually be the true leader and that annoys me some but not Zoe. She is second, not because she couldn't be first, but because she chooses to follow Mal. And while things may have been named after the ship Joss has previously described the show as being Mal's story.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Friday, August 24, 2007 7:20 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Anyone could easily be killed off!



Except Mal. Mal bought Serenity, Mal named Serenity, Mal recruited the crew for Serenity.

Mal is the only one that needs Serenity. He needs her to fill the huge gaping hole in his soul. Everybody else (pre-movie) has a something to live for without Serenity. Zoe has Wash, Inara has her guild sisters, Kaylee will thrive anywhere there are big engines to fondle and cute men to chase. All Book needs is to travel, learn, and teach; he can do that as well on his own. Simon and River need someplace to hide but all they really need to find is an out of the way town that needs a doctor and ain't to chuffed with witch burning. Jayne just needs a bunk.

Mal is what holds the crew together. Zoe stays with Mal because she owes him her loyalty many times over - Mal saved her during the war now Zoe has to save Mal during the peace. Wash needs Zoe so he isn't going anywhere without her. Inara still hasn't admitted it but she needs Mal to love in the way she can't love a client. Kaylee needs Mal to be her father while she finishes growing up. Book needs Mal to save, not necessarily in the religious sense but in the moral sense. Simon and River need Mal to come swooping in when they meet people who do get chuffed about witch burning. And lastly Jayne needs Mal to do the planning and teach him not to be so treacherous that he winds up dead in a ditch after crossing one too many of the wrong kinds of people.

Some of this changes after the movie of course but the changes mostly just re-arrange how everybody relates to Mal. Now Zoe and Mal have traded places and it's Mal who must help and heal a wounded Zoe. Kaylee has grown up a bit but still I think needs her 'Captain'. Simon - now relieved of a good deal of the responsibility for River now has his relationship with Kaylee holding him to the crew. River now needs Mal to be her father while she grows up out of the childhood she never really had. Jayne still needs Mal to do the thinking and provide that moral compass he so sorely lacks.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

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Friday, August 24, 2007 9:21 AM

PHYRELIGHT


Ah, yes! All very valid points, daveshayne! I agree on all points except on Book... but that's another thread!

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Friday, August 24, 2007 9:36 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Ah, yes! All very valid points, daveshayne! I agree on all points except on Book... but that's another thread!



Yeah, Book is hard to pin down. Shadowy past and all.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

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Friday, August 24, 2007 1:36 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Quote:

Originally posted by PhyreLight:
Quote:

Originally posted by Misstressahara:
Thanks for letting all those who don't have the SE know. Reeeeeallly happy now.



Though, the good thing is Joss later said in the SE commentary that since Mal's death never happened, so he was able to appear in the movie.

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!






~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

You still don't get it do you? Some of us would have liked to have been SURPRISED discovering this on our own. Can't say that now can I?


~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~



HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


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Saturday, August 25, 2007 4:19 PM

PHYRELIGHT


Quote:

You still don't get it do you? Some of us would have liked to have been SURPRISED discovering this on our own. Can't say that now can I?




I'm sorry!

_________________________________________________________
I aim to misbehave, but I usually miss!

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Sunday, August 26, 2007 1:14 AM

GEMINI37


I think this was a sample of Joss's unique sense of humor.


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Sunday, August 26, 2007 5:11 AM

PENNAUSAMIKE


I think killing Mal was mostly a joke.

Frankly, I'm not too enamored of Whedon's penchant for killing off beloved characters.

We lose loved ones all too frequently.
(Or at least I'm getting to the age where I do.)
I'm looking for entertainment, not reality.

Making good entertainment is a balancing act between un-reality for fun (for example: the crew commits crime without killing innocent people) and true to life touches so it doesn't feel un-interestingly fake (Joss' character interaction is top-notch).

Obviously I'm a "Wash Lives" guy.

Mike

PS:
The crew put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial. Along the way, they are informed by Simon that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs ("million credit meat" in Tracy's words) are accessible at Government reseaerch facilities. Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card, they sneak Wash in in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient (ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant). Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues. The Firefly 'verse returns to normal.

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Sunday, August 26, 2007 6:00 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Still not my point. I KNOW it was a joke, But I would have liked to have found out..... ahhh why bother?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~Peter*Peter*Power>~re-peater~



HEROES IS MY CRACK!

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


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Sunday, August 26, 2007 7:15 PM

HORGE


Quote:

The crew put Wash in River's cryo-box to take him home for burial. Along the way, they are informed by Simon that the same medical tech that produced Tracy's hopped up internal organs ("million credit meat" in Tracy's words) are accessible at Government reseaerch facilities. Using a bit of improvisation and Book's ident card, they sneak Wash in in place of a politico who bumped a deserving recipient (ala PA's governor Casey who bumped everybody down the list for his transplant). Alliance bashing, witty dialog and some gunplay ensues. The Firefly 'verse returns to normal.


No way, Mike...
No dodging brain death :)
Even if you somehow tech a way out of that,
the 'verse would still be missing Book,
for whom them fancy organs would be inapplicable.


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