GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Are You A Cameron / TERMINATOR Fan ?

POSTED BY: OUT2THEBLACK
UPDATED: Sunday, March 1, 2009 14:10
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Sunday, February 15, 2009 2:42 PM

WHOZIT


You may like this site.

www.summer-glau.net

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Monday, February 16, 2009 4:23 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


I tuned in and watched both Friday night.

What did you think of the new episode of TSCC?

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

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Monday, February 16, 2009 8:48 AM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL


I love TSCC, however, Sarah Connor *really* annoys me. I try really, really hard to like her, but every episode makes me like her even less.

The best part of TSCC is Cameron. They need more Cameron-centric episodes because she's by far, THE most interesting thing on the show.

And I know she's a machine and all, but she's saved them numerous times, you'd think they could afford her a speck of respect at some point.

I know that the ratings haven't been that great and I hope that Fox can hang on to it. I don't want it cancled, but I do think that they need to kick it in gear and bring some of the action/suspense of the franchise and inject it into the series.

And less whining, and more Cameron ass kicking.

Just my thoughts.


~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal

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Monday, February 16, 2009 10:09 AM

PENNAUSAMIKE


I like TSCC and Summer's part in it.
But right now the show is floundering, story-wise.
They are introducing some potential story springboards, but they haven't moved forward in a while.

I'm hoping they are saving budget with these holding pattern shows to do some big adventure episodes.

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Monday, February 16, 2009 10:28 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I like the show a lot. Summer didn't do anything this week, but hopefully she'll continue as a major character this season. This week's returning episode was a bit weak, but the Shirley Manson death & destruction scene at that warehouse was pretty cool.


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Monday, February 16, 2009 2:16 PM

STAPLES


No. I am not.

I love Summer, and she is amazing as River, and I'm sure she's just dandy as Cameron, but I watched the first half hour of the pilot episode, and said to myself, "Well Summer, I'm glad you have a new job, but I can't watch this."

It was terrible. The acting was bad, the story was bad, and Summer's first line (classic as it may be) was terrible.

I'm sorry, but I am just not a fan. Dollhouse on the other hand...

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Monday, February 16, 2009 7:11 PM

FARFLY


Yep, definitely a Cameron fan. "Allison from Palmdale" is my favorite episode so far although the "The Demon Hand" episode with the ballet scene http://tinyurl.com/aajz5e at the end is a close second. TSCC isn't perfect, but then most shows aren't. Anxiously awaiting the season 2 DVD and hope they get a third season.


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Monday, February 16, 2009 7:16 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I enjoy the Terminator franchise.
I have bought TTSCC season one on DVD and wathced. Summer is a much better Terminatrix than Kristianna Loken.
Sure, Sarah was sweet in T1. But whatever annoyance Sarah radiates now just seems to be continuation of her becoming annoying during T2. I think Lena can act well, but this is just the way they are writing Sarah.

I understand Michael Beihn was originally cast as the first Terminator. I think it was a role best suited for Ahnold. Summer may be the 2nd best-cast role among Terminators.

I am glad Summer is in a lead role of a show in it's second season. Can't take that sky from me - or her.

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 5:34 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by InstantKarmaGirl:
I love TSCC, however, Sarah Connor *really* annoys me. I try really, really hard to like her, but every episode makes me like her even less.





I am not sure sometimes why they haven't done more with Sarah. She is a great character and as pivotal as John is to the story.

They keep reiterating how she would do anything for John. I think we get that now. Time to develop her character some more. She is far more than just John's protector. She taught him a great deal about fighting, surviving, etc. Why not play up role as teacher more?




Quote:

Originally posted by InstantKarmaGirl:

The best part of TSCC is Cameron. They need more Cameron-centric episodes because she's by far, THE most interesting thing on the show.

And I know she's a machine and all, but she's saved them numerous times, you'd think they could afford her a speck of respect at some point.






I like Cameron too, and it seemed for awhile they were going to develop her a bit and it appeared to me as if she was developing some sort of interest or attachment to John other than the role of protector. That seems to kind of gotten lost in the shuffle.

I would like to see Cameron blossom more as a character since according to the movies the CPU in the Terminators are supposed to be "learning computers". Perhaps see her taking on some more human aspects would allow her to grow.





Quote:

Originally posted by InstantKarmaGirl:

I know that the ratings haven't been that great and I hope that Fox can hang on to it. I don't want it cancled, but I do think that they need to kick it in gear and bring some of the action/suspense of the franchise and inject it into the series.

And less whining, and more Cameron ass kicking.

Just my thoughts.






Yeah, the timeslot of death was not kind to TSCC this past Friday. Not sure why Fox can't seem to grasp the concept that the target demographic is not at home on Friday nights at 8pm. Even put on opposite of Chuck on Monday nights it got better ratings. I just hope Fox is not content to let the show languish and fail in this horrible slot.

I do agree the writing staff needs to kick it in high gear and get things moving. The arc they are on now seems to be a long slow moving one. They need some shorter arcs for instant pay off that don't detract from the overall arc.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Officer / Battalion O.I.C.



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html


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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 10:45 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

I understand Michael Beihn was originally cast as the first Terminator. I think it was a role best suited for Ahnold.



Not quite. Arnold was originally up for the role of Reece, and Lance Henrickson was cast as the Terminator. When they decided Arnie would be better as a robot, they found Beign, and created the cop role for Henrickson.


I've net yet seen this week's episode. I actually havn't seen the last 3 or so, because I was starting to loose interest. Got 'em all recorded, so I may catch up soon, but then again, I may just wait for the DVD now.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 17, 2009 9:50 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by jewelstaitefan:

I understand Michael Beihn was originally cast as the first Terminator. I think it was a role best suited for Ahnold.



Not quite. Arnold was originally up for the role of Reece, and Lance Henrickson was cast as the Terminator. When they decided Arnie would be better as a robot, they found Beign, and created the cop role for Henrickson.




Thanks for the clarification. They went back to Lance for Aliens.

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 2:00 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I have tuned in on different nights, just to see if maybe I caught it on a bad night and no matter when I tune in it just doesn't cut it.

Another poster mentioned their dislike for Lena Headey as Sarah Connor. I agree that, despite my being excited at first about her being cast in that role, it was met with great disappointment.
I loved her perf in "300" as the queen and thought, like probably countless others, that she would make a great Sarah Connor.

It is my belief that it's due to the weak writing. Imagine even our beloved Summer seems almost ineffective in this series. Now for me she's a good solid actress who has a great range of emotions, but, for some reason, these guys can't find a way to utilize her great talent.

SGG

Tawabawho?

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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 6:09 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
Another poster mentioned their dislike for Lena Headey as Sarah Connor. I agree that, despite my being excited at first about her being cast in that role, it was met with great disappointment.
I loved her perf in "300" as the queen and thought, like probably countless others, that she would make a great Sarah Connor.

It is my belief that it's due to the weak writing. Imagine even our beloved Summer seems almost ineffective in this series. Now for me she's a good solid actress who has a great range of emotions, but, for some reason, these guys can't find a way to utilize her great talent.





I thought Lena Heady was a perfect pick for the role of Sarah. I agree with you that the writing is the problem here, not the cast. We know that both Lena and Summer can act, but they seem constrained by poor scripts.

I hope that the writing picks up the pace or the show will be lucky to see a full second season.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Officer / Battalion O.I.C.



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html


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Wednesday, February 18, 2009 8:59 AM

SUASOR


Definitly not Joss quality scripts. I think the production company thought they had a lock because of the new movie coming out. So they did not get A-List scribes. Apparently the show will stay on until the new movie appears (in a month or so). If TSCC doesn't get a bump from the movie, it's probably toast.

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Friday, February 20, 2009 12:57 PM

STORYMARK


The season is going to end before the new movie comes out at the end of May.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:28 AM

MUGGI


I ripped the show to shreds when it first came out; somewhere on this site is a huge rant I penned about how the first 4-5 episodes were some of the worst tv show writing I had ever seen (AND IT WAS!)...

but, I kept with it because of Summer, and I think the show finally hit its stride right near the end of Season 1. It's not fantastic but its very watchable, they've developed the characters well, and it seems to have direction. I'm a fan!

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Tuesday, February 24, 2009 11:47 AM

FARFLY


I posted this link to a Josh Friedman interview regarding Terminator in another thread but in case you guys missed it:

http://www.fox.com/blogs/terminator/2009/02/22/josh-friedman-almost-sp
oiler-alert

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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 7:35 AM

SMAUG


Big fan of the first two terminator movies.

The third one (while mildly entertaining) was totally forgetable.

Love Summer G. as Cameron.. and I really wanted to love this show. While it has it's moments and an occasional decent episode (even a blind dog will hit a few bones if it digs enough holes ), it just is lacking in everything that made the first two movies the staples of science fiction that they are.

There is none of the intensity or sence of dread and urgency that made the first two movies so great. The "They will not stop... EVER.. until you are dead" intensity is just lost in this show.

I tried to hang on to see if they were going someplace with this series. The final episode of this season before the break was the last straw. The whole woman who's not a woman but now hangs out with the alien conspiracy crowd was just too much. I hung my hat on that episode and won't watch anymore.

Of course now there's dollhouse to take it's place.. Hopefully that is..

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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 5:56 PM

DASHRENDAR


Quote:

The whole woman who's not a woman but now hangs out with the alien conspiracy crowd was just too much.


Yea the last few episodes have been kinda silly, but I am hoping it will pick up. Ive got issues with the show, but on a whole I am enjoying it.

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Wednesday, February 25, 2009 6:41 PM

DREAMTROVE


Sarah Connor is the best thing on TV right now, sorry dollhouse. Heroes probably second.

I think the whole area 51 thing is stupid and pointless. They were focusing on the mission, not chasing shadows. The mission right now is John Henry. Stopping AI is impossible, they need to learn that, and adjust their strategy.

John needs to become someone who we believe capable of saving the world without superpowers. He's too much of a JC, messiah complex, please, make him real. Make him some kind of genius that helps guide AI into a less dangerous path.

Cameron is the best part of the show, and not just because she's Summer. The produced said in an interview "Yeah, I know the audience is screaming More Summer, More Summer! but..." Hey, dude, if you can actually hear what the fanbase wants and are ignoring it? That's a one way ticket to extinction. I think we need to invade the board on Fox and storm it, and scream More Summer a little louder.

This show desperately needs to realize that "Allison from Palmdale" is its soul. This is worth a whole season story arc, by itself, as a show. The possibilities for character development of this character arc are potentially awesome. I want to rant about them on the Sarah Connor Message Board on Fox, because that's where they are going to actually listen.

Oh, and I think Sarah is great. Love her. She's perfect. Sometimes the story writers make her too hard ass, or too weak, but she's definitely carrying the role. No one compares to Summer, that's unrealistic, but the show has some talent, it just has to use it, and lose the rest, lose the pointless distracting threads.

I'd love to write or be a story editor for this show. It's so close to perfection, it just needs a little tweaking. It needs a dash more creepy and 2 cups of complexity, and oh yes, a tablespoon of permanent character bloodshed.

http://terminatorwiki.fox.com/thread?t=anon

We need a plan of attack, and also, a strategy. Let's decide what direction we want the show to go in, and how to make that happen, by storming the board. I know they read these boards, they pay more attention to them than they do to ratings. I've been, tried to be, in the business, and several execs confided this in me. It's the main thing they read. But one of these threads has 11259 replies. The good news: Even the show's producers aren't going to read a thread like that. We need to make our own threads, and make them about compliments complaints and suggestions, and I think we should use a subtle tactic of debate, where we discuss direction differences, but make our discussions very visible, and then they'll see the connection. And for those not so hot on SCC, remember that its success is now linked to Dollhouse, and Dollhouse is linked to future funding for any Joss enterprise. Same for SCC and Cameron, James, so Dark Angel fans take note too. If we can do this, we might want to do it on their Dollhouse board as well.

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Saturday, February 28, 2009 3:18 PM

DREAMTROVE


This discussion should move to the other shows forum, but I just wanted to say, all Sarah Connor fans and Summer Glau fans, she's the best part of the show: go to the Fox forums and push for more summer on their general and plot speculation sections.

More Summer means more Cameron, which will make the show better. It also means good things for Summer, and would help Sarah Connor's ratings. Sarah Connor's ratings are tied to Dollhouse ratings, higher Doll House ratings are good for Alan, Amy and Eliza, and especially Joss, which even if you don't like Joss, increases the chances that someone will fund his next project.

Right now, Summer, Alan, Amy and Eliza, Josh and Joss are all in the same liferaft. If Fox's sci-fi friday survived, it keeps the sci-fi insurgency alive. It's good for everyone.

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Saturday, February 28, 2009 5:36 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you DT.

The name of the show is The Sarah Connor Chronicles, not The Cameron Phillips Chronicles. I love Summer and want her to be successful in everything she does, but part of that is playing the roles she is given to the best of her ability. Character actors in supporting roles can be just as important to the success of a show as the leads, but if a producer ever listened to fans and let the supporting players outshine the leads he would be crazy.

If you reread your post you might be able to see why I would consider it "damning the show with faint praise." You say it is the best thing on tv but you criticize it for not doing things you want it to do. You can't have it both ways.



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Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:31 PM

NE0VEN0M


This last episode was all right, certainly far better than the garbage funeral episode. That one was the first instance in the entire series when I went "No way around it; that was just BAD." I get it that it's supposed to follow Sarah, but these recent episodes are moving the main story arc way too slowly. To be honest, I'm not even sure what the dream episode added. I suppose they need a slump somewhere. I felt like things were picking up for a while with the whole Weaver corporation, but then it's stalled completely to Sarah's boring quests.

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Saturday, February 28, 2009 11:40 PM

DREAMTROVE


Teminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles

Both are in the title. The terminator is the central character, and T1 hints at this idea, T2 takes it further, and Cameron Phillips takes it home, to a new level, it becomes what the show is about, when it's any good.

The man on the run show is an old TV standby, and yawn.

Quote:

You say it is the best thing on tv but you criticize it for not doing things you want it to do. You can't have it both ways.


I listen to your comments because you have suggestions which I like, we must have similar taste, similarly, o2tb, a couple others. Some people here I like but what they choose to watch I can't stand, and so I just try it, then move on.

There's no inconsistency in this statement.

The best of television is always going to be flawed. My suggestions, like my suggestions for dollhouse, are just "what would make this interesting." My honest suggestion for dollhouse? cancel it. It's not very good, there's nothing happening. But that would be very unpopular here. If people wanted to save dollhouse, for the sake of joss or eliza, or because they like the show, then they should critically attack it, and point out it's flaws.

So, you're misinterpretting me on two levels:

1. TV is never going to be good, at best, it's entertaining. It's like if you say "the best news on television." Imho, the best news on television is Fox, or maybe MSNBC, but that doesn't mean they aren't objectively both crap. The best news off television dusts the best news on television by miles. Similarly, the best films dust television, and are in turn dusted by the best books.

2. Criticism is the highest form of praise. If I don't take something apart piece by piece to analyze the flaws, there's only one reason: I don't care enough about it to make editorial comments. If you're not making editorial comments, you're just a blind follower. I criticize Dollhouse and Joss out of respect for Joss, not because I think Dollhouse is any good. The time and effort I devoted to taking apart Sarah Connor, and even going to Fox to do so is high praise.

This isn't a mystery or a personal quirk, it's probably the most generally accepted fact in the world of fiction writing. It's the reason that there are editors and websites, and people monitoring feedback. Everyone wants to know what's wrong and what's right. I think I made it clear. Sarah Connor is a great character. By herself, she's not the story. Cameron is the story.

The show, and the franchise, as the movies, is called "Terminator." The terminator is the symbolic soldier, and abstraction of the soldier as a character. It's one of the more brilliant deconstructions to hit the screen. You could never do this story with a real soldier, people have too much respect for soldiers, and too much personal attachment to them. But a soldier is simultaneously a person and a programmed killing machine, and the conflict within. This is what Terminator is about.

If Terminator were another man on the run type story, I'd just turn it off and not give it another thought.

So, yes, the show basically is called the Cameron Phillips Chronicles, it's implicit in the very first word in the title.

Let me give you another franchise title: Alien. It's not called "Ripley." Ripley is the protagonist and she's essential to the franchise, and the stories chronicle her life, lives, or, as some people put it, replay the same story over again from different perspectives. My personal favorites are those of James Cameron and Joss Whedon, the also Ridley Scott, and I find Fincher's to be flawed by with merit, but all this goes to show exactly how little talent there is in the field that we keep talking about the same people over and over again.

But without the alien, we lose the story completely. The alien is the contrast, the extreme struggle for survival, but also the competition for humanity, that forces humanity to show its true face. The android represents humanity's total loss of feeling and emotion in pursuit of the goal, the corporation represents human greed trumping reason even to the point of our own survival, and Ripley is the chronicler of this story, our narrator.

And so it is with SCC. She's the narrator. She's not the story. Terminator is the story, and how it clashes, and how it connects, and what that tells us about humanity. For the show, there's a small amount of that which is Weaver, a small amount which is Carmotti/John Henry, and much more which is Cameron. Skynet here is simply the equiv. of the corporation. It represents blind ambition in the absence of reason.

This is storytelling at its best.

Farscape is not John Crighton. John Crighton is not really all that interesting. Entertaining, but he's just our narrator. The story is about this far out world. It's a milleu story.

Firefly is not Mal Reynolds. In fact, even though he's our narrator, the show could probably survive him being speared and replaced with Zoe, or Kaylee, even Jayne. The story here is River, because again, Blue Sun and the Alliance both play the role of the corporation, the unchecked ambition in the absence of reason. River is humanity. Reavers here the aliens, but they're not the defining quality that makes us reexamine humanity, they just give us a window into that break, and show us how close River is to that. Simon is the bridge that connects her.

But all of this is about the same thing: Viewing humanity from the outside looking in. If it's not that, then it's nothing more than another cops and robbers story, and that holds for all of them. And there are ten million of those, reinforcing society's firmly held but illogical attachment to the acceptance of the authority of the company as unchecked ambition in the absence of reason. That's not a story, it's just propaganda for the machine.

IMHO




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Sunday, March 1, 2009 4:22 AM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL


Quote:

Originally posted by dreamtrove:
And so it is with SCC. She's the narrator. She's not the story. Terminator is the story, and how it clashes, and how it connects, and what that tells us about humanity. For the show, there's a small amount of that which is Weaver, a small amount which is Carmotti/John Henry, and much more which is Cameron. Skynet here is simply the equiv. of the corporation. It represents blind ambition in the absence of reason.



I agree with this.

My problem is not that Sarah has the majority of the screen time. My problem is that her story line has very little to do with John or the Terminators...which is what it's ALWAYS been about.

Not to mention, if I have some machine programmed to help me or a Soldier from the future who came back to help me...I don't think I would keep going on these solo missions.

Sarah's main concern should be John. And right now, she's not giving me any of the tools he'll need to be a leader of a rebellion.

And the first word of the title IS Terminator...and both Terminator characters are basically caged. John Henry is like a child, given no directive to act upon and Cameron is used for eye candy and every once in a while she can beat some on up...when the writers don't have her standing off to the side staring at random people.

I don't disagree that Sarah should be the main figure, but the writers should understand that most people don't tune in to see her run around by herself, refusing to let the people she trusts help her.

I thought Friday's episode was okay...but I knew fairly quickly that the sleep clinic was the dream. Sarah would never willingly check herself into a clinic where she's vulnerable most of the time. I found the episode to be played out already.

And Sarah being capture fails to engage me emotionally, because she's being STUPID. If she hadn't just been shot in the leg (and surprisingly has no limp) and nearly died, maybe this guy getting to her would have meant something more to me. I mean, she nearly died, wouldn't that make her want back up on her next self imposed mission? Wouldn't that make John send Cameron or Reese with her?

I guess I don't care WHO has the majority of the screen time, so long as it's meaningful. I don't find the story right now to be progressing the original plot.

If they want to avoid cancellation, I think they need to speed up this arc they're in now, and get back to first season type episodes.

/Ramble.

~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal

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Sunday, March 1, 2009 5:05 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Both Dreamtrove and InstantKarmaGirl make valid points, except for one thing in my opinion.

The Terminator tag was added by the studio and network. Josh only wanted to call it The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and his intention was always to focus on Sarah. But higher ups felt the franchise name was necessary to bring in viewers. I think it has done just the opposite.

I may be wrong, but I think the majority of people who liked the movies probably think the tv show is short on action and long on character introspection. Those who either didn't like the movies or don't like SF in general aren't watching because they thought it would be all action with freedom fighters running around killing robots.

I see it as a very well balanced story of character, plot and action, with a writing crew that seems to know exactly where it is heading. The main reason the ratings are down is the move to the Friday death slot, the one that doomed Firefly. I wouldn't worry at all about the way the show has gone the past few episodes except for the fact that I don't think they'll be granted a third season. Unfortunately it is too late for them to do anything about it. The finale is already filmed and Josh has said he wrote it the way he had always intended, as a season ending, not a series ending.

To go off topic, but Dollhouse has been mentioned, I'll compare it to TSCC. If I judged it from only the first three episodes I wouldn't have given TSCC a chance, but I stuck with it and the network had patience, and it has developed into one of the best (not the best, imo) show currently on the air. The fact that it has been widely reported that FOX has meddled considerably with the way Joss wanted to present Dollhouse, I think he and the show deserve the same patience.



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Sunday, March 1, 2009 6:33 AM

DREAMTROVE


Quote:

INSTANTKARMAGIRL
My problem is not that Sarah has the majority of the screen time. My problem is that her story line has very little to do with John or the Terminators...which is what it's ALWAYS been about.



Exactomundo. It's a distraction. As characters, the arc should be paying a lot more attention to John Henry at the moment, and John should probably have some direct contact with Ellison, who has contact with John Henry, so he can try to chance the path of AI. He can't stop the raging river, only alter its course.

It would also be an interesting intertwisted plotline if Cameron is trying to change who John is, John is trying to change who Ellison is, so that Ellison can change who John Henry is, to alter the future.


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Not to mention, if I have some machine programmed to help me or a Soldier from the future who came back to help me...I don't think I would keep going on these solo missions.



lol. does seem a bit suicidal. That was one of my ten points I posted to fox.

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Sarah's main concern should be John. And right now, she's not giving me any of the tools he'll need to be a leader of a rebellion.


Yes, this is another major issue. The show has a messiah complex about John Connor. He needs to demonstrate something unique that makes him essential to the resistance. He's not simply going to be Jesus just by being alive. In fact, looking at the future, I'd say he's doing a pretty poor job of it. Changing the course to avoid the event should be his main objective.

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And the first word of the title IS Terminator...and both Terminator characters are basically caged. John Henry is like a child, given no directive to act upon and Cameron is used for eye candy and every once in a while she can beat some on up...when the writers don't have her standing off to the side staring at random people.


Agreed, but you left out Catherine Weaver. She's a terminator too (2?) Her agenda we assume to be unmitigated evil, but we don't really know. After all, Arnie was evil in T1, and good in T2, when T1000 was evil, we can't make assumptions about a new T1000. She might have any agenda.

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I don't disagree that Sarah should be the main figure, but the writers should understand that most people don't tune in to see her run around by herself, refusing to let the people she trusts help her.


She is the narrator. Like John Creighton, Mal Reynolds, they are telling us the story, but it doesn't mean that the story is about them. Dr. Watson tells us a story about Sherlock Holmes.

I think she's a strong part of the story, to date she has done an admirable job, and I think acting needs to be taken into account. I think it's about time that John Connor be given some really challenging storylines where he loses his mind or something, just to see if he can act. He definitely needs some character dev, and the relationship with riley def. wasn't doing it.

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I thought Friday's episode was okay...but I knew fairly quickly that the sleep clinic was the dream. Sarah would never willingly check herself into a clinic where she's vulnerable most of the time. I found the episode to be played out already.



That bugged me, as did the roommate, and the fact that she didn't take logical precautions, like use cameron, instead, the cute pancake scene depicts her fear of cameron's influence over John.

Another thing just bothered me. In a past ep, she used a remembering a keypad punch, IIRC, why didn't she do it again, also, why not take cameron to break in?

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And Sarah being capture fails to engage me emotionally, because she's being STUPID. If she hadn't just been shot in the leg (and surprisingly has no limp) and nearly died, maybe this guy getting to her would have meant something more to me. I mean, she nearly died, wouldn't that make her want back up on her next self imposed mission? Wouldn't that make John send Cameron or Reese with her?


The series, I'll confess, is perpetually weak on this level. Most TV shows are, I kind of try to look past it until the major issues are dealt with. Solo mission thing is an obvious stupid mistake. The show does make chronic little errors. I could make a whole blog of them. All of the shows we talk about here do. Some people say it's because of the tight schedule, but I don't buy it, it's a lack of market pressure. If the people tolerate it, just like they tolerate huge errors in other fiction, then it persists.

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I guess I don't care WHO has the majority of the screen time, so long as it's meaningful. I don't find the story right now to be progressing the original plot.


I care because 1. Some people can act, and 2. some characters are interesting. A Riley centered show or a Jessie centered show is not going to grab me because they have been weak links. Sure, maybe they should give some of these characters episodes, John needs some, with real challenge, because he's essential to the story. At the moment, he's basically eye candy.

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If they want to avoid cancellation, I think they need to speed up this arc they're in now, and get back to first season type episodes.



I'd like them to slow down actually. I think that Allison from Palmdale was interesting, John and Cameron in school was interesting. They said they did't want it to be a robot of the week show. How about not making it a run from random badguy of the week show? Buffy did wonders with high school. I think that I'd like to see more of that, re-enroll them. They could do this with any simple contrivance, such as "this is really the last place they would be looking for us now."

Another thing. They could use Cameron to learn more about this whole target identification model, and how to fool it. I mean, this JC guy is some sort of genius messiah right? It hasn't occurred to him to learn a little bit about his enemy? It seems to be some sort of face patter matching. Maybe it's a retinal scan, and some clever contacts could throw it off.

/Ramble.

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ECGORDON
The Terminator tag was added by the studio and network. Josh only wanted to call it The Sarah Connor Chronicles, and his intention was always to focus on Sarah. But higher ups felt the franchise name was necessary to bring in viewers. I think it has done just the opposite.



Interesting, but not that relevent, it's still the name of the franchise, and the focus of the story. The eternal soldier, half conscientious human, half programmed killing machine: that's the story, imho, the interesting story. "Sarah Connor runs away from stuff" is not an interesting story, it's like (the pretender was it?) and so many others. I know James Gunn was furious that the Immortal became "Ben Richards runs away from stuff" and gave up on the series to be.

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I may be wrong, but I think the majority of people who liked the movies probably think the tv show is short on action and long on character introspection. Those who either didn't like the movies or don't like SF in general aren't watching because they thought it would be all action with freedom fighters running around killing robots.



Maybe they should rewatch the movies, particularly the first one :)

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I see it as a very well balanced story of character, plot and action, with a writing crew that seems to know exactly where it is heading. The main reason the ratings are down is the move to the Friday



Agreed.

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death slot,


I'm less sure of this.

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the one that doomed Firefly.


lots of shows have survived friday. Farscape, Lexx, SG1 were all friday shows, Star trek was saturday if I recall and X-files sunday.

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I wouldn't worry at all about the way the show has gone the past few episodes except for the fact that I don't think they'll be granted a third season. Unfortunately it is too late for them to do anything about it. The finale is already filmed and Josh has said he wrote it the way he had always intended, as a season ending, not a series ending.


Good point. OTOH, if there is another season, it becomes the time to think of such things. writing TV episode now pays better than writing books, even up to the "category bestsellers" for major publishers.

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To go off topic, but Dollhouse has been mentioned, I'll compare it to TSCC. If I judged it from only the first three episodes I wouldn't have given TSCC a chance, but I stuck with it and the network had patience, and it has developed into one of the best (not the best, imo) show currently on the air. The fact that it has been widely reported that FOX has meddled considerably with the way Joss wanted to present Dollhouse, I think he and the show deserve the same patience.



I had a different reaction. I never give anything a second chance because I don't really like television. I give everything a first chance. Sarah caught me on one ep. I don't remember which one. Heroes also did, though I think it has issues, it's intersting. I'm giving Dollhouse 6 ep because it's Joss. I expect it to be cancelled after that. I'd have to be pretty bored to give Burn Notice another chance, in the hospital to give Fringe another shot, and I might watch another Chuck, I'm on the fence about it.

For me: A show gets a lot of slack for being funny. Loses lots of ground for stock elements like relationship scenes of characters who aren't really defined (Boy and Girl, rather than characters I know well. Relationship between Xander and Cordelia is interesting, or Anya, relationship between Buffy and 'guy we've never met' is not.)

A show loses miles for me if it replays very tired fearmongering storylines that are the mainstay of television. I think these are part of the problem. Dollhouse is spitting it out in spades. I'm very disappointed in Joss.

A show gains a lot of points for new ideas, political, philosophical, out of the mainstream, even if I disagree with them, and gains a lot of points for action, and deep character development.

Another issue with dollhouse. It's hard to develop a character who gets erased every ep.

And finally, a show loses ground for each character it has that I can't put a name to or tell you what they do. Dollhouse has an awful lot of these. I call them background bodies. They're different from extras, like star trek has (interesting error note, I haven't seen the entire series, but I heard that more characters die on board the Voyager than are on the crew manifest at the beginning of the show, maquis and passengers included.)

So, I watch it for Joss through ep 6, not expecting there to be an ep 7. Not happy about this, because I'd like dollhouse to evolve into something better, and it's tied to TSSC, which I actually enjoy. Just being realistic. Just between us and the billion people on the internet, Joss looks from the outside like he's coming down with lucas syndrome (believing you are the reason for your success, rather than your team.)

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Sunday, March 1, 2009 7:58 AM

INSTANTKARMAGIRL


Yes, I forgot about Weaver, who is one of my favorite characters on the show. I don't know what her agenda is, but I think she's one of the things the writers have right. I don't WANT to know her agenda yet. I find her interactions with her "daughter" to be wonderfully played.

And I agree that Allison from Palmdale was one of the better episodes. I guess what I meant by speeding up the arc was more of...move away from the "things hiding in the desert and Sarah doing things she shouldn't" and move towards character motivation.

Because, fine, Sarah's the lead, but if she fails to engage me emotionally and I cannot understand her actions, why would I watch? (FYI, I watch because despite my critique of the show, I think it's worthwhile and it's better than most of the crud that's on TV)

If Sarah is someone who goes on solo missions, SHOW ME WHY! She should be at home with John, protecting him and teaching him. In T2, she didn't shelter John from the storm, she showed it to him and forced him to deal with things...because she knows who he is in the future.

All I ask is that her motivations be known. I understand Cameron...she's got a directive. I understand John, he's a reluctant hero that just wants to be a teenager. I understand Ellison, who just wants the truth. I understand Derek, who is simply a soldier.

I couldn't care less about Riley or Jesse (although I had high hopes for Riley). I find them bored and distracting, not in a good way.

I know that "everything she (Sarah) does is for John" and that's fine...but it doesn't really come off that way. She doesn't seem to care enough to convince John of why she's doing things.

So, okay, this is what I'd love to see from the show:
1. More Terminators.
2. More John becoming a Man.
3. The end of the Jesse/Riley saga.
4. More character introspection that reveals motive.
5. Cameron doing what she's supposed to be made to do, which is adapt.
6. Sarah coming back to her original goal of keeping John alive and bringing down Skynet (with her "genius" son's help).

yeah, that might be it.

And I know every show has errors and that's cool, but when the errors are in EVERY episode and no one learns from it...it becomes hard to over look.

~**~
"How come you're flying about with us brigands? I mean, shouldn't you be off bringing religiosity to the Fuzzie-Wuzzies or some such?"~Cap'n Mal

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Sunday, March 1, 2009 2:10 PM

DREAMTROVE


Agreed 100%. Post it to fox.

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