Where were Jayne and Wash during the war? by SixGun

FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Where were Jayne and Wash during the war?

POSTED BY: SIXGUN
UPDATED: Thursday, December 21, 2006 13:25
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 7580
PAGE 1 of 1

Thursday, December 7, 2006 5:19 PM

We know where Mal and Zoe were. Kaylee and River were probably just kids. Simon was no doubt in medical school. We get the idea Book had some Alliance connection so was probably involved in some way. Inara was probably entering the Academy. Not many clues in regard to Jayne and Wash.

In Train Job Jayne says "I didn't fight in no war. Best of luck, though." Personally, I believe he was probably in prison the whole time. He seems to have military training. Perhaps he was a soldier at the beginning but did something to get thrown into prison, perhaps slugged a commanding officer.

Wash is a pilot but has no military demeanor at all and in fact has that not liking Zoe calling Mal sir thing going on. In a couple episodes and in Serenity he seems competant in evasion techniques but with the exception of War Stories, we never see him touch a gun. Where were these guys?

Well, as a rule I say girl folk ain't to be trusted.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 7, 2006 5:36 PM

ARCADIA

Jayne deliberately stayed out of the war because the money wasn't good enough on either side. He was probably thieving, as he usually is.

Wash... well, gues we'll never know. Because it was never decided. Alan has said he was working out a backstory for Wash in whcih Wash flew one mission (supply run, probably) for the Browncoats, was captured and made a POW, then spent the remainder of the war in camp entertaining fellow inmates with shadow puppets. It's an amusing idea, but I'm not sure Joss would have necessarily made it the offical backstory.

Arcadia (aka Greyfable and/or Katie)
www.stillflying.net -- picking up Firefly were Joss left off. We will hold 'til he gets back.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 7, 2006 6:19 PM

JVP

With a fat 'stache like his, the Browncoats woulda won if Wash fought with them.

A moustache like the one he had in Out of Gas is something to be feared.

I don't know about Jayne, but Arcadia is right about Wash, at least... I think it's for the commentary on War Stories (then on to The Message) that Alan explains his shadow puppet idea... he helped enforce it by including the line into a couple of episodes.

Distract them.
With what? Shadow puppets?

paraphrase

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 7, 2006 6:58 PM

KELAI

I believe it was The Message commentary, where Mal tells Wash to hold them off and he says "What? Do I do shadow puppets?" or something like that.

--

//breathe today So many lies s w i r l i n g
All A R O U N D You
you're S U F F O C A T I N G
the e m p t y shape in Y O U
s t e a l s your b r e a t h

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 7, 2006 7:22 PM

TERRI

I always wondered about the correlation between the colors that are used as background during the opening credits, and the backgrounds of the characters. This has probably already been delved into, but I see it like this: First, the obvious ones, Mal and Zoe, brown, for Browncoats. Inara and Jayne green, for money. Inara's a compantion and Jayne will do anything if you pay him enough. Which, in my own roundabout way, is what I think he was doing during the war. And then Simon and River, purple, because they spent thier whole lives with the Alliance. Alright, the ambiguous ones. So, Wash is Brown, right? I feel like he had a hand in the war, and maybe ran with the Browncoats. Okay, Kaylee, not sure why she's green. I mean, techinically she's being paid for being the mechanic on Serenity. Well, I still haven't completely worked out that one yet. And then finally, the secret history of Shepard Book. We know he has some connection with the Alliance, we just don't know what it is, yet. So, I figure, given more time, Joss would have explained everything to us. Oh, I need to go ahead and start up my production company so I can get started funding Serenity 2: The Return of Book and Wash. Oh well, I'm working on it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 7, 2006 8:23 PM

JVP

I don't know if I agree with some of the colour meanings, but the general idea seems right on.

I don't know if green signifies money as much as it signifies pleasure. Inara picks her partners, right, so it isn't just based on wealth.

But moving on, I'm pretty sure Jayne was just banditing. We know that the events that made Jayne the Hero of Canton took place some four years before "present" day. And I think it's safe to assume he didn't hook up with Mal's crew until a couple months or even a couple of years (because note that Mal had obviously gotten Serenity up and running and had established enough of a name for himself to have a bit of a reputation BEFORE Marco's band (Jayne among them) attacked).

And Wash had a reference list "as long as [Mal's] leg", so I think it's fair to assume that he was flying plenty of odd-jobs during the war, if he didn't actively participate in it.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Friday, December 8, 2006 5:51 PM

TERRI

Yeah, but green for pleasure doesn't make as much sense as green for money. Even though, I don't know if future cashy money is green or not, but bear with me. Okay, yeah, Inara chooses her partners, but nonetheless she's paid for it. And all the registration with the Guild in the world doesn't change that. Jayne is about the money. Why'd he switch sides to join the crew of Serenity in the first place? Well, I remember something about a bigger bunk, but Mal promised him more money.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Saturday, December 9, 2006 2:42 PM

JVP

I noticed that they use chinese notes (name of currency.. beats me), which are more of a faded kind of beige with purple/red colouring than anything else.

If Inara was all about money, she would pick her clients based on their wealth, not her personal connection to them. Seems wrong to group Inara with Jayne, as Jayne is greedy and Inara is choosey.

~
How's it sit? Pretty cunning, don't you think?

A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything.

That hat makes you look like an idiot.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, December 11, 2006 4:21 PM

TERRI

Okay, yeah, I see where you're going with this. But, I mean that, okay, we all love Inara. She's our favorite companion. But what is she? She's a glorified prostitute. She has sex with men for money. If she didn't get any money in return, no matter how 'choosey' she is, then I would see how it doesn't make sense. But she gets paid for it. She's a prostitute. Which, makes the whole money think make sense. Yeah, Jayne would kick his grandmother in the teeth if you paid him enough, and Inara dumped ol' Atherton Wing because he was a jerk, but in the end, money is changing hands. As for the notes about the money. Yeah, Chinese money is more colorful than ours, but for Western minds (and for, I'm almost positive, Joss); green means two things: envy and cashy money.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Sunday, December 17, 2006 1:30 PM

JVP

I was watching one of the episodes with the commentary (Tim Minear and someone else (sorry, I'm really out of it right now)), and Tim, when talking about Inara specifically mentions about green being equated to emotions (I only happened to flick on the commentary for a few seconds, perfect timing, mind you, so I didn't catch the rest).

~
How's it sit? Pretty cunning, don't you think?

A man walks down the street in that hat, people know he's not afraid of anything.

That hat makes you look like an idiot.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, December 18, 2006 2:52 PM

BAGHEERA

I got the impression that Jayne was a smalltime hoodlum around the time of war given his activities during Jaynestown and Out of Gas.

River's history is pretty well laid out.. she was at home until she went to the academy.

Inara... was either training as a companion or working as one... either way, its not really that associated with the war, although as someone mentioned elsewhere she may have had some encounters that fostered browncoat sympathies.

the commentary mentions Wash's pseudobackstory about shadowpuppets, and while that is slightly absurd, the POW aspect of that after flying a single mission fits in quite well with his character and adds a new depth to his marital frustrations in War Stories that he didnt have any to share with them... perhaps he had friends and comrades that fought and died in the war, but he "missed out" on his chance to serve bravely and harbors regrets that he may have tipped the balance of the war ever so slightly had he not failed in his first mission. of course thats just bs im rolling out with, but whatever...

kaylee (i believe) had never been off planet before joining the crew, and even then she asks permission from her parents... so i doubt she took any active role in the war.

the real question is book... but he aint talking.

~~~

now the thing about colors...

im more inclined to believe that the colors for the opening sequence are simply aesthetic choices then for "green represents money", especially given that the money isnt even green anyhow.

there IS significance to the lighting colors used in the different rooms however. this was referred to in one of the commentaries... if the reasoning behind those colors can be given, its possible there is the same reasoning behind the character lighting.

in all, i felt the colors in firefly generally represent the emotional state and stage and not as a direct image. ie... brown is earthy and nourishing and provides the foundation for the crew and doesnt serve solely as a symbol for browncoats... green could be for solitary energy, passion, and emotion ... purple could serve as nobility of purpose, love, and god knows what else.

saying inara is "basically a prostitute" is a total misconception that even the series never fails to poke fun at.

a whore has sex with anyone who pays her, and without being given money, no service is given.

to misquote Mal "I disrespect the profession, but not Inara"

Even if Companions generally act as whores, Inara doesnt.

Inara makes it clear that while a whore will serve anyone for the right price, she wont. so in a sense she is not a woman of negotiable virtue. in fact, she frequently "services" the crew as the ship's conscience and provides counsel to the crew when they are in need for free.

so the whole "green is for money" just doesnt jive... especially since Jayne makes it clear (in his own stubborn way) that even if he is the tough as nails mercenary, Mal is someone he wouldnt sell out.

I believe someone associated Jayne as being Mal's bulldog earlier in this thread, and I think this really holds true and illustrates the relationship they have. Before meeting Mal, Jayne was a beaten and abused puppy that had no faith that anyone else would ever look out for anyone but themself, so Jayne lived only for Jayne... and even if this change isnt readily apparent in the one season of firefly, there IS a change and growth to Jayne due COMPLETELY to Mal's good treatment of Jayne once he picked him up from "the pound", and gave him a nice doghouse to stay in, fed him well, and treated him as a living being and not just a tool to be used and thrown away when it breaks. (there are subtle references in the pilot and ariel that Jayne would never sell out Mal, no matter what price... even if his spoken words contradict that)

So while Jayne and Inara's "professional titles" may indicate money... their actual characters dont.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, December 18, 2006 4:03 PM

TERRI

Yeah, I get what you're saying about Inara. But Saying that money doesn't mean green is like saying that the heart that we all think of (you know, the one that looks nothing like the actual organ) doesn't represent love. We know what it means, whether or not it actually corresponds. Inara is a companion, she's a prostitute. She chooses her clients, yes, but the point I'm trying to make is that she doesn't sleep with them because she loves them, though I suppose she'd have to like them, but she's still paid for her services. Whether or not she 'counsels' the crew doesn't change the fact that she's paid for her sexual services. She sleeps with someone (hand chosen, maybe, personally attractive, possibly) but she sleeps with someone and they pay her. Am I mistaken as to it working that way? The least that you can do is agree that she is paid for her services, and that green can represent money. As for Jayne, maybe (or maybe not) Jayne would betray Mal, though I wouldn't go that far, I still think that he might if the money was good enough, but we already know that he would betray others on the crew if the money was good enough, and that's what I mean. Granted he learns his lesson in Ariel, but Jayne isn't the brightest bulb in the box, and I doubt that (while the lesson will last longer and longer) it will stick completely once he get's a look at a good wad of cashy money floating around. I think that it fits. I think that having Zoe and Mal in front of brown, and Book and the Tams in front of purple signifies something. Why would the other colors have a meaning behind them and those do not. On top of that, okay, so Inara's jealous, of I assume whoever Mal's with. But what does green mean for Jayne, or Kaylee for that matter?

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, December 18, 2006 8:34 PM

PURPLEBELLY

Surely, if we're looking for keys to colour-coding then the simplest approach is to adapt the conventional red-blue-green nomenclature; two protagonists (brown and purple) and a neutral (green). Not that I think the colouring is any more than a graphic design choice, and the order is anything other than chronological.

NOTIFY: N | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Monday, December 18, 2006 10:36 PM

JVP

I was going to suggest that perhaps the colours may have no significance as well, was just playing along is all.

I think Jayne gets a bum rap for being greedy. He may like coin as much as the next feller, but well, he does a lot of things "for free" (ie. almost all of the Serenity movie :p).

~

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Tuesday, December 19, 2006 6:19 PM

ASORTAFAIRYTALE

Hmm..I've always felt like Jayne probably wouldn't have cared enough to fight in a war. All he cares about is money, so I doubt that he would be dedicated enough to risk his life for a cause. Also, he says in the Train Job that "He didn't fight in no war."
Wash I think he might have been a part of the war, and I actually do like Alan's theory.

But then it's also likely that he didn't get to do much fighting, because otherwise he might better understand Mal and Zoe's relationship, which he clearly doesn't understand in War Stories.

---------
Love keeps her in the air when she outta fall down, tells you she's hurting before she keels. Makes her a home.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

Thursday, December 21, 2006 1:25 PM

BAGHEERA

Quote:
Originally posted by asortafairytale:

Wash I think he might have been a part of the war, and I actually do like Alan's theory.
But then it's also likely that he didn't get to do much fighting, because otherwise he might better understand Mal and Zoe's relationship, which he clearly doesn't understand in War Stories.

Well, I'd like to affirm what you said about him not doing much fighting with his...

"I was in a firefight once.... well, I was fired from a fry cook opportunity once..." line, while laced with his traditional 'no bearing to reality' humor, does seem to imply that he has never seen the type of action that Mal and Zoe saw.

and well...

companions are not whores.

the one character to actually believe Inara was one got blacklisted in Shindig.

Inara also pointedly notes the difference in Heart of Gold (although she does not disparage the profession of whores, either)

Companions are more comparable to courtesans then they are to whores, prostitutes or callgirls... and if you cant tell the difference between those four, then try to wrap your head around the fact that much of a courtesan's "paid time" was not used in her talents between the sheets, but rather for her ability to socialize and hold a conversation. quote Dangerous Beauty ~ in the middle ages ... "Courtesans are among the most educated women in the world" they were welcome in libraries, where even the wives of nobility could not tread, and such and such and such...

the greatest difference between Inara and prostitutes though...

is that I cannot see Inara "selling" herself to someone.

certainly, she might sell her time to someone, and "share" of herself with that person in that time... but at no point should that person make the presumption to think he owns her. (again, illustrated by Shindig)

Keep on walking preacherman.

NOTIFY: Y | REPLY | REPLY WITH QUOTE | TOP | HOME

YOUR OPTIONS

SHARE THREAD

NEW POSTS TODAY

USER	POST DATE

USER

POST DATE