GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

distorted 'feminist' view of firefly

POSTED BY: PEPPERG
UPDATED: Tuesday, April 1, 2008 09:08
SHORT URL:
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Friday, March 28, 2008 3:36 AM

YOSHOSEDAI


Quote:

Originally posted by lcrussell:


Could you please pass me a bit of that brain bleach if you happen to have any to spare. I'd like to bleach that post of hers right out of my mind.

http://www.bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!



Sure, no problem, slides bottle of Brain-o across the forum.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech

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Friday, March 28, 2008 4:03 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


I would like to say that my wife, herself a feminist, read this article and stopped a quarter of the way through in disgust. Her comment to me was that the author is in no way in touch with true empowerment and is simply just someone who wants to be angry for the sake of being angry.


Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Friday, March 28, 2008 4:04 AM

MAL4PREZ


OK, I'm a feminist, and I'm ready to jump all over fiction (or reality) that treat ladies poorly. But there's no need to go inventing stuff that doesn't exist!

This woman's got some hard core filters on, and she ain't seeing reality. Poor thing. Life must suck for her, if she sees something as brilliant and ground-breaking as Firefly the way she does.

Still, it bugs me that she calls herself a feminist. I hope all you Y chromosomes out there don't think we're all insane! I'll stand up for girls when they're treated poor, but the same goes for boys. The vast majority of men are good folks - as any decent feminist knows. The woman who wrote this blog is something else entirely.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Friday, March 28, 2008 4:39 AM

LCRUSSELL


I'm a human rights activist, she's.....whacko.

The southerners on the forum are about to start laughing....

Bless her heart...her momma didn't raise her well.
She just doesn't know any better.

(the three most damning phrases a southerner can utter)



http://bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

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Friday, March 28, 2008 4:41 AM

LCRUSSELL


Quote:

Originally posted by Yoshosedai:


Sure, no problem, slides bottle of Brain-o across the forum.

So, why do you write these strong female characters?

Because you're still asking me that question.

Joss Whedon-Equality Now acceptance speech




Thank you sweetie!


http://bigdanglarp.com/

Come Misbehave!

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Friday, March 28, 2008 5:08 AM

JONDESU


When she said that Joss rapes his wife, not only did I want to throw up, but I want to do one of two things: either I want to make sure Joss never knows that people think this about him because he doesn't deserve that, or I want to make sure he knows her full name and address so he can sue her for libel.

jW

"Yep, that went well."

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Friday, March 28, 2008 5:25 AM

KAYNA

I love my captain


Ok, I'm a bit of a feminist and I have some fairly serious feminist friends they can't stand this type of feminazi. This is the type that wants physical standards for firefighters to be lowered so there are more women in the job, regardless of the fact that people's lives depend on those standards. Gives the rest of us a bad name.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could just put all the world's extremists together on an island and let them fight it out while the rest of us go about our lives?


Also, I couldn't get past the duct tape part. Just too much unreasonable anger and distortion.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Friday, March 28, 2008 5:44 AM

TANKOBITE


Really the fire departments don't already do that? I know the Army's PT requirements are much less for women then mens (almost to the point where I think it should be offensive to women). I think that's a problem, especially considering the fact that many women in the military are being forced into actual combat situations (currently women aren't allowed in front line units to my knowledge) because of the asymmetrical nature of the conflicts going on today. Bad for them, bad for the men in their units.

-----------------------------------------------------------
There's a widow in sleepy Chester
Who weeps for her only son;
There's a grave on the Pabeng River,
A grave that the Burmans shun;
And there's Subadar Prag Tewarri
Who tells how the work was done.

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Friday, March 28, 2008 6:02 AM

KAYNA

I love my captain


My understanding is that some do and some don't. It's not something I've checked into recently because it pi***s me off. If you don't have the strenght to haul my fat, unconcsious butt out of a burning building you shouldn't get that job. That's not equality. It's patronizing and it's stupid. That aplies to the military as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Friday, March 28, 2008 6:12 AM

VERTIGO


Quote:

Originally posted by Kayna:
My understanding is that some do and some don't. It's not something I've checked into recently because it pi***s me off. If you don't have the strenght to haul my fat, unconcsious butt out of a burning building you shouldn't get that job. That's not equality. It's patronizing and it's stupid. That aplies to the military as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.



You speak the truth..


Shiny.

http://fireflyseriesrp.proboards104.com">
>

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Friday, March 28, 2008 6:20 AM

EMPIREX


HAHAHAA! LMAO! Here, here, Kayna!

"Can you, for a moment, imagine how depressing it is to teach one thousand years of masculine ineptitude? Why do you think there are so few women historians? I'll tell you why. Because history is not such a frolic for women as it is for men... History is a commentary on the various and continuing incapabilities of men. History is women following behind with a bucket and a mop." - Alan Bennett, "The History Boys"

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Friday, March 28, 2008 7:28 AM

AVENGINGWATCHER


Well, at least the good news is that she won't procreate. Personally I like the show because the women are strong...but..hey someone mentions Stephanie Miller..I love her she is such a sweetheart and really nice in person...it's too bad the station carrying here here changed to a spanish radio channel and tanked because there were no hispanics listening to it.

I loved the reply LJ post...it was so cute...:)

When there are no heroes where will we turn?

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Friday, March 28, 2008 8:34 AM

ERGASTER


That was downright bizarre.

There is only one rational response...

*points* allecto *laughs hysterically*

(I'll betcha Jayne gets an essay all to himself....)

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Friday, March 28, 2008 10:29 AM

DUN

nods head


being a man of few words,ok someone got out of the wrong side of the bed

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Friday, March 28, 2008 11:53 AM

EMBERS


okay, I thought I've heard some reviewers before who did not understand what they saw...
but man o man...this woman is seriously twisted!

I would have taken it as a joke, except for the whole not being funny thing.

sigh

Sometimes I despair of finding intelligent life on this planet.

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Friday, March 28, 2008 12:27 PM

CONSTANCE


Wow... I guess there really are more than one way to see things... at least she had watched the show closely, I'll give her that. But she still missed the point(s). again I say wow..

Constance


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Friday, March 28, 2008 1:11 PM

TRAVELER


hello bluesuncompanyman:


Quote:

Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
I would like to say that my wife, herself a feminist, read this article and stopped a quarter of the way through in disgust. Her comment to me was that the author is in no way in touch with true empowerment and is simply just someone who wants to be angry for the sake of being angry.


Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.



Your wife makes a good point. This person does this deliberately. She just wants attention and this give it to her. People, like her, will pick an insane stance and defend it with twisted ideas just to get people riled up. I am sure she gets pleasure out of it. A true sadist. Anyone who would attempt to debate her would only feed her ego. She cares little about the truth. That gets her nowhere. She must be fun to live with.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Friday, March 28, 2008 1:13 PM

CITIZEN


Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

Of course to someone who sees Buffy the Vampire Slayer as non-feminist, FireFly is going to feel like borderline misogyny. It does after all, show strong male characters along side the strong female one's, *gasp*! The problem with FireFly is its setting, its placed in a 'space western' universe, it's explained rather better than I can in Finding Serenity by Jane Espenson, but essentially the Western is very much a genre hinging on old fashioned chivalry, which somewhat hamstrings the feminist, or rather 'equality of the sexes' message, at any rate its old ground.

It does seem to be a lazy analysis to me, not because a lot of time or energy hasn't been spent on it, but because no insight has been gained, no actual analysis has taken place. The author has rather obviously approached the subject wishing to prove what they already knew, that Joss Whedon isn't a feminist, of course how could he, a man, be. All this article really shows is confirmation bias as it pertains to bigotry: replace men with Jew and you've got something written by Heinrich Himmler.

Which is really the point. She plays lip service to empowering women, but really she wants to oppress them as much as she wishes to oppress men. Reading the comments it's clear that she considers that all Women are really Lesbians, forced into heterosexual relationships by men, who, as we also find out, are all rapists. Apparently any male initiated sexual act, even consensual, is rape. She's not after empowerment of women, she's after homogenisation of women, all women have to be just like her. Basically what it's about is forcing the correct choices on Women, this might sound like the same thing as a oppressive patriarchy, but it's not because they're the correct choices, see.

Feminism is, apparently all about preventing women from making their own choices, being that women can't be trusted to do so. This from a real feminist?

Feminism is not misandry, it is not an outward hatred of all men, it is not openly bigoted statements like "I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us" (if anyone has a problem with my statement that, that is bigoted, I'd ask when it was they asked all men how they feel about women), and it is most certainly not a belief that women can't be trusted to make their own decisions. Its a terrible shame that the nobility of feminism is increasingly being co-opted by those who wish to oppress men rather than gain equality for women, and in that respect feminism has failed. Feminism aimed to stop men from objectifying women, but the strip clubs remain open, but in true equality women are now encouraged to, and do, objectify men in the same manner. Feminism aimed to eradicate misogyny, and has certainly succeeded in reducing it and rightfully vilifying it, but in return there has been a meteoric rise in misandry, women seeing men in the way misogynists see women. Perhaps the most disturbing facet of that is how misandry isn't also vilified, but almost encouraged and lauded openly in some circles. Feminism's success in getting women to ape some of the behaviours of men, that it was aiming to eliminate, has certainly lead to a form of equality, if a rather dystopic one.

It is, nonetheless an interesting critique on the Human condition, I weep for the species.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Friday, March 28, 2008 3:02 PM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.



Oh Citizen, I think you are going a little too far in the other direction! I mean of course Buffy does all the hero/champion stuff since it is her show...
but no one can deny that Xander is one of the kindest and most loyal of men,
and that Giles is brilliant, they are both people I would want in my life... which wouldn't be true if they were only bumbling buffoons.

It is true that there have been more evil men on Buffy: The Master, the Mayor, Warren, and Caleb...
but there WERE some evil women (personally I found Maggie Walsh scarier than Glorificus, but that is just me).


New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Friday, March 28, 2008 11:09 PM

JRC


Someone made a comment asking if she was going to analyze "Objects In Space". This is her reply:

"Yes, I plan to. I found Objects in Space to be horrifically racist. I can't believe that Joss was allowed to air a show that had such a terrible portrayal of Black men. I also found the portrayal of the Black man in the movie Serenity to be pretty horrifying too."


It's also quite funny how she has replied to only a select few people.



Everyone dies alone.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:50 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
Oh Citizen, I think you are going a little too far in the other direction! I mean of course Buffy does all the hero/champion stuff since it is her show... but no one can deny that Xander is one of the kindest and most loyal of men, and that Giles is brilliant, they are both people I would want in my life... which wouldn't be true if they were only bumbling buffoons.

I didn't say they were only bumbling buffoons, just that they were. In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 4:35 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
In direct reference to Xander, in actual unique attributes he didn't really have anything, his contribution was often giving the gang someone to save. In that respect he was Buffy the Vampire Slayers answer to the Heroine of many 50's B movies, whose place was to be loyal and loving to the hero, then scream dramatically before being captured by the villain and giving the hero someone to rescue.


but for anyone who has ever seen Joss Whedon it is pretty obvious that Xander is our 'Joss' character (dressing in T-shirt with open shirt over it, cracking stupid jokes, while being pretty helpless in a crisis...).

My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 6:36 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry (simply NOT giving him super powers is not a hatred of men) any more than Zoe would be an example of misogyny (they couldn't ALL get to be captain). I was just objecting to the extreme wording is all.

Neither do I, which is why I said "the argument could be made". It is, however, somewhat closer to misandry than Firefly is to misogyny, or Joss is to a rapist.

I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women. I maintain that Buffy is the gender roles of an atypical b movie turned on their head.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:01 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry


Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:05 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
I would say, though that in a lot of ways Buffy paints Men as less than equal to Women.

I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.

I mean, Buffy is all about reversing assumed gender roles. Joss has said that his idea started with wanting the usual horror scene where the scared little blonde chick goes into the dark alley (almost always stalked by a *male* monster, btw) but then - whoa! She comes out the victor with the monster dead or running in fear.

So yeah, Buffy does draw men as less than women, but that's as a challenge to the viewers. We've been fed shows with strong men and helpless women forever - can we accept the opposite? Maybe there's a shade of gender affirmative action to it. I get that not everyone's a fan of that.

Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:40 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
My point was that Xander isn't an example of misandry


Now, Jayne, he'd be an example of misandry.


oh but I love Jayne soooo much!
he is like the perfect man!
you know, except for the stupid, untrustworthy part...


And yeah, Mal4Prez and Citizen, I think we are all on the same page here...
the page that says that the crackpot who wrote that ugly blog is certifiable!

New Firefly fans should check this out: http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=15816

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 7:49 AM

CITIZEN


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
I doubt even Joss would deny this. He's said that his interest is in strength in women and weakness in men. That's pretty blatant in his shows, and I think it's purposely done. I don't think he'd apologize for it.

Whose asking him to apologise? I'm not an angry white homosexual homophobe, who is struggling to come to terms with their racism and sexism . I say it only to highlight the absurdity of the misogyny accusation.
Quote:

Edit: OK, not fair! You added the last sentence to your post after I hit reply. It says everything in my post, but much more simply. At least I know we agree LOL!
I certainly added it in, but some time before you posted, it was pretty much straight away after I made my post and thought it needed some clarification (well, almost, my computer crashed a bit and I had to log back in). I would have added an edit tag, but no one had posted by the time, so I assumed no one had read my post yet.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:17 AM

STINKINGROSE


Thank you for using your powers of deletion judiciously.

One word can pretty much sum up what I could be bothered to read of that first rant (it does not qualify as a reasoned discourse):

Imbalanced.

It may well also describe the author.


Apparently a woman having sex with a man automatically qualifies as "rape". Womynkind should all free themselves from their enslaving uteruses and never sully themselves with male influences again.
Any woman who finds that she is attracted to men at all sexually should immediately seek psychiatric assistance, as she is obviously brainwashed by the dominant misogynist culture.

When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer! Wait, I have a son! What have I done to the world of fems?! I bore a Y-chromosome carrying parasite in my enslaving womb and have now wreaked unimaginable evil on future generations of my sistren!!
Perhaps if I rebelled against my oppressors and removed every single disgusting male from the face of the man-raped planet it could begin to make amends for the scourge I have unleashed! Everything with a penis must DIE!!!!!

(Sorry, was that a tad overdone?)

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:27 AM

HKCAVALIER


The big problem for me with this kind of "art criticism" is that it displays no ability to distinguish between subject matter and the artist's opinions. It reduces all art to the level of advertising--it's either propaganda for Ms. Alecto's cause or it's propaganda for her enemies. It's Stalinist when you get right down to it.

This woman, as I see her, is not an appreciator of art, but a self-perceived victim of it. Posts like hers are a way of achieving some kind of revenge, some kind of dominance over the art and the artist. I mean, for cryin' outloud, if you read on down the page of comments, she admits to never having witnessed a heterosexual relationship that wasn't some kind of rape.

What makes Joss's vision feminist is not that he only depicts women as powerful, mentally solid überfrauen but that he sees into their predicaments, whatever they are, with such empathy and insight. One cannot deny that one of Joss's principle subjects is misogyny. I want to ask Alecto how one is to depict misogyny without, y'know, depicting it.

As noted above, Firefly is dystopic. In Alecto's logic that would suggest that Joss hates humanity. However, that Joss would depict a future that is so bleak does not mean that he thinks human beings are hopelessly wedded to evil, it only demonstrates that Joss is generous and courageous enough as an artist to share with us his worst fears and to bring humor and humanity to the telling.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 8:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by stinkingrose:


When my husband gets home he is in for a heap of trouble... the nerve of that penis-wielding torturer!

BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Chrisisall, lol

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 9:01 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Very well stated HK. Though I'm not quite sure how you're using "Stalinist," but other then that, very well said.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 10:32 AM

MUGGI


Wow.

Perfect example of the difference between wanting equality and radical feminism, or "feminist-lite" as the author calls it. This woman does not want women treated equally, she wants a matriarchal society.

What bothered me about the article was her obvious nitpicking of certain lines and interactions with no concept of context. I mean, she rails against Zoe for calling Mal "Sir", but completely disregards the history or position of the two. She berates Mal for telling Zoe to "shut up", when Mal needed to get a word to Wash.

It's the "blinders effect" in full force: everything said to, about, or by women is a direct reflection on their sex. Here's a tip for future viewing: it's not. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.

It makes me very sad, as people like her are one of the things that stand in the way of women getting true equality in our society.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 11:29 AM

HKCAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Though I'm not quite sure how you're using "Stalinist," but other then that, very well said.

Oh, I was thinking of "socialist realism," State art that promotes the state. In Alecto's case, the state is radical feminism. Thanks for your kind words, Finn.

HKCavalier

Hey, hey, hey, don't be mean. We don't have to be mean, because, remember, no matter where you go, there you are.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 12:27 PM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Whose asking him to apologise? I'm not an angry white homosexual homophobe, who is struggling to come to terms with their racism and sexism . I say it only to highlight the absurdity of the misogyny accusation.

Yeah, sorry cit. I wasn't meaning to aim a rant at you. Your post set me onto my own tangent re Joss's treatment of gender roles, which I find so interesting. Well, ok, and I wasn't sure if the thread was going to go into some: "women are stronger than men on Buffy and that's not fair!" thing, which your added sentence made clear was not at all what you meant.

Stinkingrose - You are too funny! Kill all penis attachments! Grrr! Argh!

HK - such a good point. The crazy blogger should consider that a show depicting a victimized woman does not mean the writer likes things that way. The Inara situation is a good example - is a Companion empowered or taken advantage of? I don't think Joss makes that judgement for us; he only puts the question out there for us to ponder.

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 2:52 PM

BORIS


Bugger me! (that's the least rude thing I could say after reading the so called "feminist rant") It's disturbing how some people can fully mis comprehend something, and then turn it into something else that is hideously distorted! obviously this person is suffering from some acute disempowerment issues...or she's intellectually deficient, and is in denial of the fact. It's also possible that she has had experiences with men that were so ugly it has coloured her interpretation.( if that's the case I am sorry for her) Let's hope she is not in a position to influence anyone else with her opinion, as if this is how she misinterprets Firefly, imagine how profoundly she may misinterpret real world situations.

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Saturday, March 29, 2008 3:02 PM

BORIS


She's such a Racist.I had never considered the significance of the racial background of any of the characters in Joss Whedon's shows...because race doesn't matter in his worlds...which is the way it should be. "rant bitch" is obviously a racist, obviously unworldly, and obviously someone who is going through a serious self errosion process. Anyone who hates that vehemently is headed for hell in their own brain territory.

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 12:35 PM

KAYNA

I love my captain


Quote:

Originally posted by JRC:
Someone made a comment asking if she was going to analyze "Objects In Space". This is her reply:

"Yes, I plan to. I found Objects in Space to be horrifically racist. I can't believe that Joss was allowed to air a show that had such a terrible portrayal of Black men. I also found the portrayal of the Black man in the movie Serenity to be pretty horrifying too."

It's also quite funny how she has replied to only a select few people.

It's both sad and fascinating how she defines racism as a black man in the role of an antagonist. All I saw were interesting chracters being played wonderfully. They could just as easily have been white men and she wouldn't have had any issues with racism them. She doesn't seem to realize that you can be racist to people of any race. In this case though, it's not about color, it's about acting ability. And at least the Operative had ideals and convictions, unlike some of Firefly's caucasion villans (Badger).

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 5:13 PM

JOANNAHOBBIT


I think Joss Wheedon should sue her ass for these accusations against her and then use the money to make a new series of Firefly just to really piss her of and make us incrediblly happy.

I don't think she has the right to call herself any thing because in any culture she is just plain vindictive.

Joanna G

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 6:59 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


There are times when it seems that some of these feminazis consider "feminist" and "lesbian" to be redundant, interchangeable terms.

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Sunday, March 30, 2008 7:54 PM

JOANNAHOBBIT



I think i might be incrediblyy slow but check this out this video about a Serenity 2

Joanna G

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:40 AM

SPINEBITE


WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:40 AM

SPINEBITE


WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:40 AM

SPINEBITE


WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:40 AM

SPINEBITE


WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:40 AM

SPINEBITE


WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:40 AM

SPINEBITE


WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series. And about the 'duct tape' comment, Mal is obviously joking. This phsyco is taking Firefly and twisting it to her own sick, twisted, bizarre ends.

"This is the captain. We may experience some slight turbulence...then explode."

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Monday, March 31, 2008 11:58 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


This woman is an idiot. For lack of a more politically correct term. She is precisely the type that gives actual feminists a bad name.

I already have 7 pages of notes I shall post on her site.

Give me something to do at work.



I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Monday, March 31, 2008 2:07 PM

SHUKES


Was using stumble upon and i found this picture, thought some of you might enjoy it:


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Monday, March 31, 2008 3:51 PM

PARALIAN


I see her point in a couple of places, but it doesn't really bother me.

You know what she expects? A perfect world, a world without sin.

It's not like Whedon is saying his characters are all shiny. I really don't think any discrimination is a very big deal or a very big part of the story at all.

There are so many good things about Firefly that she didn't mention.

<3 Chiya
http://chiya.crisp-breeze.org

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Monday, March 31, 2008 7:41 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by spinebite:
WHOOO!!!! Serenity 2!!!!! Hopefully the video is right and Universal is seriously considering it, instead of just handing out false hope.

About the distorted views on Firefly: that woman is seriously crazy. Like 'belongs in a looney bin' crazy. Mal never tells nor told Zoe to shut up in ANY episode, and there is no racism whatsoever in the series.



Unless I am mistaken, Mal says Shut up! in the Pilot. When they are scavenging the Carrier and the Alliance ship comes by, Zoe says something, and then Mal says "Shut Up!" effectivekly to everybody, then says something like be quiet, and Wash, shut it down. Of course we all missed Joss's intentions because we did not think of Mal as "he-man White honky" nor Zoe as "submissive slave woman black subordinant" which was apparently obvious to all but us.

I wonder what the crazy feminazi thought when Mal asked Wash "you mean she vowed to obey?" and something like "how does that work?"

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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 7:48 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

In reference to Buffy the Vampire Slayer, it is replete with examples of strong female characters, from the literally physically strongest leader and 'hero' of the story Buffy, to the indisputably most intelligent character Willow. In contrast the men are portrayed as flawed, bumbling buffoons, who spend most of their time being rescued by the previously mentioned females. In a lot of ways its a 1950's vampire B movie turned on its head. In that respect there could be an argument for it not being feminist, because its arguably past feminism and into the realms of misandry.

Of course to someone who sees Buffy the Vampire Slayer as non-feminist, FireFly is going to feel like borderline misogyny. It does after all, show strong male characters along side the strong female one's, *gasp*! The problem with FireFly is its setting, its placed in a 'space western' universe, it's explained rather better than I can in Finding Serenity by Jane Espenson, but essentially the Western is very much a genre hinging on old fashioned chivalry, which somewhat hamstrings the feminist, or rather 'equality of the sexes' message, at any rate its old ground.

It does seem to be a lazy analysis to me, not because a lot of time or energy hasn't been spent on it, but because no insight has been gained, no actual analysis has taken place. The author has rather obviously approached the subject wishing to prove what they already knew, that Joss Whedon isn't a feminist, of course how could he, a man, be. All this article really shows is confirmation bias as it pertains to bigotry: replace men with Jew and you've got something written by Heinrich Himmler.

Which is really the point. She plays lip service to empowering women, but really she wants to oppress them as much as she wishes to oppress men. Reading the comments it's clear that she considers that all Women are really Lesbians, forced into heterosexual relationships by men, who, as we also find out, are all rapists. Apparently any male initiated sexual act, even consensual, is rape. She's not after empowerment of women, she's after homogenisation of women, all women have to be just like her. Basically what it's about is forcing the correct choices on Women, this might sound like the same thing as a oppressive patriarchy, but it's not because they're the correct choices, see.

Feminism is, apparently all about preventing women from making their own choices, being that women can't be trusted to do so. This from a real feminist?

Feminism is not misandry, it is not an outward hatred of all men, it is not openly bigoted statements like "I really am beyond worried about how much men hate us" (if anyone has a problem with my statement that, that is bigoted, I'd ask when it was they asked all men how they feel about women), and it is most certainly not a belief that women can't be trusted to make their own decisions. Its a terrible shame that the nobility of feminism is increasingly being co-opted by those who wish to oppress men rather than gain equality for women, and in that respect feminism has failed. Feminism aimed to stop men from objectifying women, but the strip clubs remain open, but in true equality women are now encouraged to, and do, objectify men in the same manner. Feminism aimed to eradicate misogyny, and has certainly succeeded in reducing it and rightfully vilifying it, but in return there has been a meteoric rise in misandry, women seeing men in the way misogynists see women. Perhaps the most disturbing facet of that is how misandry isn't also vilified, but almost encouraged and lauded openly in some circles. Feminism's success in getting women to ape some of the behaviours of men, that it was aiming to eliminate, has certainly lead to a form of equality, if a rather dystopic one.

It is, nonetheless an interesting critique on the Human condition, I weep for the species.



More insane ramblings by the people who brought you beeeer milkshakes!
No one can see their reflection in running water. It is only in still water that we can see.
]

Well, I for one don;t think anything else needs to be said on the matter. citizen has put it exactly right!

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 8:29 AM

CANTER


I didn't read the whole rant. Only the first page.

Surely no sane person could keep a straight face while reading such bile?

But the comments are even more disquiting. She actually has people AGREEING with her!!

The saddest one is this:

“Sometimes you just wanna DUCT TAPE HER MOUTH and DUMP HER IN THE HOLD FOR A MONTH.”

This is appalling. I think this calls for a pretty vicious rant and important action alert.


An important action alert.

O. M. G.





Big Damn Browncoat Vote http://richlabonte.net/tvvote/index.html


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Tuesday, April 1, 2008 9:08 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:
Quote:

Originally posted by citizen:
Define irony:
A misandrist declaring the vilification of all members of one sex wrong.

Well, I for one don;t think anything else needs to be said on the matter. citizen has put it exactly right!

Indeed - I completely missed this post first time around. My apologies for repeating your argument less eloquently Cit!

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