River connected to Mal? by Gavida

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

River connected to Mal?

POSTED BY: GAVIDA
UPDATED: Sunday, August 14, 2005 19:28
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Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:13 AM

Sorry, if this has been brought up before, but I just realized something when watching "Safe" again.

Could it be that River is somehow "connected" or "empathically linked" to Mal?

This thought occured to me during the following scene:

River is dancing to the celtic music in town.
There is a shootout at Serenity's landing place and Book gets hit.

But she still dances with a happy face, enjoying it.
Only when Mal steps up to the wounded Book and sees the gunshot wound she seems to be very shocked, she stumbles and appears to be disorientated for a moment.

If she was somehow linked to all from the crew, shouldn't this have happened the moment Book was hit?
Why did it only happen after Mal realizing what happened?

To me it looks like she has some bond with Mal.

Looking forward to your ideas and responses

Gavida

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 6:34 AM

RABIT

Personally, I always assumed that it was done for the sake of the drama - it's much more dramatic to have River stop after we've seen Book is down, as we didn't know until then. Another option I thought of was that those two sequences, while apparently occuring at the same time, may have been off a little in timing. Or River's reading takes time to reach her, so she didn't feel Book's pain until a few moments later - about the time that Mal saw Book.

There's just so many ways that could be interpretted.

I do think River sees Mal as a father figure - she as much as said so in one episode. (I don't remember which, but she cryptically mentioned something about "father" that I thought was clearly a reference to Mal. Was that in Safe?) I don't, however, think she has a special connection with him.

Just my opinion, though!

Rabit

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:21 AM

STARRBABY

I think the link that they have is through Serenity. In OIS, River "becomes" Serenity and that shows her connection to the ship. Mal, obviously, has an attachment to Serenity.

If they have a paranormal connection, in my opinion, that is what causes/creates it.

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 8:36 AM

SHINY4004

I always thought that River stopped dancing cause she saw Simon getting kidnapped...but that's just me.

I do think they did it that way for dramatic purposes though.

"Oh I'm going to the special hell."-Mal

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:34 AM

GAVIDA

Just checked the scene once more.

Mal sees Book.
River stumbles with a shocked look on her face.
Simon sees it an looks worried.
*Woosh* he is "sacked"

I am not sure if Serenity is the link between the two. I mean.... River uses the comsystem to pretend she is Serenity. But I thought it was more of making fun of Jubal and teasing him.

Maybe she has a link to Mal because it was his brainpattern she picked up as the first thing when he woke her from the Cryo-Box...

Ah well, still not sure what to make of it.

Gavida

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:02 AM

ALEX21

Or, maybe the two scenes aren't happening at exactly the same time and they just had the music over the gunfight because it sounded cool.

I love you sci-fi fans, but sometimes I think you read into things a tinnnyyyy bit too far.

PIE!

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:21 AM

TRALALAH

I always thought she stopped dancing because she was sensing what was about to happen to Simon. I do think she has a special relationship with Mal. She doesn't freak him out at all.

A swhat?

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:23 AM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Might be a cop out explanation, but River senses all those things... Book getting shot, Mal's emotions as he sees Book is wounded, and the preminition that Simon is getting 'sacked', all at once. Something that was done to her brain, after Simon examined her on Ariel. He said that she can't help but feel, that she feels everything. That certain events coincided made it hard for her to read them and make sense of it all....so she stumbled.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:30 AM

STARRBABY

Quote:
Originally posted by alex21:

I love you sci-fi fans, but sometimes I think you read into things a tinnnyyyy bit too far.

I think it's more of a Joss fan thing. He's trained us to be that way.

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:30 AM

ZEEK

I always took it that she has a read on the whole crew. It's just that the shot took Book out so suddenly that there wasn't a big wave of emotion to draw her attention. Mal on the other hand is so protective of his crew that seeing Book in that situation is such an intense emotion that it even makes River scream.

Just like she does when Simon gets shot in OiS.

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:34 AM

BROWNCOATFAN1

i think she can feel when certain things happen.

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:44 AM

CEDRIC

I think she has a special link to Greg Edmondson, and she senses the music changing. :-)

"You can't take my show from me,
Because I've got the DVD."
www.BedlamBards.com
Ballad of Joss: http://mp3-postcards.com/listen/?888

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:24 PM

SHINY4004

LOL ok that was just the shiniest thing ever.

"Oh I'm going to the special hell."-Mal

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 5:21 PM

LIVINGIMPAIRED

Quote:
Originally posted by Cedric:
I think she has a special link to Greg Edmondson, and she senses the music changing. :-)

My god, it all makes sense now.

________________

"If one fights desperately, he will survive. If he tries to survive, he will die." -- Samurai Proverb

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Thursday, August 11, 2005 7:45 PM

FREMDFIRMA

I firmly believe that River is "locked on" Mal as a father/captain figure.

She seems to 'connect' with him in particular swifter and more easily, and his presence seems to draw her into a more lucid state.

Yes, it was very noticeable, and me and the girl discussed it at length, that she didn't freak when Book took a round, she freaked when Mal *sees* Book wounded.

Of course, her responses to the imminent rescue by "Daddy" were also very telling..

(Side note here, anyone else notice the crew not only got maximum drop on the hillfolk and played it for all it was worth - but that they were also all armed with shotguns ? they were NOT bluffing.)

Various other little bits convince me of her bond with Mal, like...

Her reading off the specs of his own ship to him in the infirmary.
The look on her face in OiS when she floats into Mal's arms.
Her comments in response to Mal busting chops for her handling a gun, and maybe scaring the cattle.

There's a lot of stuff you wouldn't necessarily pick up on unless you were lookin for it - but it's assuredly there, and utterly convinces me that she's locked to him as captain/father figure.

-F

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Friday, August 12, 2005 5:38 AM

MIKEYBLAZE

Maybe assuming River IS psychic Mal is just easier to read than the other. He doesn't seem to have many secrets from the crew, as opposed to oh say Book! People guess that kind of personality is just easier to read. >shrugs< what do I know though?

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Friday, August 12, 2005 6:16 AM

ZEEK

I don't think there is anything special about Mal to River. She senses emtion "she can't not". It was told to us in Ariel. Did Book seem emotional to you when he said "that's quite a lot of blood"? He seems to me like he's been shot plenty of times before and doesn't get worked up over it. Mal on the other hand has a strong protective hold on his crew. So, his emotional reaction was probably stronger and got through to River. That's all I see from it.

Also in OiS we see her going through the ship reading the crew. I see nothing special about her read on Mal. Seemed just like the read she got on Simon, Jayne and Inara really. The unique reads were Book (obviously), Kaylee (nothing) and Zoe + Wash all sexualtosis.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 11:28 AM

DIEGO

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
She senses emtion "she can't not". It was told to us in Ariel.

I believe the discussion about her damaged amydala was referring to the fact that she can't help but feel her OWN emotions fully and this is part of the explanation for her behavior. You seem to be suggesting that this scene explains that she can't help but read other people's emotions.

Simon did not have any reason to believe that the amygdala, or any other know part of the brain, was responsible for telepathy or empathy. I don't get the impression that telepathy and empathy are commonly accepted phenomena in the Verse. That doesn't mean that the specific brain damage isn't the cause of her putative power or that it wasn't directed by the Blue Hands for just that reason. It just means that Simon was only concerned with diagnosing her emotional problems.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 12:13 PM

ZEEK

Well I also couple this with my own theory that Simon isn't being straight with the crew. He's holding back information about River because he doesn't want it used against them. For instance in Objects in Space Mal asks Simon directly about the possibility that River is psychic. Simon just sorta dances around the question. I don't think he would tell them if he found out she was or wasn't.

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Friday, August 12, 2005 1:31 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!

Just now, watching SciFi (Bushwhacked), the scene where River wanders into the cargo hold where Mal and Zoe are looking over the left behind provisions. Zoe comments about how everyone couldn't fit onto the escape pod, to which Mal then sees River. She's looking up, and before he does the same, Mal comments " they didn't escape". Made me think of this thread...curious.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Friday, August 12, 2005 2:28 PM

GAVIDA

Quote:
Originally posted by Zeek:
Did Book seem emotional to you when he said "that's quite a lot of blood"? He seems to me like he's been shot plenty of times before and doesn't get worked up over it.

I for my part think that Book wasn't emotional because he was going into shock.

I have seen people react like this, seeming all calm during an accident. Kind of freaky, actually.

But from the replies here I started to play with the idea of River seing Mal as some kind of "father figure" (or a replacement for her real father). Maybe that plays into a special connection as well.

Gavida

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Sunday, August 14, 2005 7:28 PM

VISITINGMYINTENTIONS

I don't know about psychicly, but I do believe River has a special connection to Mal, and not as a father figure either.

The line in Safe, where Mal says, "Is it bad if what she said makes sense to me?"--it shows Mal being the first person to see sense in her "crazy talk". Kaylee thinks of her as a little girl, which makes them fine friends, but Kaylee is scared when River shows anything strongly discrepant with that view. Mal starts with seeing River as a nuisance, but he seems to be progressing towards accepting her as a valuable person, although her mental problems may be a danger.

My favourite episode, Objects in Space, ends with River looking joyful as she is welcomed by Mal, and they are playful with each other ("Permission to come aboard, Captain?"). The reason I do not think they have a father-daughter relationship is the way Mal accepts her authority immediately and unquestioningly when she talks to him over the intercom. Again, the exchange between them is slightly playful, and definitely among equals ("Don't make faces."). I think that while Simon may be brotherly, Kaylee may be sisterly, Mal may be becoming a friend. In the exchanges in the last episode, Mal seems more at ease with her than he is with anyone besides Zoe (too much tension with Inara, and to the rest of the crew he is the Captain). She and Zoe are the only two people on the ship he neither hired nor took on as a paying passenger.

-------------------------------------------------
Early: Where'd she go?

Simon: I can't keep track of her when she's NOT incorporeally possessing a spaceship, don't look at me --

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