Jayne and River by DRJEKYLL

A lot of people do this.

If you write it, people will read it.

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Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:15 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Folks seem to love coming back to these two, for what ever reason.

During the series, Jayne and River have a curious relationship.

There's the initial remark by Jayne to Dobson, about her being crazy , and how that might not matter ( vaguely suggesting he'd still sex her up, if given the opportunity. May have been Jayne speak, to rattle Dobson some, or may have him bein'... Jayne )

Jayne suggests that the Captain may drop Simon and River out the airlock, if push comes to shove. She tries to slash open his chest, and he tries to turn her and Simon over to the Alliance. She informs him that also... she could kill him with her brain.

Jayne isn't too fond that the Tams have painted a huge bulls eye on Serenity for the Feds, and he's also a bit jealous of Simon, who Kaylee is all smitten over, while all but ignoring Jayne. Dunno if that's big brother instincts kickin' in , or if Jayne really does fancy Kaylee as more than a member of the crew.

And then, in the BDM, Jayne, once again, tries to kidnap River and get her off the ship. After she's already whopped his tail once. And then she does it again...

Not a lot of love lost there, it would seem.

But, after all that, and the events they survived, maybe , just maybe, they realize they are better off with each other, than trying to stab each in the back. They seem to have the whole damn system after them now, so maybe they do patch things up some.

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Thursday, May 29, 2014 8:01 PM

I'm really expecting more fireworks than this, for this topic. Maybe it needs to pick up a little steam before I break out the popcorn.

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Thursday, May 29, 2014 9:46 PM

The war's over.

For some, the war will never be over.

but uh, yeah, we don't really do that anymore. Used to be fireworks. But around the time I first came here everyone resolved to let the ships be and not pester anyone about their preferences.

I had to resist, I admit.

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Friday, May 30, 2014 3:26 AM

VERASAMUELS

River has had part of her brain removed. She can't 'get better' from that.

Also Jayne has to be a good 20 years older than River. And she's 17 going on 18. That's....worrisome.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Friday, May 30, 2014 7:00 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Quote:
Originally posted by VeraSamuels:
Also Jayne has to be a good 20 years older than River. And she's 17 going on 18. That's....worrisome.

Not for Jayne it isn't.

Or maybe it is. Despite his crude nature, he doesn't ever make any real attempt to become more familiar w/ Kaylee OR River. None that we see, at least. Oh, he makes a couple of causal comments directed towards Kaylee, but who knows.

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Friday, May 30, 2014 1:18 PM

SECOND

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at https://www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

Quote:
Originally posted by Brenda:
That pairing to me is creepyifying.

Jayne and River disliking one another is the only kind of relations those two should have. Jayne and River are too divided by class and manners.

No matter how cross-eyed drunk River gets, Jayne will look like a crude, hedonistic killer. Any woman with half a brain will avoid him. Unless he pays her.

That would be fun Jayne fiction to read: him being shot down by one woman after another until he offers them money.

The Joss Whedon script for Serenity, where Wash lives, is Serenity-190pages.pdf at www.mediafire.com/folder/1uwh75oa407q8/Firefly

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Friday, May 30, 2014 2:08 PM

I stand corrected. Apparently we do still have ship wars.

In the short story by Jose Molina, I was amused that Mal imagined the way Jayne would go someday was that he was rolling in so much cash and fame and so drunk he mistook one of his guns for a woman and shot himself in the pelvis.

Because... That is just so Jayne. It's such a perfect ending for him, died happy and crude as ever.

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Friday, May 30, 2014 5:49 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
I stand corrected. Apparently we do still have ship wars.

I was just about to say....

Also, River is 17 going on 18, but how is that much different than Jayne 40 and going on 19?

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Friday, May 30, 2014 6:07 PM

CREDOS

with all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams its still a beautiful world. Be careful. Strive to be happy.

I don't necessarily think that Jane's relationship with River has to be anything more then platonic, what's wrong with a seasoned merc developing a respect for a younger kindred soul? Jane was made in to the man he became, River was surgically adjusted. Neither, I believe, would have chose the life they found themselves living, but through shared experiences discovered kindred spirits. There may even be a feeling of responsibility from Jane to River, and older dog showing a younger the tricks of the trade. Again, just my take on it. :)

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Friday, May 30, 2014 11:27 PM

EBFIDDLER

I can easily see Jayne and River gaining respect for each other, especially if they're put in a situation in which they have to work together, in which they have to cooperate to get something done. I don't see this extending to a romantic relationship, but that's just my point of view. (I just don't see it. Big age difference, significant for someone River's age; different backgrounds; and the biggest hurdle from my point of view is the way they think. River's a genius, very cerebral. Math, theoretical physics, all that. Whereas Jayne's interest in mathematics extends to calculating his share, as we saw in Serenity the Pilot.) For those who enjoy the pairing, I recommend Two Gorram Days by Dyce, over at fanfiction.net. It's very well-written and captures the characters quite well, and I enjoyed it alot even though Jayne/River is not my thing.

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Saturday, May 31, 2014 6:07 PM

STEAMER

Ick. Just ick.

(Which coincidentally enough rhymes with 'sick', which is what the River/Jayne pairing makes me.

)

I get into these discussions for two reasons: 1) to be reassured that other people actually do feel the same way about Rayne as I do, and 2) to make the point that unlike Spike and Buffy, you really could not detect any hidden fluffy feelings between River and Jayne. Throughout the show and the movie, it was clear to me that Jayne hated River's guts because of what she could do, to him especially. River, meanwhile, no more than tolerated Jayne, and then only because he regretted what he did to her and Simon. But romantic feelings? No. Just no. I couldn't see that at all, and considering the vast age disparity, it's just as well. A mentally crippled teenage girl and a twisted-man-ape-gone-wrong-thing just doesn't do it for me.

(Rayne, Rayne, go away, keep the power-hungry maniac at bay. :P )

I vastly prefer River/OC in fanfic; I even asked Summer Glau at Dragon*Con a few years back what she thought of River finding love. Thankfully, she said nothing about Jayne; but in a tone of voice that suggested I was nothing more than a twisted-man-ape-gone-wrong-thing myself, she opined that she would have liked to see River get her own ship and run her own business which would be her first and only love. Oh well.

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Monday, June 2, 2014 7:14 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by STEAMER:
Ick. Just ick.

(Which coincidentally enough rhymes with 'sick', which is what the River/Jayne pairing makes me. )

I get into these discussions for two reasons: 1) to be reassured that other people actually do feel the same way about Rayne as I do, and 2) to make the point that unlike Spike and Buffy, you really could not detect any hidden fluffy feelings between River and Jayne. Throughout the show and the movie, it was clear to me that Jayne hated River's guts because of what she could do, to him especially. River, meanwhile, no more than tolerated Jayne, and then only because he regretted what he did to her and Simon. But romantic feelings? No. Just no. I couldn't see that at all, and considering the vast age disparity, it's just as well. A mentally crippled teenage girl and a twisted-man-ape-gone-wrong-thing just doesn't do it for me.

(Rayne, Rayne, go away, keep the power-hungry maniac at bay. :P )

I vastly prefer River/OC in fanfic; I even asked Summer Glau at Dragon*Con a few years back what she thought of River finding love. Thankfully, she said nothing about Jayne; but in a tone of voice that suggested I was nothing more than a twisted-man-ape-gone-wrong-thing myself, she opined that she would have liked to see River get her own ship and run her own business which would be her first and only love. Oh well.

You don't find a little knife-play to be an undercurrent of sexual tension?

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Monday, June 2, 2014 11:04 PM

(I guess we're doing this now...)

Quote:
You don't find a little knife-play to be an undercurrent of sexual tension?

Tension, yes. Sexual... Maybe on Jayne's side. And only because Jayne has some irrepressible libido towards just about everything and everyone, heck someone even said they thought there might be sparks between Jayne and Simon.

Jayne and River never get their faces near each other, there's no light touches just to touch, there's no soft looks when they think no one's looking. They don't even have that fake belligerence and fake lack of understanding but they actually know each other very well that Mal and Inara use as a front to hide their feelings.

Jayne and River look at each other like strange annoying bugs they don't quite understand and they're pretty sure they don't want to understand. At best they have another reflection of the brother and bratty kid sister relationship as a contrast to her sibling relationship with Simon, like when she steals a roll and he glares at her, it's very familial. At worst they make threats and sometimes one gets stabbed and sometimes one almost gets arrested.

Crazy or not, River can do MUCH better than Jayne, and it's not really that fair to her to just match her up with the only reasonably young enough guy on the ship who's left over because everyone else is matched up or celibate. The girl's a genius, and she's psychic. She could find better matches in the hour or so she might get off ship.

Not to mention, I get the feeling that the latest comics introduced Bea as a potential interest for Jayne to intentionally try to head off all the Jayne/River.

Ultimately, the main problem with the pairing - besides the fact that kind of chemistry just isn't there at the moment - is that a heavy romance isn't really within the scope of their character archetypes. River is the beautiful mad oracle, whose plans can bring doom as much as fortune, and she acts much like a plot device into the bigger machinations going on in the verse. She directs our knight errant wandering crew at all the dark corners and conspiracies like a wrecking ball. Jayne is a gun-toting grenade loving cigar smoking muscle-bound hard ass whose main distinction from Mal is that he's a lot less moral, a lot less sensitive, and lot more violent. His vices and flaws are what makes Jayne "cool" to a lot of people. He's already happy just making coin and going to prostitutes, he doesn't NEED love. Giving Jayne and River mushy romance arcs actually diminishes the impact of their characters in the narrative.

All that said, River does have a vision in a short story that Jayne apparently gets into a relationship with SOMEONE, so it's not impossible. If someone wants to do some Jayne/River, that's fine, but they'll have to lay the groundwork pairing them up in their story themselves. Threatening to show someone their junk to prove they're a man and then an instance of said junk getting nearly ripped off during some triggered secret super soldier programming nonsense doesn't say wedding bells to me just yet.

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Tuesday, June 3, 2014 3:01 PM

Also:

Quote:
she opined that she would have liked to see River get her own ship and run her own business

I second this. I really want to see either River or Zoe get their own ship, because they're total badasses. River's more stable now, I could see her as a self-made space pirate eventually.

Plus, might make for some good plots. I've always thought River is more powerful the more vague and cryptic she is. Now that she's thinking clearly her powers are balanced by her tendency to outfox herself. Meaning plenty of chances for her to get herself into trouble.

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Wednesday, June 4, 2014 4:55 PM

Quote:
I can't see River ever having a 'normal' monogamous relationship, mostly because of the damage. Which is permanent, unless someone figures out how to regrow brain tissue.

I thought this too, but the comics seem to have decided that she's mostly better but still quirky now.

If the story moves on, even if it makes a plot hole, I have no choice really but to move on with it.

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Friday, June 13, 2014 3:45 AM

SHINYGOODGUY

Quote:
Originally posted by AURaptor:
Quote:
Originally posted by VeraSamuels:
Also Jayne has to be a good 20 years older than River. And she's 17 going on 18. That's....worrisome.

Not for Jayne it isn't.

Or maybe it is. Despite his crude nature, he doesn't ever make any real attempt to become more familiar w/ Kaylee OR River. None that we see, at least. Oh, he makes a couple of causal comments directed towards Kaylee, but who knows.

I always thought of Jayne's remarks toward Kaylee as a big brother teasing his little sister. I always think of the scene in the pilot, after Kaylee was shot by the Fed, when he was watching outside the infirmary while Simon was operating on her. He genuinely likes Kaylee.

I always got the impression that Jayne respected strength of character, people that stood up to him. Mal, Zoe, eventually Simon proved his worth and by the BDM he was sharing a drink with him (during Mal's Misbehave speech). I don't see him sexing River, just like I don't see him sexing Kaylee. Those are his little sisters, more importantly, they're part of the crew now.

SGG

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Friday, June 13, 2014 10:32 AM

If River were to save Jayne from his pending and inevitable doom, Jayne might start to change his perceptions about the benefits of watching each others back. It is the bond of being in the trenches together. That may have happened after Serenity. Without River closing the door from the outside they would have never made it. It is what Saffron referred to as the war buddy bond. She said it is a hard nut to crack when addressing Mal in the episode Trash.

Firefly - Serenity

si shen

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Friday, June 13, 2014 1:12 PM

VERASAMUELS

Jayne already been seen watching the backs of members of the crew before the BDM.

Devout Keeper of Jayne's Lunchbox

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Friday, June 13, 2014 1:42 PM

Ok, hello.

si shen

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Friday, June 13, 2014 5:16 PM

I think Jayne has a better perception of River now. Not crazy person anymore, he now knows she was the only one who did know what was going on, and now hen finally knows that too.

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Friday, June 13, 2014 7:34 PM

Quote:
I think Jayne has a better perception of River now. Not crazy person anymore, he now knows she was the only one who did know what was going on, and now hen finally knows that too.

Based on his haiku comment in the new comics and the scathing look River gives him, I think there's no love lost between those two. Their attitude towards each other is still pretty much just contempt.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:16 PM

Quote:
I kinda vote for Jayne and Simon. Together. As a couple.

Well, it'd probably be less of a disaster than other Jayne pairing possibilities I can think of. The absolute bottom of the barrel (literally) being Jayne x beer x gun.

Poor Kaylee though, all those pretty boys and none of them for her.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:23 PM

None of the crew has or ever will have eyes for Jayne. I believe he sleeps with a blowup doll under his bunk.

si shen

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 12:28 PM

Quote:
None of the crew has or ever will have eyes for Jayne. I believe he sleeps with a blowup doll under his bunk.

si shen

<_<

His guns have girl names, they have long cylindrical holes in them, and probably not all of them have rifling inside. He thought that Vera was a fair trade for a real woman. Also, he has all the cleaning kit lubrication stuff he needs right there.

Just saying. I don't think any of us really want to know much more than that.

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Saturday, June 14, 2014 2:05 PM

Quote:
Originally posted by BYTEMITE:
Quote:
None of the crew has or ever will have eyes for Jayne. I believe he sleeps with a blowup doll under his bunk.

si shen

<_<

His guns have girl names, they have long cylindrical holes in them, and probably not all of them have rifling inside. He thought that Vera was a fair trade for a real woman. Also, he has all the cleaning kit lubrication stuff he needs right there.

Just saying. I don't think any of us really want to know much more than that.

Point taken.

si shen

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Monday, June 16, 2014 9:38 AM