GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

(small) Issues and items I'd like resolved w/ Serenity

POSTED BY: AURAPTOR
UPDATED: Monday, August 9, 2004 08:32
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Saturday, August 7, 2004 6:22 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


No, not talking so much about Simon and Kaylee, or what the REAL story on Book is, but a couple of things that have kinda bugged me.

1.Visual effects - space scenes: There has to be a way of filming Serenity in better light or something that keeps her from becoming lost when being shot in proximity to another ship. In the pilot, Out of Gas and Bushwhacked, the scenes where the ships are docked up next to each other, its tough to clearly see which ship is which. Joss even spoke of this in one of the commentaries on the DVD.

2. The spoken line: Some of the funniest lines I've ever heard are from Firefly. All I really have an issue is that... sometimes, it seems the lines are spoken in such an casual, passing manner that I think some folks simply don't catch what is being said. Now, of COURSE one is bound to catch a few lines and exchanges when seeing the DVD over and over, but I wonder if it's just me who will stop and say " hey... THAT was funny! I didn't catch that before " . I know it's just me, grrrrr...I HATE that I have often wondered if such a small, subtle change like the delivery of a line 2 two would have snagged a few more folks. ( Yes,I KNOW....this is really nit pickin here)

Dang...that's it for now. If I think of any more, I'll add on.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Saturday, August 7, 2004 7:23 PM

GHOULMAN


I find that Firefly is a much more intimate show than expected (for me at least) in what you seem to see as understated. I can't help but think getting 'louder' is not the answer. The actors seem to be finding a real language with each other and, yeah, it seems that we only pick that up watching DVDs over and over *chuckle*, but when actors do that sheit reight... man, people notice. If only deep down. I think Firefly can do that. It's special no?

I love the FX of Zoic! to no end. Firefly FX are a real breakthrough in style with CGI ... a truely new FX experience and artistic standard! Believe it! Yeah, it is hard to see and it's out of focus.. wow, it's great to be confused instead of seeing toy ships flouting around (I've a nit pick about current space ships FX being waaay too phony). Have ya seen the new Battlestar Galactica FX? Woow... man, feel it! Er, well maybe all I'm saying is that space is dark and weird... go with it.

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Saturday, August 7, 2004 7:52 PM

OUTLANDER


Interesting points.

1. Visual effects - space scenes: I would assume that the Visual effects will be higher quality and resolution in the movie and that they will have more time and money to perfect the look of them. So I would guess that any small issue that anyone has with the effects in the series will not apply to the movie.

2. The spoken line: I know what you mean. Though I don't think it will be that big an issue with Serenity. I found that the delivery of the funny line on firefly to be more than adequate. I know that Joss Whedon can often put in a lot of in-jokes that some people might not get or that you have to think about for a couple of seconds before you get them. Though I find this more of an issue with Buffy than Firefly. I think Serenity will be written so it will be very accessible for the general public. Though I have to say, I think Firefly is already very accessible to the general public. All the people I have shown it to have all laughed at the appropriate moments.

I wouldn't worry.

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Saturday, August 7, 2004 8:07 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


replying to whats been said...

I agree that the visuals are great. Out of focus, zoom stuff... I love that. I guess it's the color and texture of the ships that sometimes blends them together that I had a ( small ) issue. As for the lines, it's not so much ' louder' that they need to be delievered, just ...from time to time more directed, or w/ a slight pause. As for the 'inside' jokes....or those that take a second or 2 to get to sink it... awesome. I'm a HUGE fan of Joss and Co for how they write/ deliver those.

I'm just bored and thinking of ways to kill time till April shows up, no biggie

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 9:17 AM

ARODIN


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
2. The spoken line: Some of the funniest lines I've ever heard are from Firefly. All I really have an issue is that... sometimes, it seems the lines are spoken in such an casual, passing manner that I think some folks simply don't catch what is being said.



Not sure what you're saying, but I think the casual, conversational manner that they deliver the lines with is a very big part of what's funny. I'd take subtle and witty over loud and goofy any day. Don't change a thing, says I.


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Sunday, August 8, 2004 9:50 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Perhaps there should be a laughter track?

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 10:09 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Perhaps there should be a laughter track?




Ouch!

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 12:05 PM

TRUTHSEEKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
The actors seem to be finding a real language with each other and, yeah, it seems that we only pick that up watching DVDs over and over *chuckle*, but when actors do that sheit reight... man, people notice. If only deep down. I think Firefly can do that. It's special no?



I agree that the pace of the dialog is different from your average show, and that makes it special. I'd compare it to watching Shakespeare: It might take your ears a few minutes to adjust, but with quality actors, you catch up pretty quickly, and the difference in the language style actually helps draw you into another world.
As for some of the subtleties only becoming apparent after multiple viewings, I'd say that's what makes Firefly so much better than most of the dreck you see on TV, and why we all care enough to hang out in cyberspace talking about all those subtleties. That doesn't mean that the uninitiated can't enjoy it, too. It just means that the layers of meaning reward closer attention.

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 1:10 PM

STARPILOTGRAINGER


I have to agree. I love that there are parts of Firefly that I didn't notice until the third or fourth viewing of an episode, whether it's lines, character movements, etc. It rewards rewatching.

The only issue I'd like to see resolved is for the people involved in production to understand the sense of scale in space. Too many 'really close, extremely slow flybys' without a good explanation in the series kind of annoyed me, and I want them to decide once and for all if it's one solar system or several, and stick to it.


Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6
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Sunday, August 8, 2004 4:35 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Originally posted by truthseeker:
Quote:


I agree that the pace of the dialog is different from your average show, and that makes it special. I'd compare it to watching Shakespeare: It might take your ears a few minutes to adjust, but with quality actors, you catch up pretty quickly, and the difference in the language style actually helps draw you into another world.
As for some of the subtleties only becoming apparent after multiple viewings, I'd say that's what makes Firefly so much better than most of the dreck you see on TV, and why we all care enough to hang out in cyberspace talking about all those subtleties. That doesn't mean that the uninitiated can't enjoy it, too. It just means that the layers of meaning reward closer attention.



Ok... I agree. Not even reluctantly either. Y'all have convinced me that the dialouge delivery isn't that big of an issue after all. It's unique, but not so much so that even the great unwashed ,err....uninitiated can't enjoy it.

But I still stand by the need to tinker a bit w/ the FX , espeicially in some space shots. The very good point about ships passing ridiculously close to one another while in deep deep space ( see: The Train Job ) needs to be taken care of, IMO.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 5:47 PM

CGREALMS


"As for the lines, it's not so much ' louder' that they need to be delievered, just ...from time to time more directed, or w/ a slight pause."
The problem with that is that it's very theatrical but not so much realistic. I see it in movies and sitcoms all the time, and it ALWAYS draws me out of the reality of what I'm watching. It's not such a big deal in a cartoonish universe like those of the 'Terminator' (Hasta la vista, baby!). But in a world that DEPENDS on the reality created to sell its premise, you can afford to use such stage gimmicks. If you're joking with friends, you don't pause for an imaginary audience. Nor shoot our BDHs. Either a character's witty and they'll be confident enough to know it or they don't understand what's so damn funny and shouldn't act like they do - Imagine if Adam Baldwin paused for effect everytime Jayne said something hilariously stupid; it'd kill the audience's belief in the character and add about twenty minutes to the running time:)

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 9:09 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by CGRealms:
Imagine if Adam Baldwin paused for effect everytime Jayne said something hilariously stupid; it'd kill the audience's belief in the character and add about twenty minutes to the running time


Well put. Reminds me of a post in another thread, a pitch (with dialogue) of Firefly redone as '"Friends", in Space'. Brilliantly sketched -- horrifying.

Put me down as prefering conversation to speechmaking. Firefly is chock full of the former, and the latter is scarce; that's part of why I love the show.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Allman Brothers Band,

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Sunday, August 8, 2004 9:20 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by StarPilotGrainger:
The only issue I'd like to see resolved is for the people involved in production to understand the sense of scale in space. Too many 'really close, extremely slow flybys' without a good explanation in the series kind of annoyed me, and I want them to decide once and for all if it's one solar system or several, and stick to it.


Me too. However, I don't mind if the Joss tries to keep it ambiguous, just so long as he knows what it's supposed to be, and doesn't let anything creep in that violates his premise. Last thing I want is a movie in which Serenity travels in space several times, over distances that are variously global, interplanetary, and interstellar.

Hint: Don't mention distances in space. Define trips in terms of time.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Marshall Tucker Band,

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Monday, August 9, 2004 1:12 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by YT:
Hint: Don't mention distances in space. Define trips in terms of time.


Yeah, don't make the mistake George Lucas did by saying the Millennium Falcon made the Kessel run in so many "parsecs." Parsec is a measure of distance, not time.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Monday, August 9, 2004 1:25 AM

WITLESSCHUM


I hope they don't change either of the things brought up. The grimy, not perfect FX are totally cool. It's like they still can't make things look perfectly real, but they're getting better at the imperfections that make something look real. I watched the "Hellboy" DVD this weekend and it's effects weren't bad, but they just reminded me of how good the Zoic crew did.

Plus, the off-handedness and just slipped in is cool. It's a reason "Firefly" is worth watching again and again. For a look at a Whedon line said wrong, look at Halle Berry's "When a toad gets struck by lighting..." comment in "X-Men" (Whedon talks about this in an interview with the Onion AV Club)

Dan

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Monday, August 9, 2004 3:51 AM

CALHOUN


Quote:

ecgordon wrote:
Monday, August 09, 2004 01:12
Quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by YT:
Hint: Don't mention distances in space. Define trips in terms of time.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Yeah, don't make the mistake George Lucas did by saying the Millennium Falcon made the Kessel run in so many "parsecs." Parsec is a measure of distance, not time.



The "Kessel run" is a run between 2 points but with a dense black hole region in the middle. Normal travel is made by a circuitous route around the intense gravitational feilds. Smugglers run the gauntlet and thread their way through the gravitational tides.

So, making the "Kessel run" in 12 parsecs might conceivably be a boast of shortest possible route?

Or maybe Lucas stuffed it up. He certainly stuffed up the first 2 prequels...


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Monday, August 9, 2004 4:34 AM

TRUTHSEEKER


Quote:

Originally posted by witlesschum:

Plus, the off-handedness and just slipped in is cool. It's a reason "Firefly" is worth watching again and again. For a look at a Whedon line said wrong, look at Halle Berry's "When a toad gets struck by lighting..." comment in "X-Men" (Whedon talks about this in an interview with the Onion AV Club)
Dan



Ah ha! Now that you've pointed out that that was a Joss line, I can totally hear how it was supposed to sound! Darn you Halle Berry! You couldn't be bothered to watch 3 episodes of Buffy to prepare?

The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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Monday, August 9, 2004 8:32 AM

WITLESSCHUM


Yeah, he says in the interview, which is pre-Firefly, IIRC, that his script was all gone except two lines. That one and "Prove it. You're a dick", which was the best pun in the movie. He also talks about how a lot of "Speed" but only a bit of "Twister" was his stuff.

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