GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Would you want Firefly without Mal?

POSTED BY: GWEK
UPDATED: Thursday, December 10, 2009 01:55
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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 6:34 PM

GWEK


We all know that DOLLHOUSE not getting renewed for a third season, and while none of it is anything more than speculation, there seems to be a bit of renewed buzz about FIREFLY.

Let's speculate for a moment, and imagine that FOX, Universal, or some other studio gives Joss the go-ahead to do another season of FIREFLY.

The problem is this: CASTLE seems to be a success, so Nathan Fillion is unavailable. Similarly, Morena Baccarin and Adam Baldwin might also not be available (although I have my doubts about the future health of V, and CHUCK seems to constantly be on the bubble...).

So I put this to you:

Would you want another season of FIREFLY if the only returning cast members wer Gina Torres, Jewel Staite, Sean Maher, and Summer Glau? (With the possibility of Baccarin and/or Baldwin, but pretty much no hope for Fillion.)

Second question:

Given the choice between an ongoing series with only part of the original cast, or a direct-to-DVD movie annually with all seven of the surviving crew, which would you choose?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 6:43 PM

KATESFRIEND


There's no Firefly without Mal. Joss based the series on him, so the alternative is to shoot when the actors are available. I can't imagine the actors not bending over backwards to be available to do more Firefly.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 7:26 PM

GWEK


I agree that they would do what they can to show back up, but I can't imagine that Fillion, being the scene-chewing star of his own series, has too much spare time these days!

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 8:24 PM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


F*X owns the rights until 2012.


Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion


Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:25 PM

MOOSE


I think I could handle no Mal as long as Joss is directly involved. I'm pretty sure he would be able to work around that.

Besides, the show is called Firefly, not Capt. Tightpants. Heck, Serenity herself isn't guaranteed a spot in the show...
Unless, Joss decides to go with the Serenity title, of course.

ETA: to answer the actual question, would I want it without Mal? Hell no. He makes the show.
But at this point, I'll take what I can get.

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Wednesday, November 25, 2009 11:52 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


I'd rather go with another film or two. Firefly without Mal, Inara or Jayne and - depending on when they set the story - Book and Wash.. Well it just isn't Firefly.




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Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:13 AM

RIVERDANCER


Quote:

Originally posted by fillygirl:
F*X owns the rights until 2012.


I believe this statement is a bit fallacious. The production company of 20th Century Fox owns production rights to Firefly until 2012, I believe. From what I've read, that's the extent of any 'fox' holding the 'rights' to Firefly. The F*X that canceled us doesn't have any real 'rights' that I can find. I saw a video snippet at one point of Joss Whedon talking about being canceled, going to the head of whatever department he needed to go to, and asking if he could 'have the rights' so he could shop the show to other networks. If I remember the quote correctly it was, "And they said yes. And I think that was the last time I talked to them." Obviously, this was a few years before Dollhouse. But it does say to me that Fox, as in the canceling network, has no real power to block a series from being made. I've often seen the maliciousness of 'F*X' being touted as a hurdle to the series returning, but if they granted freedom to shop the series to other networks, I just can't see that as being true. Now, Universal may have certain rights, pertaining to the world of motion pictures, and I don't know whether or not that would be a hurdle.
To answer the original query, I wouldn't like to see the story without Mal. (I wouldn't like to see it without anyone. )

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:30 AM

FILLYGIRL

Operative: "Its worse than you know..." Mal: "It usually is."


..your entitled to believe what ever you want. There is so much wrong with your post......


Chaplain of the 76th Independant Battalion


Do not bother dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup!


...it's worse than you know...Operative
...it usually is.....Mal

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 12:50 AM

RIVERDANCER


What, exactly, is wrong with my post? The fact that I did the tiniest bit of research? The fact that I quoted something I heard come straight out of Joss Whedon's mouth? The fact that I have been searching for anything that indicates, to any extent, that the canceling network of Fox owns any rights to future Firefly projects and have found nothing (aside from fan speculation) while there are plenty of indicators that they do not? Or is it just the fact that I disagreed with you on some level? IMO I was quite respectful and impersonal. I didn't attack you or say you were absolutely wrong, I said that everything I'd read or heard on the subject indicated that you might, in this case, be mistaken about some details. I don't understand why you would come out swinging, with nothing to support your argument other than saying there was 'so much wrong' with my post. Speaking to me like some foolish child, who is 'believing whatever I want' on some kind of whim, rather than looking it up, pursuing it, and attempting to come to a conclusion based on what I have found, is not a very constructive way to converse. It's not going to get you any respect from me, or make me bow to your opinion as being absolutely correct, especially when I've found so much that counters it. Since you have no cites, and a simple google search yields articles that seem to indicate Fox (the network) has no rights to the future of the franchise, I don't see why you're so quick to throw stones my way like this. If you find something supporting, or even constructive, I'd be interested. I'm not interested in your vitriol.

BTW, to all who might want to check my quote out, I believe the snippet I saw of Joss talking about this issue was from Done the Impossible. When I have time to re-watch it, I will. If anyone else has a copy and the time, check to see if it's on there. I'm almost certain it is.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:19 AM

GWEK


Guys, I appreciate the discussion about who owns the rights to the show in reality, but this thread was supposed to be about a THEORETICAL philosophical fan choice for us Browncoats:

Would you rather have a new series with only 4-6 surviving cast members (and definitely no Mal) or semi-regular direct-to-DVD movies with ALL 7.*

*In either case, assume that we're post-Serenity, so Wash and Book are dead (although that doesn't rule out flashbacks, "ghosts," etc). If we went with a series, presumably Whedon would round out with new folk (possibly some of the talented newcomers from DOLLHOUSE), so it wouldn't be "just" 4 characters.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:03 AM

NCBROWNCOAT


I'd rather have the annual movies with the whole cast. Mal is central to Serenity's story.

But then a series would have to bring in new cast members. So maybe a different ship and a whole new crew?

http://fireflyfaninnc.livejournal.com/








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Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:36 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:

Would you want another season of FIREFLY if the only returning cast members wer Gina Torres, Jewel Staite, Sean Maher, and Summer Glau? (With the possibility of Baccarin and/or Baldwin, but pretty much no hope for Fillion.)



Mal/Fillion is certainly a central reason why the show worked so well.

How would you explain his absence, and what's the premise of the show? The same? Can't just keep being "space pirates" right? Would you replace him with another male lead?

I don't think it couldn't work without him, but it would feel weird with the others and not him. I think it would be a recipe for failure eventually.

To be honest - I think if you don't have him you shouldn't have any of the others (Flame On!), you'd have a better chance going in another direction completely and telling another story from the 'Verse, another group, another set of conflicts. The 'Verse is a BIG place full of great stories (as you know).
I think without Mal you would alienate a lot of fans. They'd watch but you may not get them back. Whereas without any of the original crew you'd have the entire fan base curious.

Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
Second question:

Given the choice between an ongoing series with only part of the original cast, or a direct-to-DVD movie annually with all seven of the surviving crew, which would you choose?



direct to DVD for the crew + a spin off series - the latter could be every bit as good/better than Stargate or BSG.

Scifi movie music + Firefly dialogue clips, 24 hours a day - http://www.scifiradio.com

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:52 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


IMO, Mal has to be part of any further explorations of the Firefly/Serenity 'Verse.

The best option is either another theatrical release or a made for TV movie (or mini-series). A lot of television actors do movies during their shows' production hiatus, no reason why Nathan, Adam or Morena couldn't be available if they really wanted to be a part of it. I am sure there is no one who actually thinks any of the original cast wouldn't jump at the chance to revisit the 'Verse.

NBC/Universal has the Sci-Fi Channel (sorry, but I refuse to type their new bastardized spelling), and they definitely need a good production now. We should start a massive write-in campaign for them to consider the 'Verse for a mini-series next December.






wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:59 AM

VEXEM


I'd prefer in-frequent content (movies, etc.) with the full cast over regular content with a few. The ensemble cast is a big part of what made the show great in my opinion.

I know that there are a lot of good actors out there, but I think you'd be hard pressed to find an actor that looked like they could and should care about River as much as Sean did; an actress as sweet, sensual and conflicted as Morena; etc., etc.

I think I love that crew as much if not more than the show (writing) overall. I know that that is a somewhat silly statement since the writing defines the characters, but I have trouble imagining that I could love the show nearly as much with a significantly smaller or different crew. If it comes down to a choice between crew changes or no more Firefly, then I just hope that I'm proven silly, fickle, and too afraid of change and that I can love the new cast/content as much as the old.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:03 AM

AGENTROUKA


My favorite character is Inara, so if it involved her and the plot was good, I could stomach a couple of episodes without Mal, so long as it was understood he would "return" at some point.

However, if Mal was written out completely, I'd become MUCH less interested because so much of Inara's story is tied to her unresolved issues with Mal.

Plus, Mal on his own is a hugely unresolved issue around which Firefly is centered, so I don't really see where the show would go if Mal was permanently removed from the story.


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Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:32 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


I'd love to see more- an annual DVD movie with the original cast would be *E*X*CE*L*L*E*N*T*.

But I'm also one of those folks who has advocated Firefly:The Next Generation, so a weekly series with a partially old cast would not be a shock.

Les'see-- Wash Jr, ( Zoe was pregnant and didn't know it yet...), Simon and Kaylee's kids, Mal & Inara's kids, Zoe commanding onboard, and the original cast members guesting or doing cameos when available, whenever the boat visits the planets where they've settled down-- ooh, SHINY!

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:44 AM

BYTEMITE


I think before I proposed that something Joss MIGHT do is try to take Firefly to the internet, which would pretty much require each episode only focusing on only one to four crew members. I think Dr. Horrible only billing four main stars and the production crew was the main reason it was profitable, the costs weren't too high.

But you could switch around, and each episode could focus on a different part of the crew. Maybe, theoretically, after Miranda, they had to split up and go into hiding, the Operative does warn Mal that he can't promise no one else will come after them.

I'd be fine with THAT, it would work around the actors/actresses' schedules, everyone could appear, even Ron and Alan in flashbacks.

Not having Mal? Wouldn't work, same as if you took any one of the other characters out completely. Each character fills a VERY, VERY important role. It's the balance on the show that makes it so enjoyable.


>_> Quick comment on the rights thing, since it was brought up, but I understand the desire for this thread to not devolve into an argument.

I think Fox or F*X or whoever does have SOME rights still, because when Universal was working with Multiverse to create a Firefly MMORPG, Fox or F*X or whoever was able to block it. Actually, I think it's a good sign that they ARE fighting over the franchise rights, means the industry still has interest.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 7:45 AM

AGENTROUKA


Quote:


But I'm also one of those folks who has advocated Firefly:The Next Generation, so a weekly series with a partially old cast would not be a shock.

Les'see-- Wash Jr, ( Zoe was pregnant and didn't know it yet...), Simon and Kaylee's kids, Mal & Inara's kids, Zoe commanding onboard, and the original cast members guesting or doing cameos when available, whenever the boat visits the planets where they've settled down-- ooh, SHINY!



If they ever made this instead of the continuing the show as they left it? I would be so, so, so sad.

I don't care about new characters, I want to see the existing ones complete their journey.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 8:40 AM

GILLIANROSE


I can't imagine firefly/Serenity without Mal. And I would feel so, so sad for Nathan! He's repeatedly said Mal was the best job, the best character he's ever had or ever will have. Going on without him because he has another job would just be too mean.

And Serenity is Mal's ship, the song's about Mal, the reasons that Serenity and her crew does what they do are Mal's reasons. He makes a family of them, to paraphrase Inara. Mal is among the most compelling fictional characters I have ever read or seen, and I can't imagine that the story wouldn't be irreparably diminished without him.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 1:00 PM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?


"NO"...next dumbass question?

ok..seriously..lots of folks have it right...the story line is about Mal..period...any man who has ever had to head up a family and struggle through loosing times without being able to turn to, say a father figure, understands a part of what the Mal character is.

this doesn't take away from the other cast...fantastic characters and actors...and like I've already said, there are some great options to bring Wash backinto the game with some very interesting options..and no..'V' is dead..the network hopes that we'll forget it ever happened come next March.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 1:29 PM

GWEK


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Les'see-- Wash Jr, ( Zoe was pregnant and didn't know it yet...), Simon and Kaylee's kids, Mal & Inara's kids, Zoe commanding onboard, and the original cast members guesting or doing cameos when available, whenever the boat visits the planets where they've settled down-- ooh, SHINY!



Oh, it's so funny that you think Simon and Kaylee would stay together long enough to have kids! Or that Mal and Inara will ever be a functional couple! Soooo funny! It's like you've never seen anything by Joss Whedon! :P

Most likely outcome of Simon and Kaylee hooking up: Simon and/or Kaylee dead, raped, and/or mind-wiped. :(

In Joss-land, no one gets to be happy for very long at all.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 2:55 PM

BYTEMITE


Ouch, Gwek. Yeah, okay, I agree, but that's kinda harsh on NOBC, isn't it?

A next-generation wouldn't really interest me either, I don't see why the Hands of Blue would be after them or the Alliance, which is the major source of tension for the series and movie. Yeah they're smugglers, and they'd get in trouble with the law here and there, but there wouldn't be the deep plot lines we see now, it'd mostly be watching how their kids hook up.

But still, if people want something fluffy, something adventure serial with a heist every episode and a happy to darkly-sad-okay ending, that's their prerogative.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:42 PM

GWEK


Yeah, I guess maybe it does come off as a little harsh on NOBC... definitely harsher than I meant. No offense intended, NOBC, although I still stand by my opinion.

I guess I was smarting a little from OldGuy calling my question "dumbass." :P

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 3:51 PM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, that's understandable.

I don't think the question was dumbass, it brings up a good question about how to work around schedules... I just think there's a better solution than not having Nathan return as Mal Reynolds.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:30 PM

RALLEM


Why not recast the entire crew for Serenity? We all love the characters and actors from the original series Firefly, so we have a hard time picturing the show with other actors, but with solid scripts from Joss I bet we could get another series running in a slightly different but fully satisfying direction. Didn't Joss prove the only real star of the show was Serenity itself when he fired Rebecca Gayheart?



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Thursday, November 26, 2009 4:45 PM

KATESFRIEND


I remember an interview with one of the writers - I don't remember who - but they said the first ground rule Joss gave them for creating a storyline was that they could do anything they want except kill Mal.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 5:21 PM

KINGEICHOLZ


A lot of people said star trek wouldn't work without Kirk but then came the next generation and I think was on for 7 years. So it could work might not be the same for those of us who watched it when it was first on but those who are new to they might not know who Mel was.

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:15 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:


Oh, it's so funny that you think Simon and Kaylee would stay together long enough to have kids! Or that Mal and Inara will ever be a functional couple! Soooo funny! It's like you've never seen anything by Joss Whedon! :P

Most likely outcome of Simon and Kaylee hooking up: Simon and/or Kaylee dead, raped, and/or mind-wiped. :(

In Joss-land, no one gets to be happy for very long at all.




Truth to tell, I haven't ever seen anything else he's done- - no Buffy or Angel, no Dollhouse, and only part of DR Horrible.
But I have read plenty of commentary about his work that suggests that you could be right. ( I've also seen enough of his stuff fai-- not succeed to well--)
Personally, I'm an old school kinda guy, I like hopeful, happy endings. I support his artistic freedom, and his right to do dark stuff, and angst. His choice. But it's also Fox's or Universal's right to finance, or not finance, his art, based on their expectation of making a dollar.
I'd watch a happy rebirth. But I've had enough of darkness and loss already, with the BDM...

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 6:19 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by KingEICHOLZ:
A lot of people said star trek wouldn't work without Kirk but then came the next generation and I think was on for 7 years. So it could work might not be the same for those of us who watched it when it was first on but those who are new to they might not know who Mel was.



OMG, I agree with KingE on something. Quick, anybody, put a bullet to me right now. I don't wanta live long enough to wait to see it...

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Thursday, November 26, 2009 10:34 PM

VERASAMUELS


We could have something like 'Tales from the Verse' which would involve the BDHs in occasional/background roles. Rather like hints I've heard about Browncoat:Redemption :-). A scene or three [or single episodes] with BDHs within a larger piece of work.

Just a thought...

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Friday, November 27, 2009 2:17 AM

PACHELBEL


I, too, feel like it wouldn't be Firefly/Serenity without the original characters. I guess I'd be game to see life go on without Book and Wash, but that's it.

However, would people be willing to replace the existing actors? If Nathan can't be Mal, then I would have no problem with Jonathan LaPaglia as the next Captain of Serenity.

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Friday, November 27, 2009 4:43 AM

RALLEM


There might be other actors out there we don't even know about who can do a great job and lead the story in a slightly different direction with a slightly different group dynamic, so the Browncoats can both enjoy the show and say that would never happen in the original. I was listening to one of Nathan Fillion's interviews and he was asked on how he acts out a scene in character, and I believe he said something to the effect that he never really acted out a scene in character and he would ask himself how would he react to this situation and take it from there. To some or many actors that approach may seem limiting, but honestly, in my opinion, I think it is refreshing and it weaves into the tale a new level of honesty on top of the already great script writing.



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Friday, November 27, 2009 4:49 AM

ROBSAD79


I would hate it, but I would be open to watch it. Think of it this way. If Firefly lasted 9 seasons, would Mal still be there? By season 9 we could have all new characters. Actors and Actresses are always leaving their shows.
Firefly would be like CSI with Grissom.

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Friday, November 27, 2009 5:05 AM

GWEK


Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Personally, I'm an old school kinda guy, I like hopeful, happy endings.



"Happy ending" is all about perspective, isn't it?

I,for example, think that Kaylee and Simon (or Mal and Inara) ending up together would NOT be a happy ending--since neither is really a good couple.

Joss has done an interesting thing with both pairings. He's created two couples who cannot legitimately exist off of SERENITY. In each case, the parties are (literally and metaphorically) "from two different worlds," and could not exist on either native world. (In SHINDIG, we see what happens to both Kaylee and Mal when they step into the world of Inara/Simon, and Inara and Simon would fare no better trying to fit into the native environments of Mal/Kaylee).

On the ship, we have an environment that exists, quite literally, "between the worlds," giving these relationships an artificial home in which to thrive and prosper. Take that away, and both couples are doomed (which, let's face it, is a lot of what makes the two couples so much fun to watch and root for).

More likely (I think) that a legitimately "happy ending" would involve Mal and Kaylee as a couple, living on their beloved Serenity with a passel of kids (note that Kaylee and Mal are the only ones who really treat SERENITY as a character; they both truly LOVE the ship. Heck, in the pilot, when they survive the Reavers, both of them pat the ship almost simultaneously).

I also don't think a Simon/Inara pairing would be an unhappy one (at least until Inara dies from whatever horrifying condition Joss has already given her). They are of essentially the same world, and have, from their earliest scenes, shared a bond of trust and confort that is distinctly different (but no less valid) than what they share with Mal/Kaylee.



www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, November 27, 2009 5:11 AM

GWEK


A lot of very interesting (and faily consistent) opinions are showing up.

Perhaps I should revise the question to something lile:

Would you rather see:

a) FIREFLY (with the entire surviving crew) continued as periodic direct-to-DVD movies (or possibly made-for-TV miniseries)?

b) A new series continuing the adventures of the surviving crew (Kaylee, Simon, River, Zoe, possibly Inara, maybe Jayne)?

c) A new series set in the 'Verse, but not featuring the crew of Serenity in any major role?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, November 27, 2009 5:51 AM

KATESFRIEND


a. If you want to build an audience you have to have as much draw as possible. Right now Nathan and Morena are probably the most bankable stars from Firefly.

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Friday, November 27, 2009 6:30 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Joss has done an interesting thing with both pairings. He's created two couples who cannot legitimately exist off of SERENITY. In each case, the parties are (literally and metaphorically) "from two different worlds," and could not exist on either native world. (In SHINDIG, we see what happens to both Kaylee and Mal when they step into the world of Inara/Simon, and Inara and Simon would fare no better trying to fit into the native environments of Mal/Kaylee).

On the ship, we have an environment that exists, quite literally, "between the worlds," giving these relationships an artificial home in which to thrive and prosper. Take that away, and both couples are doomed (which, let's face it, is a lot of what makes the two couples so much fun to watch and root for).



Hmm, well I don't disagree with your point about social status being an obstacle in both cases...

I do disagree that it completely invalidates the two pairings as couples.

For me, Shindig was as much about Mal and Kaylee not fitting into Inara and Simon's worlds as it was about as it was about Inara not fitting into her own world and Mal not fitting into his. It's not so much that Serenity is an artificial environment where these two worlds are coming together, but rather it's where all of these characters are trying to escape their worlds.

Mal can't go back to Shadow, for obvious reasons, and he actually doesn't fit the profile of his new role as a criminal (Inara: "And that's why you are ALWAYS getting into trouble!"). Simon can't go back to his world, for obvious reasons as well (Better Days comments indirectly on this). There are some pretty strong indications that Inara can't go back to Sihnon for some reason, and on the border and rim worlds, the perception of companions is very different, so she doesn't fit into the upper class out there. Kaylee seems like the only character who could still fit into her world, though maybe that's wrong, we may not know the full reason behind her being so eager to get off her homeworld, it might have been more than "Ooh, mechanics job and travel! Shiny!"

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Friday, November 27, 2009 6:31 AM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:

"Happy ending" is all about perspective, isn't it?

I,for example, think that Kaylee and Simon (or Mal and Inara) ending up together would NOT be a happy ending--since neither is really a good couple.

Joss has done an interesting thing with both pairings. He's created two couples who cannot legitimately exist off of SERENITY. In each case, the parties are (literally and metaphorically) "from two different worlds," and could not exist on either native world. (In SHINDIG, we see what happens to both Kaylee and Mal when they step into the world of Inara/Simon, and Inara and Simon would fare no better trying to fit into the native environments of Mal/Kaylee).

On the ship, we have an environment that exists, quite literally, "between the worlds," giving these relationships an artificial home in which to thrive and prosper. Take that away, and both couples are doomed (which, let's face it, is a lot of what makes the two couples so much fun to watch and root for).

More likely (I think) that a legitimately "happy ending" would involve Mal and Kaylee as a couple, living on their beloved Serenity with a passel of kids (note that Kaylee and Mal are the only ones who really treat SERENITY as a character; they both truly LOVE the ship. Heck, in the pilot, when they survive the Reavers, both of them pat the ship almost simultaneously).

I also don't think a Simon/Inara pairing would be an unhappy one (at least until Inara dies from whatever horrifying condition Joss has already given her). They are of essentially the same world, and have, from their earliest scenes, shared a bond of trust and confort that is distinctly different (but no less valid) than what they share with Mal/Kaylee.



This is a fascinating and brilliant thought that deserves to be expanded -- it would fit right in with the essays in Finding Serenity.

To a degree, I would disagree with you-- my grandparents were about as diverse a group as you can get from European stock-- an Irish Catholic, a German Jew,a Swiss-German Protestant, and a French-Canadian Catholic. And they didn't pair up neatly- the Irishman was married to the Jewish woman, and the French Canadian to the German Protestant. They had 2 marriages that lasted " till death do us part", and produced bunches of children.
My wife comes from old Boston/Virginia/English stock on one side, and lower class Colorado frontiersmen on the other-- we've been married for 30+ years now, and still going strong.

"Isn't it wonderful, Sadie? Only in America---"

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Friday, November 27, 2009 6:38 AM

ROBSAD79


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
Quote:

Originally posted by NewOldBrownCoat:
Personally, I'm an old school kinda guy, I like hopeful, happy endings.



"Happy ending" is all about perspective, isn't it?

I,for example, think that Kaylee and Simon (or Mal and Inara) ending up together would NOT be a happy ending--since neither is really a good couple.

Joss has done an interesting thing with both pairings. He's created two couples who cannot legitimately exist off of SERENITY. In each case, the parties are (literally and metaphorically) "from two different worlds," and could not exist on either native world. (In SHINDIG, we see what happens to both Kaylee and Mal when they step into the world of Inara/Simon, and Inara and Simon would fare no better trying to fit into the native environments of Mal/Kaylee).

On the ship, we have an environment that exists, quite literally, "between the worlds," giving these relationships an artificial home in which to thrive and prosper. Take that away, and both couples are doomed (which, let's face it, is a lot of what makes the two couples so much fun to watch and root for).

More likely (I think) that a legitimately "happy ending" would involve Mal and Kaylee as a couple, living on their beloved Serenity with a passel of kids (note that Kaylee and Mal are the only ones who really treat SERENITY as a character; they both truly LOVE the ship. Heck, in the pilot, when they survive the Reavers, both of them pat the ship almost simultaneously).

I also don't think a Simon/Inara pairing would be an unhappy one (at least until Inara dies from whatever horrifying condition Joss has already given her). They are of essentially the same world, and have, from their earliest scenes, shared a bond of trust and confort that is distinctly different (but no less valid) than what they share with Mal/Kaylee.



www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."



I see your point but I also disagree. I know couples who come from different worlds that you would never expect but yet out of my friends they are the happiest.

As the saying goes, "opposites attact."

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Friday, November 27, 2009 6:58 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
A lot of very interesting (and faily consistent) opinions are showing up.

Perhaps I should revise the question to something lile:

Would you rather see:

a) FIREFLY (with the entire surviving crew) continued as periodic direct-to-DVD movies (or possibly made-for-TV miniseries)?

b) A new series continuing the adventures of the surviving crew (Kaylee, Simon, River, Zoe, possibly Inara, maybe Jayne)?

c) A new series set in the 'Verse, but not featuring the crew of Serenity in any major role?


Is it cheating to say a, b and c?





wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, November 27, 2009 8:00 AM

FREELANCERTEX


I don't think Firefly would be the same without the whole original cast, especially Mal; wouldn't really want a continuation with only part of our original browncoat cast :\


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Friday, November 27, 2009 8:19 AM

FOLLOWMAL


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
A lot of very interesting (and faily consistent) opinions are showing up.

Perhaps I should revise the question to something lile:

Would you rather see:

a) FIREFLY (with the entire surviving crew) continued as periodic direct-to-DVD movies (or possibly made-for-TV miniseries)?

b) A new series continuing the adventures of the surviving crew (Kaylee, Simon, River, Zoe, possibly Inara, maybe Jayne)?

c) A new series set in the 'Verse, but not featuring the crew of Serenity in any major role?


Is it cheating to say a, b and c?





wo men ren ran zai fei xing.



Not cheating I say! Best of all worlds.

http://www.kidsneedtoread.org/




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Friday, November 27, 2009 8:36 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by FollowMal:
Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
A lot of very interesting (and faily consistent) opinions are showing up.

Perhaps I should revise the question to something lile:

Would you rather see:

a) FIREFLY (with the entire surviving crew) continued as periodic direct-to-DVD movies (or possibly made-for-TV miniseries)?

b) A new series continuing the adventures of the surviving crew (Kaylee, Simon, River, Zoe, possibly Inara, maybe Jayne)?

c) A new series set in the 'Verse, but not featuring the crew of Serenity in any major role?


Is it cheating to say a, b and c?





wo men ren ran zai fei xing.



Not cheating I say! Best of all worlds.

http://www.kidsneedtoread.org/





Hell, let's go all out and create the Firefly Television Network. Badger, Saffron, Niska, Patience, Jubal Early and The Blue-Hand Guys all get their own spin-off series, plus a sitcom based on those wacky hill folk from "Safe" and a new L&O: Alliance and CSI: Ariel to boot. The possibilities are endless.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Friday, November 27, 2009 10:48 AM

RALLEM


Quote:

Originally posted by freelancertex:
I don't think Firefly would be the same without the whole original cast, especially Mal; wouldn't really want a continuation with only part of our original browncoat cast :\




It doesn't matter if we had the entire original cast, a part of the original cast, or a completely new cast for a Firefly show, because all three would still be different from the original. I of course doubt if there will ever be another "Firefly" series, but with that said I think we Browncoats would have to get over any fear of change in the Firefly 'verse if we're ever to have any hope of getting a new series.



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Friday, November 27, 2009 1:58 PM

GWEK


Quote:

Originally posted by robsad79:
I see your point but I also disagree. I know couples who come from different worlds that you would never expect but yet out of my friends they are the happiest.

As the saying goes, "opposites attact."



Opposites do indeed attract... but statistically, don't stay bonded nearly as often as not-opposites.

That aside, I understand what you and NOBC are saying, and might not necessarily disagree under other circumstances. In both couples, we ALREADLY see the underlying tensions (and, I think, ultimate failures) in their relationships based on their social more and preconceptions. These are people who are defined by where they came from, and, in my opinion, both couples are just too different at their cores to last for too long.

Wash and Zoe are an example of an "opposites attract" that works (which, of course, is why Joss sends one of them to a brutal end). Their strengths are different but complementary, so each can help the other grow and prosper. I don't necessarily see that with Simon-Kaylee or Mal-Inara.

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Friday, November 27, 2009 2:05 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I don't necessarily see that with Simon-Kaylee or Mal-Inara.


No? I also disagree there. Kaylee is pure feeling, while Simon is more grounded in logic and reality. Similarly, Mal is violent, and could stand to be tempered a bit by Inara's non-violence, and Inara could learn some non-tolerance of the emotional abuse she receives from some of her clients (and possibly a good dose of reality. Sometimes I wonder about the poor dear and all her masks).

But what in particular in their opposite-ness do you think would be destructive for the characters in each couple?

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Friday, November 27, 2009 2:21 PM

RALLEM


Wouldn't character team ups like the ones you talk about ruin the crew dynamics and the show?



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Friday, November 27, 2009 2:46 PM

BYTEMITE


? This appears to have been written towards me.

Crew team-ups... Any more than Mal/Kaylee, Simon/Inara, or Wash/Zoe?

Part of the dynamics with the crew is all the tension between different people. This isn't the love boat, it's not about YAY PERFECT COUPLES, and neither, for that matter, is love.

I also think that if there wasn't any couple fighting that I wouldn't find Serenity or the crew dynamics very interesting, but that's just me.

And just because I don't really think it's canon, if anyone likes that, I don't mean to sound judgmental. If you want to write that, if you think you see JUST as much indication of attraction between WHOEVER you ship, then go for it.

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Friday, November 27, 2009 3:05 PM

RALLEM


I agree that authors of fan fiction stories have the right to do whatever they want with their story because it is their story, and that there is little chance of any of these pairs actually joining up since it would screw up the important dynamics of the show. There is one thing I am wondering though, in a purely hypothetical way, is it seems like Josh had Mal going exactly as he wanted with Nathan Fillion, so if he did get a second chance at making a new Firefly series with new actors, how would he make the new Mal slightly different? Would he make the new Mal different?



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Friday, November 27, 2009 3:10 PM

BYTEMITE


Judging by the Serenity movie, the new Mal might shoot puppies... and like it.

I guess it would also depend on the new actor's comedy ability. Nathan has a very good sense of comedy. A new actor might theoretically be more grim and dark. Which might not necessarily be worse if it made Mal edgier, it'd just be different.

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