FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Non-Critical Operative Questions

POSTED BY: JONGSSTRAW
UPDATED: Thursday, September 6, 2007 14:48
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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 2:46 AM

JONGSSTRAW


I love Serenity, every single second of it. Certainly not posting this to be negative in any way....just have a couple of questions, probably been asked and answered before so I respectfully ask again:

1) When did the Operative come to the facility where River was being held...right after Simon broke her out? Right? That's how it appeared to me since the "doctor" seemed to have the exact same clothes and haircut.....So why did it take the Operative 8 months to find River through the subliminal signal? What was he doing for all those 8 months?...and if the answer is that he first showed up there 8 months after the breakout, how come so long to come-a-knockin'?

2) The Operative had no name and no rank...he "didn't exist"...and as Book predicted he did come at Mal & Serenity "sideways"....But after that we see him commanding an armada of Alliance warships....with sub-commanders et al taking orders from him. How could military ships' personnel take commands from him? He obviously had little battle experience in space and his poor leadership led to massive destruction of Alliance property and many soldier's deaths.


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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 3:40 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
1) When did the Operative come to the facility where River was being held...right after Simon broke her out? Right? That's how it appeared to me since the "doctor" seemed to have the exact same clothes and haircut.....So why did it take the Operative 8 months to find River through the subliminal signal? What was he doing for all those 8 months?...and if the answer is that he first showed up there 8 months after the breakout, how come so long to come-a-knockin'?



Others had the job of bringing back the Tams before the Operative was called in. They failed. See the series and the graphic novel Serenity: Those Left Behind for details.

Quote:

2) The Operative had no name and no rank...he "didn't exist"...and as Book predicted he did come at Mal & Serenity "sideways"....But after that we see him commanding an armada of Alliance warships....with sub-commanders et al taking orders from him. How could military ships' personnel take commands from him? He obviously had little battle experience in space and his poor leadership led to massive destruction of Alliance property and many soldier's deaths.


The Operative had authority directly from Parliament. So when he says jump....

David

"Looks like we got here just in the nick of time."

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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:05 AM

GWEK


Although it's never actually seen, Matthias's reaction would indicate that the Operative's electronic ID was tagged with a letter or some other indication of his Parliamentary authority. My history is a little rusty these days, but I believe the SS has similar authority in Nazi Germany: they were technically outside the SA (Army) chain of command, but had automatic authority if they commanded it.

So, basically, folks just see The Op's ID and know that they need to give him whatever he asks for, because he's backed by the full authority of Parliament.

Sounds familiar... Where have we seen that before? Hmmm. Maybe "Safe"?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."

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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:08 AM

JONGSSTRAW


OK...you're saying that the Operative was not called in until 8 months after River's escape. I have watched the series...a lot...I don't recall anybody else going after River other than the hands of blue gents and the bounty hunter. I guess there's much more to this in the novel which I have not yet read. Thanks Daveshayne.

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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:13 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by GWEK:
Although it's never actually seen, Matthias's reaction would indicate that the Operative's electronic ID was tagged with a letter or some other indication of his Parliamentary authority. My history is a little rusty these days, but I believe the SS has similar authority in Nazi Germany: they were technically outside the SA (Army) chain of command, but had automatic authority if they commanded it.

So, basically, folks just see The Op's ID and know that they need to give him whatever he asks for, because he's backed by the full authority of Parliament.

Sounds familiar... Where have we seen that before? Hmmm. Maybe "Safe"?

www.stillflying.net: "Here's how it might have been..."


...or like our own CIA fellas directing the officers & prison guards at Abu Ghraib....yes it's clear now...as long as the "Military" is under civiilan control, who really knows what these civilians are doing and/or directing!

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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:35 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
OK...you're saying that the Operative was not called in until 8 months after River's escape. I have watched the series...a lot...I don't recall anybody else going after River other than the hands of blue gents and the bounty hunter. I guess there's much more to this in the novel which I have not yet read. Thanks Daveshayne.



The order to pursue River and Simon was initally given to the Hands of Blue, who are refered to as "Independent Subcontractors" in the graphic story Those Left Behind. I detail in length the nature of the hands of blue in my Blog entries regarding the nature of the Blue Sun Corporation if you are interested to know more about them. The cliffnotes verson is that the HoB are not affiliated with the government, they are with the Blue Sun Corp who had a contract with the Alliance to produce a psychic assassin. Again, refer to my blog if you want to know more. Basically, Parliment gave Blue Sun the chance to clean up their own mess before involving themselves.

River knew who the HoB were, which indicates that they had some involvement directly with her tortures. In the events between when River and Simon flee until the Episode Ariel, there is no indication that anyone other than the HoB are searching for the Tams. After Ariel things change. Early was tipped off that the Tams had been in the Hospital and started his own independent pursuit. This ended in a failure to capture as we know, but it still hadn't stopped the HoB. Had Early been successful, he would have most likely turned the Tams over to Blue Sun, recieved his reward (which was large enough to retire on) and gone his way. Early was simply a Bounty Hunter with no care for politics.

The events of Those Left Behind occur after Objects in Space and detail how the HoB also fail in their attempt to capture the Tams. Once their failure is known, the Parliment decides it's time for the Blue Sun Corp to step aside from trying to clean up their own mess and they send in the Operative. At the end of the graphic is a panel showing the Operative recieving his orders. It's implied that his next action was to travel to the academy where River was being tortured to view the archive records as we see in the opening of the film.



Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:41 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
OK...you're saying that the Operative was not called in until 8 months after River's escape. I have watched the series...a lot...I don't recall anybody else going after River other than the hands of blue gents and the bounty hunter. I guess there's much more to this in the novel which I have not yet read. Thanks Daveshayne.



There was Dobson from Serenity: The Episode. The novelization of the BDM may help but I think the graphic novel Serenity: Those Left Behind most clearly shows the timeline viz the Operative.

David

"Looks like we got here just in the nick of time."

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Wednesday, August 8, 2007 4:54 AM

JONGSSTRAW


Quote:

Originally posted by bluesuncompanyman:
Quote:

Originally posted by Jongsstraw:
OK...you're saying that the Operative was not called in until 8 months after River's escape. I have watched the series...a lot...I don't recall anybody else going after River other than the hands of blue gents and the bounty hunter. I guess there's much more to this in the novel which I have not yet read. Thanks Daveshayne.



The order to pursue River and Simon was initally given to the Hands of Blue, who are refered to as "Independent Subcontractors" in the graphic story Those Left Behind. I detail in length the nature of the hands of blue in my Blog entries regarding the nature of the Blue Sun Corporation if you are interested to know more about them. The cliffnotes verson is that the HoB are not affiliated with the government, they are with the Blue Sun Corp who had a contract with the Alliance to produce a psychic assassin. Again, refer to my blog if you want to know more. Basically, Parliment gave Blue Sun the chance to clean up their own mess before involving themselves.

River knew who the HoB were, which indicates that they had some involvement directly with her tortures. In the events between when River and Simon flee until the Episode Ariel, there is no indication that anyone other than the HoB are searching for the Tams. After Ariel things change. Early was tipped off that the Tams had been in the Hospital and started his own independent pursuit. This ended in a failure to capture as we know, but it still hadn't stopped the HoB. Had Early been successful, he would have most likely turned the Tams over to Blue Sun, recieved his reward (which was large enough to retire on) and gone his way. Early was simply a Bounty Hunter with no care for politics.

The events of Those Left Behind occur after Objects in Space and detail how the HoB also fail in their attempt to capture the Tams. Once their failure is known, the Parliment decides it's time for the Blue Sun Corp to step aside from trying to clean up their own mess and they send in the Operative. At the end of the graphic is a panel showing the Operative recieving his orders. It's implied that his next action was to travel to the academy where River was being tortured to view the archive records as we see in the opening of the film.



Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.


Wow....thank you so much!

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Friday, August 10, 2007 5:05 PM

FREEBROWNCOAT


An excellent analysis with insightful deductions. Well done.

Now about Book .....

"No, I don't."

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Sunday, August 12, 2007 12:09 PM

NBZ


We have to also realise that River was mostly kept on the ship.

The only reason she was at the bar was because... Erm why was she there?

(We can go by the version at Virtual Firefly which says she knew that the crew were in danger, that Fanty and Mingo were planning on double-crossing them.)

If Simon had not punched Mal, threatened to leave - and Mal accepted, it is entirely possible that the Operative would have taken another few months or longer.

One other thing to consider is that Mr Universe does say he has seen the code pop up for months. This does not seem to easily tie in with the timeline from Those Left Behind.

It was not to have been a short hunt.

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:05 AM

PACHELBEL


Quote:

graphic novel Serenity: Those Left Behind


Ok. When you say graphic novel, is that the comic book?

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:35 AM

DAVESHAYNE


Quote:

Originally posted by pachelbel:
Quote:

graphic novel Serenity: Those Left Behind


Ok. When you say graphic novel, is that the comic book?



It's the manga sized compilation of the three issue comic book, yes.

David

'Geeks can't admit that anything worthwhile was invented before 1981. Soon, "making cocoa" will be called "milk hacking."' - Lore Sjoberg

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Tuesday, August 28, 2007 8:46 AM

DUKUSUKKER


Wow. Awesome stuff.

It is also good to note that Simon and River were tagged fugitives and their information was being broadcast everywhere from the time of their escape. So they avoided exposure as much as possible...well, until Mal told Simon to take her for a walk in SAFE. Bounty hunters were probably looking for them and though local law enforcement wasnt actively searching, they were encouraged to keep an eye out. Then, like DAVESHAYNE pointed out, the Operative was sent only when all else failed. It makes the Operative MUCH cooler and much more frightening that he is the "cleaner" for Parliament - and that they send him last.

dukusukker
---------------------

"noah's ark is a problem..."

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Wednesday, August 29, 2007 12:11 AM

SPACEANJL


The 'cleaner' analogy is a very good one. Kinda scary, the idea that there's a whole cadre of folk out there, who can do what they like, in order to get the job done.

Seems to be a sort of 'Minority Report' thing, in that the vid-screens all record as well as transmit, and there is retinal identification. It would be a lot harder to hide that you might think - anyplace that has technology is open to being utilised as a spy post.

My opinion is that there is more than one interested party out looking for River now. Not just the people who created her (and that's a whole different discussion.)

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Saturday, September 1, 2007 9:38 AM

RIVERFLAN


Quote:

Originally posted by nbz:
We have to also realise that River was mostly kept on the ship.

The only reason she was at the bar was because... Erm why was she there?



Because Simon had to get off Serenity, because Mal made him, and River followed. And she was wandering around like she's apt to do.



"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems." -River

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think -River

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Saturday, September 1, 2007 10:19 AM

NBZ


That is why she was off the ship.

(A nitpick - Simon also chose to leave. Mal reinforcing is not really that important IMO. It's like saying "You can't fire me, I quit!")

Why she turned up at the bar was either randomly wandering around as you said, or to pick up her earnings (or for some other reason). More or less what you suggested.

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Thursday, September 6, 2007 2:48 PM

RIVERFLAN


Quote:

Originally posted by nbz:
(A nitpick - Simon also chose to leave. Mal reinforcing is not really that important IMO. It's like saying "You can't fire me, I quit!")



You are absolutely right, and I stand corrected.

Thanks for catching that mistake .

"The human body can be drained of blood in 8.6 seconds, given adequate vaccuuming systems." -River

"It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think -River

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