GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Firefly gun safety question

POSTED BY: BYTEMITE
UPDATED: Friday, January 21, 2011 18:17
SHORT URL: http://goo.gl/Uct9q
VIEWED: 2817
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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:10 PM

BYTEMITE


Okay, pretend you're Mal. Get real gruff, brood a little if you have to... Good?

Now say a member of the crew is in trouble, and you have to hurry off to the rescue, 'cause you're the captain, you know. You don't have your coat on or your holster strapped on you just now, but times-a-wasting and all you can do is grab a gun and skedaddle.

You can't go in with your gun unshucked because there's a bunch of purplebellies nearby and you don't want to draw attention.

So where do you put your gun?

If it's your service pistol from the war, my first thought was maybe you'd tuck it in the back of your waistband/belt, but that also seems unsafe to me, like a good way to shoot your own backside off.

Also, is this something a soldier would do? Seems undisciplined.

My second thought was to take a smaller gun than your service pistol and slip it in your boot instead.

Thoughts? Better ideas? Glaring issues stemming from my ignorance of gun safety?


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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:28 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Back of the waistband is certainly preferable to the front of the waistband, I'll tell you that much! You might hit yourself in the backside if the gun has no safety, but that's not as bad as the alternative.

Tucking it into the boot might not be entirely safe, either. Could make it more difficult to walk or run smoothly, and might shoot your foot.

I think it most likely that when soldiers/officers/Mal do not have their holsters on, their guns are in them. That way, grabbing a gun and grabbing the holster is the same thing, and it just gets strapped on as you walk. I could be wrong, though.


I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:38 PM

BYTEMITE


It's a good point, and something I'm also wondering about (hence calling this a gun safety thread).

When not using a gun, if it's not out and out stored, then it would seem safest carried in a holster. So this is also an option I'd consider.

But would a holster with a gun in it by necessity draw as much attention as just a gun singular? Especially if you happened to be in an area were most civilians are unarmed?

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:38 PM

BYTEMITE


EDIT: Odd, I can edit in the beta version but only if I've posted on the beta version.

Well, ignore these two posts.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:40 PM

BYTEMITE


EDITTED - Beta troubles. More conversation? :) I'm doing research for a story and I don't want to flagrantly abuse gun safety rules.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:55 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


It would probably draw attention, but without a coat to cover it a huge pistol in the back of the waistband will be spotted by at least a couple people. But yes, storing in a holster is a good plan. I seem to remember my grandpa doing that with one or two of his guns.


I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 8:59 PM

BYTEMITE


Also true. I guess I have to think up whether the holster is more conspicuous or not, in addition to whether it's safer.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 9:10 PM

NEWOLDBROWNCOAT


From the undisciplined point, yes, it would be. I expect Mal buckles on his holster, with gun, when he puts on his pants.
If pressed, he might use a different piece, with a shorter barrel, and stick it in his pocket. Boot or back of pants would also work, with some comfort issues.

Another question-- do revolvers, or exposed hammer long guns like Zoe's mare's leg, have safeties? I thought you kept them safe by keeping an empty chamber under the hammer, and sometimes, the hammer set on half-cock?

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 9:11 PM

INVADERCHAT


While not exactly 'safe' I don't think it's as dangerous as you seem to be thinking to just tuck it into the back of your pants. Especially with a gun that has a safety lock or one where you need to pull back the hammer on the back of the gun like some of the ol'skool guns in Firefly have the chances of accidentally setting it off are pretty low. I'm not saying it's recommended or anything but if I didn't have anywhere else it's not something I'd even think about. Typically gun triggers aren't like hairpins, they actually take a bit of pressure to fire.

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 9:18 PM

BYTEMITE


I think maybe PR and NOBC have won me over. If Mal is going outside, then he'll have a holster. That's just him.

If he happens to have been waiting in a shuttle for said crewmate to get back, and is sitting down in the seat at the console when he gets the news, he might have removed the gun from his holster to make sitting less onerous. Then, heading off to go to the rescue, he just gives his gun a check and shoves it home.

I may have some elements I can use that would make Mal with a holstered gun stand out less to the Alliance soldiers, so I think it might still work.

Invaderchat: barring me not knowing any better, maybe I should just play it safe with my story. For personal knowledge: waistbands not so dangerous as considered. Interesting.

Thanks. :) Still interested in hearing thoughts though!

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 10:10 PM

VERASAMUELS


I think if it was a situation where carrying openly would be a problem, he might wear a shoulder holster. That would be well-hidden under the long brown coat.

Jayne, of course, wouldn't give a rats arse and would go out armed to the teeth, as usual [GG]

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:00 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Mal *does* have a couple other guns, including some suitable for pants pocket carry, or concealed holster - just before the infamous "Bwah!" scene he's cleaning them and Inara needles him a bit about it, so you can prolly put that part in frame-by-frame and have a looksee, you know.

For his main, yeah, anytime it's not in hand, holster, which also fits with the "western" setting of Firefly, of course.

Oh, and Re: Jayne - nah, if it was gonna be an issue, that's what medical tape is for (remember that one?), only... gettin it off ain't fun, so one could imagine drawing in a hurry could be... problematic.

-F

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Sunday, January 16, 2011 11:01 PM

FREMDFIRMA


Ruttin double posts, gah.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 7:11 AM

BYTEMITE


Hehe, yeah, Fireflyfans beta doesn't quite go to thread like the old version after you've posted, so it's kind of like "Hwuh? Did it go through? - clicky click".

Well, a pocket ace would be pretty western... In my mind it must be a security thing. For one, the man probably, if you squint, has some kind of PTSD. Having lots of guns around apparently makes him feel more at ease in case he needs one. But the only time we ever see him using a gun besides his main arm is when he has no choice in Out of Gas, because the other crew wouldn't meet him with it strapped on and he had to resort to the hidden one. This is potentially because in some sense he trusts his pistol the most.

In the Those Left Behind comic, he says something outright about feeling as though that gun and Zoe are the only things that got him through the war. He also refuses to give it up to the ambushers when asked, even when they're holding him, Jayne, and Zoe at gunpoint, and that might be the moment he decides to finally fight back as well.

On the other hand, he was probably carrying concealed in The Train Job when he was in his civvies.

I imagine Jayne didn't think the medical tape idea through very well. Although Mal... Does he shave or something? Actually, he might be able to pull off a medical tape surprise.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 8:24 AM

CYBERSNARK


I don't think Jayne thinks anything through very well.

Taking a page from Han Solo, Mal's probably got a hold-out (maybe that tiny little derringer Wash cocked menacingly in War Stories) that's designed to be concealed. Something pocket-sized, or with a specially-designed boot-holster (though the tightpants may make that a problem).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 8:41 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

I don't think Jayne thinks anything through very well.


I hear that, unless he's figuring the percentage, the benefits of a prospective job, or the exact angle to compensate for a bent scope at 500 yards.

Quote:

Something pocket-sized, or with a specially-designed boot-holster (though the tightpants may make that a problem).



Well, I'm officially confounded. Maybe I'll take a look at a freeze frame of that cleaning the guns scene in the visual companions and see what my options are.

EDIT: I was hoping to find some details, no such luck. Definitely the one Inara picks up she refers to as "concealable." Beyond that, I got nothing.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 1:35 PM

BYTEMITE


Gun model trivia to the rescue!

http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Firefly

:D

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Monday, January 17, 2011 1:48 PM

FREMDFIRMA



Well, the ideal pocket gun would be the Colt 1903/1908 hammerless, since there's no chance of the hammer hanging up on fabric, and it's small enough for pants pocket carry, plus given where it's stashed, he could just snag it on the way out and drop it into a pocket neat as you please...

So I think that's your go-to-gun for story value here, if I take your intentions correctly.


The Colt Mustang .380 is more a boot or sleeve gun, I carried one for many a year, and it's quite small, but blocky and unsuitable for unholstered pocket carry.

-F

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Monday, January 17, 2011 1:51 PM

BYTEMITE


Yeah, I was doing research on the Mustang, and possibly the ankle-holster idea.... Though I have my doubts that would work with either the boots or the pants. Might be too tight to pull that off believably, even if I eschew the holster and have it by itself in the boot.

The hammerless was the one on the side of mule in out of gas. Which could be useful for my situation if they taped it to the new hovermule for similar reasons. And they might have.

I'm learning things!

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:18 PM

MOOSE


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:

The hammerless was the one on the side of mule in out of gas. Which could be useful for my situation if they taped it to the new hovermule for similar reasons. And they might have.



Apparently Mal learned from his "Out of Gas" encounter since they now have a pair of M1A1 Carbines mounted on the HoverMule.




http://www.imfdb.org/index.php/Serenity

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Monday, January 17, 2011 3:26 PM

BYTEMITE


Hahahahaha, awesome.

Joss, I love you...r attention to detail.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 5:08 PM

BYTEMITE


Oh hey

Quote:

One of these would be the ankle holster. I have seen ankle holsters for .380 autos and .38 snubby revolvers, but I surely would not like to carry so heavy a gun that way. However, an ankle holster will work for the deep concealment pistols. They are light enough and small enough not to be too obtrusive. Cowboy boots or similar footwear help to conceal an ankle holster.


yeeeeeee~!

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Monday, January 17, 2011 10:27 PM

REDFEATHER1


from experience tucking a gun at your back in your waist band may not be the most comfortable thing but its not too bad if your just going to say go check on someone real fast and cant wear a full rig. tho i have a fed nice skeleton rigs that go on my belt at the back and it hold the firearm outside of the pants however i prefer to wear them at my side so they are more comfortable sitting down.
as for in the boot bad idea unless you have an ankle holster, really uncomfortable and ankles actually can trigger if you step just right (not likely but it can happen) and if you just drop one down your boot, if your sitting not too bad but if your walking or running around, it moves and is hard to get to in an emergency. now with an ankle rig still hard to get to in a boot BUT not was noticeable or uncomfortable i wear mine occasionally when i can not wear one at my waist if i have need to i have seen other people or officers put a hideaway in their boot and end p limping after 2 or 3 steps and thinking better of it (i am not law enforcement, just dont want anyone thinking i am saying i am, but i have been a P.I. and occasionally am an armed PPO)
Also mals rig is slung low which would be fairly comfortable sitting down and he would not have to remove his pistol while sitting. I am in a wild west shootout group that wears similar rigs and you can ride horses in them and you can sit in a chair with em.
as for would a man like mal have a gun on him at all times. I do not think i have ever seen my father without a firearm on him in my life when he was on the job weather he was working or not (prob not even since then) people that live that life style tend to stay armed at all costs in some way.

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Monday, January 17, 2011 10:28 PM

REDFEATHER1


I wear a 38 in my ankle holster and it works ok and once you get used to wearing it no one is the wiser. When i wear it with my boots its mighty hidden away just harder to get to lol

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:16 AM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

from experience tucking a gun at your back in your waist band may not be the most comfortable thing but its not too bad if your just going to say go check on someone real fast and cant wear a full rig. tho i have a fed nice skeleton rigs that go on my belt at the back and it hold the firearm outside of the pants however i prefer to wear them at my side so they are more comfortable sitting down.


Heh, yeah, and probably a much, much better option than the front of the waistband, am I right?

I've heard stories, and granted, most of these are a problem of too baggy pants coupled with gun falling loose from the waistband and trying to grab it. But I hear plenty of guys have had misfires and their genetic legacy is gonna end with them.

This isn't a problem with Mal I'd think as he doesn't wear baggy, so in a pinch it'd work for him, but from most of the responses here in this thread it sounds like people expect Mal to be prepared in advance for any kind of danger that comes up. So, holsters.

With one exception: whenever he's on Serenity, is intending to stay for a while, isn't expecting trouble, and they don't have unfamiliar passengers that might get unruly, then he goes unarmed. It seems like to me that he considers Serenity a safe zone, which is why being attacked on Serenity (by Jubal Early, by Saffron, both times unarmed) takes him by surprise so much.

Quote:

as for in the boot bad idea unless you have an ankle holster, really uncomfortable and ankles actually can trigger if you step just right (not likely but it can happen) and if you just drop one down your boot, if your sitting not too bad but if your walking or running around, it moves and is hard to get to in an emergency. now with an ankle rig still hard to get to in a boot BUT not was noticeable or uncomfortable i wear mine occasionally when i can not wear one at my waist if i have need to i have seen other people or officers put a hideaway in their boot and end p limping after 2 or 3 steps and thinking better of it


Quote:

I wear a 38 in my ankle holster and it works ok and once you get used to wearing it no one is the wiser. When i wear it with my boots its mighty hidden away just harder to get to lol


Yeah, I decided to go with an ankle holster in the boot. That Colt Magnum would need SOME kind of holster judging by what Frem says, and if Mal HAS it, I have trouble imagining he doesn't wear it or use it. Jayne may keep a whole bunch of guns as a trophy collection, but for Mal guns are purely a matter of safety and practicality.

It's be interesting (and hilarious) though to see Mal, Zoe, and Jayne have to go through security and each of them do an extended disarm.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ExtendedDisarming

I bet on some worlds security recognizes them on sight and just doesn't even bother.

Quote:

Also mals rig is slung low which would be fairly comfortable sitting down and he would not have to remove his pistol while sitting.


Also good to know. I guess you'd just get used to the weight on your side like that.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 5:27 AM

CYBERSNARK


The kind of holster Mal (and Han Solo) wears is designed for the quick-draw; it keeps the gun right at hand-level, so he doesn't have to waste time reaching for it.

The old Brian Daley Han Solo novels went into greater detail on how to customize it; Han had filed off the forward sight on his gun (which is why he used an external scope instead) so it wouldn't snag. He had also trimmed down the front edge of the holster itself, so the gun would clear it faster.

Not saying Mal would've done the same, but I could definitely see the two of them trading notes.

Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I've heard stories, and granted, most of these are a problem of too baggy pants coupled with gun falling loose from the waistband and trying to grab it. But I hear plenty of guys have had misfires and their genetic legacy is gonna end with them.

As it should be, one thinks. Some people shouldn't get to reproduce.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 8:41 AM

FREMDFIRMA


Actually, you more than "get used to" the weight, after long enough you actually become pyschologically disconcerted if it's NOT there - especially folk who've lived rough lives as Mal has, who's very life has often depended on having it handy, to NOT be strapped puts them in a very uncomfortable mental place.

How uncomfortable, you ask - well as a mental experiment, if you feel particularly psychologically masochistic, lose the boxers and go commando, then go grocery shopping.
THAT uncomfortable, downright paranoia-inspiring.

So if yer gonna write about it, don't forget that lacking the mental bulwark of a trusted/favored piece is gonna have a huge pyschological impact, only slightly lessened by having a piece at all.

Oh, and regarding Extended Disarming (or as we call it, the Mongolian Strip Tease) I think Jayne would be the most fun for that one, Zoe is more of a hands-on kinda girl, and Mal just has a couple, but Jayne, especially if he knew it was coming, would wanna show off and lug in a *ridiculous* amount of hardware....

Best example I've seen of this would be Mad Max: Beyond Thunderdome, about 6-7 minutes in, and he STILL manages to slip a knife through, hidden in plain sight.

-Frem

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:36 AM

REDFEATHER1


Frem is dead right on that one, when you wear a side arm or a knife as part of your daily dress you get so used to it that it feels alien and naked to not have it. like a hat for some or a purse for others, and even like glasses for those that need wear them
I need to re-watch the show back to back (do that every so often like we all do) but i think mal has his side arm on him most times
yeah he might hang his on a peg when he comes in, (case in point in the expendables stallone and statham hang their gun belts on pegs behind them in the airplane) but for the most part especially if they are in port or anytime there MIGHT be trouble i think mal is the type to go armed to the bathroom even lol.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:38 AM

REDFEATHER1


There is also the logic that you might have someone (i have used this in stories before) have an obvious weapon or two that they take on the pat down so that they let you go with a minor search and you can sneak in one secreted elsewhere

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 10:40 AM

REDFEATHER1


There is also the logic that you might have someone (i have used this in stories before) have an obvious weapon or two that they take on the pat down so that they let you go with a minor search and you can sneak in one secreted elsewhere

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 11:13 AM

BYTEMITE


Hmm. Conflicting notes: Mal NOT surrendering his service piece to ambushers in the comics, versus him stashing it in a bin when going to see the twins in the movie. I guess it's dependent on whether he expects he can get it back.

Although maybe the fact that Mal goes back to the bins suggests he doesn't usually carry concealed weapons.

I've decided I may need some further clarification on why he's not bringing his main piece, maybe I'll be able to dip into the psychological angle there. The unease about not wearing it when it's been a reliable constant going into a fight, versus the real fear of it being permanently confiscated. I think I can do that.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2011 11:52 AM

REDFEATHER1


it could also be that the reason he put the gun the ONLY reason is because the meet with the twins was an agreed upon unarmed meeting. mal is pretty honorable and since he would want the twins to be unarmed (and hopefully honorable about it) he might do the same.
so if in your story he cant go openly armed but he has no honor bound reason to go fully UNarmed i can see him having a hide away stashed somewhere on his person or on the mule or where ever maybe in his pretty floral bonnet

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Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:55 PM

INVADERCHAT


Dunno if this has been mentioned or not but I was watching 'Trash' today and thought of this thread when I saw the scene where Mal and YoSaffBridge get back on the shuttle after their caper. Mal makes a point of taking his gun from SOMEWHERE and putting it in his holster which he had hanging on the wall there 'so that YSB can steal it'.

Just thought it might be worth a look, it's difficult to see where he actually pulls it from but it's definitely quite concealed and it almost looks like he just pulls it out of his pocket or belt or something.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 11:28 AM

BYTEMITE


Interesting, I'll check on this.

Not sure. Looking at the screen captures, it looks like he walks into the scene with it drawn, reaches his opposite arm over to a ring or hook on the wall, then reholsters his gun.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 4:57 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by Bytemite:
Interesting, I'll check on this.

Not sure. Looking at the screen captures, it looks like he walks into the scene with it drawn, reaches his opposite arm over to a ring or hook on the wall, then reholsters his gun.


That's likely, so I think a better place to look would be the confrontation with Haymer, where he first draws it.


I do not need the written code of a spiritual belief to act like a decent human being.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 5:05 PM

MOOSE


He had it stashed in the flowers.

In the shuttle, he had it in his backpocket. Check out when he gets up from the pilot seat.



But, it appears he didn't have it when they fought the guards outside.

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Friday, January 21, 2011 6:17 PM

BYTEMITE


:o

Wow, good eye. I guess that makes some sense, he doesn't have his holster. But... he was sitting with it in a back pocket?

o.0 Mal, you're a crazy guy. Thank goodness they modded the prop gun to only shoot blanks...

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