GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

OT: Warner Bros. no longer making movies with female leads

POSTED BY: JWHEDONADDICT
UPDATED: Monday, October 8, 2007 08:29
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Sunday, October 7, 2007 7:12 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=131948

You've got to be kidding me.

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For Joss!




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Sunday, October 7, 2007 3:17 PM

CYBERSNARK


I keep thinking studios can't get any stupider. . .

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Monday, October 8, 2007 4:40 AM

SIMONWHO


Perhaps that was where Joss and WB parted ways over the Wonder Woman script:

"Mr Whedon, we love what you've done but could you make just one more tweak?"
"What?"
"Can the lead character not be a woman?"

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Monday, October 8, 2007 5:25 AM

DARKFLY


No Offence but their haven't been many profitable films that have made money with female leads, The Resident Trilogy, Alien Quadrilogy, Kill Bill Volume, and Tomb Raider series, but two of them are Game Adaptions but neither are particularly good.

Again not trying to cause offence but since Men and Women tend to be seen as two different types, big and strong(Men), pretty and 2nd place(Women). So in a way Men can't watch movies with action female leads plus most of the time its their stunt double and its somebody like Charlie Theron or some A list star who don't have a clue how to fight and look ridiculous doing action movies, audiences won't stand to watch that kinda of crap. Not saying Women can't do other types of films just not action not unless your Summer Glau(at least she can do 99% of her stunts and is very flexible, pretty too).




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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:14 AM

GODDESSWARRIOR89


Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
No Offence but their haven't been many profitable films that have made money with female leads, The Resident Trilogy, Alien Quadrilogy, Kill Bill Volume, and Tomb Raider series, but two of them are Game Adaptions but neither are particularly good.

Again not trying to cause offence but since Men and Women tend to be seen as two different types, big and strong(Men), pretty and 2nd place(Women). So in a way Men can't watch movies with action female leads plus most of the time its their stunt double and its somebody like Charlie Theron or some A list star who don't have a clue how to fight and look ridiculous doing action movies, audiences won't stand to watch that kinda of crap. Not saying Women can't do other types of films just not action not unless your Summer Glau(at least she can do 99% of her stunts and is very flexible, pretty too).




okay I know you said no offense and I mean this with the nicest regards possible... coming from an actress I can tell you that it's very frusterating to see this kind of mentality. Just because I'm a woman doesn't mean that I have to stick to froofroo movies where I am always rescued by the guys. Yes I agree that some people just look ridiculous trying to fight but half the time that's when the studio/director doesn't want to endanger the star or the star just has too big of a head to do their own dirty work. I personally would LOVE to be in an action film but only on the condition that I get to do my own stunts...

So please... just because someone's a girl doesn't mean that they automatically will look ridiculous in an action movie. I mean I've seen TONS of movies with guys who don't know how to take a punch let alone give one.

Oh and look outside movies at TV shows... Alias ran for years with a strong female lead, same with Buffy and many others. How can there be shows/movies with a strong female lead if no one gives women that opportunity in the first place.

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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:35 AM

DARKFLY


I said there are the few female action movies like Kill Bill, Planet Terror(brillint) and Resident Evil which not only have great actress's but they look the part and have decent enough story's. And their are probably more TV Shows(Buffy, Alias, etc) that have are better with female heroins and more successful.

What I meant by actress's not doing the stunts,

1st some of the times they don't look the part to do it(ton of makeup,etc) but I did say some of the time not all which just takes credibility out of the film,

2nd sometimes they can't even do simplest of stunts,

3rdly they are just plain lazy. Even Summer Glau didn't do 100% of stunts cause some where dangerous(really).

And most of the time its due to the rubbish storyline which lets down the movie not necessarily the actress's fault like when they give them skimpy outfits or throw in some sex which pulls down the creditablity of the film.

But since Movies have become so stereotypical it you just can't avoid most of these things apart from Kill Bill obviously, its life and personally I would love to see more Female Action Movies but when you see Movie Posters you wanna see Termianator 3 over Aeon Flux just cause Arnie looks so cool with a gun where as you can tell by the poster Aeon Flux is just another flic with some hot lady in some attractive outfit, you know which one you would enjoy=Terminator but in Aoen Flux you gonna see a hot lady, but your always gonna choose Terminator. You do get the occasional film with a women which is cool like Planet Terror but even that flunked at the Box Office

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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:38 AM

DATALESS


I went through the list of movies WB has put out over the last few years and the ones with women as either the lead or title character (I discount movies like "The Island" because it is both Ewan McGregor's and Scarlett Johansson's movie. but I won't discount "Must Love Dogs" even though it could be either Diane Lane or John Cusack's film.) So here is the list of films centered on women as the lead character in the last few years. The WB doesn't seem to make female centric action movies.

No Reservations (doubled the estimated cost)
Nancy Drew
The Reaping (Hillary Swank movie)
Lady in the Water (did half the estimated cost)
Rumor Has It...
Must Love Dogs
The Sisterhood of the Traveling Pants (did a bit better then budget)
House of Wax (barely beat the budget 2 mill. more)
Miss Congeniality 2 (3 mill more than budget)

These movies start pretty recent and go back to the start of 2005. I doubt too many of them made a lot of money but I think most made enough to justify the cost of making them. If I could make 2 or 3 million for a few weeks or months work I do it on a hear beat but I think the WB feels that investing the kind of money 30 to 100 million dollars in a film it might not be worth it for them. I think most of these films are pretty bad though if they could get better writers and directors they might have a chance at making better movies.

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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:40 AM

SMAUG


Actually... in a way.. I kind of agree with them.

Now before anyone jumps down my throat.. let me try to explain a little.

I really don't like seeing a woman... bascially being a man. At least not as the main character of a movie.

I like male characters to be flawed.. and I like female characters to be vulnerable. That doesn't mean that a female character can't be strong (even physically like River or Zoe).. but I really think that a woman's strengh lies elsewhere.

Take Segorny Weaver in Aliens.. I loved her character. She was VERY strong.. but not in a physical way. She was terrified.. scared... vulnerable.. but she did what she had to.. at first just to survive.. and then later to protect a child. She was a strong female lead.. but the key word there is "Female".. she wasn't a female being a "male". So she was strong in a femine way.. yet vulnerable at the same time. Now the character Vasquese (the tough female marine in Aliens) was an ok character.. she was basically a "man".. but I could accept her because she was NOT the main character... I wouldn't want to see a movie about her. Just like if there was going to be a spin-off of Firefly... Zoe would be the last character I would choose to wrap a show around.

I mean.. all the women of Firefly are great examples of "strong" women.. but with the exception of Zoe.. their strengh comes from their femanine side.. I think Joss made Zoe a woman just to flip the "cliche" around of "male captains". The same way he gave "Jayne" a girls name.. just playing with cliches. But what I love about Zoe is that she is married and in love with the "geek" of the crew..

So basically.. if you have the main character being a female and you could switch her with a male character and the movie would be exactly the same... then something is wrong in my book. That's the problem with a movie like Tomb Raider.. switch Anjolina Jolie with a male actor (and reverse the sex of the love interest of course) and you end up with the same movie... basiclly a high tech indiana jones... minus the eye candy.

Again this is all my opinion.. but what's needed to fix this.. is the main female lead simply needs to be "female".. drawing upon a woman's strenght.. and having her have vulnerablities.. not turning her into a man.

I don't want to see that... and that's why movies like Electra, catwoman, etc. tanked.. Actually write the part for a woman in stead of a woman playing a man.. and you might actually have a movie.

That's why I am glad that Joss isn't doing WW.. if anyone could pull it off.. it would be Joss.. but I think the whole thing would have been a trap.. and probably tanked also (no matter even if it WAS great).. better for him to not even go there..

Smaug..

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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:44 AM

CYBERSNARK


Wait, I just thought of something revolutionary.

These bad movies with female leads. . . Could it be possible that they're losing money because they're bad movies, and not because of the female leads?



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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:46 AM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Wait, I just thought of something revolutionary.

These bad movies with female leads. . . Could it be possible that they're losing money because they're bad movies, and not because of the female leads?



If you read my second post you would have seen me say...
"And most of the time its due to the rubbish storyline which lets down the movie not necessarily the actress's fault like when they give them skimpy outfits or throw in some sex which pulls down the creditablity of the film. "



And Please Warner Bros since you own the rights to Batman please remake Catwoman but with Michelle Pfeiffer from Batman Returns




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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:47 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
What I meant by actress's not doing the stunts, 1st some of the times they don't look the part to do it(ton of makeup,etc) but I did say some of the time not all which just takes credibility out of the film,

2nd sometimes they can't even do simplest of stunts,

3rdly they are just plain lazy. Even Summer Glau didn't do 100% of stunts cause some where dangerous(really).

And 4th, you're a complete idiot.

Adam Baldwin didn't do all his own stunts, either. Same for Fillion, Tudyk, etc.
Does that mean they're lazy and incapable, too? (ZOMG!!1! And they were in make-up, too!!!)

Or, gosh, I dunno... maybe the movie company can't risk losing one of the main actors to an accident because they're not trained as stuntmen? Oooooh, or maybe liability insurance would be incredibly expensive if they made untrained people do dangerous stunts?



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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:52 AM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
What I meant by actress's not doing the stunts, 1st some of the times they don't look the part to do it(ton of makeup,etc) but I did say some of the time not all which just takes credibility out of the film,

2nd sometimes they can't even do simplest of stunts,

3rdly they are just plain lazy. Even Summer Glau didn't do 100% of stunts cause some where dangerous(really).

And 4th, you're a complete idiot.

Adam Baldwin didn't do all his own stunts, either. Same for Fillion, Tudyk, etc.
Does that mean they're lazy and incapable, too? (ZOMG!!1! And they were in make-up, too!!!)

Or, gosh, I dunno... maybe the movie company can't risk losing one of the main actors to an accident because they're not trained as stuntmen? Oooooh, or maybe liability insurance would be incredibly expensive if they made untrained people do dangerous stunts?




And your a dumb ass for not reading the whole of my post since I did give reasons why some movies work with Female leads, and I even said that its usually down to the storyline of the film which lets it down not the actress.

I'm up in arms for female action movie but not ones which tart some actress up make her wear a bikini and have sex and then top it off with the actress doing almost none of her own stunts. Doing virtually none of her own stunts isn't always a bad thing but it don't help/

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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:57 AM

DARKFLY


And say for instance Mal isn't a standard sterotypical action hero and doesn't even require to do many stunts, and why the Hell do they always think Female action stars need to be flexible and jump around alll the time, I say lets have a solid female actress who like a female version of John Mclane from Die Hard

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Monday, October 8, 2007 6:57 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
And your a dumb ass for not reading the whole of my post since I did give reasons why some movies work with Female leads, and I even said that its usually down to the storyline of the film which lets it down not the actress.

I did read the whole of your post.
And it seems as though you completely missed the point of mine.
You called female actresses incompetent (not be able to do even simple stunts) and lazy.
Neither of those accusations you made has anything to do with the quality of the movie.



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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:00 AM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
And your a dumb ass for not reading the whole of my post since I did give reasons why some movies work with Female leads, and I even said that its usually down to the storyline of the film which lets it down not the actress.

I did read the whole of your post.
And it seems as though you completely missed the point of mine.
You called female actresses incompetent (not be able to do even simple stunts) and lazy.
Neither of those accusations you made has anything.



God women I said Some actresses, even pointed that out twice and I was only talking about the ones which are rubbish at action movies.

And remember I'm with having Female action stars, stunts is just one of many reasons sometimes actress can't do action movies. And lets not foget its the stroyline half the time of not more than half the time which lets the film down.

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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:02 AM

DARKFLY


And there are plenty of actress's out there which could be so good at doing action movies its just I hate when they pick the pretty ones which are a bit airheaded and don't give a shit about the movie, only the money. But again I'm talking about some actress's.

And for the record my 2nd post was about in general not just stunts.


And Please Warner Bros since you own the rights to Batman please remake Catwoman but with Michelle Pfeiffer like she was in Batman Returns, bad ass to the bone.

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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:10 AM

ASARIAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:

3rdly they are just plain lazy.



And male actors, of course, are never lazy. :) Riiiiight.

Seriously, dude, that's where I stopped reading. Maybe because I was half afraid to hear you say next that women can't vote, either. Or go to college. Or what not, not.

I'm sure there's a reason why movies with women in a leading role don't do all that well (and even that broad generalization is on shaky grounds: Sigourney Weaver did pretty well in the Alien sagas). But bringing up actresses' alleged laziness was reason for me to deduct 10 points from your argument. And since I generally pull the plug at -10, the buck stopped there; and me along with it.


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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:16 AM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by asarian:
Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:

3rdly they are just plain lazy.



And male actors, of course, are never lazy. :) Riiiiight.

Seriously, dude, that's where I stopped reading. Maybe because I was half afraid to hear you say next that women can't vote, either. Or go to college. Or what not, not.

I'm sure there's a reason why movies with women in a leading role don't do all that well (and even that broad generalization is on shaky grounds: Sigourney Weaver did pretty well in the Alien sagas). But bringing up actresses' alleged laziness was reason for me to deduct 10 points from your argument. And since I generally pull the plug at -10, the buck stopped there; and me along with it.



Is everybody stupid I'm giving many possible reasons why certain(not all) actress's might not be suited to action movies, but I'm personally up for actress's being Action Stars, I mean honestly their are more things to nickpick about Male Action Stars.


And I though BROWNCOATS were different seems to me they're just as bad as other fandoms, some stuck up ******** our got amongst us. Why does everybody take it so Gorram seriously, I share my views other people take my views as sexist, OMFG your a turd.


And what's the deal one mention of sexism or negativeness to any woman or women in general and its like kill me traitor sex pig of a two timing whore, but when people slag off Men we are like okay whatever then move on. And for the record I'm never been sexist in this thread so far, I've only described why I think a certain type of actress(but not all) should not do action movies and I could say the same about Male actor's, Tom Crusie anybody.

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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:26 AM

DARKFLY


Ignore everything said cause the following 2 pics explain why it's Bad and why its Good to have Female Action Stars. The problem is bad storyline's, and trying to make Actress's like Male Action Star's when they should be more like Ripley and Uma Thurman from Alien and Kill Bill still women with real feeling which act normal but can stll kick ass not some suped up genetically enchanced Super Mario Jumping Kumba's with Zero Character



BAD, Aeon Flux...







Good, Kill Bill...







BAD, Elektra...







GOOD, ALien


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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:29 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


All I gotta say is I can't wait to hear if Joss has a comment or two about Warner Bros.



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Joss is like a present, he's like a gift as far as I'm concerned.--Ron Glass

"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike

For Joss!



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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:36 AM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
All I gotta say is I can't wait to hear if Joss has a comment or two about Warner Bros.





Good video, worth watching twice

Love the bit when he says, "Why do you keep asking me why I write these strong women characters, why don't you go and ask a 100 other people why they don't"

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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:41 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


I've watched about 10 times (so far) and shared it w/ my aunt, my mom, and some people on another non-Joss-related site I used to go to. One person even put the video on her myspace page she loved it so much and wanted to share it w/ all her friends.

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"They talk about me in the chatty rooms?"--Angel

"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

"All I had to do is want it bad enough...and guess what I want to do now, you prissy son of a bitch?"--Spike

For Joss!



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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:43 AM

CANTER


Wow,

It never fails. Bring up the difference between men and women and somewhere, somehow, it always gets off track. Such language! I'm amused. And the sulking is impressive too.

Back on topic

I think that (if this allegation is true) WB is making a very big generalisation to blame the performance of their movies on the gender of the lead actor.

Surely there are different genres of movies. Action movies are traditionally aimed at a male audience, right? (Although a lot of females like it too, I think it's safe to say that action moviegoers are primarily men) If that is your target audience, it might be that men don't like females in action roles.
If this is true, shouldn't their statement then be that they do not intend to make any action movies with female leads, because it doesn't fare well with their target audience. (Though how they ended up with three Tomb Raiders and God knows how many Alien movies, if that was the case, I do not know.....)

But they are not saying they're not making any action movies. The statement accredited to them is that they are not making any movies with a female lead. Since mainstream romantic comedies generally require a lead from both sexes, I suppose this now means that they are no longer making any of those comedies.

And if they intend to make any dramas for their female audiences, they damn well had better get some strong female leads in there, since men aren't well known for watching these types of movies.

Since the above makes no sense whatsover, I suppose the reported statement had better be taken with a grain of salt.

Unless WB is from now on only going to make action movies, and then only for men.

If that's the case, good luck to them. I wouldn't have to boycot them. They just won't be showing anything I'd be interested in.



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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:46 AM

GODDESSWARRIOR89


Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
All I gotta say is I can't wait to hear if Joss has a comment or two about Warner Bros.





Good video, worth watching twice

Love the bit when he says, "Why do you keep asking me why I write these strong women characters, why don't you go and ask a 100 other people why they don't"

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That's my absolute favorite quote from him.. and HEY I liked Elektra... If it had a better storyline... but Jennifer Garner kicked butt!

*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
Have you ever been with a warrior woman?

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Monday, October 8, 2007 7:48 AM

DARKFLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Canter:
Wow,

It never fails. Bring up the difference between men and women and somewhere, somehow, it always gets off track. Such language! I'm amused. And the sulking is impressive too.

Back on topic

I think that (if this allegation is true) WB is making a very big generalisation to blame the performance of their movies on the gender of the lead actor.

Surely there are different genres of movies. Action movies are traditionally aimed at a male audience, right? (Although a lot of females like it too, I think it's safe to say that action moviegoers are primarily men) If that is your target audience, it might be that men don't like females in action roles.
If this is true, shouldn't their statement then be that they do not intend to make any action movies with female leads, because it doesn't fare well with their target audience. (Though how they ended up with three Tomb Raiders and God knows how many Alien movies, if that was the case, I do not know.....)

But they are not saying they're not making any action movies. The statement accredited to them is that they are not making any movies with a female lead. Since mainstream romantic comedies generally require a lead from both sexes, I suppose this now means that they are no longer making any of those comedies.

And if they intend to make any dramas for their female audiences, they damn well had better get some strong female leads in there, since men aren't well known for watching these types of movies.

Since the above makes no sense whatsover, I suppose the reported statement had better be taken with a grain of salt.

Unless WB is from now on only going to make action movies, and then only for men.

If that's the case, good luck to them. I wouldn't have to boycot them. They just won't be showing anything I'd be interested in.



I agree with the whole "If that's the case, good luck to them. I wouldn't have to boycot them. They just won't be showing anything I'd be interested in."

Though I still watch the Batman Films(like the only good films they've ever made, managed to F*ck up Terminator 3 when they bought the rights)

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Monday, October 8, 2007 8:07 AM

CALIFORNIAKAYLEE


Quote:

Originally posted by Darkfly:
The problem is bad storyline's

If the problem is bad storylines, then why the hell is it the fault of the actresses? Storylines are created by writers, not by actresses. If WB was really concerned about the quality of their movies with female leads, they would make a stand against bad writers, not against actresses. Refusing to make movies with female leads is sexist. Supporting WB's decision is also sexist.

PS - it's actresses, not actress's, storylines not storyline's. If you want anyone to take you seriously, learn the difference between plural and possessive.

~CK

You can't take the sky from me...

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Monday, October 8, 2007 8:17 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Maybe if they changed their name to Warner Sisters they may have better luck. ;)

Alternatively if they hire better writers, and actually put in some work over their endeavours they wouldn't have to do moronic things like this. Just think of all the talent they are overlooking if they follow through with this plan.

Just when you think things can't get any worse.... The mind boggles.


www.cirqus.com

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Monday, October 8, 2007 8:18 AM

JWHEDONADDICT


I got the link from Whedonesque. Here's a link to their site, and the comments from their poster's.

I think I'm w/ Ember's on the Warner Bros. boycott. They've got nothing I'm interested in anyway.

http://www.whedonesque.com/comments/14414

***********************************************
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"I'm 1120 years old. Just give me a frigging beer!"--Anya

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For Joss!



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Monday, October 8, 2007 8:29 AM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by jwhedonaddict:
http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=131948

Warner Bros president of production Jeff Robinov who Finke quotes (through three sources) as saying: "We are no longer doing movies with women in the lead."




doesn't say ACTION movies - just movies, period.

my reply to Robinov is:


......................................

'sick - sad - world.'


'actually it's kinda cool - let em have no women at ALL. The monkeys wanna watch the monkeys? fine. we can all go SOMEPLACE else!'

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