GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Shepard Book's Past

POSTED BY: SHANYU
UPDATED: Monday, October 4, 2004 17:24
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 4568
PAGE 1 of 1

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:23 PM

SHANYU


This is a thread for you to post your theorys about the connection between Book and the alliance and what Jubal (if you dont know who he is watch the movies again and again and again) may have meant about him not being a shepard(he seemed to know quite a bit about the entire crew)and of course how he knows so much about fugitives such as Niska... We'll id like to hear your thoughts and i bet you all would like to hear each others so start posting.



-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:40 PM

SGTGUMP


You see, the thing about Book is, he's a preacher.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:45 PM

MICHIZURE


Personally, I find it interesting that Book apparently dropped "out of the world" sometime just after the end of the Unification War. He's competent in a fight, well informed, and well connected, but initially he wasn't prepared for how rough life can be on the edge.

I'm guessing he's an Alliance official from somewhere in the core worlds, who saw a little too much during the war, suffered a crisis of conscience, found solace in the abbey, and was looking to atone through good deeds. Like any plan, however, his didn't exactly survive contact with reality. I think he's sincere and truthful about his current vocation: Jubal tended to cast everything in metaphor, rather than literally.

Oh, and: Book's comment that he was never married and so is not a "grandpa" is directly parallel to the character of Mr. Peacock (the whiskey salesman) in Stagecoach, who repeatedly tells people that he is not a preacher and so should not be called "Reverend."

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:51 PM

SHANYU


Quote:

Originally posted by sgtgump:
You see, the thing about Book is, he's a preacher.




He is a sheperd They say it right on the show... watch it again.

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:51 PM

WULFHAWK


...And there's nothing concrete about his past mentioned in the series. Sure, his ident gets him instant VIP medical care on a random purplebelly ship, and he's immediately recognized by passing psychotic bounty hunters, and fearlessly faces both a triggerhappy Alliance agent and our own Jayne, and shoots a gun with casual expertise, and...

oh, and he's a preacher.

Take my love
Take my land

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 4:56 PM

SHANYU


Doesnt he say or call himself a shepard?

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 5:45 PM

AGEHN


Book is referred to as and refers to himself as a shepherd several times. It's his official title, not reverend or preacher.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 21, 2004 9:14 PM

SHEPHERDQ


OK , based on abilities and knowledge of weapons, and ships ( knowing what drag marks a ship leaves ) knows about bad things in the black and bad characters, and the recognition of his ident card.
Sooooo he was of goodly rank during the war but was on the side of the alliance.
I am thinking he saw too much or had to take part in too much and as soon as he could, he left and to heal himself and find peace went to Southdown Abbey and became a shepherd. The bounty hunter saw the alliance side of him and that is why he said he was no shepherd.
Now is has decided to leave the Abbey and walk the world awhile, continuing to put himself together. One his first day out he beats up a cop, swears to defend the cop and fails and over all has a bad day. during the scenes with River seeing into peoples heads, they are all past events ( except the erotic play on the bridge that gets to her). Books comment about " I don't give half a hump if you are innocent or not, so where does that put you" strikes me as being his dark past when he was alliance. Perhaps he was taking out his ire on someone that had sent him to do horrendous things in the war and was not going to give the man that gave the orders a taste of his own medicine.
soo
WAS alliance
NOW Shepherd and still trying to find himself

note.. Shepherd is the opposite of Mel...
In the war Mel lost his faith
In the war Book found his faith


The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabbey.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 22, 2004 2:13 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Quote:

Originally posted by ShepherdQ:
note.. Shepherd is the opposite of Mel...
In the war Mel lost his faith
In the war Book found his faith


Who's Mel?




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 22, 2004 4:01 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:

Who's Mel?


Wasn't she one of the Space Girls vocal combo?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 22, 2004 5:23 PM

WULFHAWK


He was referred to as a preacher nearly as often as shephard, and never once did he complain or protest. Shephard is not a religious appellation we have today, but clearly refers to a religious guide...a preacher.

And my pet theory is he was a Mob enforcer/assassin in his past. This could account for 1) knowledge of and skill with firearms 2) knowledge and skill with crime and criminals 3)knowledge of law enforcement 4)knowledge and experience with travel 5)mysterious government influence, as in a witness protection program.

Huh? whatcha think?

Take my love
Take my land

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 22, 2004 8:02 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by Michizure:
Personally, I find it interesting that Book apparently dropped "out of the world" sometime just after the end of the Unification War. He's competent in a fight, well informed, and well connected, but initially he wasn't prepared for how rough life can be on the edge.



That lack of preparation made me think that he had been "out of the world" for a lot longer than the six years between the War & the pilot ep. Was there some dialogue that locates his seclusion to after the War?

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Jupiter Coyote, "Amorous", from "Live"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 22, 2004 11:05 PM

SHEPHERDQ


Quote:

Originally posted by ShepherdQ:

note.. Shepherd is the opposite of Mel...
In the war Mel lost his faith
In the war Book found his faith



OK OK OK so lack of sleep and I typo and E... jeezzz
ok it should read MAL

The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabbey.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:30 AM

RETARDOSAUR


It could be possible that hes some kind of genetically modified super human from some lab, but at the end of the war he was considered to dangerous to be kept so they shipped him to the abbey for conditioning.
However he still keeps the military knowledge that he was given
I know its a little far fetched but i think its going to be really out of the box as to where hes from and why he has the knowledge

Its quite simple im a retarded dinosaur

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2004 2:26 AM

MICHIZURE


Quote:

Originally posted by YT:
That lack of preparation made me think that he had been "out of the world" for a lot longer than the six years between the War & the pilot ep. Was there some dialogue that locates his seclusion to after the War?


Apparently not. The script says "a spell," which is a lot vaguer than I recalled.

Call it my impression, then: Book doesn't seem like the sort to sit out the war in an abbey. He'd pick a side and back it, until and unless he hit a Significant Emotional Event to change his mind.

The original script also says he's from farmer stock, with workingman's hands, which negates my theory that he was of too high rank to have gotten his hands dirty before.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:14 AM

CYBERSNARK


To remind everyone of my observational bit of evidence so it can be ignored again:

http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=5844

In short, Book knows how to read a brainscan.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2004 4:27 AM

CARDIE


My theory, repeated in numerous threads here, is that he did the same kind of work that the movie's Operative does. That is, he was someone who tracked down people the Alliance wanted to get hold of.

I think that what ended up happening to those people, or at least one of those people, was finally more than his conscience could bear. So he quit his job and joined the abbey.

"Shepherd" as a title for a preacher makes perfect sense, as the Bible is full of metaphors in which the Lord is seen as a shepherd watching out for his flock, i.e. people on Earth.

I really don't think we're meant to assume the Book tends sheep.

Cardie

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2004 12:35 PM

SHANYU


Ok guys here is my theory, Book at one point was in the alaince military, When he quit he was a high ranking officer with many talents, but for part of the war he was a fighter. and in his time in the military he killed too many people and he trying to escape the world he was once in... one of the people he kill was mal's younger brotehr or sister at one point( i know it dont say this in the show that he had siblings another one of my therporys i posted in the jaynes brotehr forum http://www.fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=2&t=7200) and i think they would make an episode where mal finds out that book or ppl book was in charge of somethgin like that killed his sibling and or entire family.

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 23, 2004 8:18 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by ShanYu:
a high ranking officer with many talents


Isn't that an oxymoron? Or had the Alliance military a less politically driven staff cadre than the systems we know and pay for?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 3:23 AM

MICHIZURE


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Isn't that an oxymoron? Or had the Alliance military a less politically driven staff cadre than the systems we know and pay for?


You think surviving to reach the top in a politically driven system doesn't take many talents?

They are just different talents than in a strictly functional or merit-based system.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 4:10 AM

ZOID



PurpleBelly:

You are, without a doubt, my favorite devil's advocate on these boards. You come at every assertion from such an oblique angle -- and yet pertinent to the topic -- that it's hard to respond to your critical observations. ...Let alone debate them.

In a role-playing game, I'd assign you the role of 'sniper'.

There's nothing about you on your profile page. I'm guessing British and male. You are well-spoken and analytical, and your grammar and spelling are precise, so I reckon post-educational and employed in a profession that requires mental acuity.


Would you mind telling us a little something about yourself? (You exasperating pain in the ass.... By which I mean you are accomplishing your goals.)


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
I believe that was "under 20 lines", so you should be able to respond to it...
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

Only 209 days, 15 hours, 2 minutes, and 57 seconds left until The BDM!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 4:30 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by ShanYu:
a high ranking officer with many talents


Isn't that an oxymoron?

*snicker*

I know at least one militarily experienced friend who would agree.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 4:33 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Zoid
Once BOFH. Early retirement because of ill-health. Explains a lot, but can you believe it?

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 4:45 AM

ZOID



Purp:

BOFH? Haven't heard that acronym on this side of the pond. Is that as in:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~bofh/bofh/genesis2.html ?

If so, I'd say that BOFH has considerably more joie de vivre than you've exhibited thus far. Now where'd I put that revolver?


END RUN,

zoid

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 5:20 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by zoid:
BOFH?


ACK

OT: as my mate FanPimp would say, We have franchising
http://www.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/cashncarrion?listPos=&op=catalog
ue-products-null&prodCategoryID=1

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 5:48 AM

ZOID



P'Belly:

So, replace my original 'mental acuity' with 'dogged perseverence and a keen sense of justice' and I pretty much guessed correctly.

The physician who certified your medical retirement pension wouldn't happen to have been Dr. "Purp" L. B. Lee, M.D., O.B.E., would it?

On a side note -- having nothing whatsoever to do with Firefly -- I'd purchase some of your wares, but I strongly suspect my credit card bill would reflect charges for a NAMBLA membership, cc: FBI.gov...


Ware-ily,

zoid

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 8:45 AM

BEENWITHAWARRIORWOMAN


Everyone seems to be assuming Book is telling the truth when he says things. I don't know that that's the case. Here's my theory, and it may come from watching too much Alias - I believe Book is the Alliance equivilant of the CIA - he was sent to find a) Simon/River or b) Mal, Serenity, et al. The wife and I are currently watching the series for the billionth time trying to find evidence (this is a new theory for me), but here's what I got so far:

- Book is always, especially at first, angling for one-on-one time with the crew during which he seems intent on feeling them out. His questions seem aimed at their motivations, what makes them tick, and especially at the relationships between the characters. This is what one does on a deep cover mission.

- Book knows things a simple preacher wouldn't. His ident card and subsequent VIP treatment. Nothing new to see here.

- "That ain't no shepherd." Also nothing new, but since spoken in the PRESENT tense from someone who knows lots of PRESENT information about the crew... it's a bit more sinister in this light.

- He won't kill anyone. Possibly religious motivation... but just as possible it's one of those rule things... deep cover officers can't kill either.

- The last bit of this isn't so much evidence as a continuation of the theory - he hasn't turned anyone in and if he were Alliance-type CIA, there are only two reasons for him not to: either he's after a bigger fish than Serenity affords him, or he's gone rogue. I'm leaning toward the rogue theory.

_____________________________________________
Have you seen what she wears? Forget about it!

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 9:27 AM

BDJSB7


Something that has only been mentioned by one post so far was the "half a hump" statement River was able to "see"... this is probably the most signifigant clue we have to go on. I think it enforces his ties to the Alliance... perhaps he was someone responsible for the capture or brutal torture of people... or perhaps some sort of judge. The judge thing is probably too obvious based on what was said, but the maniacal look he had at the time suggests a certain ruthlessness that he may have had to come to terms with at some point in his life. This is, however, in direct contrast to when he appears frightened or unsure of himself at times... but this could be testament to the fact that he has indeed faced those demons and prevailed.
Jubel may have recognised him, or, what I got out of it, was that he may have intiuted that he was "no shepard" based on his observations of the crew from earlier on. It is probably safe to assume he was spying on them from the time he arrived to the time he entered the ship.
I'm willing to bet that much of what he's told the crew is true, but we don't have any reason to believe him. The theory I stated, I believe, lets the truth stay intact, and provide motivation for the ways he reacts and so on. He may have once been a hardened criminal or someone who dealt with them regularly, a sherrif or judge perhaps (who may have used questionable methods)... but one who has tried to repent...
I would not be suprised if those sins were meant to come back and haunt him at some point... I guess only time (and Joss) can tell...

(unrelated: sorry for the long post, my first on these boards, glad to be part of the community)

BDJSB7

-Sheparding folks toward the best show in the 'verse as best I can... one box set at a time.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 3:01 PM

MICHIZURE


Quote:

Originally posted by beenwithawarriorwoman:
Here's my theory, and it may come from watching too much Alias - I believe Book is the Alliance equivilant of the CIA - he was sent to find a) Simon/River or b) Mal, Serenity, et al.

The biggest problem I have with this theory is that, if true, he's an incompetent bungler of a secret agent -- more comic relief than one of the Scary People.

Quote:

Book ... seems intent on feeling them out... This is what one does on a deep cover mission.

It is also consistent with the interests of a counselor, religious or otherwise.

Quote:

"That ain't no shepherd." Also nothing new, but since spoken in the PRESENT tense from someone who knows lots of PRESENT information about the crew...

... who was a whack-job who nevertheless considered himself a philosopher. Jubal Early was not a reliable witness.

Quote:

He won't kill anyone. Possibly religious motivation... but just as possible it's one of those rule things... deep cover officers can't kill either.

A deep cover agent can't blow his deep cover -- that's the only rule that makes sense. If "can't kill" is part of his persona, then he's not going to be unspecific about things like kneecaps: he won't show off his skills at all.

Next, why would a covert agent risk blowing his cover to assist (ineptly, I might add) another undercover agent with a possibly conflicting mission? Reasonably, he would either (1) pull rank on the fool and warn him off the higher priority operation, (2) offer some effective assistance in accomplishing his aims, or (most likely) (3) stay entirely out of the way, so as not to endanger his own mission.

Finally, a covert agent who was forced to flash his real ID (assuming he'd risk carrying such an incriminating document in the first place) would be pulled out immediately because his cover was blown -- not re-inserted in the hopes that somehow no one would notice.

Quote:

... if he were Alliance-type CIA, there are only two reasons for him not to: either he's after a bigger fish than Serenity affords him, or he's gone rogue.

... but his putative former employers wouldn't post a Wave to all Alliance forces requesting his apprehension on sight? Yes, there are reasons they might not -- but then Book shouldn't be willing to take that chance, either.

In short: if he's trying to hide the fact that he has Alliance connections, he's doing a rum job of it. That makes sense if it's something he just isn't particularly inclined to mention, but not if it's a critical part of his reason for being aboard.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 8:18 PM

THERON


Hi everyone, I have had a theory about Book for a long time, I even mentioned it at the fan talk on monday at DragonCon. My friends had to make me bring it up, I hate speaking in front of people. It might go on for a bit so I apologize ahead of time. But now to the theory.

*pulls on bullet-proof vest and helment.* :)

I disagree with everyone that says Book was an Alliance/Independent anything (past or present) or in the witness protection plan or for that matter any of the theories that I have seen. Not that they are bad theories, just that they seem to predictable for Joss to use here, plus I have a short video clip of Tim Minear talking and saying that Book's past will be revealed and it isn't what we think it is. aka the military/intel/crime lord connection is that that means to me.

I think Joss used the illusionist's trick of distracting people from what he was saying and letting them think he was saying something else with it. I believe he gave us Book's real name and persona in the episodes, you just have to interpret them and realize what he is doing. To my knowledge he only named one character that never actually made a physical appearance in the show and that is who Book is.

In Jaynestown, Book tells River "You don't fix faith, it fixes you." Obviously, as many have pointed out, his faith has fixed or is fixing something with him that is very bad.

Shephard Book used to be known by the name of Shaun Yu.

(The irony of who started this thread and my theory does not escape me) :)

Take a look at the evidence from this point of view.

When River is reading minds in Objects in Space, Book says "I don't give half a hump if you are innocent or not." Someone mentioned his face at that time. To me, that is sadistic joy. He was taking a great deal of pleasure in doing what he was doing. And if he was torturing someone to meet the real them, then he wouldn't care if they were innocent or not.

If you were going to be a man that went around torturing people to meet the real them, then wouldn't you want to be the toughest, baddest person you could be? Hence the very high level of skill with martial-arts and firearms. Also, a large degree of knowledge about illegal matters can go hand in hand with how he gained that skill. Also, knowledge of illegal matters could be useful to a man who is a dictator, and one of the ways he got where he was at (ala Niska).

Being a dictator can be a dangerous occupation, people usually don't like you, especially if you run around torturing people. Knowledge of firearms and martial arts would be very useful to survival. Which leads into my next two points.

Book, in the course of torturing people, catchs and tortures a shepherd. But this man is not hiding anything, his faith sustains him and strengthens him. He is not putting on a mask but showing the world his true face. This rocks Book's world to the foundations. Here is a man who is not hiding behind a mask, who is the same on the inside as the outside. With the kind of philosophy Book had at the time, something like that would make me start questioning myself.

So what do you do if you are a dictator and you have suddenly had a life altering "change of perspective" and your feeling a lot of remorse for your past actions? You can't just walk away and send your holdings into anarchy or just as bad let another dictator take over. What you do, is turn your holdings over to someone or a group of someones who you can reasonably trust not to take to much advantage of your people and maybe even lift their lot in life. Who would that be? Why the Alliance of course, not the best option for sure, but better than just letting whoever can force his way to the top in the power vacuum you are going to leave take over. And what do you get besides a vacation to Southdown Abbey and spiritual enlightenment? Well how about access to advanced medical facilities at the drop of a hat, or of say, an identacard?

Many people in the show have remarked about the relationship between Jayne and Book. I believe this is Book being drawn to something of his old self. Amoral, skill with weapons and hand to hand combat etc, etc. Maybe with an inclination to diverting Jayne from the path he has set for himself?

As for Cybersnark's comment about him reading the brain scan of River in War Stories, Book would have at least a familarity with medical equipment and procedures just from the way he gained his dictatorship. And haven't there been several shots of him doing first aid ono people in the show. Rudimentary I know, but still. Also, he could have had some kind of device that allowed him to read people's brain waves while he was torturing them, to give him more info to work with. Not telepathy, but just a general idea of what got to them the most maybe? I haven't noticed that piece of the scene that you mention, and my only copy of the DVDs are out converting a couple of friends at the moment so I cannot go check unfortunately.

Two more points and I will stop, I promise. :)
In War Stories, when Book and Simon are discussing Shaun Yu, Simon says "...tell me you are not a fan." Book's response isnt "No, I am not." It goes "I was wondering if they were...." He doesn't respond to Simon's question, he sidesteps and ignores it. This is one that took me a bit to notice, but you would expect him to say a negative response here right?

And last, in War Stories Simon says "I am thinking of growing a moustache, I am a traditionalist." The only two people with moustaches on board are Jayne and Book. We know Jayne is amoral already. And I am more than willing to bet that Book's moustache wasn't always gray. :) And before anyone says that Wash had a moustache, I will point out that the operative word here is "had" and his was blonde/brown anyway.

Ok the last one was said in jokingly, but at the same time, is that to small of a detail for Joss to have left undone?

Have at it and poke holes in it all you can. I will try to defend it as best I can. I know I am leaving some info out but the post is a little long and it is 2am here in Chattanooga, so I am a bit tired.


NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, September 24, 2004 8:29 PM

SHANYU


I really like your theory its the exact type of thing joss would do, very few people would think this far out of the box but joss probably would, its a good tehory... a hell of a lot better than mine lol, the only thing is that book is not chinese and Shan Yu was said to be a chinese philosipher...

"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 25, 2004 2:41 AM

MICHIZURE


Quote:

Originally posted by Theron:
To my knowledge he only named one character that never actually made a physical appearance in the show and that is who Book is.

Mal lists a number of potential buyers by name in Serenity, only to dismiss them in favor of Patience. We don't see any of them.

Similarly, several of Saffron's victims were named in Trash, but (since they were all dead) we didn't get to see them either.

--------
Kotoba yori tashika na koto michizure ni shite.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 25, 2004 7:42 AM

THERON


Hello again everyone, thanks for the comments. For a while I have needed someone(s) to help me poke holes in the idea. So here goes with the responses to thing.

Shanyu: Thanks I appreciate the thinking outside the box comment. :) All of the other ideas seem to pat for me, to been there and done that formulaic for this show. As for Shanyu in the show, I forgot I had the eps on my computer and watched that scene again, no where in there do they say he was a chinese philosopher. They say he was a psychotic dictator but not a chinese man. If they did somewhere else in the eps could you point it out for me? I would very much appreaite it as that would pretty much shoot my theory in the foot and let me move on. :)

Cybersnark, I also looked for that scene with Book checking out the brainscan of River. It is very brief, but it looks to me a lot more like he is just confused by it. I will watch it again and see if I can get a better look at his face.

Michizure, my apologies. I was tired and should have said "the only person who didn't show up in the show but that we got some solid info on." The people the captian mentions in Serenity only gives us names and a very small amount of info. Dead (Reavers), won't touch it, can't afford it, and brain-blown. By the way, anyone have any clue what brain-blown is? Been wondering that for a while.

Keep them coming guys, this helps me out quite a bit.

Later. :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 25, 2004 11:15 AM

THESOMNAMBULIST


Book....

There's a chance here that book is the 'Mcgufin' in Firefly a convenient way to divert the attention as was stated by Theron.

Fact is Joss could quite easily have left all this open just so as to have the ammo to take Book wherever he wants in the future.

From what's been set up the possibilities are endless, from spy to aliiance officer to medic to all round adventurer... Who knows?

That said I enjoy many of the theories here and all have some credibility based on the snippets of Books past that we have been privy too. Thing is I don't think there is enough to say either way.

Personally I like the religious slant and the parrallels that can be drawn with fallen biblical characters .

I like the idea that Book is a sort of fallen angel - perhaps a triator which saw him give up his fellow compatriots to the alliance during the war, and then was witness to the slaughter of these men and possibly women and children.

Something akin to Judas in Dante's inferno with his place right next to the Beast (the Devil)... and he is now trying to atone for his sins as a triator....

His weeping at the alliance officers' death, alerting him to the fact that he has a very difficult, perhpas even impossible task ahead of him.

Who knows - but it all makes for fascinating discussion and I can't wait for Serenity to see what happens with Ron Glass' character.




www.cirqus.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 25, 2004 8:06 PM

THEREALME


Theron, I think that is a great theory you have about Book.

By the way, I feel that you are wrong, but that is only a feeling.

I did get the impression that this Shan Yu was someone far in the past, but that might have been my own assumptions.

My theory? I believe that Book is actually another person whom we have heard named but never seen: Richard Wilkins, the Alliance General who won the Battle of Serenity Valley.


The Real Me

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, September 25, 2004 8:31 PM

THERON


Hahahahaha, everyone likes the idea but no one agrees with it but me and a couple of my friends. :) That is one of the reasons I posted it, I would like some help debunking it or making it better.

A good many times when I was trying to figure out Book I threw my hands up in the air in disgust, there truly is very little there to go on. And you may be right, Joss may have left it open so he could run with it in any direction he felt like when the time came. And alliance/independent anything is still a good back story. Even if I don't think it is right.

On the Shaun Yu in the past, I got that impression as well, but not so far back as to be Earth that Was. I think he was someone who came to power before the War of Unification. My reasoning for that is pretty simple, it would be a darn cool back story for a character. :)

Ok, that and during Jaynestown, Simon, mentions the ancient Egyptians, and every one just stares at him until he explains. But a good many people seem to know who Shaun Yu is without any explanation.



NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:25 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Theron:
By the way, anyone have any clue what brain-blown is? Been wondering that for a while.

I'm guessing it's the 'versal equivalent to being a vegetable.

As in, the guy Mal's talking about O.D.ed on something, or maybe he took some greivous head/central nervous system injury. He's currently "alive," but either comatose or shuffling around an asylum doing his best Drusilla impression.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 5:30 AM

MANTICHORUS


Quote:

Originally posted by Theron:
Hahahahaha, everyone likes the idea but no one agrees with it but me and a couple of my friends. :) That is one of the reasons I posted it, I would like some help debunking it or making it better.

A good many times when I was trying to figure out Book I threw my hands up in the air in disgust, there truly is very little there to go on. And you may be right, Joss may have left it open so he could run with it in any direction he felt like when the time came. And alliance/independent anything is still a good back story. Even if I don't think it is right.

On the Shaun Yu in the past, I got that impression as well, but not so far back as to be Earth that Was. I think he was someone who came to power before the War of Unification. My reasoning for that is pretty simple, it would be a darn cool back story for a character. :)

Ok, that and during Jaynestown, Simon, mentions the ancient Egyptians, and every one just stares at him until he explains. But a good many people seem to know who Shaun Yu is without any explanation.



Actually, the only members of the crew who seem to know about Shan Yu are Book, Simon, and (possibly) River.

__________________________________________________
"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference." -Elie Wiesel, quoted in US News World Report.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 9:44 AM

CORWYN


Quote:

Originally posted by Mantichorus:
Actually, the only members of the crew who seem to know about Shan Yu are Book, Simon, and (possibly) River.



Mal knows enough about him to know he wrote books. "you starting a book club."

Thank You Kindly.

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 4:12 PM

THERON


And let us not forget (as if we could) that Niska also knew Shaun Yu.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:52 PM

MANTICHORUS


Quote:

Originally posted by corwyn:
Quote:

Originally posted by Mantichorus:
Actually, the only members of the crew who seem to know about Shan Yu are Book, Simon, and (possibly) River.



Mal knows enough about him to know he wrote books. "you starting a book club."

Thank You Kindly.



NISKA: "Tell me... Are you familiar with the works of Shan Yu?" (My emphasis).

When someone talks about the works of someone, they usually mean their literary works.
That's my thinkin' on the subject, anyway.

__________________________________________________
"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference." -Elie Wiesel, quoted in US News World Report.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Tuesday, September 28, 2004 11:53 PM

MANTICHORUS


Quote:

Originally posted by Theron:
And let us not forget (as if we could) that Niska also knew Shaun Yu.



Yeah, well, I don't count Adelai(sp?) Niska as part of the crew.

__________________________________________________
"The opposite of love is not hate, it's indifference. The opposite of art is not ugliness, it's indifference. The opposite of faith is not heresy, it's indifference. And the opposite of life is not death, it's indifference." -Elie Wiesel, quoted in US News World Report.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Wednesday, September 29, 2004 12:22 AM

SHEPHERDQ


Quote:

Originally posted by Theron:

Dead (Reavers), won't touch it, can't afford it, and brain-blown. By the way, anyone have any clue what brain-blown is? Been wondering that for a while.



From the context, I think it means the mind has gone, as in when people get overstressed or sensory overload and the mind snaps and people go to la la land.

The Journey is the worthier part.
www.southdownabbey.com

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Thursday, September 30, 2004 5:28 PM

SHANYU


Quote:

Originally posted by Theron:
Shanyu: Thanks I appreciate the thinking outside the box comment. :) All of the other ideas seem to pat for me, to been there and done that formulaic for this show. As for Shanyu in the show, I forgot I had the eps on my computer and watched that scene again, no where in there do they say he was a chinese philosopher. They say he was a psychotic dictator but not a chinese man. If they did somewhere else in the eps could you point it out for me? I would very much appreaite it as that would pretty much shoot my theory in the foot and let me move on. :)
/B]




Ur right sry i always thought he was chinese for some reason.



"You can live with a man for fourty years , share his meals, talk on every subject, then tie him up, and hold him over the volanoes edge. And on that day, you will finally meet the man"

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, October 3, 2004 4:02 PM

THERON


Hey everyone, sorry, I have been away from the computer for a bit lately. Shaun Yu may have been an ancient chinese philosopher, I plain do not know. The "impression" I had of him though was that he was a person of much more recent vintage. For me, to much detail is known about him to have been an Earth that Was person. Or it may have been that the new incarnation of him took his name from that ancient philosopher.

Just my two cents worth.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 4, 2004 3:23 AM

SHW


Quote:

Originally posted by TheRealMe:


My theory? I believe that Book is actually another person whom we have heard named but never seen: Richard Wilkins, the Alliance General who won the Battle of Serenity Valley.


The Real Me



..... does this mean that we'll be seeing Mal and our BDH fighting a Big Damn Snake in the future?

shw

.. attack him with hummous... Oz

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, October 4, 2004 5:24 PM

THEREALME


If you mean Book as the snake, then I think not.

If this theory is correct, then I believe that General Wilkins was appalled at the aftermath of the Battle of Serenity Valley, and turned his back on that life to become a priest. Whatever Book may have been, I believe that he is a preacher NOW.

If true, it makes a nice parallel. Mal lost the Battle of Serentiy and lost his faith in God. Wilkins/Book won the battle, but as a result found religion.

But both were in Serenity Valley, and that means that they will never leave.


Some folks (Alliance Cruiser Captains) remember Book's old self with reverence. Book could hardly reveal the truth of his past to Mal, but says that he hopes he can, one day.


The Real Me

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

FFF.NET SOCIAL