GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Diversity of viewpoints among firefly fans

POSTED BY: DIEGO
UPDATED: Thursday, June 7, 2018 00:35
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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 2:16 PM

DIEGO


Hello all,

I just wanted to comment on one of the things I find fascinating about reading the discussions here in Browncoat World. That is the diversity of the fans who post here. It seems to me, although this is a very subjective observation, that Firefy Fans are amongst the more heterogeneous groups in sci-fi fandom.

I mean no offense to other science-fiction fans, but I think that many of them get into a very follower-oriented mind-set. Many seem to act like sheep always ready to believe what is told them or to end arguments with appeals to authority. It's the liveliness of the debates here is a wonderful thing that seems to set this group apart and to keep minds open. Case in point- the recent thread about the morality of the Independents. It's good to question the "good guys". I rather doubt that anyone who questioned the perfect benevolence of the Federation would receive a warm welcome on a Star Trek site.

A lot of the divergence in our beliefs are over interpretations of the show we all love. Is there one system, or multiple star systems? Is the Alliance really as evil as our heroes seem to believe? But some of our differences are about the real world. It looks like we have a full spectrum of political views with many sides making intelligent and passionate points about their deeply held beliefs. Sometimes it gets dirty or even petty, but I'm glad we browncoats can have these discussions.

Anway, I just wanted to share my pride in our eclectic little community. Feel free to argue the point if you like! ;)


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Tuesday, August 10, 2004 2:18 PM

DIEGO


Oops. There are far too many grammatical snafus in that post. I guess my sweeping pride distracted me from proper editing!! ;)

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 8:20 AM

BRUISERSMOM


Deapite you grammar mistake, I got your point anyway. It's a good point. I like it when people disagree with each other. It makes the discussion much more interesting than if someone makes a comment and everyone agrees or keeps their opinions to themselves if they disagree.

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:01 AM

FREMDFIRMA


A perfect utopia would immediately become less than perfect as boredom would cause mass suicide simple for the (admittedly VERY short) entertainment value.

Without conflict, there is no progress, without progress there is stagnation, and stagnation becomes decay and ultimately destruction.

Kiss an anarchist today.

-F

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:07 AM

DIEGO


Quote:

Originally posted by BruisersMom:
Deapite you grammar mistake, I got your point anyway. It's a good point. I like it when people disagree with each other. It makes the discussion much more interesting than if someone makes a comment and everyone agrees or keeps their opinions to themselves if they disagree.



Thanks. The predilection for debate is one of the truly attractive things about the Firefly community as it is in the scientific community. I'm glad to be a member of both.

Of course, I'm not surprised that there is little response to this thread. It's kind of a logical trap. People could respond "Yup, that's a good sentiment, it's nice to argue." But that would be the sort of agreeing that would be most boring.

On the other hand one could disagree and say that it's a bad thing to disagree which would then reflect poorly on whoever posted that message. Hmm, next time I'll have to start a more controversial or otherwise objectionable thread!

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 2:48 PM

TRUTHSEEKER


Quote:

Originally posted by Diego:
Of course, I'm not surprised that there is little response to this thread. It's kind of a logical trap. People could respond "Yup, that's a good sentiment, it's nice to argue." But that would be the sort of agreeing that would be most boring.

On the other hand one could disagree and say that it's a bad thing to disagree which would then reflect poorly on whoever posted that message. Hmm, next time I'll have to start a more controversial or otherwise objectionable thread!



How about I neatly sidestep your logic trap by hypothesizing on why people of such diverse beliefs/ backgrounds/ etc. would all be drawn to Firefly, and why they would also be inclined to carry on intelligent conversations about their differences?

My theory is that because FF is, at its center, about widely diverse people who come together and form a family, the audience base is widely diverse because we can all find someone to identify with, or we identify with multiple characters for different reasons.

Also, I think one of the aspects that the FF audience is drawn to is the very fact that in the FF 'verse, there are no easy answers. At some level we all seem to respond to the intellectual challenges and moral ambiguities of the 'verse.

So, appreciating the complexities of the FF 'verse, we are also stimulated by the opportunity to explore the complexities of our own through our debates.

On the other hand, the nature of cyberspace also allows us to preserve the civility of our dialog by deciding how much we want to join in. There are some threads, say in the Real World section, which I haven't read at all because I know I'd probably disagree too strongly with someone, and it would annoy me too much to debate the issue intelligently. There may be others who stick strictly to polls and threads about favorite scenes, lines, etc. depending on their comfort level.

To summarize: diverse characters in a complex world + a diverse audience who appreciate complexity and enjoy engaging in stimulating conversations at a level comfortable for them = FFF.net
QED

The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 4:42 PM

DIEGO


Quote:

Originally posted by truthseeker:


To summarize: diverse characters in a complex world + a diverse audience who appreciate complexity and enjoy engaging in stimulating conversations at a level comfortable for them = FFF.net
QED

The woods are the only place where I can see a clear path.



Beautifully put, truthseeker. Those points are largely coincident with my beliefs about the fans here. But you articulated it far better than I could.

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:23 PM

SUCCATASH



I think most of the people here are assholes.



JK




"Gott kann dich nicht vor mir beschuetzen, weil ich nicht boese bin."

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 5:35 PM

KUKOO


I had actually posted this a while back on another political thread, where it was suggested I put it on its own thread because it was off topic as it talks about the differences amoungst firefly fans viewpoints.

"This may be slightly off-topic, but I have always thought it was interesting how Firefly Fans seem to be at such opposite ends of the political spectrum. I believe the reason why is in the way Fans view the Alliance.

Liberals tend to view the Alliance as the end result of the path the Bush Administration has set us on. Declaring that the Geneva Convention isn't applicable to the war, creating a new name for prisoners and criminals so they can throw the Bill of Rights out the window and hold them indefinetly, being able to shroud key policy meetings in a viel of secrecy so that the public cannot determine how decisions were made and the build-up and reckless use of the Armed Forces. Under this theory, River and Simon were probably listed as "enemy combatants" by the Alliance.

Conservatives tend to view the Alliance as the end result of too big a government with too much control over our daily lives. i.e. too many social programs and laws regulating behavior and business. Mals quote about governments being there to get in a mans way would support this theory.

I think the Alliance is a mixture of both. It is the worst aspects of the two current parties rolled into one. It is as if the special interests (maybe the forerunners to the Blue Sun Group) took over both parties and pushed them into one. The point of a 2 party system is to balance each other out, and the absence of a second party is what makes the Alliance so scary and powerful. "


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Thursday, August 12, 2004 7:53 PM

MACBAKER


Quote:

Originally posted by kukoo:
I think the Alliance is a mixture of both. It is the worst aspects of the two current parties rolled into one. It is as if the special interests (maybe the forerunners to the Blue Sun Group) took over both parties and pushed them into one. The point of a 2 party system is to balance each other out, and the absence of a second party is what makes the Alliance so scary and powerful. "




I agree with you, but I also feel the current two party system is deadlocked and stagnant. We need a viable moderate third party to shake things up and swing votes between the partisan "liberal" and "conservative" parties that have the country's voters so divided.

It amazes me how tight the current election seems to be heading, and how close the last one was. My problem with most presidental elections in my lifetime is, I'm voting for the lessor of two poor choices, instead of the best person for the job! Does anyone really feel Bush or Kerry is the best choice to lead our country? Many voters that will vote for Kerry, are really voting against Bush, and vice versa. They won't be placing their vote FOR a candidate, but voting against the candidate they feel is the bigger risk.

The real winner here, isn't the voters, it's "The Blue Sun" (the corps and special interest groups) that both parties cater to like the whores they really are! We are heading towards that "Alliance", and the only way to really avoid it, is to demand a third party that makes sense, and one that represents the voter, not big money contributors and special interest groups!

BTW: Rush Limbaugh and Michael Moore aren't the cure, they are symtoms of the desease!

I think we all want pretty much the same thing, but we don't really know if our government is capable of meeting those needs. Some believe the Democrats, while others put their hopes with the Republicians, and some (like me) don't think either party is capable of the leadership we need, or really cares what the average American thinks. We get divided over issues, but we all want a world that is safe! Where jobs are secure, and inflation and taxes don't bury us! Where our children get good educations and have the opportunity to live peaceful happy productive lives. We aren't really that different. We all want what Mal wants! Freedom and "Serenity"!

Quoting Dennis Miller: "That's just my opinion, I could be wrong!"



I'd given some thought to movin' off the edge -- not an ideal location -- thinkin' a place in the middle.

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 9:37 PM

KRAMER




Quote:

How about I neatly sidestep your logic trap by hypothesizing on why people of such diverse beliefs/ backgrounds/ etc. would all be drawn to Firefly, and why they would also be inclined to carry on intelligent conversations about their differences?

My theory is that because FF is, at its center, about widely diverse people who come together and form a family, the audience base is widely diverse because we can all find someone to identify with, or we identify with multiple characters for different reasons.



Excellent!!!!!!


I'll be in my bunk........

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:27 PM

ZOID


Greetings Fellow Browncoats:

The thing that most resonates for me about Firefly is the theme of doing what it takes to "keep on keepin' on". For many Americans (and Brits, too, from first-hand knowledge), finding work and keeping it, and then putting food on the table and a roof over the heads of a family is a Sisyphean task. I have a saying, "Forget about making ends meet, I'm happy if I can get 'em close enough to wave hi at each other." (Steal it, if you fancy it).

Beneath every episode is that palpable but rarely expressed fear of destitution. That's why Simon is an outsider: He can't relate to the constant threat of imminent poverty the way Mal, Zoe, Jayne and Kaylee can. We see the crew socializing and bonding while feasting on gruel that almost certainly contains recycled human waste matter.

Yet, they are a family, wouldn't you agree? "Just keep flying" is an apt mission statement for a vast number of American families; a number that's growing every year as the gap between the richest and poorest segments of our society widens and the 'middle class' is only the wistful nomenclature of a rosier past. It's strictly the 'Haves' and the 'Have Nots' these days, and neither political party in this country has any right to claim moral superiority on that issue.

Which is why FFFn has a separate "Real World Events" (read: political) discussion board. I truly dislike regurgitated political dogma mixed into my entertainments like 'protein paste' made into a birthday cake. Political debates invariably turn nasty, and the reason is obvious: The adherents of both parties seem to have a dearth of original thoughts. Stop numbly believing everything you hear. Assume that the goal is to grease the rail for the common man, to the greater profit of the 'Haves', regardless which party of Eloi wins. The choice is strictly cosmetic, and facile in any case...


Regretfully,

zoid
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 251 days, 20 hours, 41 minutes, and 2 seconds left until The BDM!

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Thursday, August 12, 2004 10:43 PM

PURPLEBELLY


'Tash, are you sure you're talking to the right Board?

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Friday, August 13, 2004 12:22 AM

DRAKON


Quote:

Originally posted by kukoo:
"This may be slightly off-topic, but I have always thought it was interesting how Firefly Fans seem to be at such opposite ends of the political spectrum. I believe the reason why is in the way Fans view the Alliance.

Liberals tend to view the Alliance as the end result of the path the Bush Administration has set us on. Declaring that the Geneva Convention isn't applicable to the war, creating a new name for prisoners and criminals so they can throw the Bill of Rights out the window and hold them indefinetly, being able to shroud key policy meetings in a viel of secrecy so that the public cannot determine how decisions were made and the build-up and reckless use of the Armed Forces. Under this theory, River and Simon were probably listed as "enemy combatants" by the Alliance.

Conservatives tend to view the Alliance as the end result of too big a government with too much control over our daily lives. i.e. too many social programs and laws regulating behavior and business. Mals quote about governments being there to get in a mans way would support this theory.

I think the Alliance is a mixture of both. It is the worst aspects of the two current parties rolled into one. It is as if the special interests (maybe the forerunners to the Blue Sun Group) took over both parties and pushed them into one. The point of a 2 party system is to balance each other out, and the absence of a second party is what makes the Alliance so scary and powerful. "


Good point. I know I see something like the alliance coming about or the resulting end state of the opposition's political views. And I am sure the oppositions will say exactly the same about my side of the debate.

So what is fundamental? What is the goal? OR better yet where in the "field of grey" is the balance point between anarchy (which precludes civilization or even benefitical co-existence) and a totalitarian state that has absolute control over every aspect of human endevour? How do you get there, to that "tween" state?

I think that question can be answered by going a bit deeper philosophically. Recognizing certain key features of human (indeed biological) existence. Which has primacy? The mind and our ideas, or the physical aspects of reality? Which is the real thing, the individual or the group, and which is mental construct that we utilize in order to survive, thrive and allow us to grow and be happy?

Due to work, I have not, and cannot be on nearly as much as I was in the past. Sadly that is how life is.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, August 13, 2004 12:40 AM

SHEPHERDQ


ok, So I am an odd duck...
Me.. I see the Alliance as the end result of business running things. More and more we find special interest groups dumping money and pull to what they want. We see news media owned by a few, and often saying only the part of a story they want us to see, and they tell us how we should feel about it. Plase no bashing, but as an example, not long ago, in the news was a statement about Gays being allowed to wed. The comment was " it will destroy the the sanctity marrage is based on " ok now exactly HOW that is to effect my marrage?
The other comment was.. " if we allow gays to marry, next they will want us to allow marrage to children by pediphiles".. Huh? the link in logic to that is where?
The news media wants to control us, the business wants to control us .. ( yes, sure , uh huh , I believe the major oil companies are working HARD to find alternate energy source ). Oh sorry, the oil tanker sank yesterday so he have to raise prices 10 cents for a few months due to the shortage. So lets build bigger trucks and cars to suck up more gas.. Lets even give tax breaks on HumVees ( yes there is,, it is about using it for business ).
soooo yep, I see it as business taking over, doing the research they want, using any force to keep it and exploit it. Who is making the major race for space... Private business.. Plans of " Joy rides, low orbit habitats, Japan even has full plans for moon bases including getting water from rocks ( no joke ).. Where we all sleeping when all the satellites went up in space? Who put them there? Us? Nope. Russians? Nope.. how bout a space port closer to the equator that has several launces a week putting up packages. ( started in 1968 and has over 460 succesful launches ) Every see anything of it in the news?
Up the news media shows us only what it wants us to see.. and business is a driving force. The poiitics are a joke. " Sure he is a liar, he is a politician" They can promise anything they want, they are NOT accountable when they do something different in office. They are there for the bucks and ego.
If the senators and congressmen where only paid IF they attended 95 % of the votes on issues AND voted for what they were elected for.. NONE would be paid.. watch CNN and note how many empty seats there are all the time.. ( ooooooo I called my vote in ) hard work if you can get it.
Alliance? Ledt? Right? nope.. business greed.

The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabby.com

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Friday, August 13, 2004 12:56 AM

DRAKON


Quote:

Originally posted by MacBaker:
I agree with you, but I also feel the current two party system is deadlocked and stagnant. We need a viable moderate third party to shake things up and swing votes between the partisan "liberal" and "conservative" parties that have the country's voters so divided.

As I have attempted to point out before and elsewhere, the only way you can make a viable third party is to get enough popular support. I don't think money has that much effect, but then it appears I have a higher opinion of the American voters than many folks I have talked to.

You need to appeal to voters, you cannot force them to vote your way. That means listening to them and tailoring your message to address their concerns in a way that they understand. It also means meaning what you are telling them. Americans know BS when they hear it.
Quote:

The real winner here, isn't the voters, it's "The Blue Sun" (the corps and special interest groups) that both parties cater to like the whores they really are! We are heading towards that "Alliance", and the only way to really avoid it, is to demand a third party that makes sense, and one that represents the voter, not big money contributors and special interest groups!
You can demand till you are blue in the face, but if the voters don't vote for you, for whatever reason, you ain't gonna get it. You have to remember that all you got is persuasion. You cannot, in a democracy resort to any kind of coercion, and even attempting to will simply turn the voters off, give them an excuse to write you off and ignore you.

I see a lot of talk about corporations and special interest groups, but I think this is done mostly by ignoring what those groups are. They are essentially nothing but people exercising their right to free association, banding together in order to acheive their goals. Their goals and policies may not be yours, but they do feel strongly about them and are willing to work together to achieve them.

These groups see a problem and are exercizing their First Amendment rights and working to be heard. Whether you agree or disagree with their policies or proposals, if you want to stop them, you have to act within your rights, without denying theirs.

In short, the only way to get rid of such groups is to outlaw a freedom. The freedom to assemble, the freedom to speak out. You disagree, but the solution is to form your own "special interest", attract funding and support and lobby. Do the same thing they are doing. If you want to limit their rights, you have to be extremely careful that does not come back and bite you.
Quote:

I think we all want pretty much the same thing, but we don't really know if our government is capable of meeting those needs. Some believe the Democrats, while others put their hopes with the Republicians, and some (like me) don't think either party is capable of the leadership we need, or really cares what the average American thinks. We get divided over issues, but we all want a world that is safe! Where jobs are secure, and inflation and taxes don't bury us! Where our children get good educations and have the opportunity to live peaceful happy productive lives. We aren't really that different. We all want what Mal wants! Freedom and "Serenity"!
True enough. The difference is not in the goals but how we achieve them. Which methods work, and which cures are in fact worse than the disease? Are some goals mutually exclusive, or are some more important than others? Its one thing to bemoan the fact that one's positions are not more popular, but its another thing to try and fix that. Or ask the potentially more important question, is it possible that the reason the public has rejected it, is that one's own policies are simply wrong, unworkable, or in some other way, contrary to thier best interests?

A lot of folks are very sure they are right, and everyone else is wrong. That can become an article of faith, instead as impetus to recheck one's reasoning, or re-think one's positions. They see the opposition as the enemy, and will often find all kinds of excuses to not look inward, but blame it on some kind of cheating or other nefariousness. Never ourselves, but the other's fault.

Now granted, all ideas start off as minority opinions, but those ideas that are true, or are workable, have an advantage over those ideas that are false, or don't work. And voters are capable of recognizing what is true and what is false, what works and what don't. Or to put it another way, the truth wins out eventually.

If you are right in your policies and proposals, you got nothing to worry about. You'll win eventually. If you are wrong, that may be why it is so hard to win that public approval necessary to achieve political power in our democracy. It is something that should be taken into account. The fact that other groups and organizations, special interests and corporations, are more successful than you, no matter how much you may dislike them or their policies, may be a sign that they are doing something right. Whether it is style, or content, that is something you will have to investigate.

"Wash, where is my damn spaceship?"

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Friday, August 13, 2004 3:33 AM

DIETCOKE


I couldn't agree with you more. The fans of this show are a very diverse group of people who like it for very different reasons.


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Friday, August 13, 2004 4:22 AM

GHOULMAN


I feel the need to point out... especially now, that there is an army of avatars out there posing as Sci-Fi fans... but they are not.

They are part of a sort of "whisper campaign" to spread their "message" out onto the Net. This includes Right Wing operations out of Republican think tanks to FOX marketing weasels trying to create anti-Joss sentimate online.

Don't think for a second this BBS isn't a hotbed of paid opinions. It is.

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Friday, August 13, 2004 6:33 AM

ZOID



Ghoulman wrote:
Quote:

I feel the need to point out... especially now, that there is an army of avatars out there posing as Sci-Fi fans... but they are not.

They are part of a sort of "whisper campaign" to spread their "message" out onto the Net. This includes Right Wing operations out of Republican think tanks to FOX marketing weasels trying to create anti-Joss sentimate online.

Don't think for a second this BBS isn't a hotbed of paid opinions. It is.


And to think, people have accused me of being a conspiracy theorist. I humbly bow to my obvious master...

v/r,
zed

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Friday, August 13, 2004 6:39 AM

HERO


Quote:

Originally posted by Ghoulman:
I feel the need to point out... especially now, that there is an army of avatars out there posing as Sci-Fi fans... but they are not.

They are part of a sort of "whisper campaign" to spread their "message" out onto the Net. This includes Right Wing operations out of Republican think tanks to FOX marketing weasels trying to create anti-Joss sentimate online.



Thats not fair. Yes I'm part of the "whisper campaign" and get regular talking points faxed to me daily on FOX letterhead from the Oval Office. But I'm as big a fan of Firefly as they come.

Just because there is a conspiracy to spread the "message" does not mean the message is incorrect. You're just mad because we wont let you join.

So call me a conservative, call me a member of the "vast right wing" conspiracy. But don't you ever question my love for this series.

Besides, since we conservatives are all powerful and rule the entire world with the exception of the Lifetime Movie Network and France, do you really think this little fan club caused the movies to get greenlighted? Believe me, this movie was going nowhere till "we" decided it was going to happen. FOX owned the rights to Firefly, remember...

H

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Friday, August 13, 2004 6:41 AM

GHOULMAN


^^^
HERO - ever hear of ethics?

Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
And to think, people have accused me of being a conspiracy theorist. I humbly bow to my obvious master...


.. it's old news. Not a conspiracy theory... it's fact (as HERO seems to confirm). Been going on online for years... prolly most memorably on the Slashdot.org site in years past.

This is, as mature Net readers/posters know, an ongoing campaign technique used online for years.

It is fundementally a sad time when the great text community of the Net can't be trusted to be filled with anything more than paid for polemics and marketing bullplop from an army of morally apathetic bastards who think rat-f*cking actual fans of some TV show (let alone trolling people for having a political opinion) is anything more than a vicious attack on the very people who "they" seek to brain wash.

If you think the Firefly fanbase is diverse I gotta wonder just how skewed that perception is thanks to an Internet full of "sock puppets" claiming to be actual fans.

That is... actual humans.

Sheriff:"Then a mans got a choice".
Mal: "I don't believe he does".

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Friday, August 13, 2004 7:10 AM

LTNOWIS


So, Kukoo thinks the Alliance is the end result of the 2 party system, and SheperdQ thinks they're the result of business greed. Both great ideas, highly likely, but let's not forget about the Chinese here. I think there's a lot of good ol' Chinese authoritarianism mixed in too. Nowadays, the Commies in China are pretty laid back, dogma-wise. They merely demand that people not threaten the government, complain about the government, or publish uncensored news. They're doing a lot of things with floating trains and space travel too. Recently, they put a man in space, and there's a maglev in Shanghai.

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Friday, August 13, 2004 9:42 AM

WITLESSCHUM


I noticed that too, especially with the links to heavy libertarians who love. I think of myself as far left (for an American). Although I wonder how lockstep the fans of, say, "Babylon 5" are. I've seen conservatives and liberal on other forums both say positive things about the show.

I also post under the same name at www.ornery.org which is a site owned by Orson Scott Card, whose fan base is similarly widely divergent in ideas.

The comments about China seem fairly right on, they seem to be conducting a willful experiment to combine the worst parts of capitalism and communism as economic ordering principles, while keeping the repression at moderate (for a dictatorship) level. (That's putting them on a scale where Russia in the 1930s is one end and someplace like the United Arab Emirates is the other)

Maybe the Alliance in the Firefly is the logical end result of that. Although I'm somewhat of an agnostic about how repressive the Alliance really is, at least on the Core worlds. Most of the direct evidence for bad-acting by them are on the outer planets.

Dan

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 4:42 PM

DIETCOKE


Well said. Can't say anything more. Other then, thank you.

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 5:37 PM

PIRATEJENNY


Quote:

Nowadays, the Commies in China are pretty laid back, dogma-wise. They merely demand that people not threaten the government, complain about the government, or publish uncensored news


sounds alot like America under our current administration

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Saturday, August 14, 2004 7:12 PM

TENTHCREWMEMBER

Could you please just make it stranger? Stranger. Odder. Could be weirder. More bizarre. How about uncanny?


Quote:

Originally posted by LtNOWIS:
So, Kukoo thinks the Alliance is the end result of the 2 party system, and SheperdQ thinks they're the result of business greed.



Here's a spin...not that I believe this to be true for the show but...

What if the Alliance *was* actually a good group of factions and had their regular elections and everything, but once upon a time all those people just a little too far from the core decided they would rather have local authority than a system wide authority, and picked a fight with the Alliance, who was then forced to not only quell insurrection, but defend themselves against an aggressor?

Over time, the war escalates, spreading from one world to the next because the Browncoats can't go toe-to-toe in numbers, so they have to keep spreading the Alliance out and taking as many as they can out. The Alliance is left no choice but to eradicate and move on, otherwise its Citizenry begins to complain they are not being protected (hence why they became so heavy-handed, such as that scene at the opening of "Serenity").

And now the final feather in their cap...after the Independents surrendered, did the Alliance go forth and round up all the people who fought against them, or the people that aided them, and execute them or throw them in jail? No. They allowed them to re-enter society and live out their lives so long as they do it by Alliance laws (as evident by the numerous Browncoats...Mal, Zoe, Tracey, Monty...and statements such as the one by the drunk in the bar about how all the Independents *should have* been killed off every world spinning).

They're not bad, they just have a poor fashion designer. ;)

Okay, enough devil's advocate...down with the Alliance!...those ruttin' oppressive gorramned purplebelly Nazi wannabes! LOL!...now I feel better...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
BROWNCOATS! Rise again and promote Firefly/Serenity!
visit: http://the11thhour.home.att.net

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Sunday, August 15, 2004 6:35 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


The six FFF that that I know personally are WAAAAY far to the left of center, and none of the five Libertarians/ survivalists/ conservative Republicans that I know are FF fans. (In fact, nobody in that group watches science fiction at all.) So is the preponderance of right-wingers here representative of the FF fans as a whole? I don't know- what do you think?

BTW- thanks for pointing out the Orson Scott Card website. He's one of my favorite authors!


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Friday, August 20, 2004 1:26 AM

WITLESSCHUM


www.hatrack.com is his main one, don't know if you've seen that or not.

He's real hit or miss with me, but when he's on, it's damn good.

Dan

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Friday, August 20, 2004 6:06 AM

LOSTINTHEVERSE


My question, Sygnym, is where are you on the conservative/liberal spectrum? A persons personal sample is skewed based on their own politic. (people, in general, like people who agree with them) I'm currently a registered republican, though idealogically I'm more of a centerist libertarian, with a lot of very liberal friends (yay college), and my friends who are fans fall pretty evenly along the conservative/liberal spectrum. Granted, I've had a hand in converting a lot them to the browncoat cause ::grin::, but I don't see political alignment as a true factor in liking or disliking the show. But my sample for this argument is might also skewed as I may have more conservative friends than some other people, so who really knows?

~ Lost In The 'Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"

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Friday, August 20, 2004 6:06 AM

LOSTINTHEVERSE


My question, Sygnym, is where are you on the conservative/liberal spectrum? A persons personal sample is skewed based on their own politic. (people, in general, like people who agree with them) I'm currently a registered republican, though idealogically I'm more of a centerist libertarian, with a lot of very liberal friends (yay college), and my friends who are fans fall pretty evenly along the conservative/liberal spectrum. Granted, I've had a hand in converting a lot them to the browncoat cause ::grin::, but I don't see political alignment as a true factor in liking or disliking the show. But my sample for this argument is might also skewed as I may have more conservative friends than some other people, so who really knows?

~ Lost In The 'Verse

"About a year before we met, I spent 6 months on a moon where the primary form of recreation was juggling geese. My hand to god. Baby geese. Goslings. They were juggled!"

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Friday, August 20, 2004 6:44 AM

SIGNYM

I believe in solving problems, not sharing them.


I'm pretty far to the left myself, but the people I'm refering to are colleagues at work so I assume that it's an unbiased sample. (Well, it's biased because of location and education level, but not biased by my associational choices!)

The weird thing is, the people that I know who like FF are chemists (with one exception) and the ppl who don't watch scific at all are engineers (with one exception). Now, what does THAT say???

Better living through chemistry?

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 12:28 PM

JAYNEZTOWN

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Sunday, November 22, 2015 1:23 PM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


The only reason I'd want to have a drink with Trump or Carson is to see if what they say drunk is in any way close to what they say when they're sober. Or are they actually sober now when a camera/mike is pointed their way?



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Thursday, June 7, 2018 12:35 AM

JJ


Quote:

Originally posted by Diego:
Hello all,

I just wanted to comment on one of the things I find fascinating about reading the discussions here in Browncoat World. That is the diversity of the fans who post here. It seems to me, although this is a very subjective observation, that Firefy Fans are amongst the more heterogeneous groups in sci-fi fandom.

I mean no offense to other science-fiction fans, but I think that many of them get into a very follower-oriented mind-set. Many seem to act like sheep always ready to believe what is told them or to end arguments with appeals to authority. It's the liveliness of the debates here is a wonderful thing that seems to set this group apart and to keep minds open. Case in point- the recent thread about the morality of the Independents. It's good to question the "good guys". I rather doubt that anyone who questioned the perfect benevolence of the Federation would receive a warm welcome on a Star Trek site.

A lot of the divergence in our beliefs are over interpretations of the show we all love. Is there one system, or multiple star systems? Is the Alliance really as evil as our heroes seem to believe? But some of our differences are about the real world. It looks like we have a full spectrum of political views with many sides making intelligent and passionate points about their deeply held beliefs. Sometimes it gets dirty or even petty, but I'm glad we browncoats can have these discussions.

Anway, I just wanted to share my pride in our eclectic little community. Feel free to argue the point if you like! ;)




T

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