Simon the Virgin Poll by howdyrockerbaby1

GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Simon the Virgin Poll

POSTED BY: HOWDYROCKERBABY1
UPDATED: Tuesday, June 8, 2004 13:29
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Tuesday, June 8, 2004 12:00 PM

Ah, but do we know for sure that the mores of that society condemn premarital (or nonmarital) sex? After all, Inara is the second-most-respectable person on the boat.

I forgot to say before that I think it's also significant that Simon is not just a doctor but a surgeon. Probably it'd take more than a mere 500 years to change "surgery" as a career path for people who aren't good at things like talking to people who are still conscious.

"Sadistic crap legitimized by florid prose"

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Tuesday, June 8, 2004 12:11 PM

NICOLACLARKE

I'm going to say a qualified yes. I wouldn't rule out some sort of drunken fumble, or a semi-seduction by a treasure-hunting older woman; I also have no doubt that, as a doctor, sex holds few purely physical mysteries for him.

But his upbringing and demeanour w/ Kaylee strongly suggest he's a virgin to any sort of emotionally-significant intimacy. Which is a completely different thing.

Nice point further up this thread (I forget who made it, sorry!) that Kaylee is herself insecure with Simon, and a more mature/experienced individual (Inara?) would be able to guide him through his faux-pas rather than overreacting to every real or imagined slight. Personally, I think that just as Simon needs to calm down and adapt to his situation, Kaylee will have to accept Simon for who he is, too, instead of trying to remake him in the image of the world she feels comfortable with. Compromise/understanding on both sides is vital if their relationship is to last.

Same goes for Mal and Inara, of course, but I'm not sure that'd ever happen...

/ pure intentions, juxtaposed /

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Tuesday, June 8, 2004 12:47 PM

HOWDYROCKERBABY1

Quote:
Originally posted by liz:
I still think that he's a virgin. He strikes me as the type of guy who would be waiting for the right girl and when he found her, he'd marry her and then they would have all the fun they want! He's always seemed at least respectful of Book's prayers and perhaps more than that. If he was raised with the religion that Book follows then he probably would have been expected to follow the ideals of no sex before marriage. Since Simon has proven himself to be an obedient son (until River was in trouble) i think he would be obedient to the mores of his society in this way as well. After all, just because women (and possibly men) are throwing themselves at him doesn't mean that he would have to give into them.
I know that i'm losing this debate but, in the immortal words of our own Malcolm Reynolds, "May have been the losing side... still not convinced it was the wrong one."

This is kind of on topic and kind of not. Just because the sex is looked down upon, doesn't mean it doesn't happen.

I attend a Private Catholic High School (though i am not catholic myself) about 1 month into school a girl and her boyfriend were sent away because he had gotten her pregnant, and they were homeschooled until after she'd had the baby. The most interesting thing happened after she had the baby and gave it up for adoption. The entire adult community around our school decided that she was "Such a brave girl" because she had the baby. Its not like she really had any choice. Catholic's don't believe in abortion...but then again...they don't believe in pre-marital sex either.

okay. i'll shut up now.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
MAL: This is my scrap of nowhere. You go on and find your own.
SAFFRON: You can't just leave me here, on this
lifeless piece of crap moon...
MAL: Sure I can.
SAFFRON: I'll die.
MAL: Well, as a courtesy, you might start
getting busy on that, cause all this chatter ain't doin' me any kindness.

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Tuesday, June 8, 2004 1:29 PM

RUTHIE

Seems to me that most of the people voting 'No' are thinking whether a character like Simon would be a virgin in our Earth-that-is.
If this had been the question, I think I'd vote 'No' as well. Simon hasn't shown much of the personal belief that makes some people in our world buck the trends (usually strong personal religious faith) - so if he'd been a rich medical student and Doctor in one of our big cities, he'd probably have conformed to our modern 'norm' of serial monogamy.

So the question as I see it is less to do with what Simon is like, and more to do with his society.

Values and expectaions about most things seem to have swung from one extreme to another throughout history, not least in attitudes to sex.
I'd argue that we're nearing the end of a swing towards permissiveness, and that the early to mid Victorian era marked the opposite end of the swing.
I'd say that elite society in the 'verse is somewhere near the end of a swing back to non-permissiveness. (wouldn't like to guess if it's the other end of our present swing, or if there'd been a few more in between).

This is offset by colonies on different worlds having different values.

Don't forget the cowboy influence - when the Wild West was happening in America, 'polite' British society were repressed Victorians (core planets), and the older cities in Eastern America were nearer to the British code than the 'Wild West'.
So the British looked down on all Americans as 'Colonials', and the old families of the East looked down on the rough west.....

I agree that there are some differences in society in the 'verse - Companions being one of them - but I'll leave that for another time...

*******************
Ruthie
*******************
By the data to date, there is only one animal in the Galaxy dangerous to man - man himself. So he must supply his own indispensable competition. He has no enemy to help him. (R.A.Heinlein)

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