How do you like your TV shows to End? by TheSomnambulist

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

How do you like your TV shows to End?

POSTED BY: THESOMNAMBULIST
UPDATED: Tuesday, March 2, 2010 13:12
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VIEWED: 2502
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Monday, March 1, 2010 8:04 AM

So what d'you all think?

Does a show that reaches a final purpose and concludes well with all threads attached do it for you...
Or
Do you like a show where the mystery remains and is open to individual interpretation.

If Firefly had ever managed to see itself through to mutiple seasons and had ended with a concise tightly sealed finale , would that have been ok for you or would you rather have had a series of disperate elements, left lingering, open to further interpretation...?

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Monday, March 1, 2010 9:22 AM

ZEEK

A little of both. I think a show should have a purpose and be working toward something. It should reach that point by the end of the series. However, I don't want to feel like the characters lives are over.

For instance Buffy ended well in that she wrapped things up and was left at a point where she should no longer need to follow the path she was on during the show's run. That's a good way to end.

Though I really liked Angel's ending too even though it was much more ambiguous. It just didn't make sense for him to ever stop fighting. Though I guess if the prophecy was fulfilled then it would make sense. That might have been an OK was to end it too.

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Monday, March 1, 2010 9:56 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Yeah Buffy and Angel are good examples. I liked the Buffy ending but I didn't like the Angel one. It was not extraordinary. Similar things had come Angels way before and he'd dealt with it. I felt a little cheated by that ending...

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Monday, March 1, 2010 11:30 AM

CYBERSNARK

It depends on the series, I've found.

American-made shows are mostly designed to be continuous; the whole point is to keep the how going as long as possible so as to keep making money continually (which is exactly why cancellations burn as hard as they do). I like to see ongoing arcs wrapped up, but not "guillotined" --leave a few minor threads for potential cross-media continuations and spinoffs.

Like on DS9; the Dominion War is over, the Big Bads are dead (or in Federation custody for War crimes), and many of the regulars move on. . . but DS9 itself still exists, new crises/arcs are on the horizon (the Reconstruction of Cardassia, the new balance of power, Bajor's then-unresolved application to the Federation, the loss of the Kai, a Klingon Revolution/attempted coup, a potential Dominion Civil War. . .), and the novels went ahead and introduced a gang of new and interesting characters to replace those who've left (Shar [the Andorian outcast and Nog's new partner in mischeif], Ro Laren [the ex-Maquis Bajoran militia Lt.], Cenn Deska [the by-the-book slightly-bigoted Bajoran liaison], Treir [the Orion femme fatale], Vaughn [the former SI agent turned Commander], Tenmei [pilot, party-girl, and Vaughn's estranged daughter], Taran'atar [the Jem'Hadar "ambassador"], etc).

Of course, I'm also a fan of Japanese anime, which tends to be designed for limited runs of 13, 26, or 52 episodes. In those cases, I like to see everything resolved --even if it means almost everyone dies. Though I do have a personal fondness for happy endings and the occasional flash-forward to "happily ever after" (where the young protagonists are now married adults and their children are readying to take up their own Quests. . .).

Often, a successful show will be "renewed" (i.e., the creators invited to make another show), but this will simply be another self-contained ##-episode chunk, with its own arc and new characters. Anything that gets picked up from earlier series isn't an "arc" so much as a revisiting --it tends to arise spontaneously without any foreshadowing or deliberate dramatic irony.

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We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, March 1, 2010 11:39 AM

CHRISISALL

I'm a fan of mini-series, or limited series. I like a STORY, not an excuse for continuous work.
I want an ENDING, dammit!!!
Like Buffy, STTNG, The Prisoner, Stargate: Atlantis, etc.
This Lost In Space, Space 1999, Earth 2, Invasion, Angel crap makes all green-ish.

The final Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Monday, March 1, 2010 11:56 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
A little of both. I think a show should have a purpose and be working toward something. It should reach that point by the end of the series. However, I don't want to feel like the characters lives are over.

For instance Buffy ended well in that she wrapped things up and was left at a point where she should no longer need to follow the path she was on during the show's run. That's a good way to end.

Though I really liked Angel's ending too even though it was much more ambiguous. It just didn't make sense for him to ever stop fighting. Though I guess if the prophecy was fulfilled then it would make sense. That might have been an OK was to end it too.

That sums it up perfectly, in my opinion. Buffy and Angel are two of my all-time favorite series-enders. Buffy, because it wraps up so nicely, and she finally gets to be a "real girl" for a while, and Angel, because it's left entirely up to you, the viewer, to decide how it comes out. I imagine Angel does indeed slay the dragon, but have my doubts about Gunn making it through - he was torn up plenty, AND he was mortal, unlike the others...

And I love the last episode of Angel for the feeling that it's an homage to The Godfather, with the settling-of-all-scores kind of feel to it.

Other series-enders I loved, and why. (And apologies for any spoilerishness if people haven't seen these; I'll allude to the ending without being explicit in the details)

The Shield: Vic Mackey basically goes to hell, in a manner of speaking. Everybody pretty much gets what they deserve, and Vic actually gets off easy.

The Wire: In a way, it ends up back where it began, metaphorically speaking. And in a way, it's a bit of a face-palm kind of ending. Have we learned nothing? Still one of the very finest shows to have ever graced a TV screen. It's not all doom and gloom, and it's not all sweetness and light; like life itself, it's a blend of comedy, romance, and tragedy.

Rome: A good ending, but not an altogether perfect ending. I want more. I want a movie, which is rumored to be in the works, based on Titus Pullo as the main character. We'll see.

Some that I *didn't* love:

The West Wing left me a bit "Meh..." It kind of just sputtered for the last couple seasons, and tried to end big, but not big enough. And I *really* wanted them to spin off Rob Lowe's character (Sam Seaborn) into a show called The California 47th, detailing his taking the House seat he'd inadvertently won, but he decided to pursue something else (The Lyons' Den), which was horrible. And short-lived.

Gilmore Girls. I can't really even remember the ending on that one. I'd pretty much checked out by Season 6, because (1) it sucked when the Palladinos left, and (2) the storylines were just repeating ad nauseum by then. So it ended, and I know I watched it end, but I honestly can't remember what happened.

Sopranos. Again, Meh. It was a gangster show; we DESERVED to see Tony either get whacked, or get made the Big Boss. Instead, we got the inspiration to a memorably shitty Hillary Clinton campaign commercial.

So, yeah - Buffy and Angel definitely wrapped things up, even when they didn't, because you were hooked, it was memorable, and you left feeling like you'd been on one hell of a ride, but now it was over, and that was okay, because your questions were answered and the ride was one you won't soon forget.

"I supported Bush in 2000 and 2004 and intellegence [sic] had very little to do with that decision." - Hero, Real World Event Discussions

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Monday, March 1, 2010 12:01 PM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.

Uh, not like Fox ended Firefly?

Yeah, figured we could all agree on that one.

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Yeah Buffy and Angel are good examples. I liked the Buffy ending but I didn't like the Angel one. It was not extraordinary. Similar things had come Angels way before and he'd dealt with it. I felt a little cheated by that ending...

Definitely liked how Buffy ended the run, but not so much with Angel.

I like the major storylines to be tied up, but enough material left where there could be more stories to tell if necessary. Think direct to dvd movies Joss!

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Monday, March 1, 2010 1:15 PM

STORYMARK

Depends on the show, and what type of storytelling they are going for.

Arc-based shows, that revolve around large stories and thier own mythology, should tie themselves up at the end.

More episodic shows, the done-in-one type, can leave many threads dangling.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, March 1, 2010 5:50 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.

I liked the way Buffy ended, but I loved Angel's finale. He had to constantly fight the good fight because there would never be an end to evil. Plus, he was striving for a redemption that was impossible to achieve no matter how much good he was able to do. The open ending was the only natural one for the show.

Another show that had a somewhat open ending but that I could also accept as a stopping point was Dead Like Me.

The worst finale of any show I have followed was Ron Moore's Galactica. It not only didn't resolve a lot of plot points it copped out with a "God did it" resolution.

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Monday, March 1, 2010 8:50 PM

BIGRICHARD

I love an ending that ties certain threads up, but leaves other threads completely open.

Buffy is a good example, you get a great bunch of stuff over with, and it's huge and brilliant, but at the same time, it's got a great openness to it, because you have no idea what'll happen next, and other things could, and it's nice to make up your own decisions.

Lost should finish something like that. Tie things up, and then leave other things open. Sure, might annoy some people, but they can't honestly answer all questions and finish it brilliantly, closing all arcs and saying "and this is what happened to everyone...and they were happy, and nothing bad ever happened to them again!"

Not a TV show, but I love the finale of Pan's Labyrinth. The whole movie sort of resolves itself, and it's an amazing finale. And yet it never tells you whether or not the fantasy was real. And I love that.

A bit of mystery keeps things interesting.

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Monday, March 1, 2010 9:45 PM

OLDGUY

What Would Mal do ?

how bout St Elsewhere? it all happened inside a snow globe and an autistic kid's mind

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 5:43 AM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
how bout St Elsewhere? it all happened inside a snow globe and an autistic kid's mind

Yeah I remember that ending. Through me for a loop as you didn't really get endings like that back then. Not the ending I would have liked for one of my fave shows at the time but I could live with it.

As for other shows I too like both styles of ending depending on what the show is.

Something like Castle (or Burn Notice) should end happily with all the plot points tied up and maybe the last scene is them getting a call to another murder and Castle bringing up the idea of another book. And with BN maybe Michael finally gets cleared and then they offer him his old job back but we never find out what his reply is.
On the other hand something like Lost or Supernatural should clear up a lot of the main points in the finale but leave threads dangling, some of which can be worked out through repeated viewing and some that are just left open with several possibilities so that people can make up their own verdict.

Buffy and Angel are perfect examples. Angel was overall a darker show so it should have the darker, inconclusive ending. He was always trying to work his way towards redemption for his past crimes and several times he figured that he would never be able to do enough.
Buffy on the other hand did nothing wrong and was born into the life so therefore it is fitting that she gets the happier ending and then has the choice to carry on or not.
Both perfect for the stories they told.

Blake's 7 is another example of a darker toned show that ended without the viewer really knowing what happened. Again it suited the show, it wouldn't have felt right if they had finally defeated ALL of the Federation to effectively become free people. They were criminals after all even if their cause was good.

If I had to pick though I would go for the open ended ending. Pan's Labyrinth (mentioned a couple of posts up) is a fine example in a movie. The Thing is another. Life On Mars (UK) another.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 6:03 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Very concise Lwaves.

Glad to see you mention Blakes 7. That left an impact on me. I couldn't tell you about any other episode within that show, but I recall very clearly the end to it.

Another one I thought was perfect in a bittersweet way was Quantum Leap. I adore that ending!

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 6:05 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
how bout St Elsewhere? it all happened inside a snow globe and an autistic kid's mind

....you're yanking my plank right ?

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 6:09 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Originally posted by chrisisall:

Quote:
I'm a fan of mini-series, or limited series. I like a STORY, not an excuse for continuous work.

Yeah you have a point here Chris - I've started to tire of the notion that a good show is going to be dragged out for six season so that it becomes merely a mediocre show.

You should like most British TV then. We specialize in mini series :D Six episodes a season is about as much as we can commit to here, so stories tend to be short and sweet.... Mostly...

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:12 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
how bout St Elsewhere? it all happened inside a snow globe and an autistic kid's mind

....you're yanking my plank right ?

You hadn't heard that? Not only did that show take place in the kids mind, but St Elswhere crossed over into several other shows, many of which crossed over into others.... there's a chart which cnnects about a third of all TV shows done EVER to that kid's imagination (including all, or most of the Whedon-verse shows). Some connections are tenuous at best, but it is amusing.

Google Tommy Westphall, or Tommy Westphall Universe, and you'll see.....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 7:36 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Quote:
Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Quote:
Originally posted by Oldguy:
how bout St Elsewhere? it all happened inside a snow globe and an autistic kid's mind

....you're yanking my plank right ?

You hadn't heard that? Not only did that show take place in the kids mind, but St Elswhere crossed over into several other shows, many of which crossed over into others.... there's a chart which cnnects about a third of all TV shows done EVER to that kid's imagination (including all, or most of the Whedon-verse shows). Some connections are tenuous at best, but it is amusing.

Google Tommy Westphall, or Tommy Westphall Universe, and you'll see.....

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

Cheers Storymark - Nope. I had never heard of that. I don't think I've ever seen an episode of St Elsewhere or Law and Order. But I checked out that link and saw the spreadsheet. Very funny stuff. Incredible amount of work gone into that - who are these people who have the time for such things. Wow!

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 8:39 AM

STORYMARK

Quote:
Originally posted by ecgordon:

The worst finale of any show I have followed was Ron Moore's Galactica. It not only didn't resolve a lot of plot points it copped out with a "God did it" resolution.

I was slightly disappointed, but on the other hand, I think fans built up an unfair expectation. Sure, the answer came down to "God did it".... but that's essentially what they show was saying from the very start. So, it may not have been the complex explanation we as fans wanted, it was entirely consistent with the what the show did from it's premiere.

Worst ending for me was Forever Knight - Everyone dies! Except the villain.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 12:44 PM

LWAVES

Quote:
Originally posted by TheSomnambulist:
Very concise Lwaves.

Glad to see you mention Blakes 7. That left an impact on me. I couldn't tell you about any other episode within that show, but I recall very clearly the end to it.

Another one I thought was perfect in a bittersweet way was Quantum Leap. I adore that ending!

I adore Blake's 7. Avon is one of the best scifi characters around. I recently started rewatching it and it does look very very dated (and cheap of course) but it still has that something that made it popular and made it a classic. Plus the Liberator is one of the coolest ships ever.

Quantum Leap was a show that you wanted to have a happy ending and maybe should have. But I think that it is better off for it to have finished the way it did. I don't mind admitting that my eyes swelled up as I watched the ending. For what could be called a 'light' show (no over-arcing plot, most episodes were stand alone ones, used just about every cliche it could) it was a brave ending that paid off.

"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 12:51 PM

CHRISISALL

Dark Angel had an almost Angel-like ending, although you could see how it might all work out.
Plus: immediate novels for closure!

The laughing Chrisisall

"I only do it to to remind you that I'm right and that deep down, you know I'm right, you want me to be right, you need me to be right." - The Imperial Hero Strikes Back, 2010

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Tuesday, March 2, 2010 1:12 PM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Originally posted by lwaves:

Quote:
Quantum Leap was a show that you wanted to have a happy ending and maybe should have. But I think that it is better off for it to have finished the way it did. I don't mind admitting that my eyes swelled up as I watched the ending. For what could be called a 'light' show (no over-arcing plot, most episodes were stand alone ones, used just about every cliche it could) it was a brave ending that paid off.

Right there with you Lwaves. One of the few times I welled up watching a TV show. The other being Northern Exposure (Which had an awful ending. In fact that was about the only ever crap episode in it's entire run!)

As for Quantum Leap - I remember my brother and I sat up afterwards talking about how they could make a TV movie where the 'Evil' Leaper (Remember her?) is overcome with remorse and goes back to the 40's to Rescue Sam... It was the only way we coud deal with it.

I once imagined getting involved in TV and pitching that very idea to Bellisario...

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