GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

annoying things in firefly

POSTED BY: EST120
UPDATED: Thursday, March 17, 2005 10:31
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Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:37 AM

EST120


okay, we all love firefly. none of us would be here if we did not. still, there must be SOME things about firefly that bug the heck out of you. any scenes of specific lines or aspects of the series that drive you nuts everytime you see it?

i will start. the end of heart of gold bugs me to no end. i think it is too cruel. of course, not that the guy they killed was all that worth saving, but still. i thought it was a little over the edge.


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Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:52 AM

TRAGICSTORY


The FOX watermark in the corner. When I saw that on TV it really pissed me off.

Edited to add real comment:
Actually, what bugs me is the exact opposite of you. The show isn't violent enough. IRL, killing people solves many problems really quickly. Of course that makes it hard to build suspense and have reoccuring bad guys.

-----------
"Societies are supported by human activity, therefore they are constantly threatened by the human facts of self-intrest and stupidity." --Peter Berger

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 4:53 AM

ECGORDON

There's no place I can be since I found Serenity.


Shindig is my least favorite episode, mainly because of the poorly choreographed duel scene. Sure, Mal didn't know anything about sword-fighting, but Atherton was supposed to be expert, and as someone who has had a few fencing classes I can assure you the actor playing Ath didn't show much knowledge of the sport either.

Out of Gas is probably my second or third favorite ep (after OiS and Serenity), but the deal with the adrenaline straight to the heart upsets me every time I watch it. More than likely that would have killed Mal and Zoe in real life.

Every time I watch Ariel, I'm thinking Joss must think we are stupid if he wants us to believe nobody overheard Mal talking to Jayne in the airlock.

There are several other things I could nit-pick, but none of them alter the fact that Firefly is still be best gorram show in the 'verse.




wo men ren ran zai fei xing.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:42 AM

DESANGRO


Quote:

Originally posted by ecgordon:
[BEvery time I watch Ariel, I'm thinking Joss must think we are stupid if he wants us to believe nobody overheard Mal talking to Jayne in the airlock.

wo men ren ran zai fei xing.



Sure, there could have been someone who overheard them... namely River. I think that she knew about Jayne's betrayal right when it was happening... and depending on how psychic she is, she probably had good reason to suspect that he would turn on them. This could not be an oversight or a miscalculation on Joss's part at all... could a plot point for the BDM, or a good idea for a fic.

Myself, I deeply dislike most of the episode "Heart of Gold." I hate the villain, I don't care for Nandi at all, and the part where the bad guy practically forces the turncoat whore to um... orally stimulate him (at least that's what's implied) really freaks me out. I love Firefly, but even though that ep was never shown I still wonder why Faux thought that Firefly would ever be suitable for the 8-9 slot. It is not a children's show and it would have been better off in the X-Files' old slot.

To be fair, however, the only things I liked about "Heart of Gold" were the opening shots (the camera coming right down through space and onto the surface of the planet was a wowser) and the ending, with the beautiful rendition of "Amazing Grace." It is very heartwarming to think that 500 years from now, people may still know and love that song.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:15 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by DeSangro:
and the ending, with the beautiful rendition of "Amazing Grace."

OT In my head, that always segues into High-heeled Sneakers. Do I have company, or is there really such a thing as too much Janis Joplin?

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:23 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Torture as entertainment in War Stories; this is true of a number of TV shows in the US, some created by Whedon. An audience that can't be told the same things in different ways is deeply troubled.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:48 AM

SLAYER730


I never did like "Heart of Gold" for many reasons, but specifically for the conversation that Wash and Zoe have about having children someday. It just didn't seem to fit with the characters or the pacing of the episode.

Oh yeah, and I HATE Nandi...you know why.

***Never judge a book by its movie***

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 7:53 AM

DAIKATH


If Mal and Wash weren't tortured by Niska he would never have seemed so evil as he does now, so when he would come back it would be very scary. Or at least intimidating.

What I hate? The villain in Heart of Gold having the best gun in the sector and then it runs out of batteries after having missed Mal. Totally unbelievable.

And I dislike some of the CGI, most of the time I truly dispise CGI but in Firefly it isn't that bad, only in The Message when you see the smoke is clearly CGI or the chandeleir in Shindig.

I just see it is so clearly fake and for the most of the time in movies and in tv series they don't even try to do it the old fashioned way, they just grab for the computer.

While the oldfashioned way might have seemed much more realistic in a lot of cases.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:48 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Daikath:
If Mal and Wash weren't tortured by Niska he would never have seemed so evil as he does now, so when he would come back it would be very scary. Or at least intimidating.

This appears to confuse torture as a narrative device and torture as entertainment; the former does not require depiction - the latter does, however stylised. This confusion may be widespread within a jaded audience, I am not qualified to judge.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 10:20 AM

DESANGRO


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Quote:

Originally posted by DeSangro:
and the ending, with the beautiful rendition of "Amazing Grace."

OT In my head, that always segues into High-heeled Sneakers. Do I have company, or is there really such a thing as too much Janis Joplin?



Too much Janis Joplin!

Regarding torture in "War Stories": I think that that ep did a pretty good job in portraying it. The scene with Mal and Wash getting electrocuted was disturbing and darkly funny-- not funny in the sense that they were being slowly killed, but funny in the sense that Mal was using all of his cheeky power to outrage Wash so much that he'd stay awake and alive. T

here was a definite edge of horror in it, too; not fake, cheesy gross-out horror, but REAL horror, that of a sadist tormenting two characters that we love to death, and the one character's desperate fight to keep the other, weaker friend alive. Logically speaking, Mal didn't need to do that; if he was completely selfish and heartless he would have concentrated all his mental and physical energy on keeping himself alive, and not spared any for Wash. Of course, Mal being Mal, he didn't do that, and he kept Wash alive at great expense, I think, to himself.

The scene where Zoe gets Wash out, leaving Mal behind, and then Niska cuts off Mal's ear was great, too; it showed something about Zoe's character, and the ear-cutting was fairly shocking. (It reminds me of Reservoir Dogs, and it made me hate Niska all the more. I have nothing but love for Mr. Michael Fairman's performance as him, however.) I love everyone's performances in that scene, come to think of it; Alan Tudyk did a great job as Wash, because usually Wash is so funny in even the worst situations, and when he says to Zoe that Mal kept him alive you can just hear the pain in his voice.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 10:39 AM

ROCKETJOCK


Things that annoy me about Firefly? The fact that the show never made it clear if this action all takes place in one solar system or across many. Lots of good threads debating that topic.

Also -- I hate that the opening narrations weren't included on the DVD set. If Joss didn't like them, I can understand, but I'd have enjoyed seeing them amongst the deleted scenes, at least.

"Hermanos! The Devil has built a robot! Andale!" -- Numero Cinco

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 10:42 AM

SERGEANTX


The torture in War Stories didn't sit right with me at first, but I've since formed a bit better appreciation of what was going on there - specifically with Mal attempting to keep Wash distracted.

The other part of that episode that was a turn off for me was the lesbian kiss scene. Not because I got a thing against girls kissing, but with the way it was promoted before its broadcast and its seeming irrelevance to the storyline, it just seemed gratuitous.

Shortly after it was broadcast Joss posted about some of the problems they had editing that episode. Apparently the lesbian scene did have implications to the story that were lost on the final edit.

It seems that after it became clear that Niska had taken Mal and Wash, Inara went to visit to counselor to ask for assistance. When the counselor's husband appeared at the door with her, she pretended to not know Inara at all. The idea was that Inara had a moral dilemma: sacrifice the confidentiality of a client or save Mal and Wash...

In the end the scene was deleted but the lesbian thing was tied into some other parts of the episode (Jayne's "I'll be in my bunk" quotes et al) so it was left in.

Anyway, those are a couple of the reasons I don't like War Stories as much as a lot of other fans. Still... River's trick shooting rawked!

SergeantX

"Dream a little dream or you can live a little dream. I'd rather live it, cause dreamers always chase but never get it." Aesop Rock

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 1:15 PM

HEB


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Torture as entertainment in War Stories; this is true of a number of TV shows in the US, some created by Whedon. An audience that can't be told the same things in different ways is deeply troubled.



Yeah but to me that scene really wasn't about the torture. It's about Mal's character. The way you think they're having an argument and then you realise Mal is keeping Wash going despite any issues they might be having. The torture added nothing to the scene but you had to know how bad things were for the characters for what Mal did to have an effect, I think. The scene to me is not remotely entertaining but it is very powerful and important to the characters' development.

...................
Well, my sister's a ship... we had a
complicated childhood
.................
I wear the cheese. It does not wear me.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 1:51 PM

SHINYSEVEN


I like Heart of Gold a lot, and think that it has a GREAT villain (bearing in mind that we're talking villain rather than finely-nuanced-and-shaded character). But what I didn't like about it was Nandi dying; she should have survived and then Mal and Inara would have to sort out the situation with Nandi still in the picture.

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Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:27 PM

PIRATEJENNY


mines is easy..Kaylee, she annoys me so bad


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Monday, November 22, 2004 12:44 AM

NEDWARD


I think I agree with the Purple one. (No, not about Janis Joplin!) Petaline realistically shooting Rance Burgess is effective because it's unexpected in the general context of TV today. See also Mal shooting Lawrence Dobson, Mal shoving Crow in the engine...

Whereas I could have done with a little less on-screen torture in War Stories, the "look, I am James Bond villian, I have weird accent and daft pain device" stuff. The torture-as-entertainment shlock is sadly somewhat banal today, but there ain't enough good heroes killin' folk in cold blood.

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Monday, November 22, 2004 1:24 AM

JUMPY


Oh yeh, one line, Book says to Inara:

"I don't think the Captain would much like me praying for him."

What priest in their right mind would care if someone wouldn't like them praying for them? As a faithful person, just because someone doesn't believe in God or has some problem with God in general, doesn't stop me praying for their safety or happiness or whatever.

Lol its just funny that Book, a Shepherd, would not understand such a fundamental part of the Christian faith and Inara would. That's pretty much the one line in firefly that annoys me

__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...

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Monday, November 22, 2004 4:32 AM

RABIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Daikath:
What I hate? The villain in Heart of Gold having the best gun in the sector and then it runs out of batteries after having missed Mal. Totally unbelievable.

And I dislike some of the CGI, most of the time I truly dispise CGI but in Firefly it isn't that bad, only in The Message when you see the smoke is clearly CGI or the chandeleir in Shindig.

I just see it is so clearly fake and for the most of the time in movies and in tv series they don't even try to do it the old fashioned way, they just grab for the computer.

I completely agree with you on the laser in Heart of Gold - that one bothered me.

The chandelier, though... Heheh... See, personally, I think that it was a slam on all those shows that do the effect just for the effect (e.g., Phantom Menace). Mal's line referring to it was what made me realize that they were making fun of all that blatant and pointless CGI use. I don't remember the comment off the top of my head, but it was something to the effect of "What's the point?" Very funny, if you ask me...

Rabit

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Monday, November 22, 2004 4:36 AM

MAUGWAI


Quote:

Originally posted by Jumpy:
Oh yeh, one line, Book says to Inara:

"I don't think the Captain would much like me praying for him."

What priest in their right mind would care if someone wouldn't like them praying for them? As a faithful person, just because someone doesn't believe in God or has some problem with God in general, doesn't stop me praying for their safety or happiness or whatever.

Lol its just funny that Book, a Shepherd, would not understand such a fundamental part of the Christian faith and Inara would. That's pretty much the one line in firefly that annoys me

__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...




But every Christian has a deifferent interpretation of the religion. For one thing, forced conversion is immoral in the Christian faith (not that many haven't done that). Book has respect for Mal's wishes, and Mal does not wish to have a relationship with God. Book does not want to violate that because of his own beliefs. I think that's a very Christian response, as is Inara's.

As for annoyances - The captain not telling Tracey his plan kind of bothers me. If he'd explained it, Tracey might not have ended up dead.



"Dear diary, today I was pompous and my sister was crazy."

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Monday, November 22, 2004 4:49 AM

JUMPY


You're right, there are different interpretations of the religion. But I'm not talking about conversion or trying to change Mal's own beliefs though.

And you're right, Book does respect Mal's wishes.
That's why he's not saying "LOVE GOD YOU DAMN FOOL! LOVE HIM NOW!" and shoving a bible in his face.

But that's really got nothing to do with Book praying for Mal's safety. There is a huge difference between trying to force someone into your beliefs, and through your beliefs praying for their wellbeing. Why should Book really be hesitant about doing the latter? The fact is that Mal doesn't need to know about it, and its not going to have a negative effect on him. I don't feel you should have someone's express consent to simply pray for them, whatever their denomination or lack-there-of.

__________________________
There's no show I'd rather see, than the one with Serenity.
You can't take the sky from me...

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Monday, November 22, 2004 5:04 AM

RHYMEPHILE


When I first watched the show, I pretty much fast-forwarded through the entire episode of "Safe." The acting from the extras was awful; the whole "witch" subtext was just plain dumb; the black nurse was such a Gone With the Wind stereotype; the dance scene had nice music but was corny; and there are too many plot holes in that ep to make it enjoyable.

I think a few of the early episodes of the season weren't as good as they could have been, but I chalk that up to growing pains. As the season went on the eps improved, but "Safe" is one that will continue to annoy me.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"My office! Burgled! Plundered! Purloined! Ha ha ha...loins."

-- Phil Sebben, Harvey Birdman: Attorney at Law

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Monday, November 22, 2004 5:17 AM

GROUNDED


- Visible lasers and all things holo. What exactly is the light reflecting off of eh? I know, dramatic device, but still...

- Chinese phrases. Sometimes these are good and sometimes they're so out of place it's ridiculous.

- Some of the 'old west' speak is a bit out of place too, particularly Zoe's. But then this was a first season so you have to give the cast time to perfect it ;)

- The Message plot holes. Good ep but could have been an absolute classic.

On the subject of CGI, I would imagine things such as the chandelier in Shindig are done in CG simply because it's now cheaper. And the CG in Firefly is exceptionally good anyway so I'm surprised anyone is complaining.

The Mal adrenaline injection - is there a particular reason why this bothered you? I don't know anything about it's medical feasibility but, for me, it's the single best scene of the entire series.

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Monday, November 22, 2004 5:24 AM

EST120


Quote:

Originally posted by nedward:
I think I agree with the Purple one. (No, not about Janis Joplin!) Petaline realistically shooting Rance Burgess is effective because it's unexpected in the general context of TV today. See also Mal shooting Lawrence Dobson, Mal shoving Crow in the engine...



putting crow through the engine was more comical than violent, in my opinion. dobson was violent, but necessary seeing as there were so many pressing matters that needed to be dealt with such as the reavers and zoe being shot (although she had armor on, she must have at least been somewhat hurt). shooting burgess, though, seemed so much for revenge. the look on mal's face is one of vengeance, not justice. it seems overly cruel and quite shocking to do in front of a baby (albeit, though the baby certainly does not comprehend it and probably will not remember it anyway).

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Thursday, November 25, 2004 9:15 AM

EBONEZER


I've always hated Alan's delivery of the "We've only been, you know, giving each other significant glances..." line in OMR.

LOVE Alan, and Wash, but just don't like how he said that line.

-----------------------------------

Four out of five dentists reccomend calling Ebo a girl.

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 8:37 AM

GEEZER

Keep the Shiny side up


Quote:

Originally posted by est120:
shooting burgess, though, seemed so much for revenge. the look on mal's face is one of vengeance, not justice.



I didn't find Petaline's actions hard to understand at all. Burgess, had stolen her baby, killed and injured her friends, nearly destroyed her home, showed no remorse about any of it, and, if left alive, would do the same thing all over again. There was no local law to turn him over to for prosecution. He was a threat as long as he was alive. A clear case of pre-emptive self-defense. And if she and Mal enjoyed it a little, all the better.



"Keep the Shiny side up"

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 9:21 AM

SAZTRONIC


I'm all new and whatnot, never heard of Firefly 3 weeks ago, when my sister-in-law gave me the DVD set as an early Christmas gift. I love the show, 3 eps in particular were the best made-for-TV SF I've seen. But there's a lot to be annoyed about.

How about how easy it is for the crew to escape all the time? Take Ariel as the worst example -- sure, maybe they could get out of the hospital with River. But there's two wacky-evil guys right behind them with gizmos that melt all your capillaries but they don't have anybody in orbit they can radio to stop Serenity once they get out atmo? Mal's so busy scaring Jayne for five minutes it never once occurs to him there might be pursuit? Guess it doesn't have to, because inexplicably there ain't any.

There are other examples, starting with "Serenity" and that cry-baby ruse the Alliance goes for hook-line.

Then there's "Trash". Saffron has been gone *six years*, but her security entry codes are still valid, despite the fact that she disappeared with the former security chief who later turned up dead, for crying out loud. I change my passwords every two weeks, but in the future it's cool to leave them the same for years on end?

Anyway, I say that as someone who loves the show, even these eps, but some of these things are easily avoidable continuity problems or nonsensical plot devices.

Pain Don't Hurt

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 9:46 AM

TETHYS


well......one of the themes explored was:

Love can blind.

On the note of "Ariel" which rmains my third fav ep. The "getaway" vehicle was disguised as an ambulance for one. Another thing is that Serenity is cargo transport, of which was very common in the setting. They would have no reason to pick one at random to stop. The authorities really didn't know that Simon and River were on the ship, despite their attempts to find out otherwise. They simply didn't know where to look.

"Your mouth is talking. Might wanna see to that"

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 9:57 AM

SAZTRONIC


I hear you, and I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, o' course, but....

There's a bounty of 200,000 on River's head. Some seriously badass dudes, with seriously badass resources, are after her -- so badass they don't think twice about melting whole squads of Feds into piles of red goo just because they talked to River.

And in "Jaynesville," it seemed ridiculously easy for the backwater mining dude to put a "Ground Lock" on Serenity.

But the bald badass dudes can't, say, restrict off-planet launches from Ariel for an hour or something while the authorities review ship records? They can't "ground lock" all ships in the vicinity of the hospital? Maybe this would be too conspicuous, but those guys didn't strike me as being overly worried about conspicuousness -- like I said, they wasted a whole sqaud of Feds.

On the blindness of love, I hear you -- maybe the security codes were left that way just in case Saffron returned, 'cuz her husband wanted it so bad. But it wouldn't be hard to add a line like "I was alerted to your presence as soon as you walked through the door" or somesuch.

Anyway, enough obsessing -- the show does kick ass in general, regardless of any of this.....

Pain Don't Hurt

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 10:01 AM

RABIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Saztronic:
Then there's "Trash". Saffron has been gone *six years*, but her security entry codes are still valid, despite the fact that she disappeared with the former security chief who later turned up dead, for crying out loud. I change my passwords every two weeks, but in the future it's cool to leave them the same for years on end?

While I'm right with you on some of the minor stuff, this one I don't agree with, but that's because I made different assumptions than you did.

I assumed that she had an inside person who "gave" her the latest rotation of passwords/codes. She knew the set up, in general, because that kind of thing you don't change. But - again - just my assumption...

Oh, and wasn't it a programmer that she left with (who later turned up dead)?

Rabit

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 10:23 AM

MALICIOUS


Quote:

Originally posted by maugwai:
As for annoyances - The captain not telling Tracey his plan kind of bothers me. If he'd explained it, Tracey might not have ended up dead.



While I agree with you on this for the most part (98% of me) the other part (the remaining 2%, that is) thinks that Tracey should have trusted Mal enough to know he wouldn't turn him in. Tracey was just assuming Mal was more like him (Tracey) in that he (Tracey) would have turned Mal in.

The thing that reeeaaalllly annoys me in all of Firefly is Tracey saying "THANKyew" several times. It just makes me bug.

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 10:35 AM

SHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by Malicious:
Quote:

Originally posted by maugwai:
As for annoyances - The captain not telling Tracey his plan kind of bothers me. If he'd explained it, Tracey might not have ended up dead.



While I agree with you on this for the most part (98% of me) the other part (the remaining 2%, that is) thinks that Tracey should have trusted Mal enough to know he wouldn't turn him in. Tracey was just assuming Mal was more like him (Tracey) in that he (Tracey) would have turned Mal in.



In the original script, Book actually starts to try to explain the plan to Tracy, but is cut off by the panicy private waving a gun at him and insulting him ("bible-thumper"), which pisses Mal off and makes him even less inclined to explain himself, which he never really likes doing anyway, he just expects people to trust him and follow his orders (see for example Bushwhacked and his ordering Simon to get River)

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 2:48 PM

NIKNAK


Quote:

Originally posted by Saztronic:
How about how easy it is for the crew to escape all the time? Take Ariel as the worst example -- sure, maybe they could get out of the hospital with River. But there's two wacky-evil guys right behind them with gizmos that melt all your capillaries but they don't have anybody in orbit they can radio to stop Serenity once they get out atmo?



I get the impression that the city was very big so easy to lose someone and ships are comming and going all the time. Once the hands-of-blue lost sight of them and didn't know what vehicle they were in they had little chance of finding them. The thing that bothered me about Ariel was that the hands-of-blue just walked and didn't run to try and catch up with them.

Quote:


Then there's "Trash". Saffron has been gone *six years*, but her security entry codes are still valid, despite the fact that she disappeared with the former security chief who later turned up dead, for crying out loud. I change my passwords every two weeks, but in the future it's cool to leave them the same for years on end?



He was the security programmer and not a very loyal employee. He probably had put in a secret password/backdoor in their systems so he and Saffron could always get back in.

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 3:07 PM

NIKNAK


1) The fire in 'Out of Gas' annoyed me by looking pretty fake. Fire is incredibly hard to do and I guess blowing a real fireball through the set would have been too expensive and risky. Also, the blast gave Zoe internal injuries but no visible burns. I guess they couldn't afford the make-up either.

2) At the end of 'Safe' Simon says that Book was the first serious injury, but he's forgetting Kaylee in Serenity. I guess we have Fox to blame for not showing Serenity.

Otherwise the scripts and effects were excellent.

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Wednesday, December 8, 2004 5:09 PM

RABIT


Quote:

Originally posted by niknak:
Also, the blast gave Zoe internal injuries but no visible burns. I guess they couldn't afford the make-up either.

I assumed that the internal injuries were due to the impact from being thrown by the force of the blast. The fire never really hit her, but the explosion itself threw her through the room. But that was just my assumption...
Quote:

Originally posted by niknak:
2) At the end of 'Safe' Simon says that Book was the first serious injury, but he's forgetting Kaylee in Serenity. I guess we have Fox to blame for not showing Serenity.

I think that he meant since he'd taken on the job of ship's doctor. That was a role that he did not have when he saved Kaylee's life. Again, just my assumptions...

Rabit

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 10:10 AM

BENDIS


Nobody has touched on the extremely clean and super quick Reaver's in Bushwhacked. They took over a ship with 16 families and yet there was nothing disturbed and no blood anywhere. In Serenity Zoe says that Reavers will rape you to death, eat you and sew your skin into their clothes... and yet they do it with the utmost care not to make a mess of your ship for when someone else comes along. If they are really as insane and cannibalistic as they want to make them out as then there should have been blood everywhere, and signs of a struggle.

Another annoying thing is in War Stories when the crew goes to rescue the Captain Jane brings along Vera and then uses a pistol the whole time. Why bother bringing the big gun if you don't use it. And another thing was Zoe's roll and drawing of her two pistols. It looked so fake. They should have had her practice a lot so that it looked fluid. I mean she is supposed to be a warrior woman. Her fighting in Train Job at the bar looked really pathetic for a trained fighter too.

----------
"We're not gonna die! We can't die, Bendis!
You know why? Because we are so very pretty. We are just too pretty for God to let us die. Huh? Look at that chiseled jaw."

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 10:28 AM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Bendis:
I mean she is supposed to be a warrior woman.

True, and I'd add the opening scene of Serenity, too. I would blame Fox for wanting a greater action element in a show that had been cast for actors who could create the personality of their characters. For me, Gina Torres is wonderful as Zoe but doesn't appear to be a natural athlete. She would have to rely on a sympathetic director for any action sequences, and that seems to have been understood by the war sequence in The Message, but that's sadly late in the sequence of episodes we have.

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 11:20 AM

RABIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Bendis:
Why bother bringing the big gun if you don't use it.

Hey! I know some legitimate responses to this one! (In this case, I'm going to give real reasons why I - as ex-military - would consider not using the big gun when I have smaller tools available. Please note that these are just guesses on my part as to why he wouldn't use Vera - I don't know anything more than anyone else! )

1. Ammo: Vera may take ammo that is more expensive and/or harder to come by. In this case, you save her for specific situations, such as punching through barriers someone may be hiding behind (tables, doors, walls, etc.).
2. Use a tool for it's intended use. They don't need to slaughter these guys - just take them out enough to get the cap and get out. Vera's over kill for the majority of this situation.
3. Accuracy: Vera is a larger gun, and in a small setting like that, when you start pulling that trigger, you're probably losing a significant amount of accuracy. Jayne was not leading this run, so a loss of accuracy would increase his chances of taking out an ally - something that even Jayne probably isn't interested in, when that ally is Mal or Zoe! (I know I don't want either of them mad at me... )

Feel free to disagree - I'm just giving my thoughts on why this might have been. Heck, it could have been that they just didn't want to deal with the cost/risk of firing a gun like that in the situation they were filming in!
Quote:

Originally posted by Bendis:
And another thing was Zoe's roll and drawing of her two pistols. It looked so fake. They should have had her practice a lot so that it looked fluid. I mean she is supposed to be a warrior woman. Her fighting in Train Job at the bar looked really pathetic for a trained fighter too.

Agreed. I have a feeling that this was a constraint of doing a weekly show with a small budget. They didn't have the time or the resources to give her the training needed for this kind of a role.

However, I'm seriously looking forward to what they've done with her in the movie...

Rabit

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 12:03 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


I didn't mind the end of HoG. I felt it appropriate, for the situation those folks lived in AND what Rance had done to Nandi. What really bugged me was the chase scene between Mal ( on horse ) going after Rance ( on hover craft ). Sorry, it just looked TOO hoaky! " Ok..i'm coming to get you....aH HA!! I'll blast you with my ray gun! DRAT! Low battery! ... If I could just ride up along side you, I'll leap over to your hover craft.... OOooffff! Ok, I have you at gun point.... naww, I'll just hit you in the face w/ my closed fist!! "

Please.

Also, the whole " I'm Mal, do as I say" . 2 times = Once in The Message, the other in Bushwhacked, Mal could have saved a mess of confusion and gun play had he just TOLD everyone from the start what the plan was....

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 12:32 PM

POTEMKINVILLAGER


Quote:

Originally posted by AURaptor:
naww, I'll just hit you in the face w/ my closed fist!! "

"


I agree with yer other concerns but for this one. 1) Mal swats the guy with his gun (annoying picky devil on PV's left shoulder made him point this out...). 2) Totally the right way for Cap'n Mal's character to deal with the situation. Y'see, Mal's got a hyper-developed sense of justice, and he would have known to his bones that the injustice he suffered amounted to much less that the total inflicted upon the ladies of the House, so it would have been a no-brainer to hand Rance's hide to the ladies (and gentlefolk) so they could pass judgement.

Myself chooses to forgive gaping plot holes, 'cuz otherwise the show is so unbelievably superior to most anything else squoze in between the ads. And it's gotta be rather difficult to get in all that one can for one storyline in just 43 minutes.

Still, I agree with Tim Minnear: Mal needed a siightly more intimidating firearm in OoG.

End of rant....



"The trouble with normal is it always gets worse."

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 1:37 PM

SHINYSEVEN


About Vera: Hell, one of the best reasons to have a REALLY BIG GUN is to intimidate people, and lots of itmes you'd rather intimidate people than shoot 'em anyway.

I think the whole point about the parallel between Bushwhacked and The Message is precisely that Trust Issues are hugely important in everything that develops a fan following. And when you deal with Mal, if you ain't got faith, he fixes you. For good.

I did think that in Serenity it was kind of pointless to be in such a hurry to dispose of the goods--having a gazillion-person-year supply of nonperishable food doesn't seem like the worst problem you could have, and sooner or later they'd run into someone who would be willing to buy or barter even imprinted goods.

In my world, Man is born free and is everywhere in chains. And you can ride them like ponies.

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 9:09 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by PurpleBelly:
Do I have company, or is there really such a thing as too much Janis Joplin?


Neither.

Then again, it's easy to have too much Big Bro' & the Holding Company (four bars without Janis should do it). To call them a drug-addled garage band is an insult to the drug-addled garage band community.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Janis, "My Baby", from "Kozmic Blues"

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Thursday, December 9, 2004 10:55 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


It bugs me that Nathan, Gina & Jewel can't say "ain't" like they've been sayin' it all their lives. Adam can.

Doesn't bother me so much that Ron Glass can't either, 'cause he's just bad. He reads almost every line he's got, rather than acting his character & making his dialogue sound natural. When Firefly began, he'd done more TV than the rest of the cast put together, but he can't speak the way his character is written. Why'd Joss hire this guy?

What really pisses me off is bad physics, with an honourable mention to inconsistent or silly arithmetic.
When the Dortmunder hears the Cry-Baby, it mimics a ship 13 klicks away. That's walking distance. If they can't see it with the naked eye, let somebody grab a pair of binocs & check it out.
The physics in the pilot ep is great; later eps have problems.
In Bushwacked, Serenity is hit by a human body in a spacesuit, and moves & shakes.
In War Stories, Serenity approaches Nishka's space station @12,000 miles per hour (hit a bull's eye 6,000 miles away; last fired jets a half hour ago), hits without retro fire, & amazingly without damaging either itself or the station's airlock.
In the Message, the feds fire rockets @Serenity. How did the director (Tim Minear)screw this up? Let me count the ways:
The rockets leave smoke trails in space.
When they explode, the shell of the explosion is constrained (by what? Luminiferous Aether?)
We hear the explosion.
And, of course, Serenity is moved & shaken.
There are lots of other things in the Message that bother me but, they're minor compared to this.
By the b'ye, I'm not much bothered that the captain didn't explain his plan to Tracy (or to Simon). A military leader doesn't explain.

That brings me to another thing that bothers me a lot. Ain't no way in hell that a corporal who fought alongside a sergeant, for four years, while hundreds of their troopers died, would habitually refer to that brother in arms as "Sir".

I should point out that, if Firefly hadn't exhibited, in the pilot ep, the best space physics on TV since "From the Earth to the Moon", I probably wouldn't have watched it much. I certainly would never have found this site, let alone still be posting here, two years after the show was cancelled.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

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Thursday, December 23, 2004 10:49 AM

LETOV


Quote:

Originally posted by YT:

I should point out that, if Firefly hadn't exhibited, in the pilot ep, the best space physics on TV since "From the Earth to the Moon", I probably wouldn't have watched it much. I certainly would never have found this site, let alone still be posting here, two years after the show was cancelled.

Keep the Shiny Side Up



Not to completely discount/disagree with everything you said, but throughout the series (while I wasn't necessarily looking for it) I never noticed anything that bothered me physics-wise like the open space encounter between Serenity and the Reaver's ship in the pilot. Here we have two ships travelling through space presumably at high speed and they have this slow tense close encounter going nearly opposite directions? Please... That said, I never expect anything like real-space physics in fiction so it doesn't bother me that much.

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Thursday, December 23, 2004 11:06 AM

CHANNAIN

i DO aim to misbehave


Quote:

Originally posted by est120:
okay, we all love firefly. none of us would be here if we did not. still, there must be SOME things about firefly that bug the heck out of you.

The way Nathan rides a horse. In Serenity, at least with both hands on the reins he could hide that he didn't have quite enough training in the saddle (I'm not even sure all the actors were actually on real horses during the close-ups on the ride back to the ship). But in Heart of Gold? Forget it - I can't watch him ride. That scene where he's pursuing Rance Burgeon and the hovercar was meant for a "Return to Snowy River" sequence - Aussie-style hell-bent for leather riding, sans the slow-motin effects of course. He's supposed to have been a rancher once upon a time, right? And I can accept that there wasn't enough time for Nathan to get familiar enough with the horse to make it look good. Still, any wrangler worth his salt should have said to him, "Um, Nathan? You need to put the hand down, man. Seriously."

Mal's horse might have made it out of a cantor for about five seconds, only I'm not sure because I can't watch it anymore.

The women on "MacLeod's Daughters" ride better than that.

Fans come and fans go...but zealots are with you until the bitter black end.
I draw...therefore I am. http://www.mnartists.org/artistHome.do?rid=7922
Minnesota Meetup - join us! http://firefly.meetup.com/45/

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Monday, January 17, 2005 5:21 PM

DREZ


Quote:

Originally posted by niknak:
1) The fire in 'Out of Gas' annoyed me by looking pretty fake. Fire is incredibly hard to do and I guess blowing a real fireball through the set would have been too expensive and risky. Also, the blast gave Zoe internal injuries but no visible burns. I guess they couldn't afford the make-up either.



To me the fire looked fine... We are talking about fireballs in a rapidly decompressing area. And also zoe getting internal injuries but not external is very easy. She was jumping through the path of the explosion, to push kaylee away. She just missed the actual fire.... she didnt miss breathing in a lungful of the superheated air that precedes an explosion like that. This- burns your lungs and causes internal injuries but no visile external ones.

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Monday, January 17, 2005 9:55 PM

RAT


Quote:

Originally posted by est120:
there must be SOME things about firefly that bug the heck out of you. any scenes of specific lines or aspects of the series that drive you nuts everytime you see it?



Let's moon umm!

-Ratboy

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Monday, January 17, 2005 10:16 PM

PURPLEBELLY


Quote:

Originally posted by Channain:
The women on "MacLeod's Daughters" ride better than that.

I think you may have caught something here. Perhaps the reason the movie is less Western than the TV series isn't because the writer is jumping onto the wushu bandwagon, but because the actors fall off the horses

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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7:34 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


And how about dollar-physics? I know cattle would have a high mark-up in the Firefly 'verse, but would it be worth burning all that fuel to land them in Safe?

I'd like to be king of all Londinum and wear a shiny hat.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 7:38 AM

EST120


Quote:

Originally posted by pizmobeach:
And how about dollar-physics? I know cattle would have a high mark-up in the Firefly 'verse, but would it be worth burning all that fuel to land them in Safe?

I'd like to be king of all Londinum and wear a shiny hat.



that is a good point. it is one thing to be moving things like jewels or gold or something but cattle are a different story. still, the viewer is not privy to how much to costs to operate one of these ships. perhaps it is not as much as one might think. sort of analogous to buying gas for your car. not so expensive that most people can afford it.

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Tuesday, January 18, 2005 8:46 AM

KINGPAUSE


Two things in "Serenity", which I never would have noticed had they not been pointed out in the DVD commentaries, but which bug the crap out of me everytime because now I can't not notice:

1) Inara holding the steering wheel of her shuttle upside down in the beginning, and

2) Wash not holding the steering wheel at all in the end

I'm also not the biggest fan of "Heart of Gold" for all the reasons pointed out and more. I have problems with "Safe" also, but the episode is redeemed by the exchange between Mal and Simon at the end ("You're in my crew") - just one of those classic Firefly moments, imo.

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