Why Not Badger by Schism

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why Not Badger

POSTED BY: SCHISM
UPDATED: Monday, February 23, 2009 21:19
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Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:44 AM

Partially spawning from another thread where the question of whether or not he was dead came up.

Why not Badger in the movie?
Why Fanty and Mingo?
We are all familiar with Badger, so why couldn't he be involved?
Or was the actor too busy?

In "Those Left Behind", Badger tells Mal to go see Fanty and Mingo. Their names were in bold as to add emphasis, thus tying it to the movie. Later on the crew leave Badger smack-dab in the middle of absolutely nowhere, telling him to walk home.

So I have two questions.

a) Why do you think they chose to leave out badger in the movie and bring in F&M?

also

b) Leaving out any unofficial non-cannon fics, do you think Badger is alive? The Op destroyed any place they went to ground. Do we know if that included Badger's home? (Can't recall) and if it was, does that mean Badger died? Remember, he was left in the middle of butt-f*ck nowhere in 'Those Left Behind'.

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 6:57 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

Mark Sheppard has been a busy actor lately, but not so much at the time of Serenity's filming. However, I think it was more that Universal wanted to limit the number of direct references to the series, or it is possible FOX wouldn't allow more than the nine main characters to be used.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 7:01 AM

RALLEM

Those are good questions Schism. I could only answer with speculation, so here it comes. You may be right about Mark Sheppard being busy, but there may be another answer too. It is possible that Joss didn't want to move the character Badger around too much to ruin any cotinuity of the character with ties to Persephone, or maybe Joss didn't think the on television relationship between Mal and Badger was appropriate for the business he had in mind in the movie. It is my theory that there is a connection between Shepard Book and Badger somewhere in the past and that will get explored in the next movie if it ever comes out.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Saturday, February 14, 2009 11:14 AM

LEMMING

Interesting ideas.

I'd put money on Badger still being alive. It was significant that in the BDM, Badger was never mentioned as someone who had sheltered them. He's far too canny and self serving to have sheltered wanted criminals...himself possibly being one and also because it wouldn't fit his "respectable businessman, roots in the community" wannabe persona. He'll use Reynolds and crew of course, but he doesn't necessarily like them. He was very clear in the pilot that if they even *stayed* on Persephone, he'd turn them in to cover his own pi-gu.
(I covered this in an article in The Signal a while back in Season 4)

So, he would never be a target for the Operative because Mal would never and had never run to Badger for help.

And I would so love to see the lovable dodgy git turn up in any new stories from Joss. Badger and YoSaffBrig...now there's a scary idea :-) (Wouldn't be too surprised if she turned out to have been a one time Mrs Badger :-)

Nick

(The Signal: www.serenityfirefly.com)

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Monday, February 16, 2009 8:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I mentioned in the other thread that Badger had died in Those Left Behind. I was mistaken. Just skimmed TLB again, and he was not killed, just left somewhat stranded.

As for BDM, Lilac and Haven and Miranda are out on the Rim (as shown on The Map of the Verse). Beaumonde is closer to the Core, but Persephone is several systems away -more travel time. And the Border world of Lilac is less likely to be a Badger job, being so far from Persephone.
Mal does not like Badger, and only dealt with him last time under duress.
Mal doesn't seem to have a problem dealing with F&M, at least until they set him up for reaver bait.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 10:52 PM

RALLEM

Even if Badger was killed in "Those Left Behind," it doesn't mean he couldn't come back. Supposedly in Serenity Dobson was killed but he made a brief reappearance in "Those Left Behind."

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 1:08 PM

LEMMING

Well, I did kill Badger off in Badger's World on The Signal :-)

Briefly.

He was very pissed off with my character who arranged it.

Nick

(The Signal: www.serenityfirefly.com)

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Monday, February 23, 2009 12:22 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I'm not comfortable with Mal being introduced to Fanty & Mingo in TLB by Badger, and leading directly to the Lilac job.

TLB is several months before BDM, from Sheydra's deleted scenes and script in BDM, and from Mal's "few months back" in Serenity novelization..
Mal's already been to Beaumonde, bewteen OMR and Jaynestown - about October/November 2517.
F&M seem like they've known mal a little while, maybe only a few months, but seems like more, and Lilac is not their first job together.
Between TLB and BDM, Mal sells the Lassiter, and also upgrades Serenity, with more flashy lights and a new mule and such.

Why not Badger? he stiffed them, in Pilot Serenity. Then in Shindig, they told him to piss off, and he kidnapped them. Didn't you get the hint in TLB when they shot all his goons?

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Monday, February 23, 2009 2:51 AM

SCHISM

Yeah, i mean i knew they weren't friends, but F&M were hardly courteous.
Why couldn't they write it so Badger was involved, is what I'm asking, I guess.

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Monday, February 23, 2009 3:24 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Schism Wrote:

Quote:
Why not Badger in the movie?

Creatively it's more fun to write new characters. Also if you keep referencing from what had occured before you just end of with the TV show only 'jacked-up' slightly. Doesn't do much for the FILM aspect. Universal are going to be little inclined to finance a film which is basically just the TV episode and characters only with more time and money thrown in. There had to be significant 'change' from the show. As it is there are 9 charcaters who need re-establishing no sense doing that unless you really need to. It staggers the flow of the story if you have to do that.

Quote:
Why Fanty and Mingo?

As criminal bosses these two work very well. Both visually and narratively. Joss delivered a nice twist on the 'Twins' having the upper-hand when it comes to playing people on their looks. It was used to illustrate how astute Mal is and how clever he is as an individual at reading people.

Quote:
We are all familiar with Badger, so why couldn't he be involved?
Or was the actor too busy?

Because it had been done. If Badger had organized the job the whole 'bar' dynamic would have had to be different also. Remember Badger new River, so the exchange about:
"Do you know that girl?"
..."I really don't"
would have been very different. Fanty and Mingo I think are there just so that Mal can say those words: "I really don't." Which is a beautiful way to stress River's alienation from Mal and the rest of the crew and also to reaffirm how noble Mal is as a man when after all this he takes River and Simon back onto Serenity. If he really doesn't know River then why take her on board? Well that's Mal. That's what makes him so interesting and to a 'new' audience if you will, this furthers his sense of heroism, his nobility is allowed to be expressed. That whole exchange just wouldn't work with Badger.

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Monday, February 23, 2009 3:47 AM

RALLEM

Quote:
Originally posted by Schism:
Yeah, i mean i knew they weren't friends, but F&M were hardly courteous.
Why couldn't they write it so Badger was involved, is what I'm asking, I guess.

Perhaps Joss wanted this question raised so it could be answered in BDM2. Maybe there is a connection between Badger's story and Book's which can be explained in BDM 2. I am not saying Badger and Book are connected, just maybe their stories.

http://www.swyzzlestyx.com/index.html

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Monday, February 23, 2009 9:19 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN

I had thought Mal said "I really don't know" because this butt-kicking version of River was something he did not know - meaning he did not know this facet of her. Like "who are you and what did you do with the River I knew?"

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