GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

My last question for 08

POSTED BY: ZZETTA13
UPDATED: Thursday, January 1, 2009 04:50
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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:14 AM

ZZETTA13


Howdy browncoats,

My last question of the year (from Ariel). Did Jayne learn his lessen when it comes to bargaining with authority and deals with the Alliance, or is he gonna try it again in the BDSequel or FF season 2? My bet is that Jayne, one of the best dang characters created on tv will at some time in the future try to turn the Tams in again for profit. This doesn’t have me disliking the guy any more or less I just figure that Jayne is the animal that he is, just as Mal is Mal and Book is Book. Even with his loyalty to Mal he does however have an overriding fondness for the SHINY stuff.

As long as Malcolm is aboard Serenity the Tams are safe, but what if Mal were kidnapped or jailed for a time? Me thinks River needs a voodoo doll of the big mercenary. Maybe hold his a$$ over a fire from time to time. What say you?

Z



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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 4:33 AM

WHOZIT


In my opinion, Jayne will always take the best offer, BUT! In Serenity he stepped up and became a hero, "If you can't do somthin smart, do somthin right". I think if the show had'nt been canceled, we may have seen Jayne soften (a little) as the crew became family.

I'm going to microwave a bagel and have sex with it - Peter Griffin

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:10 AM

AUDELAIR


I thought about this a lot after I finished the series. My conclusion was "no", he would not try to sell out the Tams. I don't think Whedon would have wanted to revisit the idea of Jayne betraying the Tams because it would have made his character boring.

I think Whedon tried to resolve this from many angles, as well:
- First, Mal's chat with him in the airlock shook him real well.
- Simon and River found out about it, and Simon forgave him, and I think Jayne respected that.
- The operative stated at the end of the movie, that the Alliance is no longer after the Tam's. So the focus of the crew's conflicts with the Alliance should no longer surround the Tam's. It's likely Jayne will never get another offer.
- He got screwed by the feds, anyway, so he may see very little reason to trust them again in the future, no matter how good the offer is. I think Whedon was very purposeful in having the Alliance screw Jayne.
- Jayne rightfully is probably scared of River by this point.

Also, it's important to realize that Mal always knew that Jayne is the betraying type. Mal got Jayne to betray his old crew, so he's certainly aware of the risk of betrayal. Mal was very well aware of how much Jayne disagreed with Mal's decision to keep the Tams on board. Mal was also confident enough in Jayne's betrayal to knock him out with a wrench without any proof.

Yet, Mal still trusts Jayne and even lets him stay very well armed. The fact that Jayne is the betraying type, and the fact that Jayne often vehemently disagrees with Mal (regarding the Tams, regarding giving back the cargo, regarding going through Reaver territory), and the fact that Mal knows all this and still trusts him, and that Jayne always pulls through... I think this is one of the great mysteries of the show. Mal has a tremendous power over Jayne that is never explained. This is the invisible bond that holds the crew together, and I think Jayne's relationship with the crew was one of the most brilliant plot devices.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 7:11 AM

LEEDAVIDT


Jayne: What're you takin' it so personal for? It ain't like I ratted you out to the feds!
Mal: Oh, but you did! You turn on any of my crew, you turn on me! But since that's a concept you can't seem to wrap your head around, then you got no place here. [Pause.] You did it to me, Jayne. And that's a fact.
. . .
[Resigned to his fate, Jayne calls Mal on the comm-link one last time.]
Jayne: What're you gonna tell the others?
Mal: About what?
Jayne: 'Bout why I'm dead.
Mal: I hadn't thought about it.
Jayne: Make something up. Don't tell 'em what I did.
[Mal relents and closes the door.]
Mal: The next time you decide to stab me in the back, have the guts to do it to my face.
(Mal walks away.)
Jayne: Can I come in?
___________________________________________
i think jayne is a plain ol'mercenary...but i don't ever see him turning on the captain... i really think jayne is important to mal...reason #1 he didn't let him get sucked out into the the atmo...course he's got VERA too !

http://www.myspace.com/leedavidt


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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 11:49 AM

KATESFRIEND


Jayne was ready to sell River out in Serenity, when he tried to take her on a shuttle ride off the ship right before River located Miranda. The question then is did the events in the BDM change Jayne enough that he won't do it again.

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:12 PM

TDBROWN


Quote:

Originally posted by Katesfriend:
Jayne was ready to sell River out in Serenity, when he tried to take her on a shuttle ride off the ship right before River located Miranda. The question then is did the events in the BDM change Jayne enough that he won't do it again.



You have a point there. Remember, Jayne even went so far as to ask, "No chance of a re-ward, then?" The only thing that really "got" to Jayne was the recording they encountered on Miranda. It was That which caused jayne to quote the Shepherd about doing the right thing.

There has even been some Fan Fiction dealing with this. I can't recall the author, but there was one Fic that had jayne trying to profit from the "fame" of having exposed the Miranda Scandal. A Mercenary to the end... That's our Jayne!

"Might have been the losing side, still not convinced it was the wrong one." -Mal

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Wednesday, December 31, 2008 12:24 PM

OUT2THEBLACK


Quote:

Originally posted by audelair:
I thought about this a lot after I finished the series. My conclusion was "no", he would not try to sell out the Tams. I don't think Whedon would have wanted to revisit the idea of Jayne betraying the Tams because it would have made his character boring.

I think Whedon tried to resolve this from many angles, as well:
- First, Mal's chat with him in the airlock shook him real well.
- Simon and River found out about it, and Simon forgave him, and I think Jayne respected that.
- The operative stated at the end of the movie, that the Alliance is no longer after the Tam's. So the focus of the crew's conflicts with the Alliance should no longer surround the Tam's. It's likely Jayne will never get another offer.
- He got screwed by the feds, anyway, so he may see very little reason to trust them again in the future, no matter how good the offer is. I think Whedon was very purposeful in having the Alliance screw Jayne.
- Jayne rightfully is probably scared of River by this point.

Also, it's important to realize that Mal always knew that Jayne is the betraying type. Mal got Jayne to betray his old crew, so he's certainly aware of the risk of betrayal. Mal was very well aware of how much Jayne disagreed with Mal's decision to keep the Tams on board. Mal was also confident enough in Jayne's betrayal to knock him out with a wrench without any proof.

Yet, Mal still trusts Jayne and even lets him stay very well armed. The fact that Jayne is the betraying type, and the fact that Jayne often vehemently disagrees with Mal (regarding the Tams, regarding giving back the cargo, regarding going through Reaver territory), and the fact that Mal knows all this and still trusts him, and that Jayne always pulls through... I think this is one of the great mysteries of the show. Mal has a tremendous power over Jayne that is never explained. This is the invisible bond that holds the crew together, and I think Jayne's relationship with the crew was one of the most brilliant plot devices.




For a couple of Ruttin' New Guys , you and LeeDavidT sure have gotten onto sumthin'...

Pleased and proud to have y'all aboard , Welcome to the boat , gentlemen...

Make yerselves to home , chow's in ten...

You know the rest...

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 12:29 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Jayne was loyal to Marco, until Mal offered better and implied Marco's rate was sub-par. That was money.

jayne considered the Alliance offer by Dobson in Pilot Serenity. That was money, wasn't enough.

Jayne betrayed the Tams on Ariel, and got a wrench from Mal - seemed to think he was doing the crew a favor. Money was just too good, and didn't want River to slash him any more (or others like Kaylee).

Jayne was happy to be rid of them at Maidenhead in BDM.

Jayne was about to send River off after picking up Inara in BDM. That was for survival of the crew, unless River was messing with Jayne's mind.

THEN, Jayne finds out about Miranda, and River is the only source of the knowledge. This can forgive a bunch of her acts and troubles.

THEN, Jayne is at the end of His Life. He is going to die (if he's lucky) at the hands of Reavers, his greatest fear. And River Saves His Bacon. That is a thing Jayne has not dealt with before, that we see. Adam has said Jayne is modeled off some like Eli Wallach, Warren Oates, etc. I don't see Jayne trading that in on anything, betraying THIS River.

I don't envision Jayne considering more betrayal of River. Simon might irk him still, but he does respect Simon standing up for his Sister and all. All the other events don't do much to convince me of Jayne's future acts, but what the Alliance did to Miranda, did to River, and River saving him from the Reavers, that puts her in a different category for Jayne.

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 3:32 AM

ZZETTA13


Excellent points everybody!!

You guys have brought up things that I’d forgotten about. Just to add some other points of interest concerning Jayne’s character.

I think Jayne is someone who is about the moment. He reacts fairly quickly and if a good deal comes along he can hardly stand not exploring the opportunity.

When he betrays the Tams on Ariel then in turn gets betrayed himself you would think that he’d get the notion that dealing with the Alliance is no better than dealing with folk like Badger. So who do you trust? I think that Mal is truly the only person post Serenity that he trusts and has a certain amount of respect for.

Jayne’s childhood I think holds the key as to why he is the way he is. I think he wants to be the big shot, but deep down he knows he can never be. Like the time he became the hero of Canton. He was enjoying that until Stitch Hessian came alone. The towns folk were ready to follow him still but to push them away he gave his, “ You think somebody’s gonna drop a box of money on ya…” speech.

In review Jayne has betrayed Mal, Stitch, the Tams, Marco and no telling how many others. The only obstacle that would keep him from turning in the Tams again is Mal. Had the show continued I think may haps he might have tried again in season 3 at some point.

I donno, It would have been fun to see whatever would have happened in later seasons.

Z

PS: Happy New Year Browncoats!!

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Thursday, January 1, 2009 4:50 AM

THEREALME


Great conversation. I always thought that Jane was just posturing in the pilot. I did not think that the money would EVER be enough to betray Mal. Somehow, Jayne saw Mal as the top dog, probably because Mal could keep them flying, and he trusted Mal, unlike anyone else Jayne knew. I really believe that Jayne wanted River off the ship for the safety of himself and others (as well as for a little cash).

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