GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

'Wonder Woman' puts on pants

POSTED BY: WHOZIT
UPDATED: Friday, July 9, 2010 06:29
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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 12:55 PM

WHOZIT

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 1:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Since WW was ridiculous to begin with, I got no problem w/ her joining the 21st century.




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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 2:30 PM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.


It'll last for a while then she'll go back. Its happened before back in the early/mid 90s

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 3:35 PM

STORYMARK


I like it. Her old outfit was a bit on the ridiculous side. And they're priming the audience for a movie - and they're not likely to do the old outfit in a movie.

Plus, it's Joe Straczynski and Jim Lee behind the new suit, and I'm a fan of both.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 4:19 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Peulsar5:
It'll last for a while then she'll go back. Its happened before back in the early/mid 90s


Plus, y'know, Dan Didio (i.e., he has openly acknowledged that he intends to maintain the "status quo" wherever possible [witness the completely uneccessary resurrections of Hal and Barry ]).

It's also built into the concept that Diana intends to restore the original timeline.

I kinda like the new costume, though I don't think that giving someone a plot-driven makeover is the way to update a character (you do that by writing, not marketing). Though I'll admit I'm apparently in the minority who always saw Diana as a fairly well-adjusted normal girl. Apparently she's a lot more relaxed in the JLA comics than in her own title: I can totally see JLA Wonder Woman going clubbing on her night off, or watching TV, or flirting. Apparently the mainline WW readers expect her to be this totally hardcase warrior woman at all times.

Hell, that's Artemis' gig (when she's not being the Themysciran equivalent of Jayne, anyway).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 6:16 PM

BYTEMITE


Actually, I less imagine it's militant feminists, and more regular girls and women wondering how she doesn't fall out of her costume while fighting.

I for one am glad for pants. I've always felt sorry for her, I imagine she can get pretty cold.

It's not the best design ever, but it's also not the worst.

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Wednesday, June 30, 2010 7:37 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb



Oooo, tightpants!

No major complaints. I'd add more color to the pants, though. Maybe with some large faded stars.

Yeah, I can definitely see Morena wearing that.

I can dream.


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 2:55 AM

ZEEK


There are very few super heroes I can think of with practical outfits. I'm at the point where I expect a super hero to stand out because they're wearing something ridiculous. I don't see the point of making Wonder Woman's costume so low key. If they want to update it at least keep it flashy.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 3:38 AM

BYTEMITE


The gold and red isn't flashy enough?

But maybe it's something about the jacket, it could be construed as civilian looking.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 3:56 AM

BORIS


Tights are not pants

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 4:53 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Zeek:
There are very few super heroes I can think of with practical outfits.

The Bat-family is pretty good, usually involving kevlar, armoured plate, and tough fabrics. I'm especially fond of Cassie Cain's homemade Batgirl costume (black jeans, boots, black long-sleeved T-shirt with a bat-symbol drawn on in dye, black gloves, hand-stitched mask and cape, and a toolbelt), but Stephanie's current high-tech version is also cool for having visible armour/padding.

That's actually more revealing than her old Spoiler costume; that one covered her completely (full cloth mask)

Then of course, there's Superboy and Wondergirl, who kicked off the whole "jeans and T-shirt" fad (though they're invulnerable, so they don't really need armour).



There's also the current Blue Beetle, who wears actual armour.


-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 6:30 AM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Quote:

Originally posted by boris:
Tights are not pants


Even better!


--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek. -Tara Maclay

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 8:35 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I like it. Her old outfit was a bit on the ridiculous side. And they're priming the audience for a movie - and they're not likely to do the old outfit in a movie.

Plus, it's Joe Straczynski and Jim Lee behind the new suit, and I'm a fan of both.





Yes, but how are you with total retcon of the character? That's what JMS is working on. She will be taken out of the DCU continuity will have no past, no connection to the Justice League, any of the DC heroes, and will be a new fledgling hero just discovering her powers.

Horrible I say!



Quote:

Originally posted by RahlMaclaren:

Oooo, tightpants!

No major complaints. I'd add more color to the pants, though. Maybe with some large faded stars.





Lame. Jackets with rolled up sleeves went out in the 90s. Okay, lose the jacket and it wouldn't be that bad, but it is NOT the iconic costume she's always worn. That costume was designed to honor the nation that Wonder Woman was being sent to be an emissary to. Do they revamp the iconic costumes of Superman, Batman or the Flash? No. They may tinker with minor things, but they remain unchanged.

Oh, and when she hits people they will be branded with a "W" now. WTF?!? Is she the Phantom now? Zorro?

Ugh. I'll pass.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 10:42 AM

STORYMARK


The full on retcon seems a bit overboard, but I don't read the monthlies anyway, and either the story will be good enough to justify running with it, or it'll bomb and they'll re-retcon (de-retcon??) it right back out the door.

Quote:

Do they revamp the iconic costumes of Superman, Batman or the Flash? No. They may tinker with minor things, but they remain unchanged.



Well, yeah, they have. Superman Blue/Red. Armored Azrael/Batman (and many variations to the Bat-suit). And a key element is that those characters are wearing at least semi-practical outfits, and not one just a smidge away from lingerie.

Having a WW that looks like someone bedazzled a Baywatch costume isn't going to do much to give the character credibility in the modern age.



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 10:43 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Do they revamp the iconic costumes of Superman, Batman or the Flash? No.




-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 10:49 AM

STORYMARK


Ah, I beat you with the mention, but you one-upped me with the visual.

So I'll continue:



And while the Superman and Batman redesigns didn't fly, this is the original Flash costume:



The seemed to do okay by changing his.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 11:07 AM

CAVALIER


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Do they revamp the iconic costumes of Superman



As I recall, they killed him off at one point.

And now he is all better. It's just a marketing gimmick.

And this too shall pass...

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 11:50 AM

MSA


I just want to know how putting pants ON somehow makes her look trampy

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 11:52 AM

ATILLA


Seem clear that the outfit was meant for Morena...

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 12:38 PM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.


Quote:

Originally posted by MsA:
I just want to know how putting pants ON somehow makes her look trampy

It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.



EXCELLENT point, it doesn't. This is probably being done to draw attention to the character to drum up talk for a movie. I don't mind the costume, but the retcon stuff does bug me. I don't think messing with the origin of one of DC's "Big Three" (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman) is a good idea. These were the three characters that kept the company afloat during the lean years of the 40s and 50s when comics lost popularity or just got strange (read some Batmans from the late 50s) and most of the minor characters were just guests or back up stories. When the comic book resurgance began in the 60s, most of the dc characters got completely redone-The Flash went from Jay Garrack to Barry Allen, Green Lantern became Hal Jordan etc. But Superman was always the strange visitor from Krypton raised by the Kents, Batman was the masked playboy avenging his parents, and Wonder Woman was always the amazon princess sent to America. Minor details would change after the first Crisis (the only good one in my opinion) but the rest remained the same. As been pointed out earlier in the thread, they sometimes make radical changes for a particular storyline that might last as long as a year, but eventually they loop back around to their roots.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 12:40 PM

TRAVELER


I suspect this is because of the movie. The powers that be want an outfit that goes with today's trends.


http://www.imdb.com/mymovies/list?l=28764731
Traveler

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 12:43 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Peulsar5:
Quote:

Originally posted by MsA:
I just want to know how putting pants ON somehow makes her look trampy

To love someone is to see a miracle invisible to others.
--Francois Mauriac
It's fuzzy-minded liberal thinking like that that gets you eaten.



EXCELLENT point. I don't mind the costume, but the retcon stuff does. I don't think messing with the origin of one of DC's "Big Three" (Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman) is a good idea. These were the three characters that kept the company afloat during the lean years of the 40s and 50s when comics lost popularity or just got strange (read some Batmans from the late 50s) and most of the minor characters were just guests or back up stories. When the comic book resurgance began in the 60s, most of the dc characters got completely redone-The Flash went from Jay Garrack, Green Lantern became Hal Jordan etc. But Superman was always the strange visitor from Krypton raised by the Kents, Batman was the masked playboy avenging his parents, and Wonder Woman was always the amazon princess sent to America. Minor details would change after the first Crisis (the only good one in my opinion) but the rest remained the same. As been pointed out earlier in the thread, they sometimes make radical changes for a particular storyline that might last as long as a year, but eventually they loop back around to their roots.



Also worth keeping in mind that Superman and Batman sell. It's is an industry, and an ailing one at that, which makes a lot of it's actual profit from movie tie-ins. Wonder Woman hasn't been a consistent seller in a long time. Even the fondly-remembered TV show is more known for camp and cleavage than any quality - and those are tough to sell a big movie on alone these days. And they really want to get a movie made, so taking the comic in a direction that makes a film translation easier would be very appealing to them in a business sense.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 12:47 PM

CYBERSNARK


As this one will. From JMS himself: http://www.newsarama.com/comics/jms-talks-wonder-woman-100629.html

Quote:

So Diana's task now is to a) find out where, how and why the timeline was changed, b) who did it, c) if it can be undone, and d) stay ahead of the forces trying to kill her while e) helping as many of the surviving Amazons stay alive as possible, since they too are still being hunted.
Plus, as I've said before, Dan Didio. Don't worry, the original costume will be back by this time next year.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 1:27 PM

STORYMARK


You realize that Didio hold exactly as much power in the company as they guy who designed this new outfit?

It is nice to see that the retcon plot is not just an arbitrary retcon, and is instead tied to the plot, and seems designed to be undone.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 5:04 PM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
You realize that Didio hold exactly as much power in the company as they guy who designed this new outfit?

Yes, Dan Didio and Jim Lee are both Co-Publishers of DC comics, but I had the impression Lee is more concerned with the art than with the ongoing storylines, and Didio has said (on the record, before a convention room full of witnesses) that he believes comic book characters are Iconic --meaning that, whatever the story needs, they must always be reset to the "proper" status quo (which for him means silver age). I can't really see them working so well together if they didn't agree on that at least.

He's the one who had final say on bringing back Hal and Barry, and he even considered "fixing" Barbara Gordon and putting her back in the Batgirl suit before deciding that Oracle was a stronger character than Batgirl-I had been.

That said, however, the man definitely knows a good story when he sees one. If he's throwing his support behind this, it means he thinks it'll work. . . but eventually, Diana will return to her iconic roots.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Thursday, July 1, 2010 5:17 PM

CHRISISALL




Damn. And I thought the Superman Returns costume was bad....


The laughing Chrisisall


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Thursday, July 1, 2010 5:27 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Quote:


He's the one who had final say on bringing back Hal and Barry, and he even considered "fixing" Barbara Gordon and putting her back in the Batgirl suit before deciding that Oracle was a stronger character than Batgirl-I had been.

That said, however, the man definitely knows a good story when he sees one. If he's throwing his support behind this, it means he thinks it'll work. . . but eventually, Diana will return to her iconic roots.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



I get the feeling maybe Lee is there, with his more modern sensibility, to balance Didio's classic focus.

And I've no doubt that the origin will return - as I said, the story seems designed to bring it back to that anyway. But the costume I think will stay, or at least not be the old one, for a quite a while - especially if a move gets made.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, July 2, 2010 1:12 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
The full on retcon seems a bit overboard, but I don't read the monthlies anyway, and either the story will be good enough to justify running with it, or it'll bomb and they'll re-retcon (de-retcon??) it right back out the door.




I agree, but JMS is known for taking characters he writes for completely out of continuity so he can do as he pleases. Seems WW will be no exception.



Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Well, yeah, they have. Superman Blue/Red. Armored Azrael/Batman (and many variations to the Bat-suit). And a key element is that those characters are wearing at least semi-practical outfits, and not one just a smidge away from lingerie.

Having a WW that looks like someone bedazzled a Baywatch costume isn't going to do much to give the character credibility in the modern age.




Yes, and where are those costumes now? Defunct, gone, because fan outcry and fans dropping titles drove creative teams back to the iconic costumes that have been around for decades, in most cases longer than readers have been alive.

True the Red & Blue costumes of Supes were part of the story so I don't really count those as costume revamps because when they finally got past that silly storyline Supes was back in the tights we all remember.

The armor that Azrael wore I do not really count as Batman getting a costume change either. Azrael wore armor before briefly taking on the mantle of the Bat and it was natural for him to regress to armor as his mind started to slip. Batman's costume has remained unchanged with the small exceptions of the yellow oval around the bat disappearing from his chest and different artists takes on the utility belt and height of the ears on the cowl.

I imagine with all the issues that have plagued the WW title of late they feel a reboot will help stimulate sales. I think the opposite will occur. I predict a return to the iconic costume in less than two years.

As for her costume being just barely removed from "lingere" I disagree as that is a matter of opinion. Wonder Woman is an Amazonian warrior princess. She comes from an island of women and is proud of her body. There is nothing shameful about her costume or any less revealing that what other DC female heroes and villains wear, yet where is outcry to cover them up?

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

X.O. / Battalion O.I.C.



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

http://76thbattalion.proboards.com


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Friday, July 2, 2010 1:14 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
[






Yes, and where is that costume again? Oh yes, gone.

It was part of the storyline of Supes, a less than stellar one at that, and once it had served it's purpose it was gone.


__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

X.O. / Battalion O.I.C.



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html

http://76thbattalion.proboards.com


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Friday, July 2, 2010 2:35 AM

BORIS


Tights are not pants is something I find myself bleating regularly. Nothing I hate more than walking behind someone wearing tights as pants unless there's something over them that goes down to thigh level like a tunic or long shirt...I don't care how trendy it is you may as well wear your undies in public...actually there is something I hate more than people wearing tights as pants: people wearing their pants so low you can see crackage. ewww! Wonder woman is Hot...but TIGHTS ARE NOT PANTS! Put her in a funky pair of bootcut jeans and kickass boots.

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Friday, July 2, 2010 5:56 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:


Yes, and where are those costumes now? Defunct, gone, because fan outcry and fans dropping titles drove creative teams back to the iconic costumes that have been around for decades, in most cases longer than readers have been alive.



Cute that you had to excise the part of my post where I point out those other costumes didn't stick around so you could point out that they didn't stick around.

I specifically said they didn't stay. You said those costumes were NEVER changed, we merely pointed out the obvious fallacy in such a statement.

As for the rest.... matter of opinion. Your justification for her costume, and being "proud of her body" are simple rationalizations created by those who put her in a skimpy outfit in order to appeal to teen boys. Read some of the articles surrounding this, and other revamps in the past. One creative team wanted to make her breasts....plausible in size and THAT was vetoed..... for the sake of the character's integrity I'm sure.

Yes, her normal outfit IS more revealing than many of the other female heroes (such a question from you belies a little lack of knowledge, particularly odd since several examples have already been given in this very thread), and while some are more revealing, they are often joked about for their impracticality, both in the fan community and often in the comics themselves.

And this costume change, as with Superman, is tied to a story too.... so unbunch yer panties a little.


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Friday, July 9, 2010 6:29 AM

STORYMARK


Looks like she woulda had pants in Joss' version, too. His costume designer Tweeted this the other day:



"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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