GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

No Joker in 'Batman 3'

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Monday, June 14, 2010 10:29
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Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:22 AM

WHOZIT

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 2:49 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!



How hard would it be to slap some clown make up on another actor and stick him on screen?







** ANYONE ** who thinks the Fed Gov't has done " all it possibly can " in response the Gulf Coast oil disaster, or who thinks Obama isn't lying to us all - I have no use for you. You deserve all the animosity and any vulgar "tone" directed your way. ( Anthony , that includes you, buddy. Sorry )

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 3:59 AM

CYBERSNARK


Well, on one hand, I could kinda see Alan in the role (based on his performance as Alpha in Dollhouse), but OTOH, Batman has a huge and varied rogues gallery; why would they need to bring back the Joker (especially after Ledger played it so definitively).

Bring on the Riddler, or Penguin, or Catwoman, (I'll admit that Mr. Freeze and Clayface would be kinda a stretch for Nolan's style, much as I'd like to see the Nolanverse "domino" away from reality).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 4:47 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Well, on one hand, I could kinda see Alan in the role (based on his performance as Alpha in Dollhouse), but OTOH, Batman has a huge and varied rogues gallery; why would they need to bring back the Joker (especially after Ledger played it so definitively).

Bring on the Riddler, or Penguin, or Catwoman, (I'll admit that Mr. Freeze and Clayface would be kinda a stretch for Nolan's style, much as I'd like to see the Nolanverse "domino" away from reality).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

Alan as the "Riddler"?

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 5:52 AM

BYTEMITE


In regards to the Riddler, I humbly suggest that any day-glo lime-green leotards with a male cameltoe be thrown IMMEDIATELY in the dumpster.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:13 AM

PIRATENEWS

John Lee, conspiracy therapist at Hollywood award-winner History Channel-mocked SNL-spoofed PirateNew.org wooHOO!!!!!!


Why not use this official script for Batman 3, where Robin is the Riddler and he works for the president of the United States to commit false flag terrorism against USA, so Batman assassinates the president of USA and kills the entire White House administration?
http://www.archive.org/details/911TruthInBatmanTheDarkKnight

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:22 AM

BYTEMITE


Ugh, Robin. Batman is one of the cooler comic book heroes, but Robin has got to be the worst sidekick ever.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 6:33 AM

LWAVES


I love the Batman Begins and Dark Knight but if Robin was brought in then I might have to seriously consider whether I'd want to watch the third one. Batman should always be a loner, it's part of who he is.

I'm glad there's no Joker. Who would really want to fill Ledger's shoes?
As stated there are plenty of other villains out there that could fit. My money is on a return by Two-Face and that he survived his fall at the end of Dark Knight.



"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 7:20 AM

CYBERSNARK


Actually, I think adding Robin (eventually, after Batman has had time to establish himself [i.e., after Nolan's "trilogy"]) would be a good thing, especially with how Batman Begins focused on how Ra's Al Ghul's training made the Batman.

Remember that (despite what you might remember from the Age of Camp), Robin isn't some perpetually-cheerful fun-loving teen sidekick --he's a lost, angry, deeply-troubled, and dangerously obsessed apprentice. He sees his parents murdered, and begins to go down the same path Bruce went down (and which Bruce regrets, given how much it has cost him), so Bruce tries to save him (by "training" him while secretly undermining him to keep him out of harm's way and make him get over his loss).

Thing is, Robin doesn't want to be protected, he wants to hurt someone. This isn't the kid who goes to soda shoppes and saturday matinees; this is the kid who wakes up in the middle of the night, and attacks a punching bag until his knuckles bleed. This is the kid who pushes himself until he breaks, then keeps pushing.

Robin's quest to win Batman's approval could easily carry an entire movie. (While Batman keeps giving him useless drudge-work like watching a building's back door for seven hours, or searching through an entire filing cabinet of papers to find a credit card bill that links someone to a mob fence --meanwhile the bastard who killed his parents is still out there somewhere.)

Remember that the first Robin's career ended with him storming out of the Cave after a falling-out. It was only after doing some harsh growing up that he patched things up with Bruce and created the Nightwing identity (because, while he had come to respect Bruce, he still couldn't work with him).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 9:43 AM

MINCINGBEAST


Robin is boring, because teen angst is boring. Moreover, the Dark Knight isn't ready to play daddy yet.

I'd love to see an updated Riddler. Throw in some Oedipal overtones (remember how dude's trouble started in the first place), emphasize how riddles are inherently unanswerable and reveal the break down of signification, and turn the male-camel-toe up to 11. Rad!

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 10:37 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Actually, I think adding Robin (eventually, after Batman has had time to establish himself [i.e., after Nolan's "trilogy"]) would be a good thing, especially with how Batman Begins focused on how Ra's Al Ghul's training made the Batman.

Remember that (despite what you might remember from the Age of Camp), Robin isn't some perpetually-cheerful fun-loving teen sidekick --he's a lost, angry, deeply-troubled, and dangerously obsessed apprentice. He sees his parents murdered, and begins to go down the same path Bruce went down (and which Bruce regrets, given how much it has cost him), so Bruce tries to save him (by "training" him while secretly undermining him to keep him out of harm's way and make him get over his loss).

Thing is, Robin doesn't want to be protected, he wants to hurt someone. This isn't the kid who goes to soda shoppes and saturday matinees; this is the kid who wakes up in the middle of the night, and attacks a punching bag until his knuckles bleed. This is the kid who pushes himself until he breaks, then keeps pushing.

Robin's quest to win Batman's approval could easily carry an entire movie. (While Batman keeps giving him useless drudge-work like watching a building's back door for seven hours, or searching through an entire filing cabinet of papers to find a credit card bill that links someone to a mob fence --meanwhile the bastard who killed his parents is still out there somewhere.)

Remember that the first Robin's career ended with him storming out of the Cave after a falling-out. It was only after doing some harsh growing up that he patched things up with Bruce and created the Nightwing identity (because, while he had come to respect Bruce, he still couldn't work with him).



You make some good points and maybe something that could be addressed in a seperate movie or franchise but not in this one. At least then I have the option of ignoring it but with this series I'll have to watch it to see how the story plays out.
As you say when Nolan has finished his 'trilogy' then as far as I'm concerned the story is done with. IMO I don't think that anyone could continue it in the same way and still make it faithful and good enough. We'd probably end up with the same situation as the earlier Batman movies - Burtons two movies were fantastic as darker comic book style movies, the following two films sucked, which oddly enough were the ones that brought Robin into the story but it wasn't all his fault.
When Nolan is done I hope someone has the sense to leave the films alone but they probably won't.

Didn't Nolan also say when he was making Begins that he'd never use Robin? Let's hope he sticks to it.
And for the record I never really liked Robin in the comics either so I mainly read the ones without him.



"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Saturday, June 5, 2010 1:03 PM

CYBERSNARK


Ah, but which Robin? We're on our fourth now (fifth if you count Stephanie).

Dick Grayson: Original Robin, eventually became Nightwing, currently operating as Batman after Bruce Wayne's (assumed) death.

Jason Todd: Second Robin, killed by the Joker. Eventually "resurrected" as an alternate-universe copy, under the Red Hood identity. Created the Red Robin identity, then ended up in prison on multiple counts of manslaughter.

Tim Drake: Third Robin, current Red Robin. Or possibly Doctor Mid-Nite.

(Stephanie Brown: Creator of the Spoiler identity. Dated Tim Drake, then took over for him as Robin when he was banned from crimefighting (and stepped down when he returned to duty). Current Batgirl.)

Damian Wayne: Son of Bruce and Talia Al Ghul. Trained as a child soldier by the League of Assassins. Current Robin (also the youngest Robin).

(And personally, I think Damian is the best Robin we've had yet, character-wise. He's just a complete jerk. And he has a British accent. He's like a little mini-Spike.)

BATGIRL: Stop staring at my chest.
ROBIN: What chest?

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 4:46 AM

BYTEMITE


Angsty or cheerful, he still pretty much has the exact same backstory as Bruce. Except this latest one, who I don't know anything about but he sounds like a Gary Stu, being the son of Bruce.

And L-wave makes a good point, about taking on and training Robin is somewhat out of character for Bruce.

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 11:02 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Ah, but which Robin? We're on our fourth now (fifth if you count Stephanie).

Dick Grayson: Original Robin, eventually became Nightwing, currently operating as Batman after Bruce Wayne's (assumed) death.

Jason Todd: Second Robin, killed by the Joker. Eventually "resurrected" as an alternate-universe copy, under the Red Hood identity. Created the Red Robin identity, then ended up in prison on multiple counts of manslaughter.

Tim Drake: Third Robin, current Red Robin. Or possibly Doctor Mid-Nite.

(Stephanie Brown: Creator of the Spoiler identity. Dated Tim Drake, then took over for him as Robin when he was banned from crimefighting (and stepped down when he returned to duty). Current Batgirl.)

Damian Wayne: Son of Bruce and Talia Al Ghul. Trained as a child soldier by the League of Assassins. Current Robin (also the youngest Robin).

(And personally, I think Damian is the best Robin we've had yet, character-wise. He's just a complete jerk. And he has a British accent. He's like a little mini-Spike.)



The only ones I know are Dick Grayson and Jason Todd. I've heard of Tim Drake but never read any of his comics. And wasn't there a young, female Robin in the excellent Dark Knight Returns?
My Batman comic knowledge comes from my teens and earlier (some many years ago) and once I started seeing more and more alternate universes and takes on what I considered to be established storylines and origins I gave up. I wanted Bats as the one I grew up with not some 'other' version. The fact that you say that the heroes swapped identities when required tells me I was right to stop.
I know part of the myth of these heroes is the myth itself, not the person behind it but I think they've taken it too far from what I've observed.

Just my thoughts.



"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Sunday, June 6, 2010 8:19 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Nolan said at one point that he despised Robin, so I don't think we have to worry about that.

I can't imagine a Batman franchise without Catwoman. If this is going to be the last of Nolan's franchise, I hope we see Miss Kyle.

[/sig]

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Monday, June 7, 2010 10:11 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Plenty of other Batman villians they can script into the movie. Sure the Joker is probably the best known, but there are other as well that would help make a great movie.

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Monday, June 7, 2010 12:42 PM

CYBERSNARK


Really, they kinda have to include Catwoman, after Lucius' foreshadowing throw-away line in Dark Knight (about how the armour would be good against cats). It's a dramatic necessity at this point.

And with Marone and the Russian both out of the picture, someone's gonna need to rise to the top of the Gotham City Mob. Oswald "The Penguin" Cobblepot is the logical choice, since he's really the only remaining Bat-villain who is strong enough to carry a movie, and who actually fits in Nolan's setting (Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, and Man-bat are right out, and I don't think anyone would take Bane seriously unless he has them to make him look sane by comparison).

He'd also make a good one to end the trilogy with, since he's the one underworld figure Batman can't touch (because he owns the best lawyers in Gotham). Once the Penguin takes control, a new status-quo would set in.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:22 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


"day-glo lime-green leotards with a male cameltoe be thrown IMMEDIATELY in the dumpster."

I seriously doubt Nolan will go for that, Schumacher maybe, but Nolan. I really like that he made Batman more in line with the original comic than the 60's Pow! Bam! version.

Bring on Alan as the Riddler. Of course, ya know that they (producers) will want to go with a big name (Robert Downey, Jr.?), but personally I think Alan could pull it off nicely. He should send Nolan a tape of Dollhouse.


SGG

Tawabawho?

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:54 AM

CYBERSNARK


Actually, I kinda like David Tennant for the Riddler. More hyperactive and flashy, like the Doctor (Alpha was more quietly chaotic).



-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2010 11:43 PM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Actually, I kinda like David Tennant for the Riddler. More hyperactive and flashy, like the Doctor (Alpha was more quietly chaotic).




I really like that idea and Nolan does cast Brits in his Batman films so it may be possible.

Alan would be a good choice.

I couldn't see Robert Downey Jr in the role though. Aside from possible Marvel and DC contractual wrangles I don't think he's manic enough. He's great at playing characters on the edge or just over but The Riddler is like the Joker, he's well over the line.



"The greatest invention ever is not the wheel. It's the second wheel." - Rich Hall

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Monday, June 14, 2010 10:29 AM

CLOCKWORKSPIDER


I love the thought of David Tennant as the Riddlier.

On a semi-related note, take a look at the Seventh Doctor's outfits sometime. Notice the question mark theme. Coincidence? I think not!

http://xkcd.com/311/ <==I'd go see it!

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