GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

joss wheddon meeting with FX about new projects.

POSTED BY: BROWNBUG
UPDATED: Thursday, February 11, 2010 14:46
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Monday, January 18, 2010 4:08 PM

BROWNBUG


aicn.com is reporting that Joss is meeting with the head of FX about new TV projects. The guy apparently loves him! Sorry i cant post the link but im on my phone. Would love it to be a new firefly but quite a few of the cast members r tied up. Would they give it up for a new Firefly. Im not sure V will last but Castle and Chuck r renewed are they not?


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Monday, January 18, 2010 4:35 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownBug:
aicn.com is reporting that Joss is meeting with the head of FX about new TV projects. The guy apparently loves him! Sorry i cant post the link but im on my phone. Would love it to be a new firefly but quite a few of the cast members r tied up. Would they give it up for a new Firefly. Im not sure V will last but Castle and Chuck r renewed are they not?




There's another thread floating around here about it.

To be honest, I'd be happy enough with some sort of spin-off or reboot, and let our Big Damn Crew show up once in a while as guest stars (or VERY SPECIAL GUEST STARS!)...


I'd love to know what goes on in that meeting.

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Tuesday, January 19, 2010 9:17 AM

SCHLACKO


Sounds shiny, FX would be a good fit for Joss. I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that he promised we'd know what his next project is before the Dollhouse finale aired.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 11:15 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS



I dunno. You do realize that only the letter "O" is missing from FX.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 1:48 PM

STORYMARK


There is a difference between the corporate parent, and the people running individual networks. Besides, the underlying point is that cable has lower expectations for ratings.

And despite the love many have for demonizing Fox - they canned the show because it wasn't pulling ratings high enough to make it a viable show. They're in the business of making money, not placating and/or screwing Joss fans just because.

There is, like it or not, a ceiling on his fanbase. The fanbase is big enough to make a cable show a hit - but not a network one.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 4:38 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
There is a difference between the corporate parent, and the people running individual networks. Besides, the underlying point is that cable has lower expectations for ratings.

And despite the love many have for demonizing Fox - they canned the show because it wasn't pulling ratings high enough to make it a viable show. They're in the business of making money, not placating and/or screwing Joss fans just because.

There is, like it or not, a ceiling on his fanbase. The fanbase is big enough to make a cable show a hit - but not a network one.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



Ah-HAH! See, Mark? I *knew* we had a core of agreement! :)

Yes, Fox did indeed cancel Firefly AND Dollhouse. But you know what else, people? Fox ALSO was the only network to BUY Firefly or Dollhouse, and the only way we ever got to see them in the first place. Nobody ever commends them for that, do they?

And they took a chance on Firefly because Joss had a couple of hits on his hands with Buffy and Angel. BUT - and isn't there always a "but"? - remember that what was a hit for the fledgling WB network wouldn't have qualified as a hit for Fox, CBS, ABC, or NBC. As has been pointed out, there's a large gulf of difference between the ratings required for a hit on a major network and what passes for a hit on cable.

Have you ever heard how people tout O'Reilly's ratings on Fox News, for instance? He gets a couple million viewers, and he's the giant of the industry, the big dog on the block, the 800 pound gorilla in the news-slash-commentary universe. Those ratings wouldn't get him a Friday night slot on Fox's primetime network lineup, where similar ratings got Dollhouse sent to The Attic.

Me, I'd be very happy to have Joss still flying, even in a smaller 'verse. :)

Mike

Work is the curse of the Drinking Class.
- Oscar Wilde

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:17 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST


I'd love to see Dr Horrible as a weekly show. With the success of Glee I'd imagine the musical genre quite in at the moment. However I don't imagine that would happen.

Creatively speaking the best thing Joss could do is something completely new. Always the perfect impetus for creativity.

Would be awesome to see Joss spread his wings and try something non sci-fi or supernatural related.... Something similar to Northern Exposure in mood. He'd be great at a large ensemble piece.


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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:50 PM

RUTTINMECHANIC


In my wildest dreams, FX asks Joss Whedon straight up if he will start making Firefly again for them and he says yes. Then all of the cast members drop what they are doing to come and do this show. And I'd also like to be the king of all Londinium and wear a shiny hat.

Actors are people with jobs, you don't just quit your job to go back to one that you got fired from. Maybe you do if the money was good enough or you really liked that job, but bottom line is that as much as I want Firefly to come back, I just don't think that it will. Don't get me wrong, I'm hopeful, always. But I'm also a realist, so I'll just keep my fingers crossed and wait like everyone else.

You can't take the sky from me.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 5:57 PM

TECHTREKKER

My days of takin ya seriously are certainly comin to a middle


Who cares if the actors are freed up?!?! Do a couple of made for FX movies to re-start the series. KEEP US FLYIN!!!!!!!!

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:03 PM

RUTTINMECHANIC


That certainly would be the way to go about it. Actors from TV usually seem to have the extra time to do a movie here and there.

You can't take the sky from me.

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Wednesday, January 20, 2010 6:15 PM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


And don't forget, they could also do miniseries, AND show the episodes of Firefly AND the Big Damn Movie as tie-ins. Their geek cred would thus be strong... :)

But yes, while I don't expect any of the crew to drop what they're doing and rush back, I could see some sort of movie or miniseries being workable.

And if Joss wants to go off in a completely different direction, that's fine too. I tried Dollhouse, found it wasn't for me, but I'll still try anything Joss wants to make. Maybe he'll hit the marks for me, maybe not, but it's sure a fun ride to try!

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 10:35 AM

BLACKOUTNIGHTS


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
... despite the love many have for demonizing Fox - they canned the show because it wasn't pulling ratings high enough to make it a viable show. They're in the business of making money, not placating and/or screwing Joss fans just because.

There is, like it or not, a ceiling on his fanbase. The fanbase is big enough to make a cable show a hit - but not a network one.



Don't misunderstand me, I think the network did a dandy thing by not only purchasing Firefly, but also extending Dollhouse for a second season when there was every reason to cancel it after the first.

You're right, those are business decisions pure and simple and I don't have a problem with that.

However, when corporate heads start meddling with the story because they think it'll work better as they see it is an entirely different matter. Sometimes their tinkering actually works, but more than often often, it doesn't. Example - changing the Firefly pilot and giving 48 hours to come up with a new script.

Do they have a right to do that? Absolutely. Should they? Probably not. Market it and broadcast it and leave the rest up to the show crew.

I don't know whether Whedon's ideas will work on networks outside of say, the Syfy channel. Most of the series are detective-type themed. Come to think of it, it's the same for regular networks.

I wonder how much viewer base has been lost to the video game industry.

Oh well, back to World of Warcraft.

"I aim to misbehave."

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:12 PM

PEACEKEEPER

Keeping order in every verse


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And don't forget, they could also do miniseries, AND show the episodes of Firefly AND the Big Damn Movie as tie-ins. Their geek cred would thus be strong... :)


If I had my way, it would be to re-run the original 14 eps,which would tie in to a brand new 8 eps that would finish the series off as originally intended.(and I realise there would have to be some explanation of the age difference).Then re-run the BDM, and then------????

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!

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Thursday, January 21, 2010 1:26 PM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yes, Fox did indeed cancel Firefly AND Dollhouse. But you know what else, people? Fox ALSO was the only network to BUY Firefly or Dollhouse, and the only way we ever got to see them in the first place. Nobody ever commends them for that, do they?

And they took a chance on Firefly because Joss had a couple of hits on his hands with Buffy and Angel. BUT - and isn't there always a "but"? - remember that what was a hit for the fledgling WB network wouldn't have qualified as a hit for Fox, CBS, ABC, or NBC. As has been pointed out, there's a large gulf of difference between the ratings required for a hit on a major network and what passes for a hit on cable.


The way I hear the story told Fox was really hyped up about Joss's success with Buffy and Angel. Since Joss was working with Fox Studios, Fox Network was giving right of first refusal to buy anything Joss came up with. So, they bought Firefly on the Buffy and Angel hype without any concern about what they were actually buying. Then they got the pilot and were not at all impressed. They started giving Joss notes and getting him to alter the show. Sorry but I don't see that as something that should be praised. They were mindless fools.

The Dollhouse story seems to somewhat follow the same mold. They didn't like Firefly, but the DVDs had a decent success for them. They were willing to give Joss another chance and this time they were basing it on Firefly's DVD success. So, when they got the poor ratings this time around they decided to misinterpret them again and assume the DVDs would sell like hot cakes. Somehow I doubt that worked out for them.

If Fox wants to be praised it would sure help if they'd look at a show and decide if they want it. Not a director. Not a producer. Not the writers. Not an actor or actress. Look at the show itself and base decisions on that.

If they had done that of course they likely would have passed on Firefly. My hope and assumption is that some other network would have seen the potential and picked it up.

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Friday, January 22, 2010 11:50 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)


Quote:

Originally posted by peacekeeper:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
And don't forget, they could also do miniseries, AND show the episodes of Firefly AND the Big Damn Movie as tie-ins. Their geek cred would thus be strong... :)


If I had my way, it would be to re-run the original 14 eps,which would tie in to a brand new 8 eps that would finish the series off as originally intended.(and I realise there would have to be some explanation of the age difference).Then re-run the BDM, and then------????

Peacekeeper---keeping order in every verse!!!



Yeah, I think I like your way. Sounds like a plan!

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Monday, January 25, 2010 5:29 AM

POLYMER


Maybe we can get firefly back. All the stuff that happens before the movie :O

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Monday, January 25, 2010 1:24 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Ok, I just have to correct the OP on the title name. It's Joss Whedon, one D. I don't mean to sound picky but it bugs me when people spell his name in-correctly.

<<<"You want to rule the world. What you don't understand is, there is no world anymore, only corporations.">>> Dr Evil's #2

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Monday, January 25, 2010 2:33 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!







The T.Rex they call JANE!


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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:12 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Good points by all regarding our BDH, but Zeek makes for a strong case.

Fox saw dollar signs based the success of Buffy and Angel rather than look at the show to see if they wanted to support it (I'm pretty sure the same is true for JJ Abrams with Fringe).

Yes, Fox did buy the rights to the TV show Firefly and put it on air in the first place but they absolutely threw a monkey wrench into the pot and screwed things up royally. With Dollhouse, they had Eliza under contract and, well the rest is history. So I agree with Zeek that Fox went shopping with their eyes closed and then complained when they didn't like the color of the sweater they bought.

BTW the Big Bang Theory took a shot at Fox and Rupert Murdoch in yesterday's episode of TBBT.
Sheldon and Leonard were in the car and here's how it went:

S: "Oh, I have a good game for you. List the worst villian from these - Darth Vader or Rupert Murdoch."

L: "Rupert Murdoch?, why him?"

S: "Because he owns Fox and they cancelled Firefly."

I busted out laughing way out loud that my niece looked at me funny. I told her it was an inside joke and left it at that (I tried showing her Firefly once). Imagine my delight at the mere mention of this gem. The writer/co-producer of the show Bill Prady, from what I understand, is a California nerd, hence the tone of the show and the casting of Summer as a guest star and now this delicious tidbit.


SGG

Tawabawho?

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:20 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
Quote:

Originally posted by Kwicko:
Yes, Fox did indeed cancel Firefly AND Dollhouse. But you know what else, people? Fox ALSO was the only network to BUY Firefly or Dollhouse, and the only way we ever got to see them in the first place. Nobody ever commends them for that, do they?

And they took a chance on Firefly because Joss had a couple of hits on his hands with Buffy and Angel. BUT - and isn't there always a "but"? - remember that what was a hit for the fledgling WB network wouldn't have qualified as a hit for Fox, CBS, ABC, or NBC. As has been pointed out, there's a large gulf of difference between the ratings required for a hit on a major network and what passes for a hit on cable.


The way I hear the story told Fox was really hyped up about Joss's success with Buffy and Angel. Since Joss was working with Fox Studios, Fox Network was giving right of first refusal to buy anything Joss came up with. So, they bought Firefly on the Buffy and Angel hype without any concern about what they were actually buying. Then they got the pilot and were not at all impressed. They started giving Joss notes and getting him to alter the show. Sorry but I don't see that as something that should be praised. They were mindless fools.



The botched their handling of it, yes. But I don't see how this changes the fact that we wouldn't have had the show AT ALL had they not given it a chance - even if it was a slim chance.

Quote:

The Dollhouse story seems to somewhat follow the same mold. They didn't like Firefly, but the DVDs had a decent success for them. They were willing to give Joss another chance and this time they were basing it on Firefly's DVD success.


This is just incorrect, though. They didn't come to Joss at all. Dushku had a development deal with them, and they were excersizing it - but they let her choose her showrunner. She chose Joss, who then came up with the concept just for her.

Quote:

If Fox wants to be praised it would sure help if they'd look at a show and decide if they want it. Not a director. Not a producer. Not the writers. Not an actor or actress. Look at the show itself and base decisions on that.

If they had done that of course they likely would have passed on Firefly. My hope and assumption is that some other network would have seen the potential and picked it up.



A hope and assumption that doesn't have much basis in reality. The other networks greenlight scifi shows even less often that Fox. Had it not been for Fox, none of us would be here talking about the show we love - as it very likely never would have existed.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 7:24 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:
Good points by all regarding our BDH, but Zeek makes for a strong case.

Fox saw dollar signs based the success of Buffy and Angel rather than look at the show to see if they wanted to support it (I'm pretty sure the same is true for JJ Abrams with Fringe).



Every single show is made for dollar signs - you're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. Yes, creators have a more creative stake - but the networks do not ever greenlight a show just becuase they think it might be good - they could care less about quality - it's all about the bottom line.

Quote:

Yes, Fox did buy the rights to the TV show Firefly and put it on air in the first place but they absolutely threw a monkey wrench into the pot and screwed things up royally. With Dollhouse, they had Eliza under contract and, well the rest is history. So I agree with Zeek that Fox went shopping with their eyes closed and then complained when they didn't like the color of the sweater they bought.


So again - who cares HOW they picked it? Would you rather they had looked first, said no, and we never got ANY Firefly?

Personally, I don't see that as a better option.



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 8:22 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
The botched their handling of it, yes. But I don't see how this changes the fact that we wouldn't have had the show AT ALL had they not given it a chance - even if it was a slim chance.


You're speculating that no one would have wanted it. We can't be sure one way or another, but if Fox thought Joss was a big money pinata then there's a decent chance another network would have the same idea. Especially considering they had right of first refusal and jumped on it. When the first buyer pounces there's a decent chance that somewhere down the line another buyer would be interested. Sure the show might have had a lower budget, but it wasn't the CGI or sets that hooked me.

Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
This is just incorrect, though. They didn't come to Joss at all. Dushku had a development deal with them, and they were excersizing it - but they let her choose her showrunner. She chose Joss, who then came up with the concept just for her.


I didn't say they came to Joss. They did greenlight his show though. I really doubt Eliza could have made up anything she wanted and had a guaranteed greenlight. They even mentioned in their renewal reasoning that Firefly sold well on DVD. So, it was on their mind one way or another.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 8:41 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I really doubt Eliza could have made up anything she wanted and had a guaranteed greenlight.



Since no one said that.... yeah, disbelieving it would make sense....


And yes, it's speculation that it wouldn't have been picked up otherwise - just as it's speculation that it would have. But my speculation is based on the patterns shown by the other networks, and not on wishful thinking.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:17 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
And yes, it's speculation that it wouldn't have been picked up otherwise - just as it's speculation that it would have. But my speculation is based on the patterns shown by the other networks, and not on wishful thinking.


How many vampire shows were on the air when Buffy and Angel were picked up? Clearly their existence is impossible due to your flawless logic.

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Tuesday, February 9, 2010 9:46 AM

STORYMARK


You really, really don't like people disagreeing with you, do you? Because you keep throwing out stupid straw man arguments every time.

When Buffy was picked up, Forever Knight had just finished it's run (and thus was airing while Buffy was being developed). The Hunger was on then as well, as well as the British vampire series Ultraviolet. Also factor in that this was the tail end of the mid-90's vampire craze kicked off by Interview With The Vampire, AND Buffy being a well-known (if not well loved) movie, and only a fool (or someone who runs his mouth without doing their homework) would argue there were no other vampire shows at the time. When Angel was picked up.... Buffy was on the air.

As a matter of fact, there has been at least one vampire-related TV series on the air every year for the last two or three decades, with the odd non-vampire year snuck in on rare occasion. So, vampire shows do have a fairly solid track record. And just to head you off, yes, there has also been a space-based show of some sort on for that timeframe, but A) virtually none of them were network based (whereas most of the vampire ones, save FK, were) and B) almost all of them were based on existing properties, and thus had an established fanbase to draw from (which I'll point out again - Buffy had going for it to a degree).


I didn't say it was impossible (that would be your straw man). I said it was unlikely - and as I pointed out, I'm gauging this on precedent; which is not proof, but it is a better indicator that "because Zeek really really really thinks so". Precedent can be broken, but in the absence of other evidence, that's all there is.

So, before you go attacking my logic (with nonsensical comebacks to boot), try applying a little of your own. Because you've presented no logically reasoned argument - other than YOU'RE sure someone woulda bought it.... just because you are. Sorry, but your gut is hardly that compelling as evidence.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:04 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


You' re right that the networks (ABC, CBS, NBC and now Fox) rely heavily on ratings and how that affects the landscape re: cashy-money.

But Fox did snap up Firefly, basically because, as aforementioned, dollar signs played a big part in their decision. I say, without hesitation, that had Fox dropped the ball on FF, one of the other network '800 lb. gorillas' would have pulled the trigger.

But we will never truly know that now. Bottom line is that Fox gambled on both FF and Dollhouse both because of JW's prior successes and their 'vision' of striking gold. The FF DVD sales only proved to fan the flames of greed, particularly when it came to Dollhouse decision making. Critically acclaimed shows have no place, within the grand scheme of things, in the land of network avarice (see FF, My So Called Life, Jericho, Joan of Arcadia and Studio 60).

Fox had quite a bit invested in FF, as with any show they put on the air, but that they felt could be improved upon - namely by them. So they made a few suggestions. One thing that they did not foresee in their infinite wisdom, just how much the true fans loved their heroes. The DVD sales showed them.

My argument has to do more with a network giving it's shows support and backing. FF was treated like a bastard child; what with preempting, poor scheduling and creative meddling. It's been said that Firefly was a show ahead of it's time, not for us - the true fans, but, as far as I'm concerned, for those Fox execs who, by their actions, had no clue.

My criticism is aimed at those that thought Firefly needed fixing. I don't care who did the picking, or why, as long as we got our BDH. It's my contention it would have happened regardless.

Tawabawho?

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 7:26 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
You really, really don't like people disagreeing with you, do you? Because you keep throwing out stupid straw man arguments every time.

When Buffy was picked up, Forever Knight had just finished it's run (and thus was airing while Buffy was being developed). The Hunger was on then as well, as well as the British vampire series Ultraviolet. Also factor in that this was the tail end of the mid-90's vampire craze kicked off by Interview With The Vampire, AND Buffy being a well-known (if not well loved) movie, and only a fool (or someone who runs his mouth without doing their homework) would argue there were no other vampire shows at the time. When Angel was picked up.... Buffy was on the air.

As a matter of fact, there has been at least one vampire-related TV series on the air every year for the last two or three decades, with the odd non-vampire year snuck in on rare occasion. So, vampire shows do have a fairly solid track record. And just to head you off, yes, there has also been a space-based show of some sort on for that timeframe, but A) virtually none of them were network based (whereas most of the vampire ones, save FK, were) and B) almost all of them were based on existing properties, and thus had an established fanbase to draw from (which I'll point out again - Buffy had going for it to a degree).


I didn't say it was impossible (that would be your straw man). I said it was unlikely - and as I pointed out, I'm gauging this on precedent; which is not proof, but it is a better indicator that "because Zeek really really really thinks so". Precedent can be broken, but in the absence of other evidence, that's all there is.

So, before you go attacking my logic (with nonsensical comebacks to boot), try applying a little of your own. Because you've presented no logically reasoned argument - other than YOU'RE sure someone woulda bought it.... just because you are. Sorry, but your gut is hardly that compelling as evidence.


I have problems with people who think thier opinions are the only valid ones.

I never said anything about network TV. So, the example is pretty much valid. Thanks for backing up that there were few vampire shows on the air just like there were few scifi shows.

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 8:51 AM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by Shinygoodguy:


My argument has to do more with a network giving it's shows support and backing. FF was treated like a bastard child; what with preempting, poor scheduling and creative meddling. It's been said that Firefly was a show ahead of it's time, not for us - the true fans, but, as far as I'm concerned, for those Fox execs who, by their actions, had no clue.




Firefly was a Bastard child. This is why Fox:

Skipped the pilot episode initially(playing it last in the series....?..)

skipped episodes, and episodes out of order

didn't promote it properly(until after it was confirmed canceled, then the pilot was promoted like crazy....stupid right?)

Got decent Nielson ratings(5.7...higher than the first season of the X-Files) but still Fox couldn't wait to shut down the fucking show.
----------------------------------------------------
It all adds up to a monumental blunder on the behalf of Fox.

"Fox never got the show, it was a bad match"
Joss Whedon

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 10:16 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:

I have problems with people who think thier opinions are the only valid ones.



That's quite funny, since I never said that, even stipulated that it was speculation (you do realize that when someone says they're speculating, by the very nature of the word - they're NOT claiming it as fact...?)and you were the one that threw a temper tantrum because someone dared to disagree with your opinion - which you clearly think is the only one.

But at least I backed my opinion with evidence, which you continue not to do.

Quote:

I never said anything about network TV. So, the example is pretty much valid. Thanks for backing up that there were few vampire shows on the air just like there were few scifi shows.


You never specified, thus leaving yourself a way to backtrack regardless of what I said. Which is immaterial, since I addressed both the network and cable outlets.

And you implied that there were no vampire shows at the time. That "few" thing is just more backpedaling/goalpost changing.

So, no, your example isn't really valid - as you didn't even provide one, you just asked a rhetorical question designed to leave you an out no matter the response.

But you clearly think YOUR opinion IS the only true one (again, without any actual evidence) - and have made it clear you really don't like being challenged, because you can't stand up to it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 12:20 PM

ZEEK


I'm not going to go waste my time researching the number of scifi shows on the air at the time firefly was being considered. It's a waste of time. I don't even think it was a big consideration in the network's mind to begin with. The evidence I provided is Fox was the first network to have a chance to air Firefly and they took it. When you go 1 out of 1 that's very strong odds. Nothing you've said suggests that the very next studio to get a chance at "a new Joss Whedon show" would have passed.

So, if you're not convinced your opinion is the only correct one are you saying that's it perfectly valid for a person to believe that Firefly would have been picked up if Fox had passed on it?

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Wednesday, February 10, 2010 1:23 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
I'm not going to go waste my time researching the number of scifi shows on the air at the time firefly was being considered. It's a waste of time. I don't even think it was a big consideration in the network's mind to begin with. The evidence I provided is Fox was the first network to have a chance to air Firefly and they took it. When you go 1 out of 1 that's very strong odds. Nothing you've said suggests that the very next studio to get a chance at "a new Joss Whedon show" would have passed.



I never said it proves it, no. But suggest - yes it does, by precedent. Which is not concrete, as I've said - but it's still more than your say-so.

Sorry if the notion of doing a little research vexes you so (took me all of 3 minutes and google, but whatever) - but it doesn't change the fact that I at least presented facts to back my opinion - and all you did was cite your opinion to back your opinion.

Quote:

So, if you're not convinced your opinion is the only correct one are you saying that's it perfectly valid for a person to believe that Firefly would have been picked up if Fox had passed on it?


I already said it wasn't impossible - just unlikely based on known factors.

So, yes, it's possible, just as it's possible that it could come back as a show next season. - It's just not very likely. Which I keep saying....

So, flip side - can you admit that just maybe, based on all the trends and evidence, that no-one else would have picked it up?

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 5:21 AM

ZEEK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
So, flip side - can you admit that just maybe, based on all the trends and evidence, that no-one else would have picked it up?


Yes, it's possible. Just incredibly unlikely. We saw one network interpret the trends and they interpreted them the exact opposite of what you're suggesting. It's possible all the other networks would interpret the trends differently. It's just not likely.

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 7:26 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:

Yes, it's possible. Just incredibly unlikely.



Based on what evidence????

I keep providing evidence, and you keep just giving your say-so. Hardly convincing.

Quote:

We saw one network interpret the trends and they interpreted them the exact opposite of what you're suggesting.


Except that the trends I was discussing don't apply in the same way to FOX. Because, as has been pointed out - Fox has always been more willing to try genre shows. Yes, most get cancelled quickly, but they have launched far more genre shows - specifically scifi shows (including space-based ones), than any other channel - network or cable - save the SciFi/Syfy channel (and even then it's close as Fox runs more original programming).

So, to say their decision displays the opposite of my conclusion is ill-informed at best.

So, again - what are you basing your analysis on? You have provided no examples (partially because you are too lazy to look - by your own admission, and partially I'd wager - because you don't HAVE any real evidence to back your position) other than to completely misinterpret those I have given.

So, based on WHAT exactly????

Oh, never mind - the answer is already clear. It's based on nothing but how much you love the show. And I love it too, but that doesn't make me oblivious to the trends and evidence that is available.



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:34 AM

OPPYH


I'll say one thing:

If Firefly were a first run syndicated show(Hercules, Xena) we wouldn't be having this conversation. It would have lasted 7 seasons easy.
But pride equals into it, and If Joss didn't think he could have made the show for less than $2.5 million an episode, then he probably couldn't have.
I however, tend to think the story, and characters would have outshined the lacking production value.
Agree?

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 8:58 AM

BYTEMITE


Hell, any possibility of a reboot (internet?), made with not much money but a shining production cast and crew is what's keeping MY hopes alive.

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Thursday, February 11, 2010 2:46 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by OPPYH:


If Firefly were a first run syndicated show(Hercules, Xena) we wouldn't be having this conversation. It would have lasted 7 seasons easy.



Oh, how that would have rocked....

And yeah, I think it would have risen above it's production values, much like say, Babylon 5.

Too bad the first run syndication market is all but dead. I think Legend of the Seeker is about it, and there were a few years there with none at all (at least in terms of hour long dramas).

Most of the shows I loved growing up were done for the syndication market. I miss those days.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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