GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Why so few official Firefly projects?

POSTED BY: CDABEL
UPDATED: Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:52
SHORT URL: http://bit.ly/IYz3FP
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Thursday, April 19, 2012 11:38 AM

CDABEL


Putting aside the idea of a renewed, full-fledged TV series with the original cast (which I think we know isn't likely for many reasons), can someone please help explain the lack of:

1. Official novels
2. Graphic novels continuing the story passed the events of Serenity
3. Shorter-form live action projects with some level of participation from the original cast (for example in their off seasons)
4. New live action projects based in the Verse with a new cast

I think there must be a market of some sort for one or more of those, or something similar. If it´s simply the fact that the IP rights are tied up, what incentive would the holder have for NOT allowing such projects to take place?


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Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:17 PM

BYTEMITE


Apparently the rights ARE tied up, and at this point it even sounds like Universal gave all the rights back over to Fox so now they're consolidated under one place. All misgivings about Fox for what they did aside, that might indicate Fox has some renewed interest in the franchise, or it might mean they just want to sit on it.

There's a new comic coming out this May, and I know Dark Horse has been chomping at the bit after Joss for an actual Firefly comic SERIES because the one-shots are some of their best sellers. Which I think is one of the reasons Joss assigned his little brother to start trying out writing Firefly comic. Might be setting up for just such a contingency soon as Zack has more experience and Joss has some time.

Might be looking to much into it but I can hope.

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 12:18 PM

EBFIDDLER


I have especially wondered at the lack of official novels. Seems like there would be relatively low overhead to produce them, and there's a ready market that would ensure a return on the investment. You go to the store (or virtual store) and see shelves of Star Trek and Star Wars novels. Surely there could be more Firefly/Serenity novels than just the one novelization of the movie. I've bought all the companion books, essays, even the graphic novels...but I would prefer something I could actually read, that would last longer than an hour. Such fascinating and deep characters as these deserve some decent novels to act in. This is the question I would have asked Joss in his recent online Q&A: Why no novels?

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:01 PM

STORYMARK


Im guessing that as loyal a fanbase as we are, we're still not big enough. And, TV show tie-in books aren't that big outside of Star Wars and Star Trek. Bigger, WAY more popluar shows have tried to launch book series, and they've not done well enough to warrant many.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:20 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Apparently the rights ARE tied up, and at this point it even sounds like Universal gave all the rights back over to Fox so now they're consolidated under one place. All misgivings about Fox for what they did aside, that might indicate Fox has some renewed interest in the franchise, or it might mean they just want to sit on it.

There's a new comic coming out this May . . .

The Free Comic Book Day preview says trademarked and copyrighted by FOX:
Quote:

Serenity: Firefly Class 03-K64™ & © 2012 Twentieth Century Fox Film Corporation.
03-K64 is not an attractive name for a comic, so what bizarre corporate reasoning inside FOX forced Darkhorse to use it? Any speculations on what FOX's marketing strategy is? Do they know how to spell strategy?
www.freecomicbookday.com/catalogimages/STK_IMAGES_PDF/STK440001-460000
/STK459374.pdf



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:42 PM

BYTEMITE


Well... I'm not quite sure that's true, Storymark. There's plenty of book franchises out there that are tied with very small fanbases.

Look at the world of video game professional fiction, or heck, even table top. Mechwarrior books? The Witcher? Dragon Lance? Forgotten Realms? Dead or Alive? Dragon's Age? Nothing wrong with those franchises, but you can't tell me those are big demographics, not relative to Star Wars and Star Trek. Yet those books are made and sold.

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:45 PM

BYTEMITE


Two: I'm sure people will continue to call them Serenity comics.

Maybe they thought that adding the class code to the name of the series would make the name seem tougher and more sci-fi, I can see how people might see either "Serenity" or "Firefly," both very soft titles, and think that the comic book itself is some kind of soft fantasy and/or boring.

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 1:56 PM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Two: I'm sure people will continue to call them Serenity comics.

I can see how people might see either "Serenity" or "Firefly," both very soft titles, and think that the comic book itself is some kind of soft fantasy and/or boring.

FOX ought to go with Serenity: Killer Angels. It sounds hard, tough, cruel. And we in the know will know that name's history. Better than calling the comic 03-K64, from a nameplate.
http://store.qmxonline.com/Firefly-Builders-Plaques-Metalized-Sticker-
Set_p_122.html



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 3:08 PM

6IXSTRINGJACK


In a "right" world, Joss would have the rights (that is assuming he really came up with the idea.)

Suits, Suits, Suits... that's the ansewer....

There is some statistician working for Fox that knows exactly our breaking point and when we'd all pay top dollar for some more FF universe content.

Give me 2 minutes in a room with him and we'd have a new series based off the "verse" in production.



In much better news, Netflix bought the rights to Arrested Development from Fox and they're shooting their first season in 5 or 6 years this summer! I can't wait!

F- Fox!

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 3:32 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Apparently the rights ARE tied up, and at this point it even sounds like Universal gave all the rights back over to Fox so now they're consolidated under one place


Universal did not "give" any, let alone "all the" rights back to 20th Century Fox; they only leased limited rights (to make movies based on the series) for three years in the first place. When the movie failed to meet its financial targets, Universal chose not to spend more money on extending the lease. They never had rights to the TV series itself. This may seem like quibbling, since after all the rights are, again, in one place, but let's get the place right

Quote:

All misgivings about Fox for what they did aside

& just what, exactly, did "Fox"(sic) do? 20th Century Fox is the movie & TV studio where Joss made "Buffy" (all seven seasons), "Angel", & "Firefly". They own the rights to Firefly. They are also the studio that allowed Joss to leave the sets for Firefly up for six months after filming. FOX (a network) cancelled Firefly; they have no rights to it. In 2003, Joss said he was happy with the studio, 20th Century Fox, and I haven't heard him contradict that. Why should any of us feel otherwise?


Keep the Shiny Side Up,

YT

YTonTw1tt3r

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 3:57 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


I agree with Story, the fan base is just not big enough to support some of those things. More so when you add in fans like me that are really not interested in others shows set in the Verse. My interest is in the character, the crew, not the Verse itself.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:08 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by two:
03-K64 is not an attractive name for a comic


Heck, it isn't even a good designation for Serenity. The following exchange

Kaylee: Ever been on a Firefly before?
Book: Long before you were crawlin'. Not an ought-three though -- didn't have the extenders --

makes it clear that "03" [ought-three] is a sub-designation, and why would anyone put a sub-designation before the primary designation


Keep the Shiny Side Up,

YT

YTonTw1tt3r

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 4:30 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
I agree with Story, the fan base is just not big enough to support some of those things. More so when you add in fans like me that are really not interested in others shows set in the Verse. My interest is in the character, the crew, not the Verse itself


With you there. I'd even add "those actors playing" just in front of "the crew"


Keep the Shiny Side Up,

YT

YTonTw1tt3r

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Thursday, April 19, 2012 9:53 PM

CDABEL


YT and m52, you are certainly entitled to your opinions, and I share your feelings about the original cast and characters, but perhaps you are being a little quick to discount the possibility that Joss & Co. could entertain and "wow" us again with a different iteration. I assume you would at least give it a "look-see". :)

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Friday, April 20, 2012 3:09 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


The only comic set after the movie is Serenity: Float Out, written by Patton Oswalt. There is nothing in it about what happened to 6 out of the 7 surviving Heroes. I think the reason is that Joss Whedon had not decided upon a new direction for Firefly.

The stories will be few and disjointed until Joss chooses a short snappy mission statement for Darkhorse Comics, which is paying the artists and writers like Oswalt & Zack Whedon. Without direction, stories fly in circles until they run out of fuel and crash.

Check out the preview of the May 5th Free Comic Book Day. It is still flying in circles, taking place before Serenity: Float Out, based on the stage of Zoe's pregnancy.
www.freecomicbookday.com/catalogimages/STK_IMAGES_PDF/STK440001-460000
/STK459374.pdf



The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Friday, April 20, 2012 5:21 AM

BYTEMITE


Totally aware that Fox Network and 20th Century Fox are different entities. Fox network canceled it, but 20th Century Fox hasn't exactly tried to find a new network or given Joss a go ahead to produce more episodes. Joss may be okay with them, but they still have basically just sat on the franchise since 2005, and he can't do much without their go ahead.

Maybe don't assume what people know and don't know. This is a friendly place! No one has to cut anyone down here. I think everyone would like to see more stories in the verse, and yeah, by that I mean more stories about the crew. And maybe Saffron.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 6:29 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Well... I'm not quite sure that's true, Storymark. There's plenty of book franchises out there that are tied with very small fanbases.

Look at the world of video game professional fiction, or heck, even table top. Mechwarrior books? The Witcher? Dragon Lance? Forgotten Realms? Dead or Alive? Dragon's Age? Nothing wrong with those franchises, but you can't tell me those are big demographics, not relative to Star Wars and Star Trek. Yet those books are made and sold.



Uh, videogames are huge industry, so I think calling them a small fanbase is kinda silly. And, in the case of virtually ALL game-tied novels, they come out when there's a new game to raise awareness. It's not like they're publishing books for games that were popular a decade ago (which is how old Firefly is, mind you). So yes, in relation to Firefly - those are FREAKING HUGE demographics.

Dragon Lance and Forgotten Realms have been two very, very big book franchises for going on 3 decades, so calling them small seems to belie a limited knowledge on the subject.

Lets look at something more comparable - SciFi TV series. Farscape, Battlestar Galactica - both ran longer than Firefly, both had loyal fanbases.... how many tie-in novels? Farscape had a few - and they flopped.

X-Files, Stargate... both massively popular on a scale Firefly can't even dream about... both had book series. X-Files petered out long ago (even while the show was running strong). Stargate they're struggling to pre-sell enough copies to continue.

Hell, Buffy was about a thousand times more popular with the general audience than Firefly - and those novels tanked, too.

Im betting the Serenity novelization sold poorly (hell, I wasn't even aware of it until recently) and the other related books didn't light up the slaes charts, either. Firefly is about as niche as you can get. Don't confuse your (or my) love for it with mass popularity.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, April 20, 2012 8:08 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Firefly was setup from the beginning to be episodic. That is the crew faces some sort of problem and then overcomes it, moving on to their next problem, with longer storylines woven throughout. There is nothing wrong with this except it does not translate very well to other forms.

Novels are going to be long and unless they are collections of shorter adventures they are going to need greater dangers within the storylines for the reader to invest the time in reading such length. Not saying it can't be done, but it is harder to do.

Comics seem like a good fit as each could serve the function of an episode. The problem is so far the comics have not been that good. Partly because the limited text you can put in a standard comic. Plus, like novels, you can do anything in the comic. TV and movies have limitation which a writer has to work within. Those limits very often focus people. Everyone likes to curse the Fox executives that handled Firefly, but if it was not for the pressure they applied Firefly may never have been as good as it was.

Age is probably the biggest issue at this point. Fans have had near a decade to imagine what happened to the crew. Some fans will not be happy with stories that are far departed from their expectations.


I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 8:24 AM

STORYMARK


I don't think there's anything inherent to Firefly that makes it poorly suited to longer storylines. Star Trek was designed to be episodic, too - and they've done ok by the books. And then, there's this little movie called Serenity that's longer than an episode.

Heck, given Joss' proclivities and storytelling style, I assume that had the show lasted longer, it would have gotten into longer story arcs after it got it's feet under it. As a matter of fact, hasn't Joss pretty much said that Serenity is just a super-compacted season 2?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, April 20, 2012 8:35 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I don't think there's anything inherent to Firefly that makes it poorly suited to longer storylines. Star Trek was designed to be episodic, too - and they've done ok by the books. And then, there's this little movie called Serenity that's longer than an episode.

Heck, given Koss' proclivities and storytelling style, I assume that had the show lasted longer, it would have gotten into longer story arcs after it got it's feet under it. As a matter of fact, hasn't Joss pretty much said that Serenity is just a super-compacted season 2?

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"



We had longer story lines within the 14 we got, so it is nothing against or saying that Firefly could not have supported those longer story lines, I just don't think it could have supported them as the only story arcs we got.

Serenity was somewhat a super-compact season 2 and worked as a movie, but it most likely also made the events which happened a lot bigger then they would have been. They needed to be because it was on the "big" screen. Joss even says this.

The Star Trek books do okay, but they also have a massive fan base to support them. Let’s face it, Trek has a larger base then Firefly does. Hell the Trek fan base kept Voyager and Enterprise on the air.



I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 8:46 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:

The Star Trek books do okay, but they also have a massive fan base to support them. Let’s face it, Trek has a larger base then Firefly does. Hell the Trek fan base kept Voyager and Enterprise on the air.




Which has zero to do with my point. Im not talking about their success - you said that an episodic show wasn't suited to novels - Trek offers literally hundreds of examples of that not being true.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, April 20, 2012 9:01 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Which has zero to do with my point. Im not talking about their success - you said that an episodic show wasn't suited to novels - Trek offers literally hundreds of examples of that not being true.



There wouldn't be hundred of examples of Star Trek novels if they did not have some measure of success.

As I said I think taking a show like Firefly and continuing it in novel form is difficult. Most novels tend to have rather large and important events at their centers. Which is why you see novels and novel series get made into movies or mini-series and not TV series. They simple have a different rhythm if you will.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 10:52 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!



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Friday, April 20, 2012 11:19 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Which has zero to do with my point. Im not talking about their success - you said that an episodic show wasn't suited to novels - Trek offers literally hundreds of examples of that not being true.



There wouldn't be hundred of examples of Star Trek novels if they did not have some measure of success.

As I said I think taking a show like Firefly and continuing it in novel form is difficult. Most novels tend to have rather large and important events at their centers. Which is why you see novels and novel series get made into movies or mini-series and not TV series. They simple have a different rhythm if you will.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.



Again... success has nothing to do with the ABILITY to expand the story. Saying an episodic show can't be expanded to novel length is nonsense, by examples you yourself agree with. The success of the show doesn't change the format in which it can be adapted.

What, if Firefly was a bigger success... it would be better suited to novels? Where's the logic there? If Trek hadn't been a hit, sure the books wouldn't have been written due to lack of demand (which ties back to my original post in the thread) but it doesn't mean those stories couldn't have been written.

The success of Trek did not magically make the subject matter better suited to longer formats, like a novel. The well-developed characters and universe DID provide enough material for many, many novels to be written. Personally, I see the characters and Universe of Firefly to have that potential, but if you see it as that much more limited, that's your prerogative, I guess.

And maybe you're not aware of this.... but I can think of at least 6 TV shows currently running which are based on novels and novel series(Game of Thrones, Bones, True Blood, Vampire Diaries, Dexter, Justified). And that's just the top of my head (there might be even more), and not looking back over the many other TV series of the past which were based on books. So saying books are not made into TV series is just simply wrong.

I think your notions of the limits of genre and medium are rather narrow.

"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, April 20, 2012 12:38 PM

BYTEMITE


Among the table top game and video game industry, there are smaller franchises, that do still get books published about them.

You know how many Dragonlance fanfics there are on fanfiction dot net? 856. Forgotten Realms? 1,399. Out of a book series based on friggin' ROLE PLAYING GAMES. Long runners in publishing, as was said.

Halo, arguably one of the most important first person shooters of all time? 5,695.

You care to guess how many fanfics fireflyfans has?

SIX THOUSAND, FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY EIGHT.

We beat out HALO, Storymark, the entire series. Released the same year as Firefly. Halo has a book series. Hell, we're neck and neck with the Mass Effect series.

Here's another take from a different angle. The graphic novel adaptation for Dragons from Autumn Twilight (Dragonlance) was ranked 33 on the top 100 Chart for graphic novels in sales the year it came out. Shepherd's Tale? Was ranked 19.

So don't try and tell me the fandom isn't there, or that I don't know what I'm talking about, because there is and I do. If we didn't have a big fandom, Dark Horse Comic's best sellers wouldn't be the Serenity comics. That's flat out logic.

Y'alls so negative. Jeez. No, it's not massively popular, it's not Twilight or Harry Potter or Star Wars or Star Trek or Doctor Who, it's not even Legend of Zelda or Resident Evil. It's fairly middle road when it comes to fandom numbers, but, middle road franchises? Get story and comic franchises. And the fact that Firefly hasn't yet is kind of a seriously bizarre oversight.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 1:49 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Among the table top game and video game industry, there are smaller franchises, that do still get books published about them.

You know how many Dragonlance fanfics there are on fanfiction dot net? 856. Forgotten Realms? 1,399. Out of a book series based on friggin' ROLE PLAYING GAMES. Long runners in publishing, as was said.

Halo, arguably one of the most important first person shooters of all time? 5,695.

You care to guess how many fanfics fireflyfans has?

SIX THOUSAND, FOUR HUNDRED AND FORTY EIGHT.



So?

Id say that has a lot to do with the intensity of the fandom, and the lack of published materials. A small, but very loyal fanbase hungry for more material - a prime setup for fanfic to thrive - even if its not enough to justify publishing a book series.

There is also something to be said for the type of fans. Id wager that Halo fans are simply not as inclined toward writing.

Google pulls up over TWO HUNDRED FIFTY THOUSAND results for Kirk/Spock shashfic - does that prove that people are clamouring for some Kirk on Spock action?

Quote:

We beat out HALO, Storymark, the entire series. Released the same year as Firefly. Halo has a book series. Hell, we're neck and neck with the Mass Effect series.


Again - so? Are you honestly saying that Firefly has a bigger fanbase, or even comparable, based on fanfics that only a small portion of EITHER fanbase even bothers with anyway?

Quote:

Here's another take from a different angle. The graphic novel adaptation for Dragons from Autumn Twilight (Dragonlance) was ranked 33 on the top 100 Chart for graphic novels in sales the year it came out. Shepherd's Tale? Was ranked 19.


A 20+ year old story, in a genre that hasn't been popular in comics for decades, didn't sell huge numbers? Why, that's a shock.

Now, how do you think it would go if we compared the sales of the book to every Firefly related publication ever, combined? Betcha the Dragons still win out.

Quote:

So don't try and tell me the fandom isn't there, or that I don't know what I'm talking about, because there is and I do. If we didn't have a big fandom, Dark Horse Comic's best sellers wouldn't be the Serenity comics. That's flat out logic.


Never said it wasn't there, just that it wasn't big enough to justify a novel series. None of your "logic" disputes this (or, to put it another way - your logic argues that there is FAR more reason for a company to produce slashfic books).

Quote:

Y'alls so negative. Jeez. No, it's not massively popular, it's not Twilight or Harry Potter or Star Wars or Star Trek or Doctor Who, it's not even Legend of Zelda or Resident Evil. It's fairly middle road when it comes to fandom numbers, but, middle road franchises? Get story and comic franchises. And the fact that Firefly hasn't yet is kind of a seriously bizarre oversight.


You call it negative, I call it realistic.

Don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE it if there were Firefly novels. I would eat them up in an instant, call in sick to read them, etc.

I just understand why they don't exist.



"Goram it kid, let's frak this thing and go home! Engage!"

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Friday, April 20, 2012 2:08 PM

BYTEMITE


Quote:

Again - so? Are you honestly saying that Firefly has a bigger fanbase, or even comparable, based on fanfics that only a small portion of EITHER fanbase even bothers with anyway?


I'm not buying that it's that small a portion. I think it's a smaller portion than the whole, yes, but I also think it might be indicative. There's a stereotype that only girls write fanfic, and while most of the really big fandoms are obviously girl dominated with their fanfics, there's enough fandoms that are more targeted towards guys. For some fandoms to have the number of fanfics that they do have, there actually has to be a lot of guys contributing.

I'm saying that both Halo and Firefly have been out for about the same amount of time, Halo has been a pretty big deal in the gaming world, and yet, the fanfic numbers are comparable. Something at least is going on here. Even if only mostly girls are writing firefly, and only mostly guys are writing Halo, do you think Firefly might have more guy fans than girl fans? I do. Do you think the reverse is true for Halo? I don't.

Quote:



Now, how do you think it would go if we compared the sales of the book to every Firefly related publication ever, combined? Betcha the Dragons still win out.



EDIT: Oh wait, I think I misunderstood you here. Hmm. It's going to be pretty hard to find the sales numbers, since the book I mentioned came out in 1987. I can give it a shot though.

Quote:



Never said it wasn't there, just that it wasn't big enough to justify a novel series. None of your "logic" disputes this (or, to put it another way - your logic argues that there is FAR more reason for a company to produce slashfic books).



First, very few of the Firefly fanfics out there are actually slash fics. For some reason we didn't really attract that demographic, the girls who tend to write slash fic (they're overwhelmingly girls). But second, you're conflating the second point I was making with the first point I was making. To repeat, so the issue remains clear here: In order for the Firefly comics to be the best sellers for Dark Horse, when they've got other more established franchises they write for AND there are so few Firefly comics, there has to be a fairly large Firefly fandom that outbuys the other fandoms that Dark Horse has. The Firefly fandom actually has to be larger than the other fandoms. THAT IS LOGICAL.

Quote:


You call it negative, I call it realistic.

Don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE it if there were Firefly novels. I would eat them up in an instant, call in sick to read them, etc.

I just understand why they don't exist.



When you dismiss evidence to the contrary of your position that indicates what little firefly stuff there is has done AS WELL as other franchises that do have regular book and comic series, then it comes across as negative. I don't think we have a huge fanbase, but I think you happen to be seriously UNDERESTIMATING the numbers.


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Friday, April 20, 2012 3:46 PM

BYTEMITE


Amazon ranks Dragons of Autumn Twilight at #2,716,937 in their sellers ranking.

It ranks Firefly Visual companion volume 1 at #177,755. Volume 2 at #168,748. Serenity visual companion at #224,927. Serenity novelization is #627,558. Those Left Behind is #7,782. Better Days is #16,205.

Now, to really get an accurate account of the Dragonlance book, I'd have to sum up the historical data from 1987. So I'm not necessarily sure any of these are that comparable. Also, I'm not really sure you can actually compare sales of books to sales of comic books/graphic novels because you'd be talking two different sets of demographics. So to be fair I don't think this is indicative.

Here's something else interesting.

Firefly DVDs are #454 in Movies & TV. For comparison, X2: X-men united was also released on DVD in 2003 at about the same time. It ranks at #11,295. Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl was released on DVD in 2003 at about the same time, it ranks at #1,887.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 4:28 PM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Again... success has nothing to do with the ABILITY to expand the story. Saying an episodic show can't be expanded to novel length is nonsense, by examples you yourself agree with. The success of the show doesn't change the format in which it can be adapted.



I never said it couldn't. I said it would be harder then other formats. That part does not have anything to do with the success of the show.

Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:What, if Firefly was a bigger success... it would be better suited to novels? Where's the logic there? If Trek hadn't been a hit, sure the books wouldn't have been written due to lack of demand (which ties back to my original post in the thread) but it doesn't mean those stories couldn't have been written.


No, it would not be better suited for novels. I'm not arguing that. If Firefly would have been more successful it would mean that any novels would have had a good chance to be more successful as well.

Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:The success of Trek did not magically make the subject matter better suited to longer formats, like a novel. The well-developed characters and universe DID provide enough material for many, many novels to be written. Personally, I see the characters and Universe of Firefly to have that potential, but if you see it as that much more limited, that's your prerogative, I guess.


Your right about Trek, but again I'm not saying that Star Treks success made it more suited to novels. I'm saying that the huge fan base is who bought those novels and made them successful. I doubt many of those books would have had near the success if Trek would not have been as huge as it is.

Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:And maybe you're not aware of this.... but I can think of at least 6 TV shows currently running which are based on novels and novel series(Game of Thrones, Bones, True Blood, Vampire Diaries, Dexter, Justified). And that's just the top of my head (there might be even more), and not looking back over the many other TV series of the past which were based on books. So saying books are not made into TV series is just simply wrong.

I think your notions of the limits of genre and medium are rather narrow.



Yes, based on. That is different that what I said which was "made into". Plus other then Bones and Justified the rest of the shows you mentioned are not really episodic. Yes realize I should have been more specific.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 7:37 PM

EBFIDDLER


Firefly novels would not have to hit the best-seller list to turn a profit. Maybe my point of view is skewed since I work in Indy recording, but the budget for publishing a novel has got to be closer to my end of the spectrum than to the TV-show-production end of the spectrum. TV show budgets are upwards of $1 million per hour for a scripted show, I'm informed. Books are just not that expensive to produce. My point is that producing Firefly novels is a relatively low-risk business decision to make. From my point of view it seems like a no-brainer: write and publish Firefly novels, enjoy steady if not gigantic stream of income. But maybe that's the problem: the rights to this franchise are owned by a TV production company, which is geared toward high risk/high reward projects. Maybe the relatively small reward, even if it's low-risk, is just not worth their notice.

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Friday, April 20, 2012 10:32 PM

CDABEL


There already exist businesses that cater to a Firefly "niche" market, such as, for example QMx, Dark Horse Comics, the various Firefly/Serenity companions, etc. So clearly there is an economic justification at some level to produce Firefly projects. One thing all of those have in common though, is that they cater to a sort of "nostalgia" for the original works. While I`m guessing that only the most devoted fans fall into the "swag-purchasing" category, Id bet that something nearly approaching 100% of the keychain/comic book buyers amongst us would buy a novel with a new and interesting story. Add to that the greater, Twittering, Firefly fan base and I think a novel would do relatively well.

What I want is an officially sanctioned, Joss Whedon approved novel, set, oh, seven years after the events of Serenity. This would have several advantages as I see it. First, this would leave plenty of room for madcap adventures of the "young and virile" characters to be played out in comic book form. And in the wildly optimistic chance that the book was a huge success, someone could make a live action adaptation of some kind or another without the "cast is 10 years older" argument. Suddenly their ages would be a requirement, not a liability.

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Saturday, April 21, 2012 7:28 AM

EBFIDDLER


Quote:

Originally posted by cdabel:

What I want is an officially sanctioned, Joss Whedon approved novel, set, oh, seven years after the events of Serenity. This would have several advantages as I see it. First, this would leave plenty of room for madcap adventures of the "young and virile" characters to be played out in comic book form. And in the wildly optimistic chance that the book was a huge success, someone could make a live action adaptation of some kind or another without the "cast is 10 years older" argument. Suddenly their ages would be a requirement, not a liability.



I'm with you, cdabel. Sounds like a plan. Now if only we can get Joss on board with this...;-)

I think the discussion as to whether Firefly is suitable novel material is moot. It clearly is. Storymark, I'm not talking about all those fanfics of dubious quality that you don't want to read. There are already novel-length, high quality fanfics that are well worth reading, many of them written by people who can or do make a living writing. If Joss were to sanction some of these, or to authorize someone to write a new one according to his parameters, or to write one himself, I think the project would be well worth the effort. Financially, because you don't really need to sell all that many units to turn a profit, and certainly for Firefly fans, most of whom wish there was a regular output of "official" new material. And the door would still be wide open for future film or TV projects.

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Saturday, April 21, 2012 8:33 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=51229

Problem is that Joss is not the one that has to give the okay, and according to Kevin Bell Fox is not interested unless it will make them at least $100,000 or more. Plus they will not work with individuals.

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:37 AM

TWO

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly


Quote:

Originally posted by m52nickerson:
http://www.fireflyfans.net/mthread.aspx?tid=51229 Oops! that doesn't work but if I go there indirectly: http://bit.ly/I15TqL it will work.

The Joss Whedon script for "Serenity," where Wash lives, is
Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/two

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Saturday, April 21, 2012 11:52 AM

M52NICKERSON

DALEK!


Thanks Two!

I do not fear God, I fear the ignorance of man.

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