A small problem I have with the BDM, just a small one. by zzetta13

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

A small problem I have with the BDM, just a small one.

POSTED BY: ZZETTA13
UPDATED: Wednesday, July 14, 2010 14:13
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 2003
PAGE 1 of 1

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 12:51 AM

Like the title says. There’s been this lingering thing with Serenity (the BDM) that has bothered me just a little. It’s the scene where in a few heartbeats the operative changes his whole perspective and attitude about killing Mal, River and Simon and even wiping out the whole crew of Serenity.

With the technology of the day it would have been very simple for anyone to hire a technical wiz kid ( or someone with highly developed skills in such things) and have them put together a fake or phony bit of video at portrays the Parliament as an evil controlling power.

To me the operative fell under the assumption that the bit of vid Mal sent over the airwave was authentic way too quickly.

I mean, here’s a guy that has killed dozens, maybe hundreds of folk, one for the simple reason that he said
“ Parliament” in front of River and Simon. Then he wipes out a whole village including a Shepherd and even children. Then takes the attitude, “Oh, sorry, I was wrong for killing all those people. I was just following orders.”

Even in the Firefly series, the HoB guys wipe out a whole security station just because they talked to “ the prisoners”. Seems you could have gotten yourself killed just for giving River a piece of gum.

IMO, if someone has been schooled, trained, and educated that in a fashion that tells them anything they do is right ( even at the point of murder- can you say brainwashed) then something as simple as watching a video isn’t going to change their thinking one bit.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Z

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:22 AM

JONGSSTRAW

I don't think that the video of the Reavers was the only factor in his conversion. During the entire movie he seems almost apologetic and regretful for his deadly actions. He says he "does what he has to do"...he says he knows "he's a monster", and he says "building a better world" with almost no confidence or believeablity of his own words....like it's all been drummed into his head by his taskmasters. I think he just got sick of believing the whole kill for the greater good crap. He respects Mal, I think he even likes and admires him. He saw how Mal was willing to sacrifice all, including the lives of his crew and friends for the cause he believed in. I think that impressed the Operative a lot. So when Mal spared his life ( and don't underestimate the power of that gesture ) he was more open to believe what Mal was telling him about the Alliance.

Mal goes through a similar introspective process, when at the beginning of the movie River replies back to him concerning the upcoming job "do you?" Then Mal says "this is what I do darling....(long pause of irony and soul-searching reality/guilt) this is what I do." He's not proud, he's not happy, he just has to do it, despite the lump in his throat. I think that helped take Mal to a higher level of social consciousness, the realization he was but a mere criminal, and he used the River situation as a form of personal redemptive therapy.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 1:36 AM

PENGUIN

I'm thinking maybe he's seen the video before as part of his operation background.

Makes you wonder why the Alliance didn't destroy the stupid thing!

King of the Mythical Land that is Iowa

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 2:41 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST

Well I think it's just cinematic shorthand. Of course it could be a fake and ideally you'd have the operative check things through thoroughly, but sometimes in films you just have to cut to the chase (so to speak) and remove unecessary information. It would bog down the flow to have such a scene, and really there's so much of this kind of 'abstract' logic going on anyway, you'd never get to the narrative.

Plus the operative having read up on Mal, would know that Reynolds is not the sort to go on a venture, so severe of purpose, without it having some truth to it.

Maybe...

Cartoons - http://cirqusartsandmusic.blogspot.com

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 2:41 AM

AVERYFINECOMPANION

I think they would keep it a secret, even from him. And I think it showed that the reavers are so bad that even someone as brainwashed as him could see that something is wrong and snap him out of it.

But if you go by the theory that Book too was an operative, what do you think made him change? Was he not as "into it" as the other one was?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 3:45 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
To me the operative fell under the assumption that the bit of vid Mal sent over the airwave was authentic way too quickly...

I mean, here’s a guy that has killed dozens, maybe hundreds of folk...

IMO, if someone has been schooled, trained, and educated that in a fashion that tells them anything they do is right ( even at the point of murder- can you say brainwashed) then something as simple as watching a video isn’t going to change their thinking one bit.

Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Joss misdirections us in the movie commentary: "For the hero to convince the bad guy that he is wrong, to me, is a lot more powerful than killing him." It's also a lot more unbelievable. I think the Operative will remain the same murdering badass he was the minute before he saw the Miranda video, but with a tiny change -- he will no longer blindly follow orders. He wants to talk with someone on Serenity and he can't if he follows like a robot his kill orders. Who does the Operative want to talk to? I don't think it's Mal.

At the end of the movie, the Operative didn't need to come out in the rain to say goodbye to Mal. That was a very unproductive conversation. Wet, too. Dangerous, also. An email to Mal would have handled whatever needed to be said. But if you like conspiracy theories, that big piece of Serenity that broke away at the very end wasn't an accident. And it wasn't Kaylee's fault or Mal's aerobatic maneuvering. The ship was sabotaged so it would have to turn around. The Operative walks up to the front door as a divergence. His men go around the back and cut through the hinge pin for the shutter door of the reactor cooling system.

In Serenity II, we get to find out what the Operative plans to do while a new shutter door is being fabricated for Serenity.

Obviously, that is not the opinion of most people who come to this site. The majority opinion is that the Operative will either resign his position or commit suicide or become a Shepherd like Book.

Those 3 options are deathly dull. Personally, I want the Operative in the next movie because he is a mighty badass warrior.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity", where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 5:28 AM

ZZETTA13

Z, conspiracy theorist extraordinaire.

Hello everyone! Dang, I didn’t know I would get the response to this thread so quickly. Thank you for all the input. I’m posting my respond to each of you separately.

Jongs- I see what you’re saying and I agree that the operative has respect for the captain ( History shows that commanders of opposing armies harbored high respect for one another) Still I do believe that the Operative was kept in the dark on many things. He is like the hunting hound, pointed in a certain direction and told to “go”.

Penguin- Good to see you my friend! Yepper, good point! I’m sure there was a “Blue Handed” guy in some lonely room somewhere, the operative sitting in a chair in front of a video screen. The HOB guy saying “ Watch this shit!” . Makes perfect sense that the “ Powers” would present this as nothing more than theatrics of a video game. I’m with you on this one.

TheSomnamb- You are exactly right! Editing is a big part of movie magic. So, somewhere out there, there should be 30 minutes of footage that shows when the Operative began to assume thinking for himself, and throw off the reins of being a terminator. I thank you for your insight and I agree. Maybe the footage will show up in the BDM sequel. You know there’s gonna be one. I’m putting on my River Tam and saying there will be. If only for the browncoat loyalists. Maybe a web production of some sort, Joss you listening?

Avery FC- Yeah, I’m right with ya. To me the Operative has been given a very narrow perspective on what is good, and what is not. Like in the black/white western tv days, where good guys wore a white hat and bad wore a black one. Plain and simple. Fact is the Operative was dressed in black in the final battle of the movie.

TWO- WOW! Very interesting and quite the conspiracy! More details then I would have posted but Hey, I’m sure Joss had a second script going just incase the Serenity movie had made a zillion dollars. I mean, we would have to assume that Whedon was prepared right?

Synopsis: Universal approaches JW …..

Universal-“ Hey Joss, great movie! It netted us zillions of profit! We’re ready to start filming the sequel!”

Joss- “ Hey guys, sorry. I never even thought of what’s coming next, Well except for a little show I’ll call Dollhouse…….”

I do think JW already has most of Serenity 2 written. I’m ready to see it!

Z

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:42 AM

IMNOTHERE

Quote:
Originally posted by zzetta13:
To me the operative fell under the assumption that the bit of vid Mal sent over the airwave was authentic way too quickly.

...but it was a major plot point that the Operative was a believer to an almost insane degree. With that mentality, proof/authenticity isn't an issue: he would either believe the video or reject it. If he'd rejected it in favor of his own beliefs, no amount of evidence or investigation would have changed that, and we'd have got to find out whether River could dodge bullets.

As others have pointed out, he'd also witnessed and been impressed by Mal's strength of conviction. Plus it's quite possible that he knew a lot of carefully censored snippets of the Miranda story which fell into place when he saw the video.

On a more mundane level: you'd expect 26th century government holograms to have some sort of authenticity check built in that an Operative could easily confirm, and had it been Star Trek instead of Firefly then Mr Exposition would have popped up and supplied some relevant technobabble about multiphasic encryption and embedded particles-of-the-week (or prononounced "Its a FAAAAAAAKE!!!" while munching on a bit of scenery).

I think the more worrying plot-hole is why the Alliance hadn't been able to send the cleaners into Miranda sometime in the preceding 10 years.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 7:53 AM

KWICKO

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." -- William Casey, Reagan's presidential campaign manager & CIA Director (from first staff meeting in 1981)

I think you're treading on political ground here. There are people who do covert stuff for a living, who follow orders and kill people, even when they KNOW they're doing it for agenda-driven purposes, NOT for the stated purposes that the rest of the world is told about.

I think what you saw was The Operative doing his job, doing it with all his heart, to the best of his abilities, and once the vid went out, there was no more point in doing the job. The job was over, so no point in carrying on with it or pretending that it was that important.

There were people involved in the firebombing of Dresden who fervently believed when they did the deed that it was the right thing, the strategic thing, because of all the war industry centered in and around the city. When it turned out that info was wrong, some of them just shrugged and turned their backs on war, their illusions shattered, the core of their beliefs shaken. This happens to some of the most die-hard believers in every war.

AURaptor's Greatest Hits:

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 20:32 To AnthonyT:
Go fuck yourself.
On this matter, make no mistake. I want you to go fuck yourself long and hard, as well as anyone who agrees with you. I got no use for you.

Friday, May 28, 2010 - 18:26 To President Obama:
Mr. President, you're a god damn, mother fucking liar.
Fuck you, you cock sucking community activist piece of shit.
... go fuck yourself, Mr. President.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Wednesday, July 14, 2010 2:13 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

If we had seen the video.....

but we didn't.

I got other issues with the BDM, one of which is that it's not been followed up w/ parts 2 and 3 of the gorram trilogy.

Yet.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE