GENERAL DISCUSSIONS

WOO HOO!!!! Seriously good review from VERY noteworthy source!!!

POSTED BY: STATIC
UPDATED: Sunday, February 20, 2005 21:23
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 17692
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Friday, January 21, 2005 7:47 AM

STATIC


Orson Scott Card, the NOTED Science-Fiction author. . .heralded by some to be the BEST Sci-Fi writer of our age. . .the FIRST to ever win both the HUGO and the NEBULA awards TWO YEARS IN A ROW for "Ender's Game" and "Speaker for the Dead" lives in my hometown of Greensboro, NC. He writes for a local paper called "The Rhinoceros Times", who's editor-in-chief is a self-appointed watchdog of local politics. In his weekly piece, "Uncle Orson Reviews Everything", THIS is what one of the finest SCI-FI minds had to say about our beloved show.

Quote:


It only lasted one year on FOX, but Firefly was, in my opinion, the best space-opera sci-fi series ever on television, and you can get the whole season now on DVD.

I was stunned by the stupidity of the bad reviews this series got. I suppose if you think television should be Desperate Housewives or Felicity or some other thing that passes for "edgy", Firefly won't look good to you.

But the writing is witty, just a little tongue-in-cheek, and keenly aware of what good science fiction is supposed to be.

Though I could make a good case for Firefly being the best western on television since Maverick.

It's fun even as it's tense, and it's smart all the time. So smart that some reviewers have no clue what they're seeing.

The actors are wonderful, though a couple of characters can be annoying, especcially at first (couldn't Jewel Staite have occasionally stopped smiling idiotically during the early episodes?).

Adam Baldwin, whose career began in the great high school movie My Bodyguard back in 1980 finally has the role of his career.

Gina Torres, a survivor of the Matrix sequels, is boldly credible as soldier-of-fortune Zoe; Morena Baccarin is luminous as the "companion" (i.e., really expensive prostititute) Inara Serra; and Alan Tudyk, a hit in A Knight's Tale, is equally charming as the pilot, Wash.

Delightful as Ron Glass was on Barney Miller and The New Odd Couple, I think he's got his best role here as the enigmatic preacher. While Sean Maher has recovered from the debacle of the remake of Brian's Song to play a truly complicated (and really cute, my wife tell me,) character.

And Nathan Fillion rises out of nowhere - small forgettable parts where he was little more than a pretty face - to show that he has the strength to carry a TV series.

They're making a movie called Serenity, to be released next September, and the whole cast will appear in it. Count on it getting bad reviews; go anyway. And prepare for it by buying or renting the Firefly DVDs.




YEAH!!!!!!! SCORE!!!!!!

Remind me to send that guy a fruit basket or something!!!

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Friday, January 21, 2005 8:16 AM

EMBERS


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
Orson Scott Card
Quote:


They're making a movie called Serenity, to be released next September, and the whole cast will appear in it. Count on it getting bad reviews; go anyway. And prepare for it by buying or renting the Firefly DVDs.





well, I sure hope this quy is wrong about 'Serenity'
I have my heart set on Joss being recognized as the next big thing...
I want 'Serenity' to be the unlooked for sensation that 'Raiders of the Lost Arc' was!

am I hoping for too much?

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Friday, January 21, 2005 8:50 AM

AUROTER


Woah, let's be nice. I happen to like his books, and good reviews by well-enough-known sci-fi writers are promising. Let's just enjoy the attention and popularity we get, no matter what source. The more, the better I say.

you can't take the sky from me

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Friday, January 21, 2005 8:51 AM

STARPILOTGRAINGER


I vehemently disagree with the man's politics, but I like the man's fiction... hell, I've even got a quote from Ender's Game in my sig. He _is_ one of the most highly rated - he didn't just win Hugos (which are decided on fan popularity) on a number of occasions, but also Nebulas (decided by other SF writers and editors), for the same works. He's written books on writing SF that are still popular. As a writer of science fiction, he's well known and respected, even if his personal views are way off the mark IMHO. It is a shame that there can be such a disconnect in a person, but I'll not throw out the good just because of the bad either.

Whether his endorsement means a lot for Firefly, I don't know - I know a lot of SF fans who hadn't heard of Firefly or who hadn't liked it based on the whole 'Western in Space' vibe. Maybe this'll convince them to give it another look.

Star Pilot Grainger
"Remember, the enemy's gate is down."
LJ: http://www.livejournal.com/users/newnumber6 (real)
http://www.livejournal.com/users/alternaljournal (fictional)
Unreachable Star: http://www.unreachablestar.net - Comics & SF News/Reviews/Opinions

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Friday, January 21, 2005 9:07 AM

STATIC


Something else that should be kept in mind. . .

The publication this bit appeared in is, as I mentioned, an independantly published local newspaper that is read by a very wide audience in two major NC cities. The people who read this paper often support practically everything they read (it's sometimes disheartening, how easily the people of this city are 'led'), and I'm confident that there's almost two entire cities right now saying to themselves, "Hrmmmm. . .Uncle Orson likes this "Firefly" show. I think I'll check it out."

Then, of course. . .Joss' work will do the rest. . .hearts and minds will be won. . .the movie will be the 'sleeper sensation' of 2005, we'll get to see Joss get an Oscar. . .Adam Baldwin will get an Oscar for "Best Supporting Actor". . .Summer Glau for "Best Actress". . ."Firefly" for "Best Musical Score". . . Universal will make SO MUCH money on the movie, they'll wave money under FOX's nose. . .FOX, being money grubbing idiots, will hand over TV rights. . .our beloved crew will double-team the small screen AND the big screen. . .

*shiver*

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Friday, January 21, 2005 9:15 AM

HJERMSTED


Bad reviews?!?!

O.S. Card must be assuming Firefly was canceled due to poor critical reception which isn't the case at all. The show, as we all know, was canceled because Fox execs didn't get it (or perhaps couldn't even SEE it with their heads lodged firmly up their asses).

I appreciate his review of the Firefly DVD set, but I wonder if Card has watched the 'Serenity' or 'Train Job' episodes with the commentary tracks? The Firefly vs. Fox story is made apparent there (granted from a pro-Firefly perspective).

Firefly received fantastic reviews and support from mainstream outlets such USA Today and TV Guide AS WELL AS from online geek havens such as AICN, CHUD and Dark Horizons.

I love O.S. Card's books regardless of his opinions/commentaries (Treason is one of my all time favorite novels)... but, socio-politically, he always seems to me to be a bit out of touch with what's really going on if not just plain square.

mattro

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Friday, January 21, 2005 9:18 AM

STATIC


Bear in mind that after the DVD set was released there were some bad reviews. . .but we don't sweat small stuff from small minds.

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Friday, January 21, 2005 11:41 AM

BADGERSHAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
Something else that should be kept in mind. . .



Hey!!!

That's MY line, dude!! Check my threads, I and I alone am the one who always says "Keep in mind" and you're paraphrasing me without my express written permission.


No Christmas card for you this year...

I know absolutely NOTHING about Orson Scott Card, other than I see abouta billion of his books in Barnes & Nobles. But I've never read a word he's scribed, nor have I ever heard anything about theman himself before reading this thread.

If the description offered here is accurate (and I have no reason to doubt it), I'd have to say this:

1) He's a moron, in a class with Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson and their ilk. If they believe God mae all mankind, and that God made us as we are, then they should, by definition, believe that God made some of us same-sex oriented, some of us opposite-sex oriented, and some of not not give a crap either way

2) He's obviously well known, with a built-in audience who like his work. Many artists, in books, film, music and otherwise, create amazing work, but are, personally, dickwads who are detested by thousands. First example--did you know that something like 45% of Howard Stern's listening audience claims to HATE him and his entire career? They listen to him so they know what he does, and will, subsequently, know what horrible thing he's done that they can complain about. The average Stern FAN listens 38 minutes a day. The average Stern HATER listens almost double that. Both groups listen for the same reason--"I want to know what he'll say next."

I'm not saying we should embrace OSCs politics or anything, but anyone with a known name and audience is a worthwhile endorsement. Let's just use his schmuck-faced ass to help the cause.

And obviously, deep down inside he LIKES gay/lesbian activity, because he professed to LOVE the show (best sci-fi and western show on TV at the same time) DESPITE the VERY NOT-HIDDEN sex scene between two women in "War Stories"--makes you think, huh?

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
--Don't bother trying to predict, figure out, second guess, criticize, or suggest anything that comes from the mind of Joss Whedon, for you shall usually be wrong, and shall find out the Truth and Purpose in due time.
(This is the Truth of Whedoning)

"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Friday, January 21, 2005 12:13 PM

BADGERSHAT


I have to agree with you--I don't like militant homophobes, either. Actually, I don't like militant ANYTHING, for that matter. I don't like militant people who have the EXACT SAME opinions I have... loud people piss me off.

And, as I said, I know nothing about the guy, but I do think that, in the sci-fi fan world, there's probably a lor of people a lot more open minded than not, and I have to believe that the people who read him probably just like his stories, and couldn't care less about his views (I hope, anyway).

So, let's hope he just says "I like it" and keeps his mouth shut beyond that, and that his fans, ALL of them, go see "Serenity" three times each (and that one out of every three of those fans brings their gay friends with them!).

Wouldn't it be great if a gay-rights organization had a group outing (no pun intended) to see "Serenity" and made a public statement that they all went to see if after readin Orson Scott Card's review? And that OSC has like a billion gay fans? That would probably drive the dude out of his mind--"I hate them all!! And yet, they're paying for my mansion and fleet of cars... "

Just a thought...

--Jefé The Hat

***************************
--Don't bother trying to predict, figure out, second guess, criticize, or suggest anything that comes from the mind of Joss Whedon, for you shall usually be wrong, and shall find out the Truth and Purpose in due time.
(This is the Truth of Whedoning)

"I like smackin 'em"--Jayne

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Friday, January 21, 2005 12:20 PM

NEDWARD


Regardless of OSC's roles as Noted Homophobe and Noted SF Author, I think he's a good reviewer. I've read his column for years and tried a number of things on his recommendations, which have almost always proven good ones.

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Friday, January 21, 2005 2:02 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.


Static,

It's a great review.

Don't forget to send that guy a fruit basket or something.


BTW. Do you think your friend who runs a theater will be able to book Serenity?

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Friday, January 21, 2005 3:42 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by embers:
I want 'Serenity' to be the unlooked for sensation that 'Raiders of the Lost Arc' was!

am I hoping for too much?


"Unlooked for"? From the director who had directed the biggest grossing movie of all time six years earlier, and the producer who had executive-produced two biggest grossing movies of all time within the previous four years?


Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: God (aka Clapton), "Bell Bottom Blues", from "One More Car, One More Rider"

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Friday, January 21, 2005 4:03 PM

NEUTRINOLAD


Shiny! Thanks for this Static, you never know whqat you're missing.
Any press is good press at this point, and, whether you agree with OSC on all things or some or none, he sure has a lot of readers.

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Friday, January 21, 2005 4:13 PM

LISTER


OK, this is my first post here after a LOT of lurking, and it isn't pro or anti-gay, but it does have to do with OSC and Firefly fans.

OSC is one of my favorite SF writers. I know NOTHING about the man personally other than what I have read in this thread, and I am sure 99% or the poeple who read his works are just like me. SO when I hear he was a fan of the show, and I know how good his books are, that would AUTOMATICALLY intrigue me if I hadn't heard about the show before. SF writer endorses SF show sounds like a good fit to me.

And if you know nothing about his works and want to make your own opinion, I would whole-heartedly suggest you read Enders Game and the entire Alvin Maker series. Just so you know, Ender's Game is more space sci-fi and the Alvin MAker series is more historical fantasy, but really fun.

Hopefully my first post was a constructive one.

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Friday, January 21, 2005 4:45 PM

OLDFAN45


Can I come live in your world, too? It's a much prettier place than mine is...and FOX cuttin' themselves out of a money deal just won't be happenin'. Buuuuuut...may all the rest come true and soon!

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Friday, January 21, 2005 7:19 PM

FULLCAPACITY


Who gives a shit?

Seriously.

A good public review with a decent reader base for that publication, be it Card or Ebert or Joe the neighborhood drunk, is just as good to me. And good for the show and film.

Its important that people not exposed to Firefly get some buzz about the series and the film, who cares if the fans like the other fans out there, quasi celebrity or not?

All I give a shit about is that as many people see the movie as possible, whether I like those people or not, so that the potential for sequels or something else will exist.

Who cares what Card's agenda is? If the guy who owned Coca Cola was a diehard Republican, do you think he gives a shit if people who like John Kerry buy his soft drink?

The reason Firefly got cancelled is the same reason why no one should hammer Card for the free buzz he gave Firefly - Money.

Fox thought they could make more money with something else. Stupid decision or not, sci fi shows are expensive to make and have a limited fanbase in most cases. Firefly, for whatever reasons including Fox ineptitude, got bad ratings. Thats it, it killed the show whether it was fair or not.

If you want to blame someone, blame Whedon. He could have pitched Firefly to anyone. Especially UPN as a package deal for more seasons of BTVS. Chris Carter did it THREE TIMES. He used X Files to extort Millenium, Lone Gunmen and Harsh Realm out of Fox.

If you want to blame Fox, then fine. Then blame Whedon too. But don't nail Card because he's giving the show free buzz.

Full Capacity

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Friday, January 21, 2005 7:39 PM

SHINY


MOD NOTE: Unfortunately, this board does not currently give mods the ability to split parts of threads and discussions into different forums, so instead of leaving this degenerating thread as it was, or moving the whole gorram thing to troll country, I've decided to just delete the individual posts that were off-topic and/or flamebait.

In the future, please try to stay on-topic and reserve political comments to the appropriate threads/forums (like the real world forum)...and please try to remain civil. Remember, we're all browncoats here, and as the good doctor would say we "Got the same troubles (not enough Firefly), same enemies (F*x execs) - and more than enough of both."

Oh, and if you must flame each other, I'd take it as a kindness if you'd just start a thread in Troll Country -- it'd save us mods a lot of trouble.


Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Friday, January 21, 2005 7:44 PM

STATIC


YES!!!!!!


YOU RULE!!!!!!!

==================================================
"Wash. . .we got some local color happening. A grand entrance would not go amiss."

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Friday, January 21, 2005 9:18 PM

RAT


Quote:

Originally posted by Shiny:
MOD NOTE: Unfortunately, this board.......it'd save us mods a lot of trouble.



Best news all day! THANK YOU!!


-Ratboy

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Friday, January 21, 2005 10:45 PM

CGREALMS


Also, please note that while OSC supports the gay marriage ban, he doesn't neccessarily hate gays. While I certainly don't share his opinion, he views marriage as an union towards procreation and since homosexuals can't procreate (leaving out adoption, sperm banks, and the like, of course) they shouldn't be entitled to marriage rights. While, as I mentioned, I don't agree with him, I do feel it's a far cry from being a homophobe. I've . I never seen him write anything which suggests he has a problem with homosexuals as people, or even that homosexuality is a choice. Conservatives are respectful when Joss flings his political doo doo about. I would just like to see liberals be equally respectful when Card flings HIS political doo doo about. Besides, his politics have no bearing on his review.

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 6:53 AM

EMBASSY


Well, I think you might be missing the point somewhat with Orson Scott Card's attitudes towards church and state.

He used to, in the 1980s, run what he called "Secular Humanist Revival Meetings." When Brother Orson said "Do you believe?!" in the manner of a revival preacher, you are supposed to respond "IN WHAT?". And his characterization of Falwell and his ilk was blistering - it's really unfair to lump him in with them. All of this was a hoot, and all in good fun, but the point he was making was that the secularity of American public life is the greatest protection of American religious life. I don't think his views on this have altered substantially in the last two decades.

I do disagree with him politically, but that's life in a democracy for you. I do find his articulation of the reasons for religious people to support separation of church and state to be quite refreshing.

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Saturday, January 22, 2005 12:41 PM

MISGUIDED BY VOICES


Quote:

Originally posted by FullCapacity:
If you want to blame someone, blame Whedon. He could have pitched Firefly to anyone. Especially UPN as a package deal for more seasons of BTVS. Chris Carter did it THREE TIMES. He used X Files to extort Millenium, Lone Gunmen and Harsh Realm out of Fox.



Save that aside from Millenium, which he lost creative control of fairly early after the first season (which contained some good episodes), the other two got canned pretty damn quick.

Its the nature of the TV beast - there are few, if any, creators who can get a full 22 episode committment off the bat, together with a committment to support the show and play it out in its timeslot with ads and other promotions to let it build an audience. Right now, there's three that spring to mind -

Bruckheimer
Chase
Wolf

Despite Lost, I'm not convinced that Abrams is there yet.


"I threw up on your bed"

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Sunday, January 23, 2005 10:35 AM

RAVENU


Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
Orson Scott Card
Quote:


The actors are wonderful, though a couple of characters can be annoying, especcially at first (couldn't Jewel Staite have occasionally stopped smiling idiotically during the early episodes?).





Wow, I don't think he got Jewel's character at all - I thought it was all about her being light and Ms Sunshine, not a smiling idiot. The person who almost on her own had to balance out the darkness that the other characters put forward. I always thought if anything she was the most under-rated character on the show for her ability to keep the humanity flowing in the show. More so than any other character you felt what she felt when she felt it. She was ultra-real in that sence and unlike other characters throughout TV and movie history who are as smart as she was in keeping that ship running, most other characters in the past always had a chip on their shoulder or a jadedness to their character, as if you couldn't be happy at doing your job even in less than hospitable conditions. She still saw the best in people and that is a rare trait in any character and an event rarer trait when you can find someone who could pull that off as believiblely as Jewel did. Are we that jaded as a society that when we see a character as happy and innocent as Kaylee in such a dark story that we automatically sneer at the character and dismiss it as stupid, other than perhaps realizing that she is the embodiment of the innoncence lost by the other characters, and I think Jewel did a brilliant job of pulling it off and keeping Kaylee real and human and perhaps reminding some of us what we may have forsaken, that's the harder job is to be happy in an unhappy situtation cause you are at least still there. Just my 2 cents I guess.

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Sunday, January 23, 2005 11:54 AM

TIGER


Quote:

Originally posted by Shiny:
MOD NOTE: Unfortunately, this board does not currently give mods the ability to split parts of threads and discussions into different forums, so instead of leaving this degenerating thread as it was, or moving the whole gorram thing to troll country, I've decided to just delete the individual posts that were off-topic and/or flamebait.

In the future, please try to stay on-topic and reserve political comments to the appropriate threads/forums (like the real world forum)...and please try to remain civil. Remember, we're all browncoats here, and as the good doctor would say we "Got the same troubles (not enough Firefly), same enemies (F*x execs) - and more than enough of both."

Oh, and if you must flame each other, I'd take it as a kindness if you'd just start a thread in Troll Country -- it'd save us mods a lot of trouble.


Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

Since when does this board have MODS?!?

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Sunday, January 23, 2005 6:49 PM

JEWELSTAITE


Thanks, Ravenu.

"..smiling idiotically.." isn't exactly the thing I was going for with Kaylee. I love reading great reviews about our show, but that comment in particular didn't sit too well in my tummy.

I think, a lot of the time, people seem to forget that us actors read our reviews, and we read these posts as well. I'm glad I read yours. Thanks again... You're a peach!





Jewel

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Sunday, January 23, 2005 9:03 PM

FULLCAPACITY


I generally liked all the characters, but I could see how reviewers might be on the fence about everyone except Zoe and Book ( The show just didn't last long enough to give them much development IMHO).

What I did notice about the show, at least from Objects in Space is that characters are really paired off with some great complexity.

Relationship wise
Malcolm and Inara - The jaded couple who kind of define the time in people lives when circumstances and responsibilities outweigh your first instinct. I actually see this relationship as kind of tragic.

Simon and Kaylee - Two people who like each other but are kind of clueless in that pleasant way young people are about relationships. I've always seen this relationship as one about acceptance. Simon accepting that the life he once had is pretty much over and Kaylee accepting certain realities about her own insecurity. I think this relationship is the one most people can really identify with since there is such a steep learning curve for both of them.

Wash and Zoe - The couple who struggles to stay together. Its interesting that this relationship has complete role reversal based on most gender stereotypes. I think this relationship does a good job of showing that getting together isn't really the hard part. The hard part comes after

Book and Jayne - I see this as a good fraternal relationship. There really isn't much male bonding on the show so I think its good for the character dynamic. Its also interesting to see the commonalities of two fairly diverse characters ( a mercenary and a religious man)

Then theres River, who kind of embodies the person who is alone. The point where a person just can't fit into a neat little box of societies ingrained ideal of what they should be. I think everyone can relate to that at some point in their lives.

If I looked at each characters individually, yeah I could see how some traits seem excessive or a hard sell, but when I look at the context of their chemistry to the entire crew and specific pairing, it starts to make sense why the characters are constructed as such and play out the way they do.

I don't know what Whedon's intentions were for this show, we never got to see much of it. But I do think its mostly a character study. That somestimes the only family and home you have is the one you make for yourself. I think in modern times, given certain family values, thats still a pretty interesting and salient issue.

It was a good show, I was sorry to see it leave the air. But good and fair are sometimes mutually exclusive.

Heres hoping the movie does well

FullCapacity

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Monday, January 24, 2005 4:17 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by JewelStaite:
Thanks, Ravenu.

"..smiling idiotically.." isn't exactly the thing I was going for with Kaylee. I love reading great reviews about our show, but that comment in particular didn't sit too well in my tummy.

I think, a lot of the time, people seem to forget that us actors read our reviews, and we read these posts as well. I'm glad I read yours. Thanks again... You're a peach!

Jewel




Jewel,

I was very happy about Mr Card's review as well until I got to his comment about "smiling idiotically". I am not sure what elicited that comment as I have always thought of Kaylee's smiles as reflections of her eternal optimism, innocence, and good nature.

Were I you, I would not pay it any mind. We all love you and no way could anyone have been more suited for the role of our favorite mechanic than you.

As for the rest of the review, I think it great to see a prestigious sci fi author praise the series. Hopefully this will make the rounds on the internet and convince some more people to give the DVD set a look and to purchase tickets for the BDM.

Hope the holidays treated you well Jewel. Tell Matt I said "Hi".

__________________________________________

"May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one."

Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Meet Up:
http://firefly.meetup.com/9/boards/


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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:44 AM

NWUKSTEVE


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
I was very happy about Mr Card's review as well until I got to his comment about "smiling idiotically".

Agreed, ignore him Jewel, you were great in every episode.

---
"Suppose we've chosen the wrong god. Every time we go to church we're just making him madder and madder." - Homer Simpson

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 9:56 AM

MALICIOUS


Quote:

Originally posted by JewelStaite:
...and we read these posts as well.




Have you read the threads dedicated to me then?

(Mal-Licious looks around at all the people groaning, rolling their eyes and making faces)

WHAT?!? They would make her laugh! And then she would see what "idiotic" realllly means......

Mal-licious

Co-Holder of the Red Bell from Hell

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 10:10 AM

GORRAMREAVERS


I know I love your work on Firefly Jewel

Sometimes I just cant help myself.

The Lifetime movie you were in didnt start till well after 9pm last nite. They had some horrible movie with the Spelling 90210 gal. I watched 'The Message' instead :)

"..it is my very favorite gun."

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 12:45 PM

ERICAMARSH


Jewel,
I loved how well you portrayed Kaylee. She was the first character I truly fell in love with. I'm a recent Firefly convert, but as enthusiastic as any other. Kaylee is me, or at least how I see myself, or would see myself if I lived on Serenity. I'm working on an essay right now for the next Slayage conference themed "Whedonverse" centering around the series, especially The Message, and how it reflects/enhances Serenity. Can't wait to see the movie!

Erica

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 1:58 PM

SONOFPERSEPHONE


Dear Jewel:
You are the spirit of Serenity!!! There's a reason you can fix anything that goes wrong. You are the heart. I was given the series on DVD for Christmas by my best friend. I had seen a few episodes at her house, but was not really expecting to become addicted. I have seen the entire series now, and have shared it with my dad and my brothers. WE are all huge fans now. My dad's favorite episode is "shindig", he loves the ball scene with Kaylee. And my only regret about the series is that it is over. I am an actor, and have always dreamed of being on a sci-fi show, like Star Trek, etc. but now I know that my heart belongs to Serenity and to the wonderful cast of Firefly. PLease know that you are greatly loved by all your fans, and that the "smiling idiotically" remark was just a lack of understanding on the poor man's part. I think Kaylee is probably the most complex character on the show, next to River (for obvious reasons). Kaylee's innocence and sense of hope and eternal optimism exudes such a joy and warmth that makes the ship and the show such a familiar and welcoming place. So keep your chin up and here's to many movies, and a return to TV of the series!!!! And if you need a new shipmate, perhaps a new love interest if stuffy Simon doesn't wake up, I'm ready and willing to send Joss a headshot and resume. Thank you for the life you have breathed into Kaylee, and best wishes in all that you do.

Dylan Bradshaw

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:12 PM

11THHOUR


Hi Jewel,

Just let me add my voice to the chorus...

KAYLEE ROCKS!!!

As for the reviewer's choice of words regarding Kaylee's sunny nature... well, some folks will accept a sullen or surly character more easily than a buoyant one. Maybe it's because a naturally cheerful and sweet natured person is so very rare?

Yep.

Rare... like a jewel.

Susan

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 2:48 PM

TRIBES


Jewel
I have only one thing to say about Firefly,
Kaylee is my BDH.

Have been a Aircraft Mechanic/Engineering Flight Test Quality Assurance for over 35 years so I relate strongly to your character. As much as I appreciate OSC's review of Firefly, if he will not change the error in his judgement of Kaylee, I will find him and continuously pop a knot on his melon till he does.
Kinda like that chain of command saying...anyways
Attitude adjustments are sometimes necessary for clear thinking to be established. ;-)
My wife is a firm committed believer in this procedure.
* Counting knots on head*

Peace
Serenity

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 5:25 PM

SNIPER


I agree with SPG- I love Card's books, the Enders Game Series, or most of them, but I really can't stand his politics.

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 6:07 PM

ZOID


Dear Jewel,

I am hesitant to respond, due in part to a fellow Browncoat's reasonable argument that your comment to Ravenu was a personal response. I agree that posting in response to your comments to Ravenu is uncomfortably akin to butting into the conversation at the table next to yours at a restaurant.

But I'm too old and cantankerous to stand on facile propriety, in this regard. I loved your Kaylee.

If the only aspect of Kaylee was her sunniness and sweet nature, I can see how she might have been perceived as one-dimensional, perhaps a bit banal. But -- for me -- the counterpoint for the character was her somewhat saucy sexual nature. From the time she comes on board by having her way with Bender and taking his job... To the final scene of the final episode, in which she regales virginal River with a ribald tale of her statutory rape of the neighboring farmboy... Kaylee's sweet, sunny nature is kept from being naive, waifish by the counterpoint of her unself-conscious sexuality.

That diversity cannot have been easy to pull off as an actress, as believably as you delivered it. Mr. Card undoubtedly did not see every episode in the series, to have oversimplified Kaylee the way he did.

As far as the critical reviews are concerned, I suspect that you must by now realize that working with Joss is something of a double-edged sword. The nuances he brandishes with such flair -- and in his case that is not mixed metaphor, IMO -- are neither fully understood nor appreciated by many who prefer a more formulaic approach to storytelling. But regardless what they may say, I hope you'll trust Joss, trust your own instincts in the value of your work, and trust the fans' love of Firefly.

If you do read many of our posts hereabouts, then you undoubtedly know Kaylee is one of our favorite characters. That's a credit to the actress who portrayed her. Ultimately, would you rather have the fans' love and appreciation of your work, or the positive opinions of the critics? That's a question that every artist eventually faces. How you answer it defines your career...


Respectfully,

zoid

P.S.
My wife of 18 years is named Kayley, so your Firefly character is magical for me in more than one respect. Be happy, and enjoy the wondrous ride you are on. I think someday you'll look back on your life and regard your Firefly experience as a positive and happy one. The attendant critical commentary will be inconsequential at that remove.
_________________________________________________

"Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me." The Ballad of Serenity

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Tuesday, January 25, 2005 11:32 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by ravenu:
Quote:

Originally posted by Static:
Orson Scott Card
Quote:


The actors are wonderful, though a couple of characters can be annoying, especcially at first (couldn't Jewel Staite have occasionally stopped smiling idiotically during the early episodes?).





Wow, I don't think he got Jewel's character at all -


You picked on one sentence out of a glowing revue, and it bears a characteristic so familiar that I suspect it may be taught in Professional Criticism 101. Most reviewers (@least those with less confidence than Roger Ebert) seem reticent to sound like a fanboy (reasonable, after all, newspapers can get those reviews for free). So they find a way to weave a small negative into a positive review (or vice versa). Personally, I would've picked on the oldest guy, rather than the youngest chick, but the part about "during the early episodes" minimizes the negativity toward the series as a whole.

And picking on one of the best performances on the show means the reviewer is unlikely to disappoint anyone. Had you or I found the show based on that review, we'd be feeling great about following his recommendation, 'cause we love even the part he found annoying.

Keep the Shiny Side Up

Wutzon: Steve Winwood, "Higher Love", from "Back In the High Life Again"

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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:58 AM

AEROB1033


In defense of Orson Scott Card...

I've spent a little time with the man, and I've read his novels, political commentaries, and reviews consistently for the last couple of years. And to hear people compare him to someone like Howard Stern is absolutely appalling to me.

Whether you agree with all of his political standpoints or not, Orson Scott Card is a man with strong moral values and who cares very much about his family. How can *anyone* who fits that description be compared to an amoral, nasty guy like Stern?

I'm shocked to see so much criticism of Card himself, and that's why I'm posting on a forum I've only ever lurked on before. Most people, if they dislike him, do so because of his political viewpoints... but if you're so willing to automatically judge a man's worth entirely based on whether he's liberal or conservative, then I'll chalk you off as a bigoted, judgmental person who can't see beyond his politics.

Even worse is to post smears about someone you know nothing about. Shame on you if you'd take only the scant information in this thread and extrapolate it into a complex argument against the worth of a person.

As for his review of Firefly... predictably, a lot of people here are shocked that he could have any criticism for the show or be unclear on why it was cancelled. What you don't seem to realize is that for him, as for most people, Firefly is not a religion. It's just another story. A good one, but he's seen (and written) many good stories over the years. It doesn't have the same overriding personal significance for him that it does for most people on these forums.

So when he criticizes some element of the show, he's simply pointing out something he noticed and disliked when he was watching it. And when he attributes Firefly's cancellation to a cause which was far from the most important, it's because he didn't spend hours upon hours reading about Firefly the way Browncoats do.

Be glad that he wrote an overwhelmingly positive review about the show. It'll bring in more fans, which means Serenity will sell more tickets, and we'll be one step closer to sequels.

And don't judge a man's worth based on his political viewpoints alone. Or on one criticism of one element of Firefly that you disagree with.

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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 6:18 AM

MANGAMANIAC


Hear hear, AeroB. In addition to the dozens of favorite novels OSC has given me over the years, he loves my favorite TV show of recent years. Heck, give the man a see-gar.

I, too, have sometimes disagreed with the (perfectly legitimate if occasionally misguided) opinions he states in his columns. But just as often, he's made me consider an issue in a new way, and I've had my understanding of and opinions on several issues modified by his writing. After all, isn't that the point of public debate?

So even if he's not as big a fan of Kaylee and/or Jewel as I am, I think the several somewhat vehement attacks on him I've seen in this thread are a bit of the pot calling the kettle black.

B
-----
"America has invested her religion as well as her morality in sound income-paying securities. She has adopted the unassailable position of a nation blessed because it deserves to be blessed; and her sons, whatever other theologies they may affect or disregard, subscribe unreservedly to this national creed."
- Agnes Repplier, "Times and Tendencies"

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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:33 AM

MALSMOJO


Quote:

Originally posted by AeroB1033:
to hear people compare him to someone like Howard Stern is absolutely appalling to me.

Whether you agree with all of his political standpoints or not, Orson Scott Card is a man with strong moral values and who cares very much about his family. How can *anyone* who fits that description be compared to an amoral, nasty guy like Stern?



Yes, I'm sure Stern hates his family, clubs baby seals and eats small children for lunch. Nothing beats strong upstanding folk like OSC for instilling strong moral values like criticizing people for their sexual orientation and denying them their basic human rights. Values, indeed.


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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 7:39 AM

SHINY


Quote:

Originally posted by AeroB1033:
How can *anyone* who fits that description be compared to an amoral, nasty guy like Stern?



Quote:

Originally posted by MalsMojo:
Yes, I'm sure Stern hates his family, clubs baby seals and eats small children for lunch. Nothing beats strong upstanding folk like OSC for instilling strong moral values like criticizing people for their sexual orientation and denying them their basic human rights.



Okay, apparently quoting simon didn't work, so let's try channelling our friendly neighborhood pilot this time:

WASH: OKAY!!! Everyone NOT talking about politics, in here, everone else ELSEWHERE:

http://fireflyfans.net/thread.asp?b=18&t=8644

Jayne, your mouth is talkin. Might want to look into that.

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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 8:47 AM

GORRAMREAVERS


Quote:


WASH: OKAY!!! Everyone NOT talking about politics, in here, everone else ELSEWHERE:




LOL...I really chuckled at that. Your the best shiny!

"..it is my very favorite gun."

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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 9:44 AM

AEROB1033


Perhaps I was unclear. It's not Stern's politics that I'm criticizing... it's the way he treats people. I can't imagine a man who almost never shows respect for anyone but himself doing any better with his family. He treats everyone around him like dirt--that's why I call him a "nasty guy".

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Wednesday, January 26, 2005 12:33 PM

MENELUIN


True, but people that might be rude/obnoxious like Stern sometimes pave the way for other shows like FF to be able to get away with saying or showing certain things (remember the Zoe and Wash scene? Here lies my beloved Zoe?)

;)

Quote:

Originally posted by AeroB1033:
Perhaps I was unclear. It's not Stern's politics that I'm criticizing... it's the way he treats people. I can't imagine a man who almost never shows respect for anyone but himself doing any better with his family. He treats everyone around him like dirt--that's why I call him a "nasty guy".



~~~~~~~~
http://www.thepaperbackwriter.com
AIM: KingArthursPiano
E-mail/MSN: sgtpprsgrl@hotmail.com

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Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:00 PM

PERSTEPH


Hey Jewel:

First, I'm a HUGE fan of FF (can't wait for the movie - have scheduled vacation for the opening weekend and plan to lead my growing FF fan base to every show that weekend!). Second, loved your work on the show. I agree with the comment about the reviewer "not getting" your character. Kaylee was the necessary light in a dark place. Excellent contrast.

That all said, you are an actor and bad reviews (or off handed comments) come with the territory. You can't please everyone nor should you try. You were given a character, a script and made character choices. By my reckoning, your choices were all good and performances excellent. You shouldn't let one minor remark in a sea of glowing reviews upset your tummy. I say this with the distinct feeling that it will anyway!

See youse on the big damn screen!


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Friday, January 28, 2005 9:42 AM

JBLUE


Quote:

Originally posted by JewelStaite:
Thanks, Ravenu.

"..smiling idiotically.." isn't exactly the thing I was going for with Kaylee. I love reading great reviews about our show, but that comment in particular didn't sit too well in my tummy.

I think, a lot of the time, people seem to forget that us actors read our reviews, and we read these posts as well. I'm glad I read yours. Thanks again... You're a peach!

Jewel



Jewel,
I hope this comment reaches you and the rest of the cast and crew.
I watched the show each week and have watched the entire series on DVD several times and it still stuns me how very well everyone performs. The acting is STELLAR. There are so many subtle little things that really make each character wonderful. To me, this was the all time greatest series and story ever produced. Clearly I was not alone.
I really want the cast and crew and Joss to know that they touched a great many people.
You are all amazing talents and I wish you the very best and all the happiness in Kaylee's heart.





Jeff Bridges

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Friday, January 28, 2005 1:42 PM

ROCKSTER66


Quote:

Originally posted by JewelStaite:
Thanks, Ravenu.

"..smiling idiotically.." isn't exactly the thing I was going for with Kaylee. I love reading great reviews about our show, but that comment in particular didn't sit too well in my tummy.

I think, a lot of the time, people seem to forget that us actors read our reviews, and we read these posts as well. I'm glad I read yours. Thanks again... You're a peach!

Jewel


-----------------------------------------------

Jewel, this certainly isn't the first time I have disagreed with Card. Although I liked the generally positive tone of his review, I thought the comment about Kaylee was misplaced. I noticed the grin too, but I think it's perfectly natural that Kaylee is ecstatic about the ship and being aboard, with a continual opportunity to deal with all that technology. There's some similarity with my own love of automobile tech here in "Earth That Was." As a child, I found I could almost instinctively deal with mechanical repair and playing piano and I think Kaylee is that way with ships' drives and communications tech. Now I'm 67 and still tinkering with old English cars and rock music: http://www.rocky-frisco.com

Personally, I love the way you portray Kaylee. The show would not be as good without you.



-Rocky Frisco (rockster66)



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Tuesday, February 1, 2005 4:41 PM

ELWOODMOM


Hi, Jewel.

Would you like me to beat-up that fella, or give him a time-out?? (It would be more fun to beat him up, though!)


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Thursday, February 3, 2005 12:02 AM

SASJA


Quote:

Originally posted by JewelStaite:
Thanks, Ravenu.

"..smiling idiotically.." isn't exactly the thing I was going for with Kaylee. I love reading great reviews about our show, but that comment in particular didn't sit too well in my tummy.

I think, a lot of the time, people seem to forget that us actors read our reviews, and we read these posts as well. I'm glad I read yours. Thanks again... You're a peach!

Jewel



You can't please everyone - don't ever try

As I hope you know Kaylee is picked in polls as most people's favorite character all the time. Card's loss if he can't relate to a warm and kind person.

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Thursday, February 3, 2005 7:53 AM

VLAD


Dear Ms. Staite,

I thought the review overall to be a good one and the fact that Mr. Card encouraged folks to go see the movie, irregardless of what the "popular" reviews might be and also urged them to purchase the DVDs, made up for the fact he didn't recognize what a terrific job you did playing Kaylee. Folk will make up their own minds about you and the character you portray so well.

I have been a member here for a long time but this is my first post. Like everyone here, I loved Firefly and I watched it faithfully every Friday night. Thing is, it was YOU that hooked me. I loved Kaylee, her ways and her mannerisms and that "idiotic" smile, as Mr. Card put it. 'Cept, it wasn't idiotic..it was radiant and represented the inner-light she had; her soul.

I run a semi-popular website called the Soulful Spike Society ( www.soulfulspike.com), which is obviously named for one of Joss Whedon's other popular characters but has since broadened into several other programs, including Firefly. Thing is, while I am a Buffy fan, it was Firefly and you that led to the entire site and message board creation. (It's a long complicated story, but I often get a kick thinking how it's a Browncoat that ended up heading what started as a BtVS site.) And there are many, MANY folks there that love you (including our Firefly reviewer Sara that named her puppy after your beloved Kaylee..a great honor!), from the way you play your character, to the way you respond to the fans and how you jsut seem to enjoy being a part of it all. This I know for a fact and I hope that those hundreds of people I know personally can more than make up for a passing reviewer that, overall, still enjoyed your work. If you will notice, Mr. Card goes on and states "at first." I imagine your delightful, radiant performance even warmed his heart.

Thank you for stopping by and for being the kind of actor that takes time to appreciate her fans as much as they appreciate you.

Mitchel "Vlad" Mote

[center]** *** ** *** ** *** **[/center]

Sure, it would be humiliating. Having to lie there while the better man refuses to spill your blood. Mercy is the mark of a great man.
*stab* Guess I’m just a good man.
*stab* Well, I’m alright.

~ Captain Malcolm Reynolds, “Shindig”

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