GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Joss speaks

POSTED BY: NCBROWNCOAT
UPDATED: Tuesday, October 28, 2008 17:28
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7047
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Sunday, October 26, 2008 4:48 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


Joss posted on Whedonesque about Doll House.

You might want to have a cup of coffee to clear your head of the sleepiness (or hangover or whatever) before you read it.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/17945






http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/









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Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:29 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


Come on folks, it's Joss.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/





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Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:03 AM

FREELANCERTEX


why is he always forced to deal with stupid people that mess things up? @_@ still love the tone in which he wrote the blog though XD can't wait for dollhouse.


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Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:18 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


It's very difficult to read his posts. He spends 50 words to say one. I wish he would provide a abstract at the beginning to summarize, or in this case, actually say what was on mind. Even now I'm not sure what the point is. Not everyone has a sense of humor or a personality - some of us need structure and grammar.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:40 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It's very difficult to read his posts.



I think you misspelled entertaining in that sentence.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 1:37 PM

TUJIAOZUO


Ah Joss.

I just reread Sugarshock the other day (Winner of the 2007or2008 Eisner for Best Digital Comic, the correct year escapes me) that just reminded me of it and all of of it's glorious randomness. Granted his post wasn't completely random, it was just utterly Joss.

Your Indian Pirate Lord,
Ash

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 2:34 PM

OPTIMUS1998


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
It's very difficult to read his posts. He spends 50 words to say one. I wish he would provide a abstract at the beginning to summarize, or in this case, actually say what was on mind. Even now I'm not sure what the point is. Not everyone has a sense of humor or a personality - some of us need structure and grammar.



I'm sorry you have trouble reading his posts, but I for one find it pretty natural, cuz i un/fortunately tend to think the way posts...
(very, random train of thought, what i like to call OLSS or, Oh, Look! Something Shiny! syndrome)

Make Cartoons, Not War
- Sue Blu
Well played, Clerks...
- Leonardo Leonardo(Clerks Cartoon)

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 3:45 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by ncbrowncoat:
Joss posted on Whedonesque about Doll House.

You might want to have a cup of coffee to clear your head of the sleepiness (or hangover or whatever) before you read it.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/17945

Sadly, this is not a naughty post. It's just Joss nattering on again.

I thought it was time to check in with you once again, gentle viewers. Or readers. Or pictures-looker-ats (that might be viewers). Also listeners, sniffers, haberdashers, Olympic hopefuls, the elderly, the youngerdly, and the mighty state of Oregon (go Oregon-based sports franchise!) Welcome all. Welcome... to me.

What's me up to? I'm glad me asked. Me've (I'm not doing that any more) been working on a little show called Dollhouse. Yes, perhaps you've read about how it's blazing an untrammeled path to surefire success, with nary a hitch or a hiccup, just pure blazing blazery, comet-like and meteoresque. What's that, you say? You've read other things? Dark, Yog-Sothothy rumors about shutdowns and delays? Poppycock! They’re true. But I never pass up a chance to say "poppycock". ("Balderdash" is so '07. Let it go.) I know there's been a lot of concern, various fabulous hues of panic alert readiness. So here's the skinny. Some of the names have been changed.

The show was ruined by Flim Flinear. Okay, that's another lie, and you're probably close to giving up on this blog, so here we go. Yes, we've had to make adjustments. Yes, it's been hard and I've been depressing to be around for awhile. Basically, the Network and I had different ideas about what the tone of the show would be. They bought something somewhat different than what I was selling them, which is not that uncommon in this business. Their desires were not surprising: up the stakes, make the episodes more stand-alone, stop talking about relationships and cut to the chase. Oh, and add a chase. That you can cut to. Nothing I hadn't heard before on my other shows (apparently my learning curve has no bendy part) but frustrating as hell given our circumstances - a pilot shot, scripts written, everybody marching together/gainfully employed... and then a shutdown. Glad I was for the breathing room, but it's hardly auspicious. So back into the writer cave I went, wondering why I put up with this when I can make literally dozens of dollars making internet movies. Why I do put up with this is divided into three parts.

One: They're not wrong. Oh, we don't see eye-to-eye on everything, but wanting the first episodes to be exciting and accessible is not exactly Satanic. Being Satan is, but that's in their free time and hey, there's no judging in the Dollhouse. This kind of back and forth has happened on every show I've done, so if you liked those, chances are that was a part of why. And the need to focus on the essentials of what makes this universe tick - and which wire to cut to make it stop - really does bring up our game. So we as a staff have gone from blinking like unhoused moles to delving in with the same relish we had when we started. The show is really coming together now, in a way that I believe excites us and satisfies the Network. Of course, I have no idea if anybody else will like it, but I have the same faith in the staff, the crew and the remarkable cast that I always did. More, in fact. And what's more crucial:

Two: Nothing essential has changed about the universe. The ideas and relationships that intrigued me from the start are all there (though some have shifted, more on that), and the progression of the first thirteen eps has me massively excited. The episode we're shooting now I wrote as fast as anything I have before, not because I had to (although, funny side-note: I had to) but because I couldn't stop the words from coming. Because I can feel the show talking to me; delighting, scaring and occasionally even offending me. It's alive. Alive! Which is a far cry from how I felt a month ago. It's been hilarious trying to keep up with what's in, what's out, who's met whom and when - we've shot all of the first seven episodes out of airing order - but it's come together in a pretty thrilling way. My huge gratitude to our cast for their precision and patience. Which also includes...

Three: Eliza. Watching her on the monitors at two o'clock this morning I was reminded forcibly how much I wished I were in bed – but also how strong, radiant and unmistakable her presence is. She's someone who could coast on talent and never ever does. I love to watch her work. In fact, I think I got myself into this mess for that very reason, and though I have this fall occasionally sworn never to eat lunch with an actor I like again, I’m pretty pleased and crazy proud.

So here's me, slogging away on a show like days of old and not hating life. Again, you guys will be the judge, jury and execu... lawyer, but we do have something to show you. Something, I'm chuffed to say, still pretty damn strange.

As for what's been changed, well, some things I obviously can't tell you. Some I can, for the record: The original pilot was in fact thrown out. Again, at my behest. Once it became clear what paradigm the Network was shooting for, it just didn't fit at all, even after I'd reshot more than half of it (see above re: despair). To get a sense of how completely turned around I was during this process, you should know there was a scene with Eliza and the astonishing Ashley Johnson that I wrote and shot completely differently three different times, with different characters in different places (actually I wrote it closer to eight times), and none of it will ever see air. Which is as it should be (though I'm determined to get Ms. Johnson back in the future). The scene just didn't belong anymore. Similarly, the character of November has fallen out of the mix, because the show simply moves too fast now for me to do what I wanted with her. Season three, anyone...? Happily, Miracle Laurie is still with us in a new role, playing against (and pining for) Tahmoh's character, Paul Ballard. Their chemistry is deeply nifty. The only other major cast shift is that the Dollhouse head of security, Laurence Dominic (played by Reed Diamond), who was written just for the now-defunct first ep, has stuck like fly-paper, and Reed is very much in the family for the present. (Most of my problems seem to involve my actors making themselves indispensable. This is the good problem kind.)

Apart from that, it's all hush-hush: some things I'd intended to hold back are laid out much sooner, and some are rolling out more slowly. We're still heading toward Tim's intense two-part mind-blower - right before a thirteenth ep that may actually just be insane.

And finally, young Steve DeKnight, after writing and shooting an ep so cool it helped not only define the show but save its ass, is ending his consulting duties, the f#%&er. I will be crying on the shoulder of Jane Espenson come Monday, so congratudolences are in order. Excited for the Jane Flava.

And there you have it. I'll be writing more bulletins about "Cabin" and a certain DVD in the very near future, but I wanted to get you all some actual information for a change. I can count on you guys not to tell anyone, right? What's a blog?

Faithfully, -joss.

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/




Random unrelated thought : One 'a' in Morena...

It's hardly unfair to do the fruity-quoty thing when it comes to Joss...

When we get a 'leak' of this magnitude , it's a Browncoat's sacred duty to pass it along as widely and as heightly as possible...

Must say I concur completely with the #3 thing above...

Mark my words , that factor will make Joss completely forget that faddish atheism...

When I watch her on the monitors at 2 in the morning , I also find myself wishing I was in bed...Wishing she was in bed...

My Favorite Albanian-American dream , she's welcome to play in my Dollhouse any time...

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:14 PM

SIGMANUNKI


I mostly agree with Finn. It's just, I got what he was saying. Which was, here's some actual information. Not that there was much amongst the meaningless nonsense. But, there was some there.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 5:52 PM

CANTTAKESKY


Joss doesn't write to impart information. He writes to entertain. One reads his posts to get information as much as one watches SNL for the news. It's a style one can't take too seriously; you get it, or you roll your eyes.

I have to say though, of all his posts, this one sounds really like he wrote it at 2 in the morning. But hey, he's allowed to write a semi-coherent post on the internet at 2 am. Who here hasn't?

--------------------------
Dr. Horrible Karaoke


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Sunday, October 26, 2008 6:23 PM

FREEBROWNCOAT


AS much as I was entertained by the post, I was hit by the fact he said nothing to US. He really can't. He's in his world which takes all he has just to be creative at his level. It's an impressive level too. To write what he does, what any selling writer does, has to be impressive or they starve. One day he may be allowed to turn his attention back to OUR 'verse and it'll be a happy day when that happens.
Alas, I'll likely be having a snowball fight in hell when that day comes. Still, I hope.


"Might have been the losing side, Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 7:58 PM

TWILIGHTSEEKER


I also admit to understanding and enjoying Joss' style of writing/rambling. Sounds a bit like River sometimes doesn't he? No wonder I always seem to understand her...now that's all kinds a unsettling.

I am just glad to see him taking the time to give us an update on any thing.

Anyone who has lived with those possessed with the creative spirit knows they sometimes have trouble surfacing enough to wave to the rest of us sitting on the river bank as they swim by.

gentle journey all,
twilight seeker

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 10:03 PM

SIGMANUNKI


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

Joss doesn't write to impart information. He writes to entertain.




Except for the fact that this time 'round he did write to impart information. And he almost failed, which is quite sad.


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

It's a style one can't take too seriously; you get it, or you roll your eyes.




Except that this is always the way I have seen him behave. In interviews, etc. Quite frankly, knowing him beyond his actual work diminishes him in my eyes.

This also isn't about "getting it." One can "get it" and still not like it. I "get" what he's trying to do, I just think he's failing at it. Basically, because he tries too hard and it really really shows.


Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:

I have to say though, of all his posts, this one sounds really like he wrote it at 2 in the morning. But hey, he's allowed to write a semi-coherent post on the internet at 2 am. Who here hasn't?




I'm going to have to say that you're making a lot of assumptions in this part. Which is never a good thing. But, worse yet, you take those assumptions and run with them like they are fact. Never a good idea.

I'm also going to have to say that whether I (or anyone here) has made semi-coherent posts late-night is moot. This is his job and that changes what is and is not acceptable for him to do, behave, etc. In other words, for someone to make a post, which is about his/her profession/regarding there work/etc, in this way is not professional. If he wanted to let us know what was going on, he should have waited until he was capable of doing so in a manner dictated by his standing.

And now I stand waiting to get flamed by the Whedonites.

----
I am on The Original List (twice). We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

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Sunday, October 26, 2008 11:23 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Always love a good Joss post, and this one is great!!!

I guess nothing worthwhile comes easy (especially to Joss) so while it may seem alarming that he's had to do re-writes I'm sure it'll mean quality.

Sad to hear Steven DeKnight wont be working on the project any more though. I always enjoyed his stuff. Pity. However the ever reliable Jane Espenson is still on hand, so lets hope there are going to be some funny episodes.

Good Luck Joss and Co.





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Monday, October 27, 2008 3:46 AM

HELL'S KITTEN


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
And now I stand waiting to get flamed by the Whedonites.

ZOMG!!1!
y u hatin'?!?
ur not a tru fan!
etc.etc.etc.

Now that that's over... I agree with you completely. To "get" something doesn't automatically equate to "like" something. It's like he's always on... always trying to entertain... when sometimes, you can just stop and you won't be any less awesome. As it is, I just kind of skim his posts in hopes of finding the content. After a while, the randomness and "entertainment" looks just like every other post he's ever written. ((shrug)) Oh, well. I guess as long as he keeps writing....

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Monday, October 27, 2008 5:56 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by SigmaNunki:
Except for the fact that this time 'round he did write to impart information.



There we differ. He's not a journalist. He's a comedian. In my view, every time he interacts with the public, his underlying motive is to entertain.

Quote:

This also isn't about "getting it." One can "get it" and still not like it.

If you don't like Joss' style of talking and writing, then you don't get it. You know what he is doing, but you don't understand why it is entertaining or funny. That is ok. His mannerisms don't have to please and entertain everyone. We who "get it" (that is, find Joss funny) cut Joss some slack when he isn't as funny or cogent as he usually is.

And geez SigmaNunki, what's with lecturing me about assumptions? We're not even on RWED, and you can't restrain the flame? Cmon, who needs a hug?

--------------------------
Dr. Horrible Karaoke


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Monday, October 27, 2008 7:53 AM

ZEEK


We will mourn the loss of CantTakeSky. One wonders how things would have been different if it weren't for that fateful post where he told HK she's wrong. May God have mercy on CantTakeSky's soul.

Seriously, I don't think you can tell someone that they must find something funny and entertaining if they understand it. You are entertained by Joss's blog style and that's great. I enjoy it too. Can't please everyone all the time though.

As for the actual Joss post I can't help but feel wishy washy about it. One the one hand I'm really looking forward to what he's come up with for Dollhouse. On the other hand I really wish we could see what he intended Dollhouse to be. On the other other hand I still get the strong impression Dollhouse won't last long. Let's hope that last hand is full of it.

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Monday, October 27, 2008 8:07 AM

MISSKITTEN


I've gotta say that the mention of Fox throwing out the pilot episode gives me a bad feeling. When will Fox EVER learn? Another bad feeling I got was the "cut to the chase" attitude. It's the same attitude that gave Firefly such poor treatment from them :( I don't want to see yet another brilliant project of Joss suffer the same fate.

*~*~*

"Joss, if you kill him now I'll stuff a compression coil up your ass sideways!"
~ Kaylee, "Serenity in 2000 words or less"

Kaylee's the perfect woman!

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Monday, October 27, 2008 8:07 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
We will mourn the loss of CantTakeSky. One wonders how things would have been different if it weren't for that fateful post where he told HK she's wrong. May God have mercy on CantTakeSky's soul.

Is the wink for the mourning or the loss? Seriously though, which fateful post were you referring to? I'm scratching my head.

Quote:

As for the actual Joss post I can't help but feel wishy washy about it. One the one hand I'm really looking forward to what he's come up with for Dollhouse. On the other hand I really wish we could see what he intended Dollhouse to be. On the other other hand I still get the strong impression Dollhouse won't last long. Let's hope that last hand is full of it.
Yeah, me too--exactly with the 3 hands.

I love Joss' work. Sometimes though, I really appreciate the difference when he collaborates with other amazing screenwriters/directors like Minnear and Greenwalt. IMHO, usually the feedback from other creative folk tend to make his products better, not weaker. Pressures from studio folk fall into a different category though. From the accounts I hear, it seems those suit-types don't "get" Joss. (They understand what he is doing, but they don't find it entertaining.)

--------------------------
Dr. Horrible Karaoke


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Monday, October 27, 2008 8:14 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Hell's Kitten:
I agree with you completely. To "get" something doesn't automatically equate to "like" something.



Quote:

Originally posted by canttakesky:
If you don't like Joss' style of talking and writing, then you don't get it. You know what he is doing, but you don't understand why it is entertaining or funny. That is ok. His mannerisms don't have to please and entertain everyone. We who "get it" (that is, find Joss funny) cut Joss some slack when he isn't as funny or cogent as he usually is.



Unless it was sarcasm it seems to be the exact opposite. You do say it's ok which is a start, but I still don't think you can tell other people what should and shouldn't be funny to them.


Oh and the wink is more because I'm just kidding. I don't think anyone's gonna actually kill you. It's just funny that the two posts contradicted so much right next to each other.

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Monday, October 27, 2008 8:58 AM

CANTTAKESKY


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
You do say it's ok which is a start, but I still don't think you can tell other people what should and shouldn't be funny to them.


That wasn't my intention at all. Perhaps I should have emphasized it more, but it truly is ok that some people don't find Joss' ramblings entertaining and don't "get" Joss' humor. I apologize that it came across that I was trying to dictate what they should "get."

My main point was Joss wasn't trying to be informative as much as entertaining. So if you're looking for information and don't get his brand of humor, then his posts are not going to be of much value. AND THAT IS OK.

--------------------------
Dr. Horrible Karaoke


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Monday, October 27, 2008 12:53 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Joss is a director/producer and a screenwriter, not a comedian, but I do agree that his remarks are driven by a desire to connect with what he perceives to be his audience. As the recognized father of Buffy-Speak, I think he feels probably correctly that his fans expect a certain style to his comments. But Buffy is over and now his audience is much more eclectic then it used to be. I’m not suggesting that he stop what he’s doing, just recap in English for those that don’t get it. I got nothing from his post. And I realize that I’m probably the crotchety old man waiving my finger at the young whippersnappers, but it’s not because I want you off my lawn, I just want to know what’s going on.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Monday, October 27, 2008 2:08 PM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I just want to know what’s going on.



In a nutshell and bear in mind this is only my interpretation. Joss and Fox had different visions in their heads regarding what a show called Dollhouse would be. Changes were made in the area of increasing the action content. Because of these changes some characters and plots have been cut out, some have been added, and the original rejected pilot had about half it's content re-shot but still didn't work so wont be shown at all. (I do hope some enterprising intern has gotten a copy of this in some form so we can all violate the hell out of copyright laws and download it to our desktop appliances for viewing at leisure.) Joss was feeling somewhat depressed about all this but he's gotten better.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

http://xkcd.com/386/

"Don't worry. Captain Hammer will save us." - Penny.

I has myspace - http://www.myspace.com/daveshayneforpresident

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Tuesday, October 28, 2008 3:00 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Thanks, daveshayne. I really would never have gotten all that from Joss's post.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, October 28, 2008 9:48 AM

TVCHICK


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Not everyone has a sense of humor or a personality - some of us need structure and grammar.

I would think it'd be very hard for someone like that to be a Joss fan.

I love his quirky-ness.
Joss posts = Me happy!

---
You know what the secret to flying is? Love.

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Tuesday, October 28, 2008 10:02 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


They make me laugh too. He is obsessively, compulsively creative. I don't think he can say even the simplest thing simply. As puzzling as his posts can be there's always some good nuggets:

"What's me up to? I'm glad me asked. Me've..."

"apparently my learning curve has no bendy part"

"so congratudolences are in order"

I'd love to hear what his answering machine message is like, it's probably 20 very funny minutes.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com


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Tuesday, October 28, 2008 5:28 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by TVChick:
Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Not everyone has a sense of humor or a personality - some of us need structure and grammar.

I would think it'd be very hard for someone like that to be a Joss fan.

Not as much as you might think. Joss is not a comedian, as I pointed out. Although many people may find him funny, his real talent lies in the dramatic and the ironic. Much of his work can be understood on a much deeper and often more rewarding level then it frequently is by certain segments of his audience.




Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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