GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

Well, here comes a fatal blow...

POSTED BY: NOVAGRASS
UPDATED: Sunday, November 3, 2002 13:38
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Saturday, October 19, 2002 7:38 AM

NOVAGRASS


http://tv.zap2it.com/news/dailynielsenrankings.html?28540

Firefly got a 2.7/5 in overnights.

I'm still holding onto my hopes... but I think I might be grasping at straws.

--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--

"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 8:25 AM

JERRY


Fox really has no choice with a number like that. Unfortunately, buzz of impending cancellation becomes self-fulfilling prophecy by dissuading people from watching.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 8:52 AM

REAVER


RIP
I blame Fox for Firefly's probable demise, though. Namely poor promotion, poor timeslot, and the descision to not air the pilot first.


...but considering how terrible Haunted is doing in the post Buffy slot, there may be a shot that UPN picks it up. It would probably be able to hold Buffy's numbers pretty well. It'll probably come down to production costs,though, becuase the 3.5 to 4 that it might be able to pick up after Buffy, would have to be enough to offset reportadly high production costs.


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Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:06 AM

MOONKNIGHT


We all must remember to never say die. All indications, save the speculations based on past history, is that Fox has faith in this show's promise and will give it some leeway in finding its audience.

However, we loyal fans mustn't sit around and simply hope, but must show Fox that they're doing the right thing by not simply basing a show's worth on the opinions of a mere 1000 people. Doing otherwise would be unfair, and in fact downright unAmerican.

--
Funny and/or insightful quote coming soon.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 9:44 AM

JERRY


The only positive twist I could put on this is that all of Fox's shows did crappy this week, due to the fact that nobody knew they were on because of baseball. Even with that, I think the show is most likely doomed, but perhaps the network will wait one more week to see what happens. Next Friday is an off-day in the middle of the World Series, so they should be able to promote the show to a lot of people during the first few games if they choose to do so. But off of this number, they most likely will not.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 10:36 AM

REXRAYGUN


Quote:

Originally posted by Reaver:
...but considering how terrible Haunted is doing in the post Buffy slot, there may be a shot that UPN picks it up. It would probably be able to hold Buffy's numbers pretty well.



I'd have to disagree with you on that one. Haunted is getting killed by Smallville, not necessarily because it's a bad show. I love Firefly, but my wife would be watching Smallville, so Firefly would lose in my household...

Just my dos pesos,

Rex!

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:31 AM

SKIPUP


I encourage everyone to write a letter to Fox, telling them why you like the show and that it is worth saving. I think I read somewhere that it is assumed that one handwritten letter is worth a thousand people.

Fox's address is on the www.fox.com webpage.

If letters can save a preachy crappy show like Doctor Quinn, maybe it will work for FF.
-skipup


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Saturday, October 19, 2002 11:46 AM

SAINTOFCHEESE


*bashes head against wall* I will cry very hard if it dies. I can't do without firefly and farscape!! It would be awful! Firefly has renewed my high levels of sci-fi obsession (okay.. a drop in it for me is still far higher than most people's highest levels of obsession).

I couldn't deal if i got canceled!

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:03 PM

SAINTOFCHEESE


Okay.. i'm stupid.. can someone post who we write to?

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 12:43 PM

SKIPUP


This is the FOX Network Primetime's mailing address. I wish I had an actual name of a real live person on the other end.

Write to:
FOX Broadcasting Co.
P.O. Box 900
Beverly Hills, CA 90213

-Skipup

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 1:04 PM

NOVAGRASS


You know... I just had a thought. If Fox believes in Firefly so much (which I'm beginning to doubt they do), perhaps they'll try it out on a different night. Schedules can be shuffled, and shows with built-in audiences will survive better in the Friday night slot.

--Dylan Palmer, Pretentious Bastard at Large--

"Oh my god, I'm a hack!" - Joss Whedon

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 2:07 PM

YEAHITSME


That's what I hope they'll do....if it's still big on TIVO wich I'm pretty sure it is maybe they'll understand that they have an audiance but it's just not around at that time and they'll try it elsewhere

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 2:14 PM

RHEA


Letter written.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 2:18 PM

MALCOLM


Quote:

Originally posted by SaintofCheese:
Okay.. i'm stupid.. can someone post who we write to?

~*Saint of Cheese*~



Peter Chernin (President and Chief Operating Officer, News Corporation)

Sandy Grushow (Chairman, FOX Television Entertainment Group)

Gail Berman (President, Entertainment)


-MBS

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 2:35 PM

PEDME84


just to throw a little hope into the mix...

i totally expected buffy to be cancelled after its first season. i was in the process of mourning its loss when i found out it had been renewed, and now look where it's gone! it's a huge success

so you never know

- emily

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:12 PM

JERRY


The only night Fox would likely try it on instead of Friday is Thursday. I'm not sure that would be an improvement.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 3:54 PM

YEAHITSME


well at least people are not out on thursday sure it won't beat Friends/Scrubs or CSI in rating but who says that most people who watche that show are watching these show anyway....

The problem is not that nobody watch it...hell it was the second most added show for a season pass out by the 1 000 000 TIVO viewer, and well we watch it and so other people do as well, but my guess is that the nielsen fammily that would be interested in that show are just not there on friday so we don't have the rating the show would have if they were there

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 5:20 PM

DELVO


Thanks to the Great Scourge Against All Broadcasting (baseball), all ratings until there's a break and they go into repeats will probably be split between at least two episdoes. I got last week's episode here, which was not shown here last week because of the Great Scourge. So, unless they skip one somewhere to catch up, people in some places like mine will be a week behind the "real" schedule.

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Saturday, October 19, 2002 6:09 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


I hate sports. There are entire channels dedicated to sports. Why can't they keep the sports on those channels and leave us alone?

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right. It's not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Sunday, October 20, 2002 5:33 AM

YEAHITSME


Quote:

Originally posted by LivingImpaired:
I hate sports. There are entire channels dedicated to sports. Why can't they keep the sports on those channels and leave us alone?

________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right. It's not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"


rating

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Monday, October 21, 2002 4:12 AM

KALIMAC


As others have stated, though, TiVo numbers will only be useful in showing FOX that it has a viewership so they can move it to a night when these viewers are home.

TiVo numbers will not help sell advertising (for obvious reasons) and therefore are useless for purposes of keeping a series in production.

But, yes, if the numbers are solid there and FOX acknowledges it, that may be enough to convince them to move it out of the death slot.

- JD Burton
Who doesn't expect Firefly to fare better than any of the other shows he loves that get prematurely canceled (Push, Nevada anyone?).

Keep Flying

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Monday, October 21, 2002 9:38 AM

PEAK


According to MediaWeek the overnight was 3.4/6...

Link: http://www.mediaweek.com/mediaweek/columns/prog_insider.jsp

I think the biggest problem for Firefly is that noone seems to expect it to succeed. The concensus before even the show started was that the show would be cancelled quickly... It seems like some people doesn't want to watch the show because they think that it will dissappear soon.

FOX doesn't make it easier by not showing the original pilot/the timeslot/sports...

What I do see is that almost everyone who watches it on every message board i post/lurk in (slipstreambbs, trekbbs, quite a few buffy-forums, newsgroups) likes the show... The threads for Firefly in the Television without Pity-forums are really, really long...

But I do think that the negativity that preceeded the series is it's worst enemy...

//Peak

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:22 PM

DARKANGELSLAYER


You'd think Fox would've learned their lesson with Dark Angel...

Maybe they can move FF to Mondays, cuz a lot of critics don't expect girls club to last that long.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:25 PM

RADWORLD


Admitedly...I didn't start watching because I figured I would get crushed when it got canceled. See SPACE:Above and Beyod and I think I am the only person who still has the guts to wear his SeaQuest DSV baseball hat. But on a good friends rec...I checked it out and much to my dismay...I loved it. Good plot possibilites and and character dev. So of course it means its doomed. I will send my meaningless letter and hope but I'm sure Fox will just put it with all my past letters.

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Monday, October 21, 2002 1:31 PM

SAINTOFCHEESE


Don't lose hope! Write tons of letters, yes. It can't hurt, but don't lose hope. Keep watching, keep telling other people how great it is, and try not to bring up to much negative stuff . It WILL survive. If/when it gets canceled, we can all cry.. let's not worry too much til then.

~*Saint of Cheese*~

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Monday, October 21, 2002 2:35 PM

DELVO


Quote:

Maybe they can move FF to Mondays, cuz a lot of critics don't expect girls club to last that long.
Not until the end of NFL football. Notice that all shows other than Monday Night Football that are on at that time are "girl shows", and this is either more of a guy show or neutral at most. Nobody wants to even bother trying to compete with football for the male audience. If they want to get it out of the "death slot" because of the "death" part, they won't move it to the "even more certain death slot".

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Monday, October 21, 2002 5:39 PM

JERRY


I think it's unreasonable to expect Fox to pick up the show for a full season with the ratings it's getting. At best, I'd hope they would leave it on the air for a few more weeks to see if it makes any progress. It's a pity, because I think it's a terrific show. I wish the network had been able to come up with some promos that actually conveyed a sense of what the show was all about. I would have tried to have a campaign of ads that each focused on one of the characters, to allow people to develop a bit of a hook into the story. Then again, I also would have shown the pilot and not reordered the episodes.

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Friday, October 25, 2002 7:45 PM

QUANTUMFLUX


Football? Firefly is good, but it can't compete with 7th Heaven. I don't like that show but I hear that a lot of other people do. Anyway, I think the show will last.

C'mon! Joss Whedon created it. Tell me one thing that he has written that was not good. I can't think of anything.

QFlux

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Saturday, October 26, 2002 6:15 AM

KALIMAC


Um, how about Alien: Resurrection, Waterworld, and even Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

{ Interesting side note: I loved all the above movies, but most people really don't. }

Keep Flying

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Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:00 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED


Quote:

Originally posted by Kalimac:
Um, how about Alien: Resurrection, Waterworld, and even Buffy the Vampire Slayer?

{ Interesting side note: I loved all the above movies, but most people really don't. }

Keep Flying



Hey, Alien and Buffy, very much not Whedon's fault. The original scripts kicked ass, but he lost control of the scripts, and they were rewriten. I hear the he cried when he saw both of those movies for the first time.

I don't know what Waterworld's excuse.
________________

"You still don't get it. It's not about right. It's not about wrong... It's about Power." —Morph-O-Monster, "Lessons"

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Saturday, October 26, 2002 1:06 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Wasn't he just one of dozen or so script doctors on Waterworld?

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Saturday, October 26, 2002 4:42 PM

EPHRAIM


Quote:

Originally posted by Kalimac:
As others have stated, though, TiVo numbers will only be useful in showing FOX that it has a viewership so they can move it to a night when these viewers are home.

TiVo numbers will not help sell advertising (for obvious reasons) and therefore are useless for purposes of keeping a series in production.




Kalimac,

While, unfortunately, this is true for TV network shows like Firefly on Fox, this is becoming less true for shows like The Sopranos on HBO and Jeremiah on Showtime. These cable networks have very few or no commercials during the shows, and you have already paid for the show by subscribing to the cable network. I'm sure that these folks would be much more interested in Tivo's statistics.

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Sunday, October 27, 2002 11:01 AM

STEVE580


I wrote a letter...just wanted to tell ya'll.

I love this show.

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Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:02 AM

NIGHTDRIFTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain:
The one stroke of luck that the show does have is the fact that Fox doesn't really have anything to replace it with. Even with a show doing poorly, I'd believe they'd leave it on, instead of have dead air, or a rerun. I believe Fox has signed on for 13 episodes as of right now, so it is not entirely out of the question that Firefly will survive a full year, becuase if nothing else, they have no backup. Don't give up hope yet. One good week, rating's wise, and all this talk will be moot.



I'm with you there! Bab 5 took a good while to findit's audience. Most Sci-fi shows do but what is unique about all of them is that they do engender a loyal following. Like you say one good week!

"Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun"- Ash, Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness


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Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:02 AM

NIGHTDRIFTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain:
The one stroke of luck that the show does have is the fact that Fox doesn't really have anything to replace it with. Even with a show doing poorly, I'd believe they'd leave it on, instead of have dead air, or a rerun. I believe Fox has signed on for 13 episodes as of right now, so it is not entirely out of the question that Firefly will survive a full year, becuase if nothing else, they have no backup. Don't give up hope yet. One good week, rating's wise, and all this talk will be moot.



I'm with you there! Bab 5 took a good while to find it's audience. Most Sci-fi shows do but what is unique about all of them is that they do engender a loyal following. Like you say one good week!

"Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun"- Ash, Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness


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Thursday, October 31, 2002 11:03 AM

NIGHTDRIFTER


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain:
The one stroke of luck that the show does have is the fact that Fox doesn't really have anything to replace it with. Even with a show doing poorly, I'd believe they'd leave it on, instead of have dead air, or a rerun. I believe Fox has signed on for 13 episodes as of right now, so it is not entirely out of the question that Firefly will survive a full year, becuase if nothing else, they have no backup. Don't give up hope yet. One good week, rating's wise, and all this talk will be moot.



I'm with you there! Bab 5 took a good while to find it's audience. Most Sci-fi shows do but, what is unique about all of them is that they do engender a loyal following. Like you say one good week!

"Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun"- Ash, Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness


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Friday, November 1, 2002 5:40 AM

KALIMAC


Quote:

Originally posted by NightDrifter:

"Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun"- Ash, Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness




Interesting note: in the UK version this line was:

"I ain't that good."

Keep Flying

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Friday, November 1, 2002 5:52 AM

NIGHTDRIFTER


[


Interesting note: in the UK version this line was:

"I ain't that good."


Political correctness strikes again !




"Good, Bad, I'm the one with the gun"- Ash, Evil Dead III: Army of Darkness


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Sunday, November 3, 2002 1:38 PM

JAYNELOVER


Quote:

Originally posted by Captain:
The one stroke of luck that the show does have is the fact that Fox doesn't really have anything to replace it with. Even with a show doing poorly, I'd believe they'd leave it on, instead of have dead air, or a rerun.



Actually, you might want to take a look at this:
http://www.thefutoncritic.com/cgi/gofuton.cgi?action=thisdayintv&id=20
021101


I hate it, but this article states that FOX has some mid-season replacement series "Keen Eddie" all lined up and ready to go.




Warrick: You didn't have to wound that man.
Mal: Yeah, I know. It was just funny.

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