Anybody ever watch Enterprise? by truk

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Anybody ever watch Enterprise?

POSTED BY: TRUK
UPDATED: Saturday, January 24, 2004 23:58
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VIEWED: 12810
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Wednesday, January 21, 2004 1:57 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by Wegg:

Is Angel any good? I try and bring myself around to watching it but. . . Vampires? Devels? It looks so. . . goofy.

After Firefly was cancelled, I turned to Buffy. I saw many of the episodes, but stopped watching it after I saw the season finalle (really good, btw).

Then I started watching Angel. Now I'm doing it strangely - I'm simotaniously half-way through season 1 and at the start of season 4, plus I'm keeping up with the new eps in Season 5.

The first season is pretty good, but the cool thing about this show is that every season is better than the last. Some of the newer eps are extrodinary - the one with Wesley's father comes to mind.

As good as Firefly? No. The premise just isn't as exciting.

Firefly
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Angel
BtVS
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MST3K
Every other television show ever

^It goes like that.
-Steve

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Friday, January 23, 2004 11:42 AM

DESIGNFLAW

Quote:
Originally posted by Talonpest:
Rant on Enterprise:

First and foremost, they completely wreck Trek continuity. Rick Berman's name shows up as executive producer on the episode of TNG when Picard says that first contact with the Klingon Empire led to war between the Klingons and the Federation, so you'd think he'd respect that as fact. But no- very first episode is about first contact with the Klingons, and no war is started- in fact, the Federation hasn't even been formed yet, so they shouldn't have met yet. At this point, according to the episode of TOS that introduced the Romulans, Eath and Romulus should be at war, fighting with lasers and nukes- but there's only been one episode with the Romulans (that I know of- I've pretty much given up on watching anymore).

Regarding your Klingon rant.. the relationship between the Klingons and Star Fleet are not exactly friendly in Enterprise. When Enterprise was heading back to Earth after the attack they were chased and attacked by Klingon ships. When Enterprise went to the Expanse they were again followed and attacked. 3 ships were chasing Enterprise until they got to or close to the Expanse when 2 broke off. The one commanded by Archer's Klingon nemesis continued to follow and was blown away by the "new" photon torpedos.

I would fully expect some sort of retalliation after this by the Klingons.. but they either don't plan on showing that part yet or may do it after this whole Xinidi thing(if it ever ends).

I don't remember when they're supposed to be at war with the Romulans either.. but perhaps thats in the future as well since they haven't had much interaction with them yet.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 4:49 PM

TALONPEST

No, they're not friendly. But they're not at war, either. The Klingons just want Archer. And they're not even supposed to come into contact until after the formation of the Federation, which is still a ways off- and that contact is supposed to lead to war. In Enterprise, the contact was Archer HELPING the Klingons by bringing a wounded guy back who had information stored in his bloodstream.

And the Romulan War, as mentioned in the TOS episode that introduced the Romulans (I think it was called Balance of Terror) happened before the formation of the Federation, and was fought with nuclear and laser weapons. Since they're already using "phase cannons" and "photonic torpedos," they've screwed that up. Plus there can't be very long between the current Enterprise time and the formation of the Federation- they must have been planning to do it within the standard seven year run of the last three shows- so that leaves little time for a full-blown war. They also can't say it already happened, because Archer made first contact with the Romulans in season 2.

It's just stupid. Why set it in the past of the Star Trek universe if you're just going to discard everything that's been said about that period of time? There was no reason for it either! They could have done great stories about the stuff that's only been mentioned in passing that would have thrilled the fans and been just as appealing to new viewers. They should either have stuck to the history that'd been established in the other shows or made their own damn universe so they don't trample all over Star Trek.

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Friday, January 23, 2004 9:32 PM

STEVE580

Quote:
They should either have stuck to the history that'd been established in the other shows or made their own damn universe so they don't trample all over Star Trek.

lol...like 'Star Trek' is above being trampled on...

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Friday, January 23, 2004 11:49 PM

TALONPEST

Hey, Star Trek is one of only two science fiction franchises to really have an impact on society (would have been three if Firefly was allowed to continue). It deserves a little respect, gorramit. Certainly more than Voyager or Enterprise gives it.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 12:14 AM

STEVE580

The movies were...alright.

The shows sucked. Every episode of every series. Well...I never saw an ep of DS9...but I'll wager it sucked, too.

Who wrote that crap? Who sat down to write, and came up with the script, and thought, "Ah! What fine teleision!" I could write shows thatare ten times better. Why don't any of the charactors have an kind of personality? Why do they not interact! Charactors are not just tools to carry out a plot -- they are the plot. If you don't give a damn about the people, you don't give a damn about the show.

The only charactors ever liked were Data and The Doctor (particularly the latter). These two had as much (more?) personality than anyone else, and best of all, they changed, they deveoloped, as time went on. No other charator can claim that.

So anyways...biblical plauges had an impact on society, too, but that doesn't make them good.
-Steve

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 2:13 AM

TALONPEST

Oh hey now- you can call TOS campy, but the Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic was all about character. And in TNG Data (who was FAR more interesting than Voyager's doctor, who was just a pale imitation of the former), Picard, and Worf were all very interesting characters.

And don't badmouth shows you haven't seen- DS9 was radically different from the rest. Sisko, Dax, Kira, Odo, even Bashier were all very cool characters with plenty of flaws to keep them interesting. They had plenty of great villains too- the Klingons, the Romulans, Kahn, The Borg (who were utterly ruined by Voyager)... all great.

I don't really know what you're talking about when you say the characters don't have personality and don't interact. I for one like the fact that for the most part they kept the relationships between the crewmembers businesslike, otherwise it would cease to have a military feel to it and it really would be galavanting around space in their pajamas (like Voyager did).

I disagree with your statement that characters are the plot. I think it's more along the lines of how characters respond to the plot that makes things interesting. And the very fact that there is such a wide difference between Kirk's and Picard's stlye of command implies that there is something to the way their characters react.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:25 AM

STEVE580

But all the charactors respond to the plot in the exact same way. Like smeone else pointed out, the charactors could all switch lines, and you wouldn't be able to tell.

When I say they don't interact, that's because they don't. They discuss each episode's problem, and solve them together, but then what? I mean, these people are together on the ship twenty-four hours a day, but you never catch a glimpse at their private life. None of them have any type of relationship beyond being co-workers.

You mention the pajamas - I always wondered why they never actually wore pajamas, on the bridge. I mean, if they was night time on the ship, and they were suddenly attacked, would they all really take the time to put on their uniforms before reporting to the bridge? I doubt it...
-Steve

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 9:53 AM

TALONPEST

Ha, obviously you haven't watched "every single episode" or else you'd know that there were LOTS of personal relationships. In fact, too many for my tastes at times, since it diluted the military feel of the shows.

TOS didn't have any really (there was only one woman on the cast) other than the Kirk/Spock/McCoy thing which was a personal friendship. That came out more in the movies. TNG on the other hand had a Riker/Troi thing, a Picard/Crusher thing, and even a Worf/Troi thing before going back to the original Riker/Troi thing. Picard's personal life activities included amature archeology and theatre, to name a couple. DS9 had a Odo/Kira thing, a Worf/Jadzia Dax and Bashier/Ezri Dax thing, Sisko (who liked to cook and play baseball) had a son and married his second wife on the show, O'Brian (who'd gotten married and had a kid on TNG) had lots of family issues on the show. I'm not even going to go into Voyager's personal relationships because that was like frickin' Melrose Place in space.

In the earlier shows, the lines were NOT interchangable. Worf, Data, and Picard's lines certainly couldn't be swapped. Same went for DS9. On Enterprise they can, and that's why we're bitching about it.

And to answer your pajamas question, there were one or two times when Picard would come onto the bridge out of uniform in a hurry.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 4:03 PM

STEVE580

Well, Ross really likes dinosaurs, and Racheal loves to clean. The charactors on Star Trek are about as well-developed as those on Friends; differance is, Friends is a sitcom.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 4:03 PM

STEVE580

Well, Ross really likes dinosaurs, and Racheal loves to clean. The charactors on Star Trek are about as well-developed as those on Friends; differance is, Friends is a sitcom.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 5:38 PM

TALONPEST

Actually, Friends is a soap opera with a laugh track. But that's beside the point- you said that there was no development of Trek character's personal lives, and I just gave you some examples. Obviously I didn't go very in depth, but without rewatching a bunch of episodes I can't pick out specific detailed character developing incidents.

Obviously you haven't watched much Star Trek. I know it's fun to bash the establishment, but I'd suggest sitting down and watching more than a couple of episodes, enough so that you know the characters' names, before passing judgement on how developed their characters are. I like to give that courtasy to any show (other than reality TV) before I judge it- for example, I know that Monica is the neat freak on Friends, not Rachel.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 10:49 PM

STEVE580

Dude...Star Trek is gay.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:00 PM

TALONPEST

Well THAT was an articulate argument. Usually when someone I'm debating with has to fall back on "that's gay" I consider it an argument won.

Come on man, don't judge things you've never seen. I'm telling you, sit down and WATCH some TNG or DS9 (for the best episodes, post season 3 of either series) and you'll see there's more to it than you're giving it credit for.

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:26 PM

STEVE580

I told you, I've seen the shows. Well, not DS9...

Do any channels air re-runs of that show? People seem to think it was the best of the bunch, so I would be interested in seeing it.

But TNG...it isn't good.

I was never 'arguing', just...stating facts

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Saturday, January 24, 2004 11:58 PM

3OF19

Don't feed the troll.

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