FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

An EP in the hand...

POSTED BY: HKCAVALIER
UPDATED: Monday, December 25, 2017 15:45
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5316
PAGE 1 of 1

Saturday, December 14, 2002 11:06 AM

HKCAVALIER


As fatalistic as I could get about this whole cancelation thing, we all did see a brand new episode of our favorite show last night. So Where's all the interpretation/speculation/gushing/translation?

I'm new here, so maybe this is being covered someplace other than the episode discussion board but here I am.

So... One of nicest things about Joss is that he knows why people do what they do. A lot of folks like to make a distinction between hired assassins and serial murderers. They think that getting paid for killing somehow normalizes the killer, but it ain't so. Hitmen and serial killers tend to have the same backgrounds and share very similar profiles. O' course, Joss is all over it with his depiction of Early.

Left Field Inc: I somehow got the feeling that Early did a lot of meditating. A lot of his ramblings had the feeling of the kind of insights that surface after years of solitary reflexion.

In general I love the way Joss's characters are continually surprising. They even seem to surprise themselves a lot of the time!

Also, I love the comedy of the show. Most comedy on teevee is all about people lying and then lying more and more outragiously to cover the lies until they get in trouble in the last five minutes and have the heartwarming reconciliation (boring). But the comedy on FF comes out of people puting words to truths you weren't even expecting (I'll be in my bunk; You live on a spaceship, dear).

And finally, the most amazing thing about this show every week for me is how much happens. The comercial breaks always feel like an ambush, more happens on this show in ten minutes than in whole seasons of [venerable franchise where the characters never change, their faces just get more jowlly].

No matter where Firefly goes, there she is.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 12:26 PM

ESME


Quote:

Originally posted by HKcavalier:
As fatalistic as I could get about this whole cancelation thing, we all did see a brand new episode of our favorite show last night. So Where's all the interpretation/speculation/gushing/translation?



We do like to complain here, don't we? My last gushing thread did't get a lot of response, everyone was too busy ministering to the whining of 'I'm not gonna watch anymore' thread.
(So naturally I posted there as well...)

Early last night was a great talking, logical villain, (same name as the serial killer in Natural Born Killers)and he was amazing while he scared the bejeezus out of Kaylee.
My guess is that every female watching got a shiver in her gut, weather they'll admit it or not. (I sure did)

Quote:

One of nicest things about Joss is that he knows why people do what they do.


How true! Every character's response displayed their unique personality, deepest fears, true character (if this exists):

Kaylee: her weakness is her size. also her fears. Zoe would NEVER have acted like that. Nor Inara.
Mal: Mal's beaten when he's outpowered physically. Period.
Book: ? (Any thoughts? We know he's not really a Shepherd...)
Simon: Calm and resigned. Honorable and defiant in the face of death.
Inara: Cool-headed honesty. Deeply intuative and sympathetic.
Zoe: Warrior woman. She's stronger that most people, mentally and physically, and she knows it.
Wash: Whatever Zoe thinks.(And a little Xander-esque about it, too.)
River: Just too damn smart. River's weakness is in her delusions, revealed at the beginning. But aside from that, her guiding each crewmember was dead-on. There's nothing yet in the 'verse can stop her.

I loved this dialog dense ep. It showed off the level that these guy are writing at. OIS took it up another notch, especially with the sexual tensions between Mal/Inara, ("You can't go 2 weeks without spreading?" or something mean like that) and then terrible sexual threats of Early/Kaylee and Inara getting slapped...pretty bold stuff.

It's hard to see a show I enjoy a lot go unrewarded, punished even! But we did get about half a season, with the pilot at the end instead of the beginning.
It's just great television art. Thanks, Mutant Enemy, et al.
Go and make us some more.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 12:42 PM

RADEGUND


I was very pleased with this episode! When we got to a commercial I found myself taking a breath without realizing I'd been holding it.

Seeing the world from River's point of view was really well done. You get a little sense of what it's like to be her.

River "heard" the characters speak what they were thinking, but I wonder if Book's line could be interpreted differently if we knew the context in which, in his mind, he was thinking it. Finding out the truth about Book is definitely one of the things I'll miss when the show's done.

I did guess that River was really on Early's ship, but it was interesting to watch Joss play with us and try to make us wonder if she really could have "melded" with Serenity. It's such a classic sci-fi concept, which he then neatly sidestepped.

Simon's free to take his shirt off any time...

Radegund

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:21 PM

HARDWARE


Quote:

Originally posted by esme:

Early last night was a great talking, logical villain, (same name as the serial killer in Natural Born Killers)and he was amazing while he scared the bejeezus out of Kaylee.
My guess is that every female watching got a shiver in her gut, weather they'll admit it or not. (I sure did)



Note: Jubal Early may actually referrence a Confederate general of the American Civil
War. I think it ties in better with the whole western/civil war losers theme of Firefly.

The more I get to know people the more I like my dogs.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:28 PM

ESME


Aha...multi-layers. Interesting... http://www.jubalearly.org/

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 3:58 PM

NONOLUNA


Hello All!
I've migrated and I think I like - a lot!!!
OiS was terrific, plain and simple. I thought Richard Brooks was fantastic as Early! Enough of the 2-dimensional bad guys, eh!

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 5:41 PM

RAGNAROKGS


True, Early was quite complex to be only in one episode. Also, the episode ends with him hurtling through space. I'd be willing to bet that he makes an appearance in a later episode, since they reiterated that his chances were low for survival. If he was picked up by some other ship he would be a villian with a grudge against Serenity and her crew... doesn't sound like a half-bad character to me :).

-----
RagNaRoK *gs*
"Ich kodiere, folglich bin ich."

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 7:26 PM

RAULENDYMION


I am still wondering who sent Early, and how he got all of his info. FOr instance he knew Kalies name, and knew enough to target her. Plus he also knew enough about book to know that he had to go to his room and knock him out (But he didn't do this to Jayne or Zoe) this implies book is more dangorous than the 2 warriors on the ship!

Great ep, I think all that talk about River being "psychic" was a trick by Joss to slighly misdirect us, it seems to have more to do with hyper empathy and ability to see things in terms of math...makes me think of the Hyperion books :)

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Saturday, December 14, 2002 9:16 PM

NONOLUNA


Interesting thoughts...I heard Mal say that he had lots of oxygen and would probably last a while - then comes getting picked up and a 'return engagement'.
Early was listening to conversations from outside the ship for quite a while before he went in. Names were used, he tried to make sure the crew was in bed and then he locked them in. Although I believe Book is something more than a shepherd, I think he was using the washroom and was heading to his quarters when he was confronted.
Now, I could always be wrong about these things...

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 15, 2002 12:52 AM

HJERMSTED


Quote:


I am still wondering who sent Early, and how he got all of his info. For instance he knew Kalies name, and knew enough to target her. Plus he also knew enough about book to know that he had to go to his room and knock him out (But he didn't do this to Jayne or Zoe) this implies book is more dangorous than the 2 warriors on the ship!



If I remember correctly, Early only had photos and info on the Tams in the cockpit of his ship.

I think Early used deductive reasoning and improvisation to learn the rest he needed to know about Serenity while moving within her.

Early locked the crew in their quarters. Only Zoe, Wash, Kaylee, Jayne, and the Captain dwell in those quarters*. When he performed the lock down, he noticed one room didn't lock because the door was still open. The name on the door was 'Kaylee' (painted on with flowers and such). When Early checks the engine room, odds are any person found in there would be crew. When the person found in there is female, the likelyhood of a name match with 'Kaylee' goes up as well. So he talked to her using her name like he knew all about her which freaked Kaylee out. Only because he deduced correctly. Had Early called her 'Inara' or 'Zoe' instead, Kaylee would most likely have been less scared and less cooperative.

Early knew Simon Tam's name from the warrant and photos.

How Early knew Book "ain't a Shepherd" seems to come from neither the Alliance provided warrants nor from mere deductive reasoning. That knowledge seemed to come from somewhere else. Add that with what River saw in Book earlier before Early (sorry, couldn't resist), and suddenly I have the urge to write dozens of postcards to whoever will listen to me about keeping Firefly on the air... just so I can find out who the hell Book really is!!

Would also love to see Early again. Is it possible he can control his ship remotely with something in or on his suit?

mattro


* The rest of the people on board either are, or started out as passenger / tenants. They reside in the passenger quarters or in a shuttle. Of all these people, I've only heard Dr. Tam referred to as "one of my crew" by the Captain. Why are we still talking about this?


NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 15, 2002 6:35 AM

ESME


Quote:

Originally posted by Hjermsted:
I think Early used deductive reasoning and improvisation to learn the rest he needed to know about Serenity while moving within her.



I agree absolutely, mattro. At first I was hooked by the reference to 'readers' or psychics, thinking that both River and Early could turn out to be either...but then decided it was to be a battle of plain ol' mental tenacity. Early's reasoning power vs. River's. Although River is quite gifted mentally, is she psychic? A 'reader'?
This ep was SO well-crafted.

BTW: (serious digression here) where are all the activists who used to say 'there are no black actors allowed to do drama on tv'...remember them? apparently they're not checking in on this. Gina Torres just married Lawrence Fishbourne for Juno's sake! (he's georgous, elusive, shakespearian) Where is their fabulous press, amazing magazine covers of the two of them?
Early ...(forgot actor's name. ranting) just seals my point. Mutant Enemy/Joss'Minions created a black villain named after a Confederate general (thanks for the tip on that).



"People don't appreciate the substance of things..." Early

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Sunday, December 15, 2002 9:17 AM

CARDIE


Quote:

Originally posted by esme:

Early ...(forgot actor's name. ranting) just seals my point.



Richard Brooks, late of Law and Order and Good Vs. Evil

Cardie

NOTIFY: N   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 16, 2002 12:12 PM

QUEENTIYE


Quote:

Originally posted by esme:
BTW: (serious digression here) where are all the activists who used to say 'there are no black actors allowed to do drama on tv'...remember them? apparently they're not checking in on this. Gina Torres just married Lawrence Fishbourne for Juno's sake! (he's georgous, elusive, shakespearian) Where is their fabulous press, amazing magazine covers of the two of them?
Early ...(forgot actor's name. ranting) just seals my point. Mutant Enemy/Joss'Minions created a black villain named after a Confederate general (thanks for the tip on that).



"People don't appreciate the substance of things..." Early



Activist checking in here... I don't know what you mean about blacks not doing drama on t.v., or what Gina Torres marrying Lawrence Fishburne has to do with it. I think the issue of blacks doing drama is not that blacks don't get to do it, but that they don't get to be the stars of it, and especially, they don't get to have stories that focus on black people as drama...

An example - Gabriel's Fire was quickly cancelled quickly - it was a drama about a black family. Also, two medical dramas starring black actors quickly failed - Gideon's Crossing & City of Angels.

Now - why these shows failed, I won't say. I'm not accusing anyone of anything, because I don't feel that I have sufficient knowledge. But so far as I've understood it, this is the current issue.

I liked this ep, but I actually didn't understand Jubal at all. What was the deal with him? Was he psychotic? Just a bounty hunter? A truly beastial guy? What was that last line all about? In short, while the episode was interesting, I wasn't wowed.

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

Edited to add: Thanks for that quote - I really liked that one, and a couple of others that Jubal made... in spite of me having very little understanding of why he was making them!

QT

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 22, 2017 1:26 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


I didn't get to watch a recording of Objects In Space last week, too much real life interference. Plus, some Jedi thing. And snow.

Episode opens differently than the other eps. Kinda weird.
5 episodes ago we saw Simon regaling and reminiscing, and now he's at it again. Maybe he needs a beard and rocking chair.
And when Mal says we're all alone out here, we quickly see he's wrong.
For some reason, I noticed River's pic with a dog. But I've never heard reference to a Tam dog.

I really like the guest stars in the show. Have enjoyed Richard Brooks work before, don't recall him in space.

3 episodes ago in Safe I was irritated by Mal practically abandoning the Tams. And now I'm disappointed in Kaylee for much the same sense. And then she's fishing for compliments right after.
At this point seems to be the first time River's senses are confirmed, when Simon essentially says to Kaylee what River heard earlier.

And Wash is reminded he lives on a spaceship, dear. Missing the 4th wall?

How does Early know to play the Kaylee threat on Simon?

I like that River socked them all full of guilt.

Interesting episode, who would have expected it? Shows plenty of space to roam in for the 2nd half of the season.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Friday, December 22, 2017 9:44 PM

THGRRI


Quote:

Originally posted by esme:
Aha...multi-layers. Interesting... http://www.jubalearly.org/]

This was a good catch.

Jubal Anderson Early was a Confederate general who was born and raised in Franklin County, Virginia. Born in 1816, he practiced law before and after serving in the Army of Northern Virginia.


T

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

Monday, December 25, 2017 3:45 PM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


Something that lingers for me from OiS.
Not every episode do I recall River being happy. But by the end of OiS she seems truly happy and comfortable, in her exchange with Mal.
This leaves a resonance in my heart.

NOTIFY: Y   |  REPLY  |  REPLY WITH QUOTE  |  TOP  |  HOME  

YOUR OPTIONS

NEW POSTS TODAY

USERPOST DATE

OTHER TOPICS

DISCUSSIONS
"Mal, bad... in the Latin" what does it mean?
Sun, August 5, 2018 23:02 - 31 posts
Who Was Your Favorite Character That Died In The Verse?
Thu, July 26, 2018 06:15 - 6 posts
Have Mal's Contacts Been Discussed?
Fri, July 20, 2018 09:13 - 5 posts
Who Was Your Favorite Friend of Our BDH?
Tue, July 17, 2018 15:05 - 2 posts
What's Your Favorite Scene or Dialogue Featuring Zoe Washburne?
Tue, July 17, 2018 13:49 - 8 posts
5mmo Offer King of Avalon Resources At Affordable Price
Sun, May 20, 2018 22:18 - 1 posts
Browncoats
Sun, April 15, 2018 20:20 - 6 posts
Chronological Order of Episodes.
Sun, April 15, 2018 17:05 - 38 posts
Now That You've Seen It, Let Everyone Know What You Think!
Sun, April 15, 2018 16:39 - 50 posts
An EP in the hand...
Mon, December 25, 2017 15:45 - 16 posts
War Games (Spoilers)
Mon, December 11, 2017 11:30 - 10 posts
Map of the Verse discussion
Mon, November 20, 2017 00:08 - 169 posts

FFF.NET SOCIAL