GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Star Wars DVD boycott

POSTED BY: TALLGUY
UPDATED: Saturday, February 14, 2004 17:49
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4631
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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 3:50 PM

TALLGUY


I debated posting this as a seperate thread or not...

Here's how it is...

"Of course, the big question mark amongst fans has always been whether Lucas would allow the original, unaltered original editions of the trilogy to also be released on DVD. Not possible, said (Jim) Ward (Marketing VP, Lucasfilm), who confirmed that the upcoming set will feature only the 1997 Special Edition versions of each film.

So what are the faithful to do if they don't want to watch the altered 1997 editions of the trilogy? Either give in, or don't buy. "We realize there's a lot of debate out there," says Ward. "But this is not a democracy. We love our fans, but this is about art and filmmaking. [George] has decided that the sole version he wants available is this one."" ( www.dvdfile.com)

I'm taking the "don't buy" route. I bet (I hope) if we can actually hit Fox (oh, the irony) and Lucas' bottom line they might reconsider that "democracy" line. Imagine rows of Star Wars Special Edition DVDs collecting dust at Best Buy come Christmas?

We're Firefly fans! We've done the impossible (trying to anyway) and that makes us mighty! We've waited this long for Star Wars. Why not wait until they give us the real ones?

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:02 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


What is 'Star Wars' ? I don't think I've heard of this before. Is it some sort of science fiction feature? Hmmmmm.



" Pain is scary "

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:10 PM

STATIC


I have to be honest. . .and some folks are going to want to shoot me at this point. . .

But Firefly has RUINED me for almost all other Science Fiction because as MUCH as I love Star Trek, Star Wars, Bab5, SG1, and ALL the others. . .

I can wrap my head around Firefly alot better. It just seems more real to me.

I don't give a good gorram about Star Wars or anything else. Just gimme back my gorram Firefly. . .FIRST on the Big screen to apologise for cancelling the series, and THEN the new series because it never should have been cancelled in the FIRST place.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:37 PM

KAYLEESBOY


Yeah at this point I could care less what Star Wars does. Firefly spoiled all other Sci-Fi for me....well except maybe for B-5.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 4:41 PM

SHINY


A received an ... ahem, "unofficial" set of DVDs with the original versions of the trilogy (from laserdisk originally, I believe) for Christmas...but I haven't had a chance to watch them yet because I've been re-watching my Firefly DVDs so much...

RIVER
Purple elephants are flying.
MAL
Good. Thanks for the update.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:09 PM

PALADIN


Quote:

Originally posted by TallGuy:

So what are the faithful to do if they don't want to watch the altered 1997 editions of the trilogy? Either give in, or don't buy. "We realize there's a lot of debate out there," says Ward. "But this is not a democracy...[George] has decided that the sole version he wants available is this one."" ( www.dvdfile.com)
actually hit Fox (oh, the irony) and Lucas' bottom line they might reconsider that "democracy" line. Imagine rows of Star Wars Special Edition DVDs collecting dust at Best Buy come Christmas?

We're Firefly fans! We've done the impossible (trying to anyway) and that makes us mighty! We've waited this long for Star Wars. Why not wait until they give us the real ones?



I say heck yeah!! I know that they are Lucas' movies and ideas, but the moment he put them to film and gave rights to write on and create new portions of the SW Galaxy, he gave it all to the fans. Now he wants to tell us that there was no original trilogy? Can we really let new generations grow up believing that Greedo shot first, or that the Max Rebo Band has more than 3 members?
I have VHS copies of the original series (and yes they are a little worn from use, and the only reason I normally watch the Special Edition instead of the originals is because I'm trying to make sure the originals last.
Just keep on flyin' Make your own DVD copies of the original trilogy if necessaary. Just because we're on the losing side (so to speak) doesn't make us wrong.

-------------------
George can't take the sky from us.

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 5:22 PM

HERO


Gee...I kinda liked the Special Edition. I have the trilogy on VHS. I'm not defending Episode 1 and 2, just saying I like the enhanced effects and cut scenes in the originals.

As for Eps 1 and 2, yeah they were not as good as the originals. But I thought they were good movies. I decided to judge them only for what they were rather then in contrast to the Star Wars community's impossible expectations.

Although I would have cast a different teenage Anakin. And the Jar Jar character should have been toned down. And I can't really understand why nobody uses orbital bombardment (in Ep 5 they explain that there is a shield, but there's no real planetary defenses in Ep 1 or 2). And I can't help thinking that Palpatine is like the Clintons. He starts out as Bill Clinton, being all things to all people (1992-2000), but at some point in Ep 3 (2000) he reveals his evil self and rules as Emperor (Hillary) (2008). And there arent enough Fetts for my taste. We need more Fetts (although technically all those clones are Fetts, but thats not what I mean). And, and, and, and...

H

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Wednesday, February 11, 2004 11:54 PM

DAVEB


Why are we talking about Star Wars, the orignals are good but compared to Firefly its nothing. Episode III? Nah Firefly will rule 2005.

"Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle."

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 7:59 AM

CAPTAINCDC


Quote:

Originally posted by TallGuy:
I debated posting this as a seperate thread or not...

Here's how it is...

"Of course, the big question mark amongst fans has always been whether Lucas would allow the original, unaltered original editions of the trilogy to also be released on DVD. Not possible, said (Jim) Ward (Marketing VP, Lucasfilm), who confirmed that the upcoming set will feature only the 1997 Special Edition versions of each film.

So what are the faithful to do if they don't want to watch the altered 1997 editions of the trilogy? Either give in, or don't buy. "We realize there's a lot of debate out there," says Ward. "But this is not a democracy. We love our fans, but this is about art and filmmaking. [George] has decided that the sole version he wants available is this one."" ( www.dvdfile.com)

I'm taking the "don't buy" route. I bet (I hope) if we can actually hit Fox (oh, the irony) and Lucas' bottom line they might reconsider that "democracy" line. Imagine rows of Star Wars Special Edition DVDs collecting dust at Best Buy come Christmas?

We're Firefly fans! We've done the impossible (trying to anyway) and that makes us mighty! We've waited this long for Star Wars. Why not wait until they give us the real ones?

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."




Right there with you. I will never buy the special editions on dvd! And I'm going to encourage every one I know to hold out as well. The arrogance of Lucas to say that he respects his fans wishes but that it is not a democracy and he will do what he wants. They are his movies, he can do what he wants with them, but he should not tell us that he respects us but does not give a damn what we want. I would love it if the box set failed miserably, but I know it is going to sell like hotcakes. Oh well, he won't get my money (and I'm sure that will keep him awake at night), but that is all I can do.

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:35 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Never cared for the "enhanced" versions of the original Star Wars movies. Caught them at a friend's house on VHS and can say I was not impressed.

Keep in mind I am one of those people that thinks classics should not be fooled with in any way except to perserve them. Don't colorize them and don't doctor them up w/ additional special effects 20 years later.

If the DVDs are not the originals, I will pass and just hang onto my VHS original trilogy.

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."


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Thursday, February 12, 2004 8:35 AM

SPOOKYJESUS


Two words -

Screw Lucus

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 10:34 AM

KNIBBLET


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
And I can't help thinking that Palpatine is like the Clintons. He starts out as Bill Clinton, being all things to all people (1992-2000), but at some point in Ep 3 (2000) he reveals his evil self and rules as Emperor (Hillary) (2008).H



My new mantra is anyone but the lying murderer we have in the White House now. If your argument is that Bush didn't lie, then I'll settle for incompetent, easily led, murderer.

http://www.thnt.com/thnt/story/0,21282,901315,00.html
Shaken father writes to president
Published in the Home News Tribune 2/05/04

Dear President Bush,

With heavy heart, tears in my eyes and a home full of sorrow, I pick up my pen to write you about a brave soldier, 2nd Lt. Seth J. Dvorin, U.S. Army. My son was killed in Iraq on Feb. 3, 2004 fighting in a war.

Seth was a good boy, well-mannered, smart, kind and understanding.

He joined the Army in an effort to serve his country. And serve his country he did. Seth made the ultimate sacrifice.

Burying a child will no doubt be the hardest task that his mother and I shall ever have to do. The one question I have, and the one question I would like you to answer, is, "Why did my son and every other soldier that was killed, maimed and wounded have to suffer settling your vendetta?"

My son is gone just when he was laying a strong foundation to build upon for the rest of his life.

Now, President Bush, his life has been snuffed out in a meaningless war.

Where are all the weapons of mass destruction, where are the stock piles of chemical and biological weapons?

Please President, pray for all our fallen heroes and as a tribute to these heroes get our boys and girls out of Iraq now, before too much more blood is shed.

Since you waged this unnecessary war on Saddam Hussein the world has become a horrible place to live in.

I know my boy is safe now, in a new world free of hate and prejudices where GOD is his president, but you tell me President Bush why he had to go so soon and in such a violent way.

Respectfully yours, Richard M. Dvorin




"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:28 PM

THEDUKE333


Whelp.. Hero it looks like it is just me and you.

I am about to get flamed for the first time by a fellow Browncoats.

I personally am very excited about the DVD's coming out. I dont own a VCR anymore. I have invested alot of money into the dream entertainment system I have now, and I am looking forward to enjoying the trilogy all over again. I did purchase the 1997 version on VHS and the changes didnt bother me. I do understand people who love the original and would prefer it not being messed with. I guess the best thing to do is to release both versions. I liked the extended cave scene on Hoth. I thougt it looked pretty cool. Plus from the commentary i saw on the quality improvements, i dont have a problem with them making the same scene look better. As for EP 1 and 2, well I do like being in this universe again. If he made 20 more Star Wars movie, i would go see them all. Do I wish he did some things differently? sure....Do I wish the Gorram idiots at Fox didnt cancel Firefly? Sure...but what can you do? If Lucas gave me an opportunity to sit down with him and ask me what he should do differently with EP 3, I would tell him to tone down the CGI....Everybody knows how it's done, and can spot it from a mile away. It takes away from the realism???

Anyway, very excited about the good news being leaked to us about Firefly, and yes i am excited about Episode 3 and the September DVD's...


Go gently with me...after all I am still a fellow browncoat.





TheDuke333

Keep flying

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 12:47 PM

SNIPER


I'm going with the special editions. It really doesn't bother me that much.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:18 PM

KURUKAMI


Bah. Lucas has interesting ideas that work best when he gives them to someone else and gets out of the way, as evidenced by the fact that Episode I and II both blew chunks by comparison with the original three. His vision in the original Star Wars was solid, but he wisely gave the directing to Irvin Kershner and the writing to Leigh Brackett and Lawrence Kasdan for Empire, and followed a similar path for Jedi.

The "Special" Editions have been tarted up with "new and improved" special effects which sand over a few rough spots, but mostly ignore the blatantly obvious and less impressive FX problems. Examples include the noticeable matte lines on the pit beastie in Return of the Jedi, and the TIE fighters popping up literally out of nowhere in the big space battle at the climax of the same movie.

That's completely beside the fact that, well, GREEDO NEVER SHOT FIRST!!! And the cheesy new snow monster in Empire (the imagination draws so much more of a frightening picture than Lucas's new, lame-assed beastie). And *shudder* the new band/music in Jedi. Not to mention the bizarre "every planet instantly knows about the death of the Emperor" ending that got glued on to Jedi's end.

I'll have no qualms at all about not purchasing Lucas's jury-rigged remake.

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:39 PM

ECMORGAN69


Quote:

Originally posted by TallGuy:
I debated posting this as a seperate thread or not...

Here's how it is...

"Of course, the big question mark amongst fans has always been whether Lucas would allow the original, unaltered original editions of the trilogy to also be released on DVD. Not possible, said (Jim) Ward (Marketing VP, Lucasfilm), who confirmed that the upcoming set will feature only the 1997 Special Edition versions of each film.

So what are the faithful to do if they don't want to watch the altered 1997 editions of the trilogy? Either give in, or don't buy. "We realize there's a lot of debate out there," says Ward. "But this is not a democracy. We love our fans, but this is about art and filmmaking. [George] has decided that the sole version he wants available is this one."" ( www.dvdfile.com)

I'm taking the "don't buy" route. I bet (I hope) if we can actually hit Fox (oh, the irony) and Lucas' bottom line they might reconsider that "democracy" line. Imagine rows of Star Wars Special Edition DVDs collecting dust at Best Buy come Christmas?

We're Firefly fans! We've done the impossible (trying to anyway) and that makes us mighty! We've waited this long for Star Wars. Why not wait until they give us the real ones?

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."



I'm probably inviting a flame-war from some who don't appreciate change. I've seen all the Star Wars movies in the movies, and that includes the original releases in 1977, 1980, & 1983 of Episodes #4 - #6. In all honesty, I much, much prefer the new late-90s versions of Episodes #4 - #6. Lucas improved the special effects dramatically (of course), inserted scenes that were originally cut that enhanced the storyline, and just generally improved the movies. If I had one beef with the changed movies, it's how Lucas turned PC and changed the whole Greedo-Han Solo shoot-out , so that it looked like Greedo fired first. Too bad that's not how it went the first time around

So, in conclusion, I'm glad that the newer versions are the ones on DVD. I have the original version on VHS, and I just can't stand watching it anymore.

Not that it matters since Firefly kicks it's ass anyway

"You can't take the sky from me..."

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 1:50 PM

ECMORGAN69


Quote:

Originally posted by Knibblet:
My new mantra is anyone but the lying murderer we have in the White House now. If your argument is that Bush didn't lie, then I'll settle for incompetent, easily led, murderer.



First off, this is like way off topic, folks.

Second, I much prefer Bush in the White House to the lying, thieving bunch of miscreants that sullied it for the eight years before. Clinton and his criminal gang.

Don't let that letter fool you. Plenty of soldiers lost their lives before Bush took office. It's just that anything Bill did was okey-dokey by the media. And if you think that Clinton didn't get anyone killed, let's ask the families of 19 Delta Force and Rangers killed in Mogadishu in 1993 ("Black Hawk Down" was an incredible movie.) That was just one example of a feckless, ineffective, half-baked foreign policy that was allowed to continue for eight years in places like Rwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo, the Middle East, etc., etc. The only differrence is that the liberal media sucked up to Bubba the whole time and bashes Bush when the wind changes direction.

So, in conclusion, I still prefer the newer versions of Episodes #4-#6.


"You can't take the sky from me..."

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:37 PM

GHOLA


^Can we please keep politics out of this discussion folks?

But as for the Star Wars trilogy I honestly don't think the changes in the special editions are enough to warrant the complaining that goes on about them even though I do wish Lucas would release both versions so that the fans could decide which they prefer. I'll probably get the trilogy on DVD but not for a while as my VHS copies are in good enough condition.

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Thursday, February 12, 2004 3:46 PM

ECMORGAN69


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghola:
^Can we please keep politics out of this discussion folks?



Here, here. While, admittedly I'm a big mouth who definitely contributes in such arguments, I still agree.

...And I still want the redone trilogy


"You can't take the sky from me..."

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Friday, February 13, 2004 5:43 AM

VENA


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
I don't give a good gorram about Star Wars or anything else. Just gimme back my gorram Firefly. . .FIRST on the Big screen to apologise for cancelling the series, and THEN the new series because it never should have been cancelled in the FIRST place.



Can I get a Hell Yeah!

The man sold out. He was a whore to the all mighty $.

The sooner we accept this fact the sooner we can move on.

I say let's be mighty and not buy till we get the REAL movies, not the product of this cash crazed mind.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Any Body But Bush.

http://stripe.filetap.com/

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Friday, February 13, 2004 8:14 AM

KINGOFKOINS


Bah, Lucas went mad with power. Screw him and all his new Star Wars flicks. As for Bush, I wouldn't mind if he got kidnapped by ninjas.

--------------------------------
It's sickening how comforting the privacy of the mind can be.
"Bible's broken; contradictions, false logistics. Doesn't make sense." - River
http://stripe.filetap.com

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Friday, February 13, 2004 8:28 AM

KURUKAMI


Quote:

Originally posted by ecmorgan69:
...And I still want the redone trilogy


Bleeaaaah... revisionist Star Wars junk. Mind you, the first one wasn't that bad... and in fact was a considerable improvement. But every single one of the remakes has at least one major change which made me shudder and go "WTF" at the screen.

To hell with Lucas and his all style no substance new stuff. (Namely Episodes I, II, and (presumably) III.)

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.

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Friday, February 13, 2004 9:08 AM

TRAGICSTORY


Quote:

Originally posted by TallGuy:
I debated posting this as a seperate thread or not...

Here's how it is...

"Of course, the big question mark amongst fans has always been whether Lucas would allow the original, unaltered original editions of the trilogy to also be released on DVD. Not possible, said (Jim) Ward (Marketing VP, Lucasfilm), who confirmed that the upcoming set will feature only the 1997 Special Edition versions of each film.

So what are the faithful to do if they don't want to watch the altered 1997 editions of the trilogy? Either give in, or don't buy. "We realize there's a lot of debate out there," says Ward. "But this is not a democracy. We love our fans, but this is about art and filmmaking. [George] has decided that the sole version he wants available is this one."" ( www.dvdfile.com)

I'm taking the "don't buy" route. I bet (I hope) if we can actually hit Fox (oh, the irony) and Lucas' bottom line they might reconsider that "democracy" line. Imagine rows of Star Wars Special Edition DVDs collecting dust at Best Buy come Christmas?

We're Firefly fans! We've done the impossible (trying to anyway) and that makes us mighty! We've waited this long for Star Wars. Why not wait until they give us the real ones?

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."





Wait you mean the official version of Star Wars is that Grecko shoots Han first at point blank and MISSES? WHY GOD? WHYYYYYY?

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Friday, February 13, 2004 10:10 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Knibblet:
My new mantra is anyone but the lying murderer we have in the White House now. If your argument is that Bush didn't lie, then I'll settle for incompetent, easily led, murderer.



Put simply. Somebody tries to kill us, we got a right to try and kill em right back.

Now you see a guy beating up on his little neighbor, maybe you step in and break it up. Later that guy keeps givin you the eye, you know what I mean. Talkin behind your back. Trying to run you outa town. Then some of his buddies take a cheap shot while your back is turned. Maybe you send those buddies runnin. But you see this guy and he might be holdin a gun, gettin ready to backshoot you. Ya got a right to shoot first. Ok, later you find out he didn't have no gun. Sure you feel bad, but as your going through his pockets you find proof that he's killed hundreds of thousands and tortured and maimed countless others. Maybe now you don't feel so bad.

I feel bad that we didn't find any weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. But every body pulled from a mass grave makes me feel a bit better.

Listening to some of these anti-Bush people makes you wonder if they'd have had the balls...er...moral courage to stand up to Hitler (after all, the Germans never attacked us, and we didn't find out about the Holocaust till long after the war started).

Oh, and buy the Star Wars DVDs or not, who really cares...I got mine.

H

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Friday, February 13, 2004 12:35 PM

KNIBBLET


Hero wrote:
Listening to some of these anti-Bush people makes you wonder if they'd have had the balls...er...moral courage to stand up to Hitler (after all, the Germans never attacked us, and we didn't find out about the Holocaust till long after the war started).


You should read a little more, Hero. Our government ignored the Holocaust. If you wish to follow the logic of 'get rid of evil' then we didn't do our duty to 6 million murder victims.

Read a little about the passenger ship St. Louis and how our government returned the nearly 1000 Jewish refugees into the hands of the nazis. This was 1939.

It all comes back to the basic truths, Hero. You can twist it and justify it and distort it but here is what happened.

Our President justified this war by citing an "immediate threat of Saddam using WMD". We went to war.

There is no WMD. There was no threat.

Our laws forbid us from attempting to remove a foreign head of state. This is now how we justify the war - we 'removed an evil man'.

A anti-social loner breaks into your house to kill you, while waltzing through the livingroom, he spots a cigarette burning on a cushion. He puts out the smoldering fire and uses the cushion to suffocate you. I'm guessing the authorities should congratulate him for averting a house fire?

Bush lied or he was jerked around like a puppet on a string. Your choice, Hero.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."

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Friday, February 13, 2004 1:41 PM

JASONZZZ



I could careless about the differences, there were maybe 90seconds of film added or changed total that did not add up to change the story line itself. What it did do was allow the man to make his movie the way he had wanted to - without his earlier budget and tech restraint. For gods sake, the man sold out to whom? He had his own artistic vision enough to form his own tech company, sound company, studio, effects company. He had the balls and guts to punch this movie out onto celluloid on his own dime. I am getting mine on DVD - been waiting for it. Don't very much care if you are getting yours or not.


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Gee...I kinda liked the Special Edition. I have the trilogy on VHS. I'm not defending Episode 1 and 2, just saying I like the enhanced effects and cut scenes in the originals.

.....

H



Like Fireflyfans.net?
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http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=5&t=3283

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Friday, February 13, 2004 1:53 PM

JASONZZZ


For crying out loud... How the heck did a bunch
of bitching about Lucas's DVD release turned into long lengthy dissertations on how we feel about DSII and anti-Bush rant thang. Alrighty then, let's get it on.

Look, I am not much of a Bush lover (and I certainly am not comparing him to Pres. Roosevelt). But Listen up:

For most of the beginning Nazi's aggression, our country stood by and let it happen. "Oh, it's over there", "The guy (hitler) just need a little room", "Oh, he just wanted a little bit of Poland", "Oh, he just want a bit of the Rhine.", "Oh, technically it belongs to them...", "He's over there, he will never get here." on and on. Roosevelt (well, ok, he didn't do it alone, but I meant his leadership) found whatever excuses he could to get the Europeans aid, money, guns, whatever, short of sending troops. He was willing to help someone else fight "their" war, to make sure that crappy, nasty people don't run a chance of slaughtering anymore more people.

For crying out loud, we are helping people from getting murdered by this guy. We can't see over our blinders long enough to think that these folks need help. Saddam (and I too like to pronounce it in a way which means "goat herder") tortures people, gassed his neighbors, and for fun, he takes his soldiers to beat up his own soldiers. His sons tortured and maimed their atheletes b/c they didn't perform well (ahhh, the motivation that must've been)... I am glad that somebody in our guv'ment took the leadership to say that those guys needed help. If they had to make up some excuses to go do it, I say "Alright, don't expect me to believe that or the lullabies, just go there and kick some ass".

Back to your normal programming on bitching and moaning about Luca's DVD set.


Quote:

Originally posted by Knibblet:
Hero wrote:
Listening to some of these anti-Bush people makes you wonder if they'd have had the balls...er...moral courage to stand up to Hitler (after all, the Germans never attacked us, and we didn't find out about the Holocaust till long after the war started).


You should read a little more, Hero. Our government ignored the Holocaust. If you wish to follow the logic of 'get rid of evil' then we didn't do our duty to 6 million murder victims.

Read a little about the passenger ship St. Louis and how our government returned the nearly 1000 Jewish refugees into the hands of the nazis. This was 1939.

It all comes back to the basic truths, Hero. You can twist it and justify it and distort it but here is what happened.

Our President justified this war by citing an "immediate threat of Saddam using WMD". We went to war.

There is no WMD. There was no threat.

Our laws forbid us from attempting to remove a foreign head of state. This is now how we justify the war - we 'removed an evil man'.

A anti-social loner breaks into your house to kill you, while waltzing through the livingroom, he spots a cigarette burning on a cushion. He puts out the smoldering fire and uses the cushion to suffocate you. I'm guessing the authorities should congratulate him for averting a house fire?

Bush lied or he was jerked around like a puppet on a string. Your choice, Hero.

"Just keep walkin, preacher man."



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Friday, February 13, 2004 4:51 PM

SADLITTLEKING


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
I don't give a good gorram about Star Wars or anything else. Just gimme back my gorram Firefly. . .FIRST on the Big screen to apologise for cancelling the series, and THEN the new series because it never should have been cancelled in the FIRST place.



I second that.

By the way, Bush is a lying, corporate-hugging jerk who wraps his true nature in a false morality and patriotism.

And I find it truly obscene that so many men would fault Clinton for lying about adultry when most married men are guilty of the same crimes (commiting adultry and lying about it). And some women, too. Hypocrisy at its finest.

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Friday, February 13, 2004 5:10 PM

ECMORGAN69


Quote:

Originally posted by Kurukami:
Bleeaaaah... revisionist Star Wars junk. Mind you, the first one wasn't that bad... and in fact was a considerable improvement. But every single one of the remakes has at least one major change which made me shudder and go "WTF" at the screen.

To hell with Lucas and his all style no substance new stuff. (Namely Episodes I, II, and (presumably) III.)

History doesn't always repeat itself. Sometimes it merely shouts "Weren't you listening the first time?!?" and lets fly with a club.



Made you shudder and go "WTF"? Like what? With the exception of swapping out old antiquated special effects for state-of-the-art special effects, what was done to these movies? Oh yeah, Lucas put the deleted scenes back in, too. I can see how removing a few continuity problems can be annoying to the SW fans who resist change. It's like arguing the pluses and minuses of the new BSG miniseries with the die-hard fanatics - oops, I mean fans...

"You can't take the sky from me..."

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Friday, February 13, 2004 5:29 PM

SUCCATASH



I don't care much about changing the Max band scene, I'm extremely annoyed about the "Han shot first" change.

It really alters Han Solo's character by softening the Greedo scene. Not to mention it looks like shit the way Han just digitally moves sideways when Greedo shoots at him first.

It's so sick and wrong to change that. Lucas mainly claims the Special Edition is due to better technology but he is really wrong to mess with Han Solo's character.


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Friday, February 13, 2004 9:59 PM

LTNOWIS


Ok, I know my nonstop defense of Star Wars is probably getting annoying, but here I go anyways.

Quote:


Wait you mean the official version of Star Wars is that Grecko shoots Han first at point blank and MISSES? WHY GOD? WHYYYYYY?



Simple-Greedo is what we call in bounty hunting circles "extremely incompetent."

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Friday, February 13, 2004 10:01 PM

LTNOWIS


Quote:

And I can't really understand why nobody uses orbital bombardment (in Ep 5 they explain that there is a shield, but there's no real planetary defenses in Ep 1 or 2).

Remember that these people haven't fought a major war for like a thousand years. Still, that is perplexing. Maybe the Jedi command didn't want to massacre the Geonosian factory workers.

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Friday, February 13, 2004 10:21 PM

VENA


Quote:

Originally posted by Hero:
Quote:

.

Listening to some of these anti-Bush people makes you wonder if they'd have had the balls...er...moral courage to stand up to Hitler (after all, the Germans never attacked us, and we didn't find out about the Holocaust till long after the war started).

H



Umm, yes they did attack us. If you recall the sinking of several British ships that involved the death of American passengers.

Go back to history class.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



http://stripe.filetap.com/

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Friday, February 13, 2004 10:46 PM

DRAGONFLYDIRECTOR


ON TOPIC
George is just being a shit and not letting the original be put on DVD. Why ... he felt it was 'unfinished'. Bladerdash!

Shoot, he would make nearly TWICE as much gitus {$$$} by making ALL versions available.

Now on the other side of the 'unfinished' coin, take a look at Robert Wise' versions of "Star Trek - The Motion Picture'.

The folks at Foundation imaging really took pains to match the 'grain' and look of the original.

Wise had a legit complaint - STTMP was unfinished and WAS rushed into the theaters - Post Star Wars too! Effects maker Able screwed the production and was 'fired' ...

Anyhoo, Wise went to Paramount and asked if he could 'finish' the film ... and thus the "Special Editions" of Trek movies was born.

There is a BIG differance in the '79(?) STTMP and the 2000 'Special Edition'. But no real changes to the story. Nothing like "Greedo shoots first" garbage in Lucas' 'Special Editions'.

Savvy!

OFF TOPIC

Quote:

Orginal By Vena
Umm, yes they did attack us. If you recall the sinking of several British ships that involved the death of American passengers.

Go back to history class.



Umm, not an attack on American shipping. Many Americans are killed overseas in bombings and other war/terroist related incidents. We did not 'go to war' for these incidents and murders.

If your assumption is true, then why did it take Pearl Harbor to influence America to enter the war - in the full blown fashion that the USA did AFTER Pearl Harbor and thus getting the backing of the U.S. citizans?

Bandy NO semantics... and check YOUR history.


"Observe Analyze & Respond"
Motto of the A.P.E.s
Alliance Protean Engineers


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Friday, February 13, 2004 10:48 PM

LTNOWIS


Quote:

Listening to some of these anti-Bush people makes you wonder if they'd have had the balls...er...moral courage to stand up to Hitler (after all, the Germans never attacked us, and we didn't find out about the Holocaust till long after the war started).


America never "stood up to" Germany in WWII. We declared war on Japan, their ally, so they and Italy were obligated to declare war on us. The British and French declared war on Germany because they had an alliance with Poland. All the other nations were either attacked by Germany or were unimportant in the war, like Iceland.

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:32 AM

ECMORGAN69


Quote:

Originally posted by Succatash:

I don't care much about changing the Max band scene, I'm extremely annoyed about the "Han shot first" change.

It really alters Han Solo's character by softening the Greedo scene. Not to mention it looks like shit the way Han just digitally moves sideways when Greedo shoots at him first.

It's so sick and wrong to change that. Lucas mainly claims the Special Edition is due to better technology but he is really wrong to mess with Han Solo's character.




Actually, that is a pet peeve of mine also. I think I already posted that in this thread. Is it annoyingly PC, softening Han Solo's image from scoundrel to an almost Ewokesque warm-and-fuzziness? Yes. A tremedous detriment to the updated trilogy? IMHO, not at all.

I still prefer Firefly, though Obviously, since we aren't at the Star Wars website arguing about the Firefly DVDs...

"You can't take the sky from me..."

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:11 AM

DESANGRO


Well, I'm probably going to buy the Star Wars DVDs. I know that I've made harsh comments about the prequels and I stand by those comments... but the original trilogy was responsible for firing up a love of science fiction that eventually led to Firefly. I saw all three Star Wars in the theatres in 1997, and to me they were pure magic. I actually really loved the Max Rebo band sequence in Return of the Jedi (Jabba's palace scene was one of my favorites). I guess this is a little bit like the altered scene in "OBJECTS IN SPACE": the only people who will see that episode as it was originally done will be the people who watched it on national TV. Now, with the DVD set out, Joss Whedon has inserted different dialogue into the conversation between Mal and Inara in the opening scenes to the ep. Why? Because that's the way that Joss Whedon, the creator of the show, wanted it to be done originally, but couldn't have done on national broadcast. If the Special Editions are the definative version that Lucas wants, okay, and I'll probably buy them, though the 9-disc Aliens DVDs will probabaly be a higher priority.

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 6:17 AM

ECMORGAN69


Right on.

Now my remaining question is what happened to the opening monologues that were originally done by Mal and Book? I haven't seen those on any of the DVDs. Could they be an Easter Egg? Or were they just omitted?

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 7:33 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


I can't recall where I saw it (possibly aint-it-cool-news) but there has been a rumor that Lucas has been working on even more changes/enhancements to the original trilogy beyond what we have already seen. I don't know if it is true or not, but one rumor stated he intends to revert back to the "Han shoots first" scenario.

Personally, I prefer the original versions, considering that he did enhance and clean up some of the FX shots for video release just a few years before the Special Editions. However, I will more than likely purchase the DVD set, at least buying it for my son if not also for myself, simply because that is what will be available.

But if Lucas is the money-hungry whore so many paint him to be, the best solution would be for him to release both versions in the same set, ala the Alien Quadrilogy. That way everyone could be satisfied, even though that set might be very expensive.


Burn the land and boil the sea
You can't take the sky from me.

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 7:51 AM

ECMORGAN69


It's funny that a lot of people seem to think he's this greedy S.O.B. It hink he's actually just shrewd at making money from his ideas and work. The smartest thing he ever did was retain the rights to "Star Wars" and everything that comes from it.

For me, the real improvements for the movies in the later versions are all the space combat sequences. I think the newer CGI combat sequences are the way Lucas would have liked to show them in the 70s if the technology had been there.

As far as Episodes #1 - #3, will somebody please tell George to stop writing the dialogue? Oh yeah, and while I'm at it, tell him to stop writing period. He can really do wonders with the visuals, but his clunky, forced, painful-to-the-ears dialogue makes the movies more tedious to watch than they need to be.

Ok, enough ranting.

They can have my "Firefly" DVDs when they pry them from my cold, dead fingers....

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:19 AM

OUTLANDER


There are two thing that really bugs me about this new Star Wars DVD set which also bugged me about the Indiana Jones DVD set:-

(1) I hate the fact that you can't buy just the first movie in each set. You can't go out and buy Raiders of The Lost Ark or the Original Star Wars film in nice two/three DVD set. You have to buy the other two films in the set no matter if you want them or not.

(2) George Lucas is a notorious collector of Star Wars and Indiana Jones stuff, yet he seen fit to have only one extra DVD to cover the special features for three movies. George Lucas should have enough stuff to cover thirty DVDs not just one.

I never got the Indiana Jones set, because really only wanted Raiders of The Lost Ark and I also thought that the lack of special features and ultra plain packaging sucked really badly.

So what I am going to do is wait for Raiders of The Lost Ark to become a $1 weekly rental and then burn myself a copy, which will tie me over until George pulls his thumb out of his ass and releases a descent three DVD Set Ultimate Edition of Raider of The Lost Ark.

And I think I will do the same with Star Wars.

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 8:41 AM

TALLGUY


Quote:

Originally posted by DeSangro:
Well, I'm probably going to buy the Star Wars DVDs. I know that I've made harsh comments about the prequels and I stand by those comments... but the original trilogy was responsible for firing up a love of science fiction that eventually led to Firefly. I saw all three Star Wars in the theatres in 1997, and to me they were pure magic. I actually really loved the Max Rebo band sequence in Return of the Jedi (Jabba's palace scene was one of my favorites). I guess this is a little bit like the altered scene in "OBJECTS IN SPACE": the only people who will see that episode as it was originally done will be the people who watched it on national TV. Now, with the DVD set out, Joss Whedon has inserted different dialogue into the conversation between Mal and Inara in the opening scenes to the ep. Why? Because that's the way that Joss Whedon, the creator of the show, wanted it to be done originally, but couldn't have done on national broadcast. If the Special Editions are the definative version that Lucas wants, okay, and I'll probably buy them, though the 9-disc Aliens DVDs will probabaly be a higher priority.



You know, I thought about OIS - here's the difference: Both scenes where filmed at the same time. It wasn't like he went back and re-did them. As I understand it, what we saw on TV was the fix for the fact that Heart of Gold wasn't going to be aired. (And note that the aired take is included.)

It's interesting that you mention Alien. In the liner notes for the extended Alien, Ridley Scott says that he doesn't LIKE the "director's cut" of Alien, he likes his original. But he says that for the fans, here's BOTH.

And the thing that REALLY bugs me about the SEs of Star Wars is that Lucas is really saying "screw you" to not just the fans, but to the original artists who worked on the film. What? It was ground breaking and won acclaim and changed the face of film making as we know it in 1977? Oh, well that's too bad. Next up let's go back an re-do the flying monkeys in The Wizard of Oz, and PLEASE for heaven's sake go back and fix those TERRIBLE airport effects in Casablanca!

I can't wait untill 20 years from now when Joss Whedon dumps that crappy CGI that Zoic did for Firefly. Boy, THAT'LL be a weight off!

Why doesn't Lucas go mess with THX-1138 or American Graffiti?

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 9:13 AM

DESANGRO


Quote:

Originally posted by TallGuy:
Quote:

Originally posted by DeSangro:
Well, I'm probably going to buy the Star Wars DVDs. I know that I've made harsh comments about the prequels and I stand by those comments... but the original trilogy was responsible for firing up a love of science fiction that eventually led to Firefly. I saw all three Star Wars in the theatres in 1997, and to me they were pure magic. I actually really loved the Max Rebo band sequence in Return of the Jedi (Jabba's palace scene was one of my favorites). I guess this is a little bit like the altered scene in "OBJECTS IN SPACE": the only people who will see that episode as it was originally done will be the people who watched it on national TV. Now, with the DVD set out, Joss Whedon has inserted different dialogue into the conversation between Mal and Inara in the opening scenes to the ep. Why? Because that's the way that Joss Whedon, the creator of the show, wanted it to be done originally, but couldn't have done on national broadcast. If the Special Editions are the definative version that Lucas wants, okay, and I'll probably buy them, though the 9-disc Aliens DVDs will probabaly be a higher priority.



You know, I thought about OIS - here's the difference: Both scenes where filmed at the same time. It wasn't like he went back and re-did them. As I understand it, what we saw on TV was the fix for the fact that Heart of Gold wasn't going to be aired. (And note that the aired take is included.)

It's interesting that you mention Alien. In the liner notes for the extended Alien, Ridley Scott says that he doesn't LIKE the "director's cut" of Alien, he likes his original. But he says that for the fans, here's BOTH.

And the thing that REALLY bugs me about the SEs of Star Wars is that Lucas is really saying "screw you" to not just the fans, but to the original artists who worked on the film. What? It was ground breaking and won acclaim and changed the face of film making as we know it in 1977? Oh, well that's too bad. Next up let's go back an re-do the flying monkeys in The Wizard of Oz, and PLEASE for heaven's sake go back and fix those TERRIBLE airport effects in Casablanca!

I can't wait untill 20 years from now when Joss Whedon dumps that crappy CGI that Zoic did for Firefly. Boy, THAT'LL be a weight off!

Why doesn't Lucas go mess with THX-1138 or American Graffiti?

Bill
"We all know I'm the funny one."
"You ain't all that funny."



Touche`. It would be nice to have the originals, simply because then they won't be lost to history forever. I'd actually like to see a version of Star Wars that has the working print lost footage in somewhere, or maybe in a deleted scenes section. I read an article in Star Wars Insider about that.

Granted though, it is nice to have both the originals and director's cuts availible in a lasting format. Ridley Scott's two-disc deluxe version of "Legend" comes to mind. Both the director's cut and the US theatrical version are on it, and the two versions aren't so much greater or better than one another. Instead, in some ways, they complement eachother.

Still, I'm confused: how much of the original spaceship models effects did Lucas replace for the SEs? I'm too young to have seen the originals in the theatres, so I'm not sure. I thought Lucas just touched up the quality of the picture and sound and added in some special effects that they weren't able to do satistfactorily with the effects in the 70's and 80's. I heard someone saying that the fighter scequences were changed. Can someone enlighten me?

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 10:36 AM

JASONZZZ


Quote:

Originally posted by SadLittleKing:


And I find it truly obscene that so many men would fault Clinton for lying about adultry when most married men are guilty of the same crimes (commiting adultry and lying about it). And some women, too. Hypocrisy at its finest.



I don't like Clinton and don't like Bush a whole lot. But look, others who have sex at work gets fired! People who commit sexual harassment gets sued. I could much careless about adultery - adultery is between the wife and the husband to sue each other over. If it illegal for me to have sex and commit sexual harassment at work, it sure as hell is illegal for the guy in the country's top post. I hired him to do a job, not to get a "Job!"...



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Saturday, February 14, 2004 10:42 AM

JASONZZZ


Quote:

Originally posted by outlander:


So what I am going to do is wait for Raiders of The Lost Ark to become a $1 weekly rental and then burn myself a copy, which will tie me over until George pulls his thumb out of his ass and releases a descent three DVD Set Ultimate Edition of Raider of The Lost Ark.

And I think I will do the same with Star Wars.



Takes you an entire week to rip and burn one DVD? Wow, I thought my wife kept a strict schedule. I gotta go and thank her for letting me do anything at all. Happy Valentines, poochie woochie.

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Saturday, February 14, 2004 5:49 PM

HERO


Sorry to beat a dead horse (or as my Republican friends say 'kick a little Ass'). For the record, this has everything to do with Star Wars, in some bizarre twisted kind of way that I can't really figure out or explain. So its not off topic. Really, its not.

Quote:

Originally posted by Knibblet:
It all comes back to the basic truths, Hero. You can twist it and justify it and distort it but here is what happened.

Our President justified this war by citing an "immediate threat of Saddam using WMD". We went to war.

There is no WMD. There was no threat.


ACTUALLY there were many reasons given. WMDs was a big one. The list also included: trying in 1993 to kill ex-President Bush, the first World Trade Center bombing, failing to comply with weapons inspectors (thats the ironic one), firing on US and British jets in the 'No Fly Zone', failing to return or other wise account for thousands of Kuwaiti citizens and one US pilot, and many others, too many to list here and several of which violate the 1991 ceasefire.

Hussein sought continuing confrontation and war. He had ten years to cooperate, but when everyone watched the buildings fall on Sept 11, did anyone doubt Hussein's days were numbered? I didn't. Even the President told us it was coming. He warned that we would be attacking those that actively supported terror. He warned of failing world sentiment. He even said it was going to result in American casualties.

Here:
"Our response involves far more than instant retaliation and isolated strikes. Americans should not expect one battle, but a lengthy campaign, unlike any other we have ever seen...And we will pursue nations that provide aid or safe haven to terrorism. Every nation, in every region, now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists. (Applause.) From this day forward, any nation that continues to harbor or support terrorism will be regarded by the United States as a hostile regime. "- Bush, Sept 20, 2001

Quote:

A anti-social loner breaks into your house to kill you, while waltzing through the livingroom, he spots a cigarette burning on a cushion. He puts out the smoldering fire and uses the cushion to suffocate you. I'm guessing the authorities should congratulate him for averting a house fire?


I assume you mean to say America or rather President Bush is the anti-social loner. Maybe. I'm sure thats how the corrupt and jealous leaders of old Europe see him. And the hate filled liberals of America.

Make no mistake, most opposition to Bush comes from smoldering hate. Its a hate that began back in Nov of 2000 when NBC changed Florida from Gore blue to undecided white. Hatred that grew as frantic Democratic poll workers pinned all the anit-Bush hopes on punch cards held up to the lights. Hatred for a Supreme Court that ruled in a way they didn't want. They seethed at Bush's hand on the bible, blistered at his early legislative successes and boiled at the sight of children playing baseball on the lawn of the White House. Sure they pushed it aside for a few weeks after Sept 11. But time and opportunity has allowed that hatred to surface, and I think some, not all, but some of these liberals will be ashamed in years to come after time allows passions to cool and honost reflection to occur. But for now, its gonna be a long year.

Quote:

Bush lied or he was jerked around like a puppet on a string. Your choice, Hero.


If I have a choice in your narrow world, its that Bush led and we followed and now the world is a better place, but its still a long way home.

I offer you a choice. Get on your knees before the terrorists and tyrants, enslave your wives, brutalize your children, worship their God, their way and beg for the scraps from their tables. Or freedom. Your choice, Knibblet.

Oh, Star Wars is a traditional heroic myth presented in a uniquely American format. It has also made hundreds of millions of dollars worldwide. Back then the world was divided between Free Nations and an "evil Empire". Its hard to appreciate how much is changed in a short 25 years, especially when one refuses to take a good look.

H

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