CINEMA

Discussion of Wind River

POSTED BY: JEWELSTAITEFAN
UPDATED: Friday, December 8, 2017 12:04
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 528
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Friday, November 17, 2017 8:31 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I'd like to keep this separate from the other thread, which I intended to be review.

Here I'd like to focus on the cinematic storytelling the conversations, glances, silences, sporadic interactions, the way the story was told.

It might be spoilery, but this thread is expected to be for those who've seen Wind River.

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 2:33 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Brought over from the Wind River thread:

Quote:

I'm thinking that you, SGG, are a city guy, or nearly so. So I'll ask: are you aware of the more reserved nature, maybe taciturn mode of these rural guys? All of them snickering at the Feeb, her desk ways, the FBI Bureaucratic methods, the lack of "Street sense" and her dogged determination to waste her efforts, instead of using their expertise to solve things? F&WS guy wants to help her, but he's not going to spoon-feed her, and she ignores his offers to help get her focused and straightened out.
If you have a chance to watch it again, see if you can tell the silent tug of war between their levels of conversation, action, authority, and acumen. He wants to help the fish out of water, but she's stubborn. This layering of interaction and exchange was really done well. Amazing. Reminds me of Fargo, as well.

I was thinking Olsen was Lead Actress.

Did the scoring feel familiar?



Yes, I am a city guy, but I do get that "attitude" from certain folk who think because they make a little more than you that they know it all. Yes, we even get that in the city. But, to answer your question, I picked up on that right off. The screenwriter did a fantastic job of delivering on those subtle glances, looks and reactions throughout this film. It's not only from the Cops/Sheriffs v. Feds dynamic, but from the Cityslickers v. Countryboys.

If you didn't pick up on it, the sheriff (Ben - Graham Greene) even said as she pulled up to the house at the beginning "Here he is," expecting to see a male agent.
Subtle also was the "barb" they gave her regarding her winter attire. Fish-out-of-water? You bet.

Before I go further, I took an educated guess that Renner was lead for a couple of reasons: one, they started with him (after the set up of the girl running through the snow; brilliantly done BTW. It both set up the mystery and set the tone of the movie). Then comes "Cory" (Renner) and his set-up was: not a cop, but a local official with roots in the community and we are told (within the story mind you) that he's an excellent tracker - Fish, Game & Wildlife. He's definitely the country boy, but he's nobody's fool. We find out that he's patient (you almost have to be, to be a good tracker) because he takes his time in teaching his son; there's tension between him and the boy's mother; but he's a stand-up guy because he encourages his ex to find work where she can, and that he will pay child support. The tension is not typical lover's spat or mistreatment by either side...so what gives? I'm thinking what's the reason for them not being together; you know he loves his son. And that "looks like I'm in trouble" that "Cory" says as he walks in to pick up his son.

What does that tell us, the audience? This guy is a straight shooter (literally) a good father, a patient guy, strong-willed, a survivor. All this but we get more, little clues as to the type of guy "Cory" is. He later shows that patience with "Jane" and even proceeds to teach her about tracking. The more I write, the more I'm realizing that this was a helluva script.

I gotta stop for a while, my hands/fingers are getting tired.


SGG

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 2:36 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I was largely struck by the interplay of verbal and nonverbal conversation.
F&WS guy is frustrated that when FBI babe is given info, she doesn't pay attention. The LEOs on the Res are not verbose, and I was impressed with the restraint exhibited by the scriptwriters.

I am not sure one can fully absorb the nonverbal conversation on something like a laptop screen.

I heard about some advice from one action actor to another, possibly Ahnold to Chuck Norris. Something like: Talk less. Movies are for the audience to see, not hear.

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 2:50 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Brought over from the Wind River thread:
Quote:

I'm thinking that you, SGG, are a city guy, or nearly so. So I'll ask: are you aware of the more reserved nature, maybe taciturn mode of these rural guys? All of them snickering at the Feeb, her desk ways, the FBI Bureaucratic methods, the lack of "Street sense" and her dogged determination to waste her efforts, instead of using their expertise to solve things? F&WS guy wants to help her, but he's not going to spoon-feed her, and she ignores his offers to help get her focused and straightened out.
If you have a chance to watch it again, see if you can tell the silent tug of war between their levels of conversation, action, authority, and acumen. He wants to help the fish out of water, but she's stubborn. This layering of interaction and exchange was really done well. Amazing. Reminds me of Fargo, as well.

I was thinking Olsen was Lead Actress.

Did the scoring feel familiar?

Yes, I am a city guy, but I do get that "attitude" from certain folk who think because they make a little more than you that they know it all. Yes, we even get that in the city. But, to answer your question, I picked up on that right off. The screenwriter did a fantastic job of delivering on those subtle glances, looks and reactions throughout this film. It's not only from the Cops/Sheriffs v. Feds dynamic, but from the Cityslickers v. Countryboys.

If you didn't pick up on it, the sheriff (Ben - Graham Greene) even said as she pulled up to the house at the beginning "Here he is," expecting to see a male agent.
Subtle also was the "barb" they gave her regarding her winter attire. Fish-out-of-water? You bet.

Before I go further, I took an educated guess that Renner was lead for a couple of reasons: one, they started with him (after the set up of the girl running through the snow; brilliantly done BTW. It both set up the mystery and set the tone of the movie). Then comes "Cory" (Renner) and his set-up was: not a cop, but a local official with roots in the community and we are told (within the story mind you) that he's an excellent tracker - Fish, Game & Wildlife. He's definitely the country boy, but he's nobody's fool. We find out that he's patient (you almost have to be, to be a good tracker) because he takes his time in teaching his son; there's tension between him and the boy's mother; but he's a stand-up guy because he encourages his ex to find work where she can, and that he will pay child support. The tension is not typical lover's spat or mistreatment by either side...so what gives? I'm thinking what's the reason for them not being together; you know he loves his son. And that "looks like I'm in trouble" that "Cory" says as he walks in to pick up his son.

What does that tell us, the audience? This guy is a straight shooter (literally) a good father, a patient guy, strong-willed, a survivor. All this but we get more, little clues as to the type of guy "Cory" is. He later shows that patience with "Jane" and even proceeds to teach her about tracking. The more I write, the more I'm realizing that this was a helluva script.

I gotta stop for a while, my hands/fingers are getting tired.

SGG

I am glad that you picked up on those items. Really glad.
I hope that all viewers can pick up on that, if they are in a relaxed setting, but I'm not sure that all can.

How do you think the pacing, cadence, editing and transition compare to Arrival, Fargo? This will never be confused with a Tarentino film.

I saw Wind River in cinema before Bladerunner 2049 came out. Do you think that fact helped me enjoy BR more?

I felt Olsen was the Lead Actress and Renner was Lead Actor. I looked at it like this: the setting and the snow and the fresh tracks led up to the girl running. The girl scene eventually led to F&WS discovery, maybe after F&WS and Sheriff get set up. Once the girl, F&WS, and Sheriff provide foundation, the Star shows up: FBI. However, my view may be biased, because I look for films starring Elizabeth Olsen.

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 2:58 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, I liked how subtle the screenwriter quietly introduced the characters, their prejudices (both the country folk, the Fed, the local cops, the Native Americans, even the young and old Natives...and the women. I agree that there were a lot of glances, looks and behaviors that punctuated the dialogue.

I don't think that "Cory" was frustrated with "Jane," on the contrary, he was very patience throughout the film. Remember how "Cory" talked to his son both about the BB gun, and then the horse, very patient; then to "Martin" (the father of the dead girl). That man was never rattled. He was steady and determined. She (Jane) was kind of reckless and insistent, but she knew she was in over her head. Eventually, she asked "Cory" for help. He was teaching her like he was doing with his son. This guy is a cool customer.

I too was impressed with the screenwriting. He gave you just enough to keep your interest, but not so much that you could figure it out predictably. They had restraint alright. Breadcrumbs my friend, breadcrumbs!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I was largely struck by the interplay of verbal and nonverbal conversation.
F&WS guy is frustrated that when FBI babe is given info, she doesn't pay attention. The LEOs on the Res are not verbose, and I was impressed with the restraint exhibited by the scriptwriters.

I am not sure one can fully absorb the nonverbal conversation on something like a laptop screen.

I heard about some advice from one action actor to another, possibly Ahnold to Chuck Norris. Something like: Talk less. Movies are for the audience to see, not hear.


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Saturday, November 18, 2017 3:10 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Yes, I liked how subtle the screenwriter quietly introduced the characters, their prejudices (both the country folk, the Fed, the local cops, the Native Americans, even the young and old Natives...and the women. I agree that there were a lot of glances, looks and behaviors that punctuated the dialogue.

I don't think that "Cory" was frustrated with "Jane," on the contrary, he was very patience throughout the film. Remember how "Cory" talked to his son both about the BB gun, and then the horse, very patient; then to "Martin" (the father of the dead girl). That man was never rattled. He was steady and determined. She (Jane) was kind of reckless and insistent, but she knew she was in over her head. Eventually, she asked "Cory" for help. He was teaching her like he was doing with his son. This guy is a cool customer.

I too was impressed with the screenwriting. He gave you just enough to keep your interest, but not so much that you could figure it out predictably. They had restraint alright. Breadcrumbs my friend, breadcrumbs!


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I was largely struck by the interplay of verbal and nonverbal conversation.
F&WS guy is frustrated that when FBI babe is given info, she doesn't pay attention. The LEOs on the Res are not verbose, and I was impressed with the restraint exhibited by the scriptwriters.

I am not sure one can fully absorb the nonverbal conversation on something like a laptop screen.

I heard about some advice from one action actor to another, possibly Ahnold to Chuck Norris. Something like: Talk less. Movies are for the audience to see, not hear.


IIRC, F&WS guy, after several aborted attempts, had to practically drag FBI over to observe the important evidence before it got obliterated - and her light bulb finally turned on.
Now that I think on it, maybe the fish-out-of-water background noise was masking her ability to realize that this guy was really competent, more so than she had understood. There was a lot I want to revisit when I watch again.

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 3:18 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

I am glad that you picked up on those items. Really glad.
I hope that all viewers can pick up on that, if they are in a relaxed setting, but I'm not sure that all can.

How do you think the pacing, cadence, editing and transition compare to Arrival, Fargo? This will never be confused with a Tarentino film.

I saw Wind River in cinema before Bladerunner 2049 came out. Do you think that fact helped me enjoy BR more?



I actually got to see it twice (I had one of those 48 hour rentals) and I'm glad I saw it twice....missed some dialogue, but I was able to pick up on things that I saw but pushed to the back of my mind without a second thought. Second viewing was needed and I was able to piece some things together.

Funny you should mention Arrival, I had that in the back of my mind because of the score. There was very subtle whispering in the background, which I believe was the poem that "Cory's daughter" wrote. I felt the vastness of space, the brutal unforgiving cold and the desperation of survival throughout. I loved the pacing, tone and the cadence was deliberate - not slow by any means; subdued but somewhat dangerous, wild and raw. It also reminded me of The Revenant. And no, this could never be confused with a Tarantino film. Totally different vibe. The storytelling was precise and deliberate (there goes that word again) and, to me, there wasn't a frame wasted. Every scene built on the one before and prepared us for the next one.

As far as BR is concerned, the screenplay did not flow as easily as WR and, at times, was bogged by it's own weight. but I agree, it probably helped in viewing BR. Oh and yeah, you are biased about Elizabeth Olsen. like I said, I don't blame you - she's gorgeous (I love those eyes of hers) and she's a terrific actor.


SGG

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 4:09 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

I am glad that you picked up on those items. Really glad.
I hope that all viewers can pick up on that, if they are in a relaxed setting, but I'm not sure that all can.

How do you think the pacing, cadence, editing and transition compare to Arrival, Fargo? This will never be confused with a Tarentino film.

I saw Wind River in cinema before Bladerunner 2049 came out. Do you think that fact helped me enjoy BR more?

I actually got to see it twice (I had one of those 48 hour rentals) and I'm glad I saw it twice....missed some dialogue, but I was able to pick up on things that I saw but pushed to the back of my mind without a second thought. Second viewing was needed and I was able to piece some things together.

Funny you should mention Arrival, I had that in the back of my mind because of the score. There was very subtle whispering in the background, which I believe was the poem that "Cory's daughter" wrote. I felt the vastness of space, the brutal unforgiving cold and the desperation of survival throughout. I loved the pacing, tone and the cadence was deliberate - not slow by any means; subdued but somewhat dangerous, wild and raw. It also reminded me of The Revenant. And no, this could never be confused with a Tarantino film. Totally different vibe. The storytelling was precise and deliberate (there goes that word again) and, to me, there wasn't a frame wasted. Every scene built on the one before and prepared us for the next one.

As far as BR is concerned, the screenplay did not flow as easily as WR and, at times, was bogged by it's own weight. but I agree, it probably helped in viewing BR. Oh and yeah, you are biased about Elizabeth Olsen. like I said, I don't blame you - she's gorgeous (I love those eyes of hers) and she's a terrific actor.

SGG

From the score, I kept thinking Greg Edmondson.

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Saturday, November 18, 2017 4:15 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


OK, the scene I don't know.
After he finds the critters, wolves or coyotes. Then he sees something on the next slope, maybe needs his binocs to look.

What was it? What did it mean? It seems whatever it was, was crucial.

Got a clue?

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Monday, November 20, 2017 4:57 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


From what I remember, I believe it was the trail of the snowmobiles. I need to see it again to be sure, but that's what I remember.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, the scene I don't know.
After he finds the critters, wolves or coyotes. Then he sees something on the next slope, maybe needs his binocs to look.

What was it? What did it mean? It seems whatever it was, was crucial.

Got a clue?


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Monday, November 20, 2017 1:06 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I'm glad you saw it on 42" screen. Remember the scene where FBI, goes with the Sheriffs to visit the Energy guys? That scene was one key reason I recommended seeing on a large screen, and sitting where you can view the full width of the shot.

A most memorable dialogue for me was his description of how far she or anybody can run in the snow.

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Monday, November 20, 2017 1:38 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
From what I remember, I believe it was the trail of the snowmobiles. I need to see it again to be sure, but that's what I remember.

SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, the scene I don't know.
After he finds the critters, wolves or coyotes. Then he sees something on the next slope, maybe needs his binocs to look.

What was it? What did it mean? It seems whatever it was, was crucial.

Got a clue?


There was some big green boxy thing he saw, among the hillside trees. Or was it a mountain slope?

I also think some of the stuff about his daughter I didn't catch clearly.

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Thursday, November 23, 2017 3:20 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


I totally agree about the dialogue and tone of this film, so subtle, but poignant and full of meaning without being preachy.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
I'm glad you saw it on 42" screen. Remember the scene where FBI, goes with the Sheriffs to visit the Energy guys? That scene was one key reason I recommended seeing on a large screen, and sitting where you can view the full width of the shot.

A most memorable dialogue for me was his description of how far she or anybody can run in the snow.


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Thursday, November 23, 2017 3:24 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


This film spoke to loss, revenge, grieving and true frontier justice. It was a modern "cowboy" story and subtly addressed right and wrong, what people will go through to survive - but too, about race and how we tend to overrate it. In this world, the film seems to say, there are good people and bad people....as Yoda would say......"color matters not."


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
From what I remember, I believe it was the trail of the snowmobiles. I need to see it again to be sure, but that's what I remember.

SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, the scene I don't know.
After he finds the critters, wolves or coyotes. Then he sees something on the next slope, maybe needs his binocs to look.

What was it? What did it mean? It seems whatever it was, was crucial.

Got a clue?


There was some big green boxy thing he saw, among the hillside trees. Or was it a mountain slope?

I also think some of the stuff about his daughter I didn't catch clearly.


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Saturday, November 25, 2017 1:03 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
From what I remember, I believe it was the trail of the snowmobiles. I need to see it again to be sure, but that's what I remember.

SGG

Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
OK, the scene I don't know.
After he finds the critters, wolves or coyotes. Then he sees something on the next slope, maybe needs his binocs to look.

What was it? What did it mean? It seems whatever it was, was crucial.

Got a clue?


There was some big green boxy thing he saw, among the hillside trees. Or was it a mountain slope?

I also think some of the stuff about his daughter I didn't catch clearly.

I was wrong. It was the snowmobile tracks from Matt's body back to his trailer, and then the LEOs approaching the trailer.

I had forgotten how brutal the rape scene was.

I do recall thinking about one thing that went left unsaid. After Pete confesses to the rape and murder, Cory does not clue him in that the girl he raped was his daughter's best friend. Cory is not as verbose, but I suspect Clint or Ahnold or Stallone would have mentioned it.

Regarding the sound: I had noticed in cinema, but forgot until I st checking some scenes: sound in the cold outdoors was rendered faithfully. Sound has a crisp, sharp diffusion and echo and that was accurately presented, which is a rarity from Hollywood. Either it was really shot and sounded in the cold, or there was some amazing sound stage magic.

There was more whining about the cold thN I recall. They were only saying it was around Zero degrees. My favorite temp range is between 10 above and 10 below.

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Saturday, November 25, 2017 1:37 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Brought over from the Wind River thread:
Quote:

I'm thinking that you, SGG, are a city guy, or nearly so. So I'll ask: are you aware of the more reserved nature, maybe taciturn mode of these rural guys? All of them snickering at the Feeb, her desk ways, the FBI Bureaucratic methods, the lack of "Street sense" and her dogged determination to waste her efforts, instead of using their expertise to solve things? F&WS guy wants to help her, but he's not going to spoon-feed her, and she ignores his offers to help get her focused and straightened out.
If you have a chance to watch it again, see if you can tell the silent tug of war between their levels of conversation, action, authority, and acumen. He wants to help the fish out of water, but she's stubborn. This layering of interaction and exchange was really done well. Amazing. Reminds me of Fargo, as well.

I was thinking Olsen was Lead Actress.

Did the scoring feel familiar?

Yes, I am a city guy, but I do get that "attitude" from certain folk who think because they make a little more than you that they know it all. Yes, we even get that in the city. But, to answer your question, I picked up on that right off. The screenwriter did a fantastic job of delivering on those subtle glances, looks and reactions throughout this film. It's not only from the Cops/Sheriffs v. Feds dynamic, but from the Cityslickers v. Countryboys.

If you didn't pick up on it, the sheriff (Ben - Graham Greene) even said as she pulled up to the house at the beginning "Here he is," expecting to see a male agent.
Subtle also was the "barb" they gave her regarding her winter attire. Fish-out-of-water? You bet.

Before I go further, I took an educated guess that Renner was lead for a couple of reasons: one, they started with him (after the set up of the girl running through the snow; brilliantly done BTW. It both set up the mystery and set the tone of the movie). Then comes "Cory" (Renner) and his set-up was: not a cop, but a local official with roots in the community and we are told (within the story mind you) that he's an excellent tracker - Fish, Game & Wildlife. He's definitely the country boy, but he's nobody's fool. We find out that he's patient (you almost have to be, to be a good tracker) because he takes his time in teaching his son; there's tension between him and the boy's mother; but he's a stand-up guy because he encourages his ex to find work where she can, and that he will pay child support. The tension is not typical lover's spat or mistreatment by either side...so what gives? I'm thinking what's the reason for them not being together; you know he loves his son. And that "looks like I'm in trouble" that "Cory" says as he walks in to pick up his son.

What does that tell us, the audience? This guy is a straight shooter (literally) a good father, a patient guy, strong-willed, a survivor. All this but we get more, little clues as to the type of guy "Cory" is. He later shows that patience with "Jane" and even proceeds to teach her about tracking. The more I write, the more I'm realizing that this was a helluva script.

I gotta stop for a while, my hands/fingers are getting tired.

SGG

I forgot to reply before. I had thought the reason Cory was not with his wife was due to the rift from what happened to their daughter.

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Saturday, November 25, 2017 2:36 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Quote:

I forgot to reply before. I had thought the reason Cory was not with his wife was due to the rift from what happened to their daughter.


Yes, but we don't know this until much later in the film. At the very beginning "we" get to know him, he's a father, he's not with his wife, but they are NOT arguing per se, they seem to get along and he even offers advice and support for his ex. So, in my mind, I'm thinking "there's something else here;" so I figured it would come later in the story.

I knew, once Cory discovered the body that he knew who this girl was. He's a local, it makes sense, but then we discover that it's much deeper than that. Like I said, a well-written script and probably worth an Oscar nod. It is subtle but key to the overall treatment of the story and the interaction between characters. Remember when he goes to the house of the girl's parents, he meets the father, Martin, at the door. Remember also how Martin treated Jane as she came to investigate and question the parents. Her people skills are lacking and she practically accuses the parents of not caring about their daughter. She sees the mother cutting herself in the bedroom, and she completely changes her tone.

This is what I mean about the writing in this film. So subtle, yet so damn good.
Now, back to Cory at the door with the father: One look and he starts crying and hugs his friend; the sheriff closes the door and stands in front of it, as those guarding a secret, ad Jane doesn't dare take a step outside. Inside you can hear the man sobbing. She gains respect for the family and Cory's influence and character all in one scene. And so do we. Fucking brilliant writing. My hat's off to Taylor Sheridan. The murder mystery and cinematography are but a backdrop to the interpersonal relationships that developed in front of our eyes. Fuck I'm jealous, but so admire Sheridan for his dead on writing ability. We get character development and story advancement all in one fell swoop and we're at the very beginning of the movie.

The more I write about it, the more I get the feeling that Oscar will, hopefully, recognize this film's brilliance....at least in the writing category. My vote would go toward Sheridan for screenplay. I learned a lot in presenting this review and in dissecting this screenplay.

Oh,, I almost forgot: I didn't realize, until my second viewing, that the two girls were friends. Then it made a lot more sense, not only the friendship between Cory and Martin, but the trust Martin had in Cory to the point that he fell into his arms and openly wept during that scene at the dead girl's parents house.


SGG

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Saturday, November 25, 2017 5:30 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I was also struck by the heroism of Matt in the rape scene. The Knight in Shining Armor.

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Saturday, November 25, 2017 5:38 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

I forgot to reply before. I had thought the reason Cory was not with his wife was due to the rift from what happened to their daughter.

Yes, but we don't know this until much later in the film. At the very beginning "we" get to know him, he's a father, he's not with his wife, but they are NOT arguing per se, they seem to get along and he even offers advice and support for his ex. So, in my mind, I'm thinking "there's something else here;" so I figured it would come later in the story.

I knew, once Cory discovered the body that he knew who this girl was. He's a local, it makes sense, but then we discover that it's much deeper than that. Like I said, a well-written script and probably worth an Oscar nod. It is subtle but key to the overall treatment of the story and the interaction between characters. Remember when he goes to the house of the girl's parents, he meets the father, Martin, at the door. Remember also how Martin treated Jane as she came to investigate and question the parents. Her people skills are lacking and she practically accuses the parents of not caring about their daughter. She sees the mother cutting herself in the bedroom, and she completely changes her tone.

This is what I mean about the writing in this film. So subtle, yet so damn good.
Now, back to Cory at the door with the father: One look and he starts crying and hugs his friend; the sheriff closes the door and stands in front of it, as those guarding a secret, ad Jane doesn't dare take a step outside. Inside you can hear the man sobbing. She gains respect for the family and Cory's influence and character all in one scene. And so do we. Fucking brilliant writing. My hat's off to Taylor Sheridan. The murder mystery and cinematography are but a backdrop to the interpersonal relationships that developed in front of our eyes. Fuck I'm jealous, but so admire Sheridan for his dead on writing ability. We get character development and story advancement all in one fell swoop and we're at the very beginning of the movie.

The more I write about it, the more I get the feeling that Oscar will, hopefully, recognize this film's brilliance....at least in the writing category. My vote would go toward Sheridan for screenplay. I learned a lot in presenting this review and in dissecting this screenplay.

Oh,, I almost forgot: I didn't realize, until my second viewing, that the two girls were friends. Then it made a lot more sense, not only the friendship between Cory and Martin, but the trust Martin had in Cory to the point that he fell into his arms and openly wept during that scene at the dead girl's parents house.

SGG

They were two the same. Both fathers who had lost their daughters, failed to protect them until marriage.
And not a word spoken.
I thought Jane realizes there that she should be listening more, to both Cory and Sheriff.

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Sunday, November 26, 2017 3:36 AM

SHINYGOODGUY


Yes, I agree. Jane began to trust Cory more after that.


SGG


Quote:

Originally posted by JEWELSTAITEFAN:
Quote:

Originally posted by SHINYGOODGUY:
Quote:

I forgot to reply before. I had thought the reason Cory was not with his wife was due to the rift from what happened to their daughter.

Yes, but we don't know this until much later in the film. At the very beginning "we" get to know him, he's a father, he's not with his wife, but they are NOT arguing per se, they seem to get along and he even offers advice and support for his ex. So, in my mind, I'm thinking "there's something else here;" so I figured it would come later in the story.

I knew, once Cory discovered the body that he knew who this girl was. He's a local, it makes sense, but then we discover that it's much deeper than that. Like I said, a well-written script and probably worth an Oscar nod. It is subtle but key to the overall treatment of the story and the interaction between characters. Remember when he goes to the house of the girl's parents, he meets the father, Martin, at the door. Remember also how Martin treated Jane as she came to investigate and question the parents. Her people skills are lacking and she practically accuses the parents of not caring about their daughter. She sees the mother cutting herself in the bedroom, and she completely changes her tone.

This is what I mean about the writing in this film. So subtle, yet so damn good.
Now, back to Cory at the door with the father: One look and he starts crying and hugs his friend; the sheriff closes the door and stands in front of it, as those guarding a secret, ad Jane doesn't dare take a step outside. Inside you can hear the man sobbing. She gains respect for the family and Cory's influence and character all in one scene. And so do we. Fucking brilliant writing. My hat's off to Taylor Sheridan. The murder mystery and cinematography are but a backdrop to the interpersonal relationships that developed in front of our eyes. Fuck I'm jealous, but so admire Sheridan for his dead on writing ability. We get character development and story advancement all in one fell swoop and we're at the very beginning of the movie.

The more I write about it, the more I get the feeling that Oscar will, hopefully, recognize this film's brilliance....at least in the writing category. My vote would go toward Sheridan for screenplay. I learned a lot in presenting this review and in dissecting this screenplay.

Oh,, I almost forgot: I didn't realize, until my second viewing, that the two girls were friends. Then it made a lot more sense, not only the friendship between Cory and Martin, but the trust Martin had in Cory to the point that he fell into his arms and openly wept during that scene at the dead girl's parents house.

SGG

They were two the same. Both fathers who had lost their daughters, failed to protect them until marriage.
And not a word spoken.
I thought Jane realizes there that she should be listening more, to both Cory and Sheriff.


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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 4:41 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Those goons give me the creeps, I don't get them. The first time they seemed irrational enough, but watching again they are just evil.
Curtis is asked, nicely and repeatedly, to remove Pete from Matt's quarters and effectively cease his harassment of the girlfriend. After absolute disregard by Curtis and everybody else, Matt throwns Pete out and closes the sliding door.
Sure, they are drunk, but how does that get fun?
Then they beat up Matt? When he's out, they start raping the girl, with Matt still there? WTF?
None of them stops the event, and seem to line up for turns. When Matt comes to and starts giving Pete the beat down he richly deserves, what do they do? They gang up to kill Matt? I just don't get these clowns.
And then they're setting up FBI girl and the Sheriffs, flanking them, drawing on them, directing Pete to shoot the Agent, so they can all kill the entire group.

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Tuesday, November 28, 2017 5:10 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Wow. I did not realize Jane is borrowing the clothes of Cory's dead daughter, the best friend of the newly dead girl. The info was presented, but I did not put it together until this second viewing.

In my first post about the film I indicated there was not too much presented that couldn't be absorbed in one viewing. I was really wrong on that point.

I found it endearing each time, when Jane self-depricates with "I'm not much help, but I'm all you've got" to Sheriff Ben. She's at least game.

I feel the need to state the names of these 2 fictional girls, so memories of them could be cherished.
Cory's Emily Lambert and Martin's Natalie Hanson.

Maybe the best LOL line: Ben's "This thing is solving itself"

I can tell that I was a lot more alert when I saw this in cinema.

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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 12:46 AM

MOOSE



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Wednesday, November 29, 2017 5:04 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Moose:



have you seen it Moose?

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Friday, December 1, 2017 3:56 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I will now offer some spoon feeding. I fully understand that some of you will have no need or use of it.

When Cory finally gets Jane to get interested in the snowmobile tracks, and she goes with him, at some point he stops and says they must walk instead. She asks why, he says because the trees are too thick and something else, like it's too high up.
But they are following the one-way track of another snowmobile, which didn't seem to stop. Is this BS from Cory? Is she dumb to trust this answer? Is this snow/mountain version of getting "stuck in the mud" he is trying? Is this a hole in the plot?
Now maybe the story is that there are 2 riders on his sled, so maybe it cannot labor effectively in these conditions. And he says he knows this land, so perhaps he should get the benefit of a doubt. Or maybe he is concerned about an ambush along these 2 day old tracks.

But the first couple times I saw this scene I thought Wait A Sec! What's this BS?

They find the body, and stop following the one-way track to see where it goes. At this point you can realize that this body was on the other Snowmobile, and weighing more than Jane, and also dead weight sticking out a yard on each side of the sled, so that possible interpretation is rendered moot or invalid.

The next morning he is tracking the lion family miles away, and runs across the one-way snowmobile track again.
IIRC, this track shows one ski and half or less of the "track" or drive belt, and then when the track catches a full width of snow, at avdrift peak, the sledvdid not go airborne with velocity, but the track sunk into the snow relative to the skis, indicating the throttle was tweaked, the track was spun, from loss of adequate traction.
This half of a track view may have intended to bolster the contention that Cory was right to be more cautious with Jane aboard.
This is an interesting presentation of snowmobile track.
If we assume this is the track as originally laid, then the driver was pretty competent, or maybe reckless. The orientation of the track and the ski was level. Normally when driving with half the sled hanging over mid-air on the side of a mountain, only one ski and half the track in contact, you would try to tilt the sled, leaning into the mountain or upslope, like putting all the weight balanced on one ski. This would produce a depression that was heavily slanted, tilted, not flat level.
So driving a snowmobile on a sloped mountainside, riding on one ski and half or less of track, going uphill and keeping the sled level side-to-side, that is fair competent. And during this stretch, if he would have tweaked the throttle then the track would have spun and slid out from under him, initiating a side rollover in treacherous terrain. This includes letting the speed drop too far such that more throttle would be needed, causing the spin out. So, essentially, this half-track section happened while powered, yet coasting down in speed.
And then at the drift peak, the sled changes direction, so it needed to be practically stopped there. All of this a careful ballet of momentum, inertia, balance,traction, according to the evidence displayed.
I didn't know how well some would recognize such a subtle presentation.

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Friday, December 8, 2017 12:04 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Something that reminded me of Mal.

After the introductory scene of one character (Natalie), next we see a gun on a rampage, the gun shooting furry critters. Then we learn that the gun is not shooting itself, lacking Gun Control. The gun is being used by a person to shoot and hit what is targeted - that is proper Gun Control. The gun is hitting accurately enough to avoid unneeded misery, and mercifully ending lives instantaneously - that is proper Control of Gun.
This is revealed as Cory doing the shooting, Controlling the Gun.
In a later scene, FBI Agent Jane along with Joe (Sheriff or Tribal Police Chief?) are in a wild shootout against perps inside a trailer home, and after being attacked they call out to Cory for assistance, for he is on the opposite side of the trailer home. Cory approaches the rear door, and waits. Looks around, sees a snow shovel, grabs it. Uses the shovel to overcome the 2 escaping thugs (even before anybody else is actually hit).

Mal makes clear in Pilot Serenity that he can use a gun to headshot Dobson. In Train Job he is regretful that he must end Crow. In Ariel he uses a wrench to subdue Jayne.

Both of these guys are not above using nonlethal force, except as last resort.

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