FIREFLY EPISODE DISCUSSIONS

Wow, now there's competition for OOG as the best IMO

POSTED BY: DELVO
UPDATED: Friday, November 17, 2017 02:20
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Friday, November 15, 2002 6:21 PM

DELVO


I remember when Robert Hewitt Wolf, creator of Andromeda, was fired from any more involvement with Andromeda, and he posted a message that they wanted to make the show more action-oriented and not involve any more of that tiresome mental or emotional stuff, that there was still some hope after a few episodes like "Into the Labyrinth" and "Immaculate Perception", which had it all instead of having to pick one or the other. This is an episode like that, only without the specter of the Tirbunites looming over it and fear of the show's coming ruination hanging in the back of the mind.

The action was solid on several levels. Jayne's methods continue to be ugly but straightforward and effective, a welcome break after everyone's gotten obsessed with spinning around and floating and dozens of kicks and punches apparently not felt by either participant. We've seen at least a couple of the high-tech (and in one case non-lethal) weapons that some have bemoaned the absence of before, and they were in the proper context (the rich clean facility's security and the secret agent dudes with the BSI gloves). Mal's handling of Jayne at the end comes as a bit of a surprise but is woven into previous action when Mal points out that they unexpectedly met halfway, with Jayne and the Tams already running, before Mal and Zoe had needed to really get anywhere inside, a subtle point that the viewer could have forgotten until then.

Speaking of Mal's handling of Jayne, the attitude was the perfect way to handle him, but not many others... whom he didn't allow to see it. Good team management. As for the other characters, the information on River is intriguing but obviously incomplete, and now we have an interesting mystery to ponder about Jayne: Why did he un-betray them, BEFORE getting arrested along with them and finding out he wouldn't get his money? The timing seems to suggest that he saw how badly the Alliance had messed up River and decided there's something he dislikes more than he likes money. But maybe the timing's coincidental and he just decided that a long-term gig on this ship was better than a one-time windfall. And either way, it would still leave the possibility that some other non-Alliance figure can still buy him off later... Meanwhile, I liked seeing Simon break out of his stuffy-dork pidgeonhole and turn out to be able to use his mind for something more like Jayne, Mal, and Zoe would usually think up. In a way, it was funny at first, but still had to be taken seriously.

I liked the fact that they'd made the medical technology look a bit different but still principally the same, and wasn't sure how I felt about the doorframes being present-day standard. They managed not to screw up anything too seriously on the medical front, except maybe the Tams' antidote being delivered in a vein when their blood wasn't flowing, so it could only distribute by diffusion. When Simon was talking about the drugs' values at the beginning, at first I didn't like the idea that now they were drug dealers, but then I remembered that he was probably just talking about selling them as legitimate medicines

This episode would have been fine with no humor, but the humor we did get was kept in its place (Jayne reciting his line when he didn't need to and complaining about the high-tech piece of crap not damaging the door, for example) and didn't take on cheesey forms as it often can in an action show, so that it didn't interfere with the feel and flow of the episode's other qualities.

Also, the change of setting was refreshing, both inside and outside... but this leads me to my one big complaint about the whole thing... would it really have been too much trouble for the water under the landing ship to be just a bit disturbed? We've seen that it stirs up dust before. (HA! Let's see you guys get into a tangential debate of the moral, cultural, and psychological implications of THAT one!)

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Friday, November 15, 2002 7:54 PM

JAYNESGIRLFRIEND


Quote:

Originally posted by Delvo:

As for the other characters, the information on River is intriguing but obviously incomplete, and now we have an interesting mystery to ponder about Jayne: Why did he un-betray them, BEFORE getting arrested along with them and finding out he wouldn't get his money? The timing seems to suggest that he saw how badly the Alliance had messed up River and decided there's something he dislikes more than he likes money. But maybe the timing's coincidental and he just decided that a long-term gig on this ship was better than a one-time windfall. And either way, it would still leave the possibility that some other non-Alliance figure can still buy him off later...



Its not entirely clear whether or not he did un-betray them. Did we ever find out exactly what the plan was for the Alliance to pick them up? So either Jayne rushed them out to avoid the Alliance or to get the sibs to a rendezvous point. I wish that had been made a little clearer. There was something in his attitude that made it seem like he was regretting the decision though. Of course I may be projecting a bit, I love how morally ambiguous Jayne is, but I never really expected him to do what he did. I guess I've been waiting for the standard TV issue heart of gold to kick in. I can't help being glad it hasn't though.

"I was gonna get me an ear, too." - Jayne

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Friday, November 15, 2002 8:41 PM

QUEENTIYE


Quote:

Originally posted by Delvo:
I remember when Robert Hewitt Wolf, creator of Andromeda, was fired from any more involvement with Andromeda, and he posted a message that they wanted to make the show more action-oriented and not involve any more of that tiresome mental or emotional stuff, that there was still some hope after a few episodes like "Into the Labyrinth" and "Immaculate Perception", which had it all instead of having to pick one or the other. This is an episode like that, only without the specter of the Tirbunites looming over it and fear of the show's coming ruination hanging in the back of the mind.



{{{{{{{{{Delvo}}}}}}}}}} Yeah.

Quote:

The action was solid on several levels. Jayne's methods continue to be ugly but straightforward and effective, a welcome break after everyone's gotten obsessed with spinning around and floating and dozens of kicks and punches apparently not felt by either participant.

The action on this was perfect. Nothing jumped out glaringly from the storyline - nothing lasted longer than made sense to get to the point...I had complained early in the season about Mal's right jab - I was underimpressed by it. Now I like it - it's taut, and to the point, like all of the action sequences so far this SERIES. In fact - it's nearly a metaphor. Why punch, kick spinaround in circles for 10 minutes, when the first punch would have done the trick? No need at all. Punch the guy out, shoot him, whatever, and get on with things.

Quote:

We've seen at least a couple of the high-tech (and in one case non-lethal) weapons that some have bemoaned the absence of before,
I missed the non-lethal weapon? Or is that the one that they shot Jayne with? (Think I answered my own question??? LOL!) Um.. but how creepy were those magic wands? Gosh, that was the scariest thing I've seen on tv in a while, AND gory - I had to close my eyes after a while!
Quote:

Mal's handling of Jayne at the end comes as a bit of a surprise but is woven into previous action when Mal points out that they unexpectedly met halfway, with Jayne and the Tams already running, before Mal and Zoe had needed to really get anywhere inside, a subtle point that the viewer could have forgotten until then.

Speaking of Mal's handling of Jayne, the attitude was the perfect way to handle him, but not many others... whom he didn't allow to see it. Good team management.



Well, I persist in thinking that Mal is sheer wonderfulness... I love the way that he doesn't compromise the principle that the crew is ONE... and that an attack on the crew is an attack on him. It is consistency of character - you don't have to wonder where you stand with Mr. Reynolds - he makes perfectly clear...

Quote:

As for the other characters, the information on River is intriguing but obviously incomplete,
Yes, incomplete - but here's what this episode did that last week's perhaps set up, but didn't quite deliver...River might not ever get better. In Simon & River's relationship, we see a very present day struggle unfolding of how much patience and love is needed to deal with the mentally ill, and the closing scene with Simon & River just touched me in a place that not too many shows ever reach. Truyly, this scene and the full implications of it, brought tears to my eyes, and I have a respect for Simon that I don't quite have words for.

Quote:

and now we have an interesting mystery to ponder about Jayne: Why did he un-betray them, BEFORE getting arrested along with them and finding out he wouldn't get his money? The timing seems to suggest that he saw how badly the Alliance had messed up River and decided there's something he dislikes more than he likes money. But maybe the timing's coincidental and he just decided that a long-term gig on this ship was better than a one-time windfall. And either way, it would still leave the possibility that some other non-Alliance figure can still buy him off later...
I'm sure I missed this - I didn't see Jayne unbetray anyone, although I saw him have second thoughts. Can you highlight what you saw? Frow what I did see, however, I can say that it looked more like Jayne was impressed by Simon's skill - and this element contrasted VERY nicely with his earlier statement "If I'da wanted schooling I'da gone to school." Here, Jayne is slightly awed by what all that schooling of Simon's can do.
Quote:

Meanwhile, I liked seeing Simon break out of his stuffy-dork pidgeonhole and turn out to be able to use his mind for something more like Jayne, Mal, and Zoe would usually think up. In a way, it was funny at first, but still had to be taken seriously.
I actually had mixed feelings here - the soundness of Simon's plan only served in my mind to highlight the persistent tension between him and Jayne, as Jayne begins to have a grudging respect for Simon. I was more impressed at how well Simon functioned on his home turf...

Quote:

This episode would have been fine with no humor, but the humor we did get was kept in its place (Jayne reciting his line when he didn't need to and complaining about the high-tech piece of crap not damaging the door, for example) and didn't take on cheesey forms as it often can in an action show, so that it didn't interfere with the feel and flow of the episode's other qualities.
Jayne persists in being the funniest guy on the ship, and at the same time the most conflicted. If the situation were less serious, I'd have laughted when he told Mal not to tell the others what he'd done. It was just a slightly comic way to think at a moment like that... and I tend to think that that awkward sense of SINCERE remorse is what saved his life (I know you are saying that Mal was simply managing his team, but I don't know if Mal wasn't going to dump Jayne - what Jayne did to the team was pretty reprehensible.

Quote:

Also, the change of setting was refreshing, both inside and outside... but this leads me to my one big complaint about the whole thing... would it really have been too much trouble for the water under the landing ship to be just a bit disturbed? We've seen that it stirs up dust before. (HA! Let's see you guys get into a tangential debate of the moral, cultural, and psychological implications of THAT one!)
Um... well, um...the water must have been treated with something to keep it static, to prevent the spread of west nile virus... o.k. that was the best I could come up with.. LOL!!!

QT

QueenTiye, Companion Academy, class of 2006

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Saturday, November 16, 2002 3:53 PM

RHEA


Hmm..well, I'm with QT. I've watched this episode three times now (ok, I'm at home with a cold and have nothing better to do, and this episode rocks!).

I think the change in plans was so that Jayne could safely betray them and have them well out of the way before meeting Mal et. al.

I think he began to feel bad about it, but I still think he would have taken his reward and exited smiling.

I *loved* this episode. So much going on on so many levels.

Jayne reminds me a lot of Londo on B5 - one week I hate him, the next I love him, the next I feel sorry for him - sometimes all in one episode.

I can almost understand River's slashing Jayne (although I'm sure she did it because it was a Blue Sun shirt, given that the food she destroyed before had Blue Sun labels). I wanted to smack him one and tell him to quit hawking and spitting myself!

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Thursday, November 16, 2017 3:39 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


This weeks episode Ariel is the 8th aired episode.

In last week's episode Safe, Jayne wanted to leave the Tams behind, but Mal States they are his crew.
To start this week, River knifes Jayne, and he wants to throw them off again, and again Mal says they are his crew. Seems a tad redundant.

Subtitles seem goofy. When about to depart the diagnostic chamber, River's lines are "They come out of the bike" and "You have a treasure in the sand."
When Mal says "gorram plan" he's quoted "grand plan"

It appears the Fed file on Jayne is a bit thin. A dominant fighter such as he should have had info to help the cops not get surprised by him. So, not a participant in the War, but not really known to the Feds. Interesting.

This is their most organized caper we've seen so far. And they didn't even need to get bailed out by Inara.

Is this the first time we see the Hands of Blue kill people, like the Feds at the hospital? Until now we could infer from Mal that the Alliance was some degree of evil, but now we can see that fair clearly.

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Friday, November 17, 2017 2:20 AM

JEWELSTAITEFAN


As I've said before, my first exposure to any Firefly episode was Ariel, the last half or third.
Not a lot was coherent, with people bleeding from their eyes and cheesy sonic rifles. But Mal wrenching Janye grabbed my attention, and hooked me to watch more if it.
So, off to buy the DVDs I went. Then had to buy a DVD Player. Then a TV set.

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