GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Dumbest thing in FF/Serenity...

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Monday, June 2, 2008 08:08
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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:34 AM

CHRISISALL


I'd say it was the idea that Inara could ever stand a guy like Atherton Wing.

Wow, hard to choose; the whole entity was so near-perfect IMO.

Over-analyzing Chrisisall


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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 11:45 AM

ZEEK


"Capital City"

I hate when shows do that. Who cares if they said you're the finest doctor in all of "schumtzville"? We'd still assume it's a pretty good complement. If the alliance was really that lame with naming conventions then what's with "Ariel" and "Miranda". Why not "Planet #213"? Pssh Capital City. So dumb. It annoys me every time I watch Safe.

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 2:45 PM

SUCCATASH


"We're in trouble! We better call Mr. Universe!"

and also

"I aim to misbehave."

Mal, you're so naughty! That is such tough talk for a hardened soldier.

"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:16 PM

STAPLES


I agree - where did Mr. Universe come from?! He'd never been in any of the episodes...WTF?!

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:28 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Staples:
I agree - where did Mr. Universe come from?! He'd never been in any of the episodes...WTF?!

He was more or less a humorous myth that no one took very seriously back in FF time, but after an incident where they discovered his true nature (not shown) they realized what help he could be in future, and made avail of it in Serenity.

Or so it's been said.

Bymeisall

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 3:43 PM

MRUNIVERSE1


I think Mr. Universe was an awesome addition to the movie.

"Would be you get your most poetical about your pecker"

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 5:15 PM

BLACKSHAMROCK5


"Lets moon 'em!" I love this show but...*shudder*

i guess there's no way to make love not break our hearts

Shamrock
www.myspace.com/clover718

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Wednesday, May 14, 2008 6:31 PM

SERGEANTX


Quote:

Originally posted by Succatash:
"We're in trouble! We better call Mr. Universe!"



That one gets my vote. I cringed inside.


SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:31 AM

SPACEANJL


Dumbest thing overall - probably Jayne! (But we love the big man-ape-thing)

Mr Universe as a recurring figure could have worked, if he was a little less omnipotent, part of some bigger network. (But David K is just a star, anyhow - a couple of scenes, and you just knew what this guy was like...question, though - did this predate the start of Numb3rs? *muppet voiceover* Epps in space...'cos Peter McNichol would be a hoot in FF)

I have a bit of problem with the whole BDM, really, 'cos I would love to have seen the storyline played out over time with subtlety, instead of crammed into crude money shots. And a tech issue - if the retinal scan screens are in most places, then there is no place to hide once you get on the grid, and I assume the Cortex to be no different. Basically, there's no explanation for how a system that big and obviously well monitored could let folks disappear and appear at will. Unless that explains Simon's cool sunglasses in 'FF:Serenity 1'



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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:51 AM

DUG


There's something in Firefly that's been bugging me recently. Take this quote, for instance:

"I wanted to do a show about people who are not 'super,' just working-class people, the people history steps on." - Joss Whedon on Firefly

There are other quotes like that as well. Hearing that quote, how the h311 do I fit River Tam into this 'verse? Even if I think of Serenity as changed due to being a movie, the series was still headed in a decidedly non-ordinary person direction for her.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 4:01 AM

SPACEANJL


Everyone else was the ordinary, and it was their response to being swept up with the non-ordinary that was the story.

Again, it would have been better to see it over time, because the big 'superhero powers' mcguffin was a bit crude. But you really have a small ship, with a couple of folk on it who have some larger history (Mal and Zoe have records as 'war criminals'), but basically just another small transport concern with shady contacts. The big story is that they just happened to be parked up where a couple of fugutives needed a ride.

The idea really begins to unravel when folk start imputing big secrets to Book and Inara as well. That's where the storylines lose all credibility.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:19 AM

KNIGHTREYEDER


Ok, here goes.

Mr. Universe worked fine. Nothing wrong with introducing newness in Serenity, hell, how can we know everything when there were only 13 episodes and a pilot? Plenty of room for the unusual.

The real thing that bugs me doesn't really make Firefly flawed, it's an inconsistency with Serenity. Unless I understand it wrong, Simon paid people to smuggle Summer out of where she was held (in cryo, remember?) and sent her to him. In Serenity he did it himself. That has always bugged me.

While we're on about things that are annoying. I love Firefly but the BDH thing, how Mal is supposed to have this big serious warrior rep (i.e. I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new) amongst other occurances, and yet he's this corny boyish hotdog in Zoe's battle recollections in The Message. Doesn't go with the rep very well and just made for a dorky humor moment. I'd have much preferred Mal's rep was supported with stuff like how bad he was in battle like when he manned the twin 50's in the pilot, or how 'maybe' he killed a whole squad hand to hand or something similar.

I need to rant once more. Inara's crying in Heart of Gold, what about that crap? Morena is a very capable actress and a very subtle quiet scene in her room with a dejected look and a single tear would have impressed me a lot more than that little girl moment that completely shoots down her companion training and experience. That's not a dig at her character or her acting, it's the writing I'm displeased with.

Having said all this stuff, I find way more flaws with other movies and series I watch, Firefly still has my vote as the GREATEST ever. Just needed that to go on record so as not to be misunderstood.

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 6:53 AM

DAVESHAYNE


In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.

Out of character: The trash bin from Trash. The way they present it it looks like they send this huge dumpster off to the landfill every time somebody drops a half empty bag of crap down the chute. And why would the guidance be in the bin instead of the drone?

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:03 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Lot's of dumb things in Firefly verse...not that any of them bother me enough to not love the show, but just some dumb things :

ARIEL :
Mal & Zoe attempt to use their forged ID cards with their thumbprints to gain access to the store room with all the drugs...but they don't work. So Mal takes the unconscious doctor's ID card, and with his own thumb gets in. I thought they should have dragged the doc to the sensor and used his thumb.

There just happened to be an un-attended and charged de-fib machine handy for Zoe to zap the obnoxious doc with? How convenient!


Hands of Blue guys kill an entire squad of Allliance officers...and there is no problem with that?

SAFE :

Mrs. Tam's staunch refusal to even accept the possibilty of her daughter being in danger & her naive assurrance that everything will be alright in a few months is a bit unbelieveable for me.

BDM :

Mal's shooting of the Alliance pilot who was trying to surrender was nothing but murder...didn't sit well with me...yes he killed Book and all the others, but he was trying to surrender.

How could the Operative have known all of the BDH's hideouts in such a short time? Seems a bit hard to believe for me.

Mr Universe : first wave ..ok I believe....second wave, when he was luring Mal in for the Operative I don't believe..he seemed just a bit too eager to please, and Mal's instict would have smelled it.

SHINDIG :
Boy that Mal & Kaylee can sure get around quickly! In the time Inara was dancing with Wing...Mal took Kaylee to get that dress, got a "suit" himself, dressed, shaved, showered(?) and then arrived in the ballroom while Inara was still dancing.

The young guy who was standing there when Kaylee came up and said " Don't you just love them?....bits of wrapping paper...." I thought she was sweet & charming...but that twit said nothing, just bowed and walked away...how rude! Like he had something better than Kaylee waiting for him? He was alone throughout the entire scene...maybe he was checking out the guys.

JAYNESTOWN :

Magistrate Higgins : now that's one screwed-up-in-the-head dude!
Was upset that he couldn't watch his son get laid? Yikes!

Stitch should have shot him and the prod foreman right on the spot the minute he got the shotgun.
I would have if someone had kept me in a 5X5 box for 4 years.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 7:56 AM

NBZ


Quote:

Mr Universe : first wave ..ok I believe....second wave, when he was luring Mal in for the Operative I don't believe..he seemed just a bit too eager to please, and Mal's instinct would have smelled it.


He did. Hence he got the reavers involved. (Let's face it, the whole scenario was contrived - Joss wanted a big space battle and the film needed a conclusion. Mr Universe popped out of nowhere. I still enjoyed it very much.)


Most of the things on that list, I actually liked. Thought they added character (except for timing stuff). They did not seem "dumb", overlooked to me, rather well thought out.

As for shindig, I guess there is probably some sort of servant's etiquette to follow. (you hear of celeb's who do not want the paid labour to be in the same room as them... and these are supposed to be the super rich.)

(I liked Mal murdering that soldier - it showed that Mal is not a "hero". He does questionable things, has questionable morals. When he gets too much into a situation he wants to do the right thing, but I would suggest that is not the norm.)

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 10:29 AM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
Stitch should have shot him and the prod foreman right on the spot the minute he got the shotgun.
I would have if someone had kept me in a 5X5 box for 4 years.


Yeah, that has always struck me as kinda odd as well.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:31 PM

BIGRICHARD


ARIEL:
Always confused me as well, though I guess it could be explained by saying that the thumbprint is simply logged, not some form of login? Though then, wouldn't Mal's thumbprints be on the system as a Thief/War Criminal?
Perhaps his thumbprint was put in the system with the ID card, but the ID card wasn't given adequate access, and thus he used the doctors, but his own thumbprint worked.


As for the HOB guys, I assumed they were some high level of Government/Blue Sun, and so they had all sorts of clearance, so that never bothered me so much.

SAFE :

River was away at a special school for the gifted, run by a government Mrs. Tam probably voted for, why would she have any reason to believe River was in trouble? She simply chose to believe in her government.


BDM :

I agree with the fact that Mal is a flawed character, and is meant to be questionable. He probably believes that the pilot isn't sorry for what he did, and so shouldn't be given another chance. Let's not forget that Mal saw some terrible things in the war, so he probably has little sympathy for anyone in the Alliance.

SHINDIG :
Pretty sure that was just manipulated timing, I don't think Mal ACTUALLY told Kaylee about it all at the same time Inara was dancing. Just because it cuts to that scene while they dance, it doesn't mean it's simultaneous, just means that you find out that Mal and Kaylee are going to the ball, when you're meant to.


That would be because he's a servant, and most of the people at the party would expect him not to talk to them, and would probably be angry and cruel if he did. Just think of those girls that Kaylee started talking to, imagine if the SERVANT talked to them.

JAYNESTOWN :

Pretty sure Magistrate Higgins was just making sure his son "turned into a man", he didn't want to watch, he just wanted to make sure that Inara just skipped all her Companion stuff and slept with him. Basically, he wanted a prostitute rather than a Companion.


yeah, i have too much time on my hands clearly, and most people probably thought some of that was obvious, but I'm at uni and I'm kinda bored, so yeah....

"Never f$@% with a browncoat dude...." - Kevin Smith

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 1:46 PM

CHARLIEBZ


Quote:

Originally posted by BigRichard:

That would be because he's a servant, and most of the people at the party would expect him not to talk to them, and would probably be angry and cruel if he did. Just think of those girls that Kaylee started talking to, imagine if the SERVANT talked to them.




I got the impression that he took one look at Kaylee's store bought dress and skeedadled. He struck me as slightly more polite than the girls in that he didn't verbally insult her but acted gentlemanly by bowing and walking away.

It could also be that Persephone society discourages talking to someone you haven't been properly introduced to. This would be keeping in tune with the whole Jane Austen influence.


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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:26 PM

RIVERLOVE


Quote:

Originally posted by BigRichard:
ARIEL:
Always confused me as well, though I guess it could be explained by saying that the thumbprint is simply logged, not some form of login? Though then, wouldn't Mal's thumbprints be on the system as a Thief/War Criminal?
Perhaps his thumbprint was put in the system with the ID card, but the ID card wasn't given adequate access, and thus he used the doctors, but his own thumbprint worked.


As for the HOB guys, I assumed they were some high level of Government/Blue Sun, and so they had all sorts of clearance, so that never bothered me so much.

SAFE :

River was away at a special school for the gifted, run by a government Mrs. Tam probably voted for, why would she have any reason to believe River was in trouble? She simply chose to believe in her government.


BDM :

I agree with the fact that Mal is a flawed character, and is meant to be questionable. He probably believes that the pilot isn't sorry for what he did, and so shouldn't be given another chance. Let's not forget that Mal saw some terrible things in the war, so he probably has little sympathy for anyone in the Alliance.

SHINDIG :
Pretty sure that was just manipulated timing, I don't think Mal ACTUALLY told Kaylee about it all at the same time Inara was dancing. Just because it cuts to that scene while they dance, it doesn't mean it's simultaneous, just means that you find out that Mal and Kaylee are going to the ball, when you're meant to.


That would be because he's a servant, and most of the people at the party would expect him not to talk to them, and would probably be angry and cruel if he did. Just think of those girls that Kaylee started talking to, imagine if the SERVANT talked to them.

JAYNESTOWN :

Pretty sure Magistrate Higgins was just making sure his son "turned into a man", he didn't want to watch, he just wanted to make sure that Inara just skipped all her Companion stuff and slept with him. Basically, he wanted a prostitute rather than a Companion.


yeah, i have too much time on my hands clearly, and most people probably thought some of that was obvious, but I'm at uni and I'm kinda bored, so yeah....

"Never f$@% with a browncoat dude...." - Kevin Smith


Your explanations are terrific! I also think the comments that brought them forth, and the thread in general are great.

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 PM

SPINEBITE


The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 PM

SPINEBITE


The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 PM

SPINEBITE


The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 PM

SPINEBITE


The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 PM

SPINEBITE


The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 2:55 PM

SPINEBITE


The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:18 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Riverlove:

Your explanations are terrific!

I second that! This BigRichard is my kind of scum; fearless and inventive!

Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:21 PM

DANCINGOTTER


Quote:

Originally posted by spinebite:
The only thing that ever really bothered me was that Stitch had a loaded shotgun, and yet he didn't shoot the people who kept him in tiny box for years on end(Magistrate Higgins and the Foreman).

"Pain is scary."



The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.

~Otter

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:23 PM

SPINEBITE


Quote:

DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.


Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:23 PM

SPINEBITE


Quote:

DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.


Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:23 PM

SPINEBITE


Quote:

DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.


Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:23 PM

SPINEBITE


Quote:

DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.


Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:23 PM

SPINEBITE


Quote:

DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.


Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:23 PM

SPINEBITE


Quote:

DancingOtter:The problem that I had with the scene is that after years in a small box, Stitch was able to stand, walk and within a couple of hours, go toe to toe with a man who works out regularly. His muscles should have been so atrophied that every movement should have been horrifically painful.


Indeed.

"Pain is scary."

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Thursday, May 15, 2008 3:27 PM

DANCINGOTTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Knightreyeder:

The real thing that bugs me doesn't really make Firefly flawed, it's an inconsistency with Serenity. Unless I understand it wrong, Simon paid people to smuggle Summer out of where she was held (in cryo, remember?) and sent her to him. In Serenity he did it himself. That has always bugged me.

While we're on about things that are annoying. I love Firefly but the BDH thing, how Mal is supposed to have this big serious warrior rep (i.e. I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new) amongst other occurances, and yet he's this corny boyish hotdog in Zoe's battle recollections in The Message. Doesn't go with the rep very well and just made for a dorky humor moment. I'd have much preferred Mal's rep was supported with stuff like how bad he was in battle like when he manned the twin 50's in the pilot, or how 'maybe' he killed a whole squad hand to hand or something similar.





I had a problem with the change in story with River's breakout and it broke the wall for me briefly.

As for Mal's behavior in the recollection in the Message, I assumed it was fairly early in the war, before he became so hard. I also didn't think it was too terribly inconsistent with his behavior in the beginning of the pilot episode.

~Otter

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 12:13 AM

BIGRICHARD


Well glad my comments were appreciated.

"While we're on about things that are annoying. I love Firefly but the BDH thing, how Mal is supposed to have this big serious warrior rep (i.e. I start fighting a war, I guarantee you'll see something new) amongst other occurances, and yet he's this corny boyish hotdog in Zoe's battle recollections in The Message. Doesn't go with the rep very well and just made for a dorky humor moment. I'd have much preferred Mal's rep was supported with stuff like how bad he was in battle like when he manned the twin 50's in the pilot, or how 'maybe' he killed a whole squad hand to hand or something similar. "

I think that Mal's character was a hard leader in the war, he was a hero, but I think the fact that he was quite boyish doesn't change this. The fact that he keeps making little jokes, in my opinion, is his way of being brave. These little jokes make others believe that he's not at all worried, and it's not as bad as they're thinking. Mal keeps the morale in his troops up this way....not to mention that, like DancingOtter said, it could be different points in the war, The Message flashbacks possibly being set near the start of the war, thus making Mal less 'hardened'. Perhaps in the beginning, the war was more of a game to Mal, and he just wanted to see some action, and then by the end of the war, he realised what he was fighting for.
Plus I'm sick of those "he killed a whole squad with nothing but his hands" things, as it's just so unlikely, and doesn't go well with Joss' vision of following 'ordinary people' in his 'verse. Mal isn't supposed to be particularly special, he isn't supposed to be some super hardened ex-soldier with nothing but a grudge and a gun, taking down everyone who stands in his way. This isn't The Punisher in space.

and now i'm just rambling again, so i'll shhhh...

"Never f$@% with a browncoat dude...." - Kevin Smith

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 4:05 AM

KNIGHTREYEDER


I will accept your take on Mal's character and understand it was the intent of the writing. I guess my previous comments were, well, just my comments.

How about this one then? In Bushwhacked, why did the kid turn into a Reaver? Do they carry around concentrated portable cans of the PAX to give to someone so they have a mate left on board when they come back or in case they missed someone in hiding? Pretty sure the animals don't even know why they're Reavers. I'm not buying that the only way to deal with a thing is to become it. We know what makes the Reavers and it ain't purely psychological.

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 6:46 AM

LEOPARDFLAN


My question is, if Reavers are such raging animals, how the heck are they able to fly space ships? And how would they be noticing "That dude's a fellow Reaver, he don't get ate", if they're crazy?

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#\/#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:16 AM

DASHILE


Quote:

Originally posted by Knightreyeder:

In Bushwhacked, why did the kid turn into a Reaver? Do they carry around concentrated portable cans of the PAX to give to someone so they have a mate left on board when they come back or in case they missed someone in hiding?



I don't think they meant he literally became a Reaver. He saw the horror that was done by the Reavers, and the only way to survive was to mimic, to "become it" as far as he could: cutting flesh, tongue, violence, and so on. He did not become a true Reaver, he just made himself as close to one as he could, in appearance and action.

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Saturday, May 17, 2008 7:24 AM

COSMICFUGITIVE


The flashing 'low battery' sign on Rance Burgess' laser gun, from 'Heart Of Gold', was quite tacky.

---


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Saturday, May 17, 2008 10:50 PM

KNIGHTREYEDER


Quote:

Originally posted by CosmicFugitive:
The flashing 'low battery' sign on Rance Burgess' laser gun, from 'Heart Of Gold', was quite tacky.

---




You have a point and with all those upgrades to that weapon how did he manage to miss Mal on a horse?

Not that I wanted our BDH hit mind you.....

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.


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Sunday, May 18, 2008 2:10 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
"Capital City"

I hate when shows do that. Who cares if they said you're the finest doctor in all of "schumtzville"? We'd still assume it's a pretty good complement. If the alliance was really that lame with naming conventions then what's with "Ariel" and "Miranda". Why not "Planet #213"? Pssh Capital City. So dumb. It annoys me every time I watch Safe.



Capital CIty reminds me of The Simspsons.




For me, things which stand out the most...

- Heart of Gold : The 'chase' scene where Mal , on a horse, tracks down Rance in his hover craft, jumps off the horse and lands on the hover craft, to punch Rance unconscious. Riiiiight.

- Jaynestown: The 'landing pad' was nothing more than a dirt field. Why not spend a few hundred $$$ to make it LOOK like there's some proper pad. It'd make the whole 'land lock' scenario easier to take....I mean, wtf is keeping them from taking off in the first place ? The weeds ?

- Our Mrs Reynolds: You'll note early in the show when Serenity takes off, there's all sorts of vegetation around the ship, but when the shot pulls back , the ship is out in a desert, with no sign of plants or settlement to be seen.

- The Message: The afore mentioned part about simply TELLING Tracy about the plan. 'nuff said.







It is not those who use the term "Islamo-Fascism" who are sullying the name of Islam; it is the Islamo-Fascists. - Dennis Prager

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 7:12 AM

PLATONIST


Heart of Gold...dumb, dumb

Rance owns a moon and has access to instant DNA testing, but he can't find a surrogate willing to carry his kid, and because of this he gets his head blown off by a reluctant whore that doesn't use birth control?

dumb

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Sunday, May 18, 2008 11:52 PM

SHAMELESS


Well, be fair - "The United States of America" isn't a very interesting name. Or half the names of towns. A lot of towns don't get named because the name sounds cool and interesting and different - it often has something to do with a characteristic of the town. Port Orchard - it has a port and it has orchards. Capital City - it's the capital and it's a city. But I think with planets... getting a new planet would be such a big deal in comparison to a new town (which usually starts as... a house - unless it's an organized effort, "Hey, let's randomly start a town! All together now!") that there would be a lot more interest in the name.

------------------------------------------
RPG launcher bought in third world country illegally - $10
Landmines - $50 per
Attack/track dogs bred 1st class - $250-500 per
Highpowered assault rifles - $600 per
The look on your face when I show up on your doorstep with a bigfoot - ... Priceless

"You gotta love that the first pirated HD DVD is the one about space pirates who broadcast a video that the government wants to keep secret.

Can't stop the signal."
-reavers_ate_my_dvd

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Monday, May 19, 2008 8:49 AM

LWAVES


I have no problem with the character of Mr. Universe but that name just sucks.

This would be followed by the 'low battery' light on the the laser in HOG, as mentioned above.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Monday, May 19, 2008 5:09 PM

SIRTHOMAS


Quote:

Originally posted by dug:
There's something in Firefly that's been bugging me recently. Take this quote, for instance:

"I wanted to do a show about people who are not 'super,' just working-class people, the people history steps on." - Joss Whedon on Firefly

There are other quotes like that as well. Hearing that quote, how the h311 do I fit River Tam into this 'verse? Even if I think of Serenity as changed due to being a movie, the series was still headed in a decidedly non-ordinary person direction for her.




River and Simon are definitely a big part of the story, but I think what Joss meant by what he was saying was kind of a way to show that the real crew are Mal, Zoe, Inara, Jayne, Wash, and Kaylee.

Even though the episode one starts with all the characters. This is the way I see it, and you might disagree but that’s cool cause my thought is just that, Mal and the others that I wrote out just above have obviously been together for awhile. The episode “Out of Gas” shows Mal and Zoe picking out the ship and then filling all the spots of the crew. I see it as the main crew here is who the story really is about, and River, Simon, and Book are things that have come into the “working class peoples” lives. If it was for these three, mainly Simon and River, then their lives would be just the same old thing every day you know.

Again just kinda how I can see what Joss was getting at. I think its Serenity that really focuses more on the whole River thing, but Joss was having to tell the whole story, instead of getting years to tell it.


Sua Sponte

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Monday, May 19, 2008 6:59 PM

ANOTHERSKY


I'm going to keep this to "dumb" things, not things-I-wish-didn't-happen, or things-concievably-in-character-once-in-a-blue-moon, or "minor plot holes"---mostly "improbabilities".
This is the really "ouch" stuff.

That said:
SERENITY

1.) Kaylee's "nethers" line---I think Mal voiced everyone's opinion.

2.) The Operative wimping out at the end, in combination with Mal's "what a whiner" line. Uh, like that was epic. Yes the show/movie is self-depricating, but that was just a major downer for plotline. Like Joss said, movies have to be different. It wasn't like the guy was some Rim baron they just owned, this was the destroy-the-world-as-we-know-it Operative.
If you're gonna raise the tough questions, be ready to have the guts to go there.

3.)Boom-flash effects vs. quality storytelling---NOT tapping Book, Wash and Inara, the three least explored characters, but killing off two of them instead.

FIREFLY

1.) Yes, we've all commented on the "The Message" stupid pills apparently imbibed by the whole crew when they make port and pick up Tracey. That was a major plot hole--we needed another restraint as to why they couldn't tell Tracey.

I'll think of more later and be annoyed that I didn't post...



Going for a ride.

Another Sky

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Monday, May 19, 2008 7:02 PM

ANOTHERSKY


Yeah, that was a little harsh, maybe not as polite as I'd like. Things have flaws. Hope nobody took it personal or nothin'. Cause I've got Vera.
:)


Going for a ride.

AnotherSky

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Monday, May 19, 2008 11:45 PM

KNIGHTREYEDER


Quote:


That said:
SERENITY

1.) Kaylee's "nethers" line---I think Mal voiced everyone's opinion.


Another Sky



Yeah but Jaynes response deadened the awkwardness pretty well I thought.....He is such a bummer sometimes and yet the real comic relief at others. I think I laugh at him more than I did at Wash.....

_________________________________________________
Mal's expression in the scrapyard when he first see's Serenity says it all.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 3:34 AM

MALACHITE


One of the dumbest things to me is the line, "We're humped", which is not used once, but three times in the pilot. Makes me cringe every time I hear it, especially when I'm showing the pilot to someone who has never seen it before and they go, "This is the intelligent, witty, creative dialogue you were referring to??" :)

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 4:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by AnotherSky:



Kaylee's "nethers" line---I think Mal voiced everyone's opinion.


Really? I thought Jayne voiced everyone's opinion....

Never kiss 'em on the mouth Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:53 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.



YES - that's bugged me (and apparently a few others in this thread) since I first saw The Message. Thought it was just me...

That, and the climax of War Stories, where Mal and Torture-Guy are fighting on the balcony-type thing and Zoe and Co. burst in, Zoe saying that Mal must kick Torture-Guy's butt hisownself, etc. Hate that whole scene - it's a disservice to what is otherwise one of my favorite episodes.

It was like nit-picking for the soul when we got here!

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 7:57 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Never kiss 'em on the mouth

Chrisisall



Yeah, about that...did Jayne ever elaborate on exactly where he does kiss 'em?

It was raisin' more questions than it answered when we got here!

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:09 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by WASHnwear:
Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.



YES - that's bugged me (and apparently a few others in this thread) since I first saw The Message. Thought it was just me...



The best light I can put on it is maybe they were doing some deep deconstruction thing with the usual trope of not telling the audience important parts of the plan to create drama (as seen in pretty much every episode of Mission Impossible and Inara's role in the caper from Trash) Kind of like, "See this is what happens if you don't spell out the plan in real life." It still seems mighty week.

Quote:

That, and the climax of War Stories, where Mal and Torture-Guy are fighting on the balcony-type thing and Zoe and Co. burst in, Zoe saying that Mal must kick Torture-Guy's butt hisownself, etc. Hate that whole scene - it's a disservice to what is otherwise one of my favorite episodes.


On this I disagree. That was just a wonderful way of showing how Mal differs from the usual Western Hero stereotype. Plus it was funny.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:20 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
That was just a wonderful way of showing how Mal differs from the usual Western Hero stereotype. Plus it was funny.


That was one of the greatest moments in the series IMO.

Chrisisall

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:23 AM

MAL4PREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
In character: Not telling Tracy the plan. Seriously all Mal has to do is say, "We're not turning you over to the Feds" and Wash doesn't get shot, Kaylee doesn't get taken hostage, and Tracy gets a chance to maybe learn a lesson and move on.

Did you notice that Mal did the same with Simon in Bushwhacked? Told him to go get his sister without explaining that he'd be hiding them, not handing them over. Mal likes to test people. Simon passed, Tracy didn't. Too bad the test almost killed Kaylee - Mal's plans aren't so bright sometimes.

I'm not disagreeing though - the whole plot for The Message was swiss cheese. What was supposed to happen when Tracy delivered his fancy organs? Would his own be waiting in a cooler?

I like the character Mr. Universe, but the first mention of him is surely stupid as can be. "Let's call Mr. Universe!" If only the name was different, or the line was delivered in a yes, this is silly way, the way that Joss often made fun of thin plot points on Buffy and Angel. It's just not possible to take that seriously.

Low battery in HoG? That whole bit of Mal chasing whatshisbutt down is just bad.

End of War Stories balcony exchange? Lacking, but not straight up dumb imho. Seems more like the dialogue or the timing or something could be adjusted and it'd work.

Now, Zoe doing her somersault and standing there in the line of fire for three hours while she draws her gun is dumb dumb dumb! I cringe every time.


-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 8:34 AM

WASHNWEAR


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by daveshayne:
That was just a wonderful way of showing how Mal differs from the usual Western Hero stereotype. Plus it was funny.


That was one of the greatest moments in the series IMO.

Chrisisall



Well shoot, DS and CIA, maybe I just need to lighten up...which has been suggested before in other connections. It's just always struck me as a contrivedly goofy moment at the end of what was decidedly not (to me) a goofy episode. I was (and still am) in late adolescence before I forgave the old Batman TV series for it's campy-but-clever treatment of the Caped Crusader...

These fictional worlds and characters are SERIOUS STUFF, dammit (grr...snort...#%!*$)

It was damaging my willing suspension of disbelief when we got here!

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:36 AM

CHARLIEBZ


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
What was supposed to happen when Tracy delivered his fancy organs? Would his own be waiting in a cooler?




Thank you! This part never made any sense to me. They scooped out his insides? Won't he need those sometime? Where are they?


The low battery on the laser gun doesn't bother me. I view that as illustrating the problems of relying too much on technology. You just can't beat good old fashioned bullet-spewing guns. Or, maybe a slight dig at Star Trek?

What did bother me in HoG is when Mal knocked Burgess off the speeder thingy. Wasn't there a baby in there?

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 10:38 AM

LEOPARDFLAN


No, the whore had her baby with her (I think)

#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#\/#~%~~*~~~&~~~*~~%~#

\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/$$\~~~*~~^~~*~~~/
98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature.

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:00 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:
Did you notice that Mal did the same with Simon in Bushwhacked? Told him to go get his sister without explaining that he'd be hiding them, not handing them over.



Yes, though, of course, he explained the plan to Simon during the commercial break so it's more a case of hiding the plan from the audience. I didn't see it as a test particularly.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Tuesday, May 20, 2008 2:56 PM

DANCINGOTTER


Quote:

Originally posted by mal4prez:

I'm not disagreeing though - the whole plot for The Message was swiss cheese. What was supposed to happen when Tracy delivered his fancy organs? Would his own be waiting in a cooler?

-----------------------------------------------
hmm-burble-blah, blah-blah-blah, take a left



Thank you! That bugged me too! Why would you steal from and run away from the people who have your innards? What was he going to do when he got to the black market dealers?

~Otter

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