NEWS HEADLINE DISCUSSIONS

River's Rescue

POSTED BY: AIMSTOMISBEHAVE
UPDATED: Thursday, April 20, 2006 08:21
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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:15 PM

AIMSTOMISBEHAVE


In Firefly, Simon says he paid people and they River out of the institution and they brought her to Persephone, but in the movie, Simon gets her out himself...

just for more theatrical explanation?

coulda been covered before

"This show isn't about the people who made history; it's about the people history stepped on."

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 1:20 PM

SHINYMERC


Well, I think he said both that he paid people to find out what they were doing to her and to get her out. He didn't say anything about not being the one to get her to the extraction point. (I think he mentions working "with" them to get River out.)

Does that help?

--------------------------------------
Mal: "Do you want to run this ship?!"
Jayne: "Yes!"
Mal: "Well... you can't."

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 2:01 PM

AURAPTOR

America loves a winner!


Quote:

Originally posted by AimsToMisbehave:
In Firefly, Simon says he paid people and they River out of the institution and they brought her to Persephone, but in the movie, Simon gets her out himself...

just for more theatrical explanation?

coulda been covered before

"This show isn't about the people who made history; it's about the people history stepped on."



The series definantly gave the impression that River was delivered in frozen t.v. dinner fashion to Simon, and that he knew very little of what they did to her while in the *special school*. Well, in Serenity, not only was Simon there to see for himself, he was briefed by the head man, who mentioned precisely what they were doing to River, others, and how they were doing it.

That Simon played dumb on the t.v. show makes some sense, but I wish they hadn't involved him so much as the primary in River's escape.

Yeah, it's a bit of continuity problem for me too, but not overly much.

" They don't like it when you shoot at 'em. I worked that out myself. "

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:03 PM

HAEKELDRACHE


What about this:

He hab a little help from this People finding her and get him into the facility. Then he played the Doctor, freed her and they escaped.
Later on (he knew that they had to flee) he freezes River to transport her easier - River was traumatized, so she propably would be like a "Flare" to all the Cops out there, and the alliance was searching for siblings, not one single Man.
Simon got himself a ride, the Serenity, to the Outer Planets, with River in his Box.


---

"Burn the land and boil the Sea, you can´t take the Sky from me..."

Haekeldrache is german for Crochetdragon

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:20 PM

AIMSTOMISBEHAVE


eh... it jsut seemed to me like he got her in ice cube form and didn't really break in himself, or he wouldve known more...

maybe he had to get her out a second time (unlikely though, doesnt quite fit)

"This show isn't about the people who made history; it's about the people history stepped on."

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:43 PM

GARBAGECANMUSIC


Joss said at a Q&A session in Australia that he in fact broke canon and had Simon be part of River's escape in order to help tell the story in the movie. He said that he was going to explain it by having Simon not tell the complete story to the crew or something, he hadn't fully thought it out yet.

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 3:52 PM

AIMSTOMISBEHAVE


figured

"This show isn't about the people who made history; it's about the people history stepped on."

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 4:37 PM

BOWIE


all in all, I think it doesn't really matter if he got her out himself, or if the others did. He still didn't know exactly what they did to her, just that they were messing with her brain, which he knows in the show. Well for a while he doesn't know exactly WITH her actuale brain, but he does know they did stuff with her figurative brain. He can tell pretty easy that they drove her crazy, and thats shown in the movie and series.

If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Tuesday, January 24, 2006 6:45 PM

WYOBAR


Quote:

Originally posted by AimsToMisbehave:
eh... it jsut seemed to me like he got her in ice cube form and didn't really break in himself, or he wouldve known more...

maybe he had to get her out a second time (unlikely though, doesnt quite fit)

"This show isn't about the people who made history; it's about the people history stepped on."



When I first saw the rescue (from the BDM) I thought that Simon was getting her out for a second time & that the ship was Serenity. This would help explain the time lag for the Operative to come on the scene & also Simon's composure during the rescue (he did get more daring as time went by).

dong ma

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Wednesday, January 25, 2006 2:59 AM

AIMSTOMISBEHAVE


nah

"This show isn't about the people who made history; it's about the people history stepped on."

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Wednesday, January 25, 2006 5:17 AM

KENT


Personally I don't think there's much of a contradiction between the way Simon explains it in the pilot episode of Firefly, and the way it goes down in the beginning of Serenity.

No, Simon did not tell the crew that he was actively involved, but he never said he didn't. He got help from a group of people that smuggled her out in cryo stasis. This doesn't necessarily have to mean "out of the facility she was kept" but out from the world she was. Let's try to remember, after such a daring rescue you can hardly just jump into a ship and fly away expecting not to get caught. There'd have to be more to it... a smuggling part even.

Of course it's clear that it was not Joss's intention that Simon was involved in the rescue when he first made the pilot, but I still think it fits well enough that I won't complain.

I've also seen people mention that Simon seems so confident and good at what he does during the rescue, while he does not do as well in Jaynestown... The thing is, I think Simon could do it if he just had the time to prepare, and work on his "character". In Jaynestown he was just thrown into it... that's not the kind of person Simon is... he can't do spontaneous (unless River is in danger, which she actually was when he was breaking her out).

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 5:15 PM

DRAGONFEAR987


yea simon does better when hes got everything planned out ahead of time, and he knows all the details. point in case, just look at ariel. he was the mastermind behind that lil operation and it seemed to go over pretty well.

can someone explain how if the alliance screwed with rivers brain, just seeing the message on miranda cured her? i think thats bout the only point im confused bout and didnt like too much with the movie.

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Saturday, January 28, 2006 7:14 PM

DECKROID


How about this...

Cuz it was in the gorram script.

Done.

Next.


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Monday, January 30, 2006 7:21 AM

DRAGONFEAR987


man....the insight you can gain from reading someone elses opinion..........

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Monday, January 30, 2006 7:45 AM

PIZMOBEACH

... fully loaded, safety off...


Quote:

Originally posted by Wyobar:

When I first saw the rescue (from the BDM) I thought that Simon was getting her out for a second time & that the ship was Serenity. This would help explain the time lag for the Operative to come on the scene & also Simon's composure during the rescue (he did get more daring as time went by).



You are not alone - I thought the same thing because I was thinking that the "original rescue" was not Simon, and because they looked like time had passed (umm, sorry, their characters looked older). I also thought the ship was Serenity or a shuttle or another ship with Serenity crew, maybe Jane coming full circle from Ariel (pretty cool start imo)... only to have the rescue cut short by the Operative's "freeze it." Sadly, denouement denied...

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Monday, January 30, 2006 8:12 AM

FOLLOWMAL



I've never had any trouble with Simon's being in on River's rescue. You can surmise that when he got on Serenity and was questioned after River came out of cryo that he didn't trust folks on Serenity and he told them a sort of truth, leaving out pertinent details. Also he is much better at planning something and carrying it out, so that would explain his lack of ability in "Jaynestown".

As for River's being cured after the message on Miranda, I don't believe that is the case. I don't think River is "cured". She's still plenty messed up. But I think the message of Miranda was delivered, so that overwhelming need to have that message out is over. It makes her "alright", because she's done with that part.

She's still a weapon that can be triggered, she's still brain damaged because of what they did to her and she's still psychic and brilliant.

" You hold. Hold til I get back." Mal

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Thursday, February 2, 2006 12:31 PM

DRAGONFEAR987


saw the movie movie again and i think i understand the beginning and miranda parts with river a bit better.

the beginning, simon paid people to help him get her out. unless anyone can point it out, i dont recall him ever saying he paid other people to get her out, he just paid for their help. so him actually doing the rescue operation fits with the story. when river says that the memories she has arnt hers, shes talking about memories shes picked up from people at the academy. the scene where we see her at school in the start, my guess is that she picks up the memory of miranda at this point. shes at the academy, shes dreaming of herself at an old school and then you see all the dead people. my guess is it was at this point that she learned the secret of miranda.

the scene on miranda made alot more sense after seeing the firefly episodes and then watching the movie again, n what you said, followmal, makes sense. she understood that memory and it no longer affected her. but shes still got other problems that shell have to deal with.

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Thursday, February 2, 2006 5:39 PM

ITHAS2BME


This little “change” has bothered me ever since I saw the movie.

In the dining room Simon stated "If I funded them they could sneak her out in cryo. Get her to Boros and from there, I could take her... wherever."

Really only two explanations Simon lied which is possible, but unlikely of his character IMO (but who would have believed him if he described what we actually saw in Serenity) or one that to those that bleed brown (like myself) have a hard time accepting: "Serenity isn't Firefly", Joss said it himself. Not having Firefly's theme song in Serenity reinforces the later (except for the solo guitar sans lyrics but that was for the truly devoted who didn't want to leave the theater, me again). I'm actually OK with either explanation.

The best part to my little theory is the last part of Joss's quote from above: "...I would love to tell more stories of this universe and to hang out with these people on and off for the rest of my career."

Knowing that is just enough to keep me flying.

Spread the word: Can't stop the signal.

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Monday, February 6, 2006 9:35 AM

BOWIE


I don't think its against Simons charecter to lie to protect River, and I think thats exactly what he did.

Serenity Forever.

If you play Nationstates.net check out the region Firefly.

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 2:41 PM

YT

the movie is not the Series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors and characters remain the same


Quote:

Originally posted by garbagecanmusic:
Joss said at a Q&A session in Australia that he in fact broke canon and had Simon be part of River's escape in order to help tell the story in the movie. He said that he was going to explain it by having Simon not tell the complete story to the crew or something, he hadn't fully thought it out yet.


He said more than that. He originally wrote it (maybe shot it) the way Simon described it in the series pilot but, looking it over, he thought: Wow, how boring is that. Then he wrote the scene we saw.

The movie is not the series. Only the facts have been changed, to irritate the innocent; the names of the actors & characters remain the same

Keep the Shiny Side Up . . .

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 6:19 PM

WASHHEAD


hey sorry to burst your bubble but that ship was not Serenity or one of its shuttles because if ya buy the screen play book on Serenity it shows you the ship that the smugglers used to get river out and it looked pritty high tech not somthing you would probly see on Serenity

"People juggled geese!!"

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Thursday, April 13, 2006 1:40 PM

MERCURY002


Didn't notice this thread untill now. I thought that i would say that simon is more capable than you think, in 'safe' simon takes two guy's in a bearknuckle fist fight, wins and jumps onto, a soon to be, burning platform.

I dont normally reply to these little nitpick threads but this one is interesting, they normally spoil it form me.

Simon:"If the battle was so horrible, why did he name the ship after it?"
Zoe:"Once you've been in serenity you never leave"

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Thursday, April 20, 2006 8:21 AM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


(a) Simon is very capable. Even the Captain appreciates that - hence the statement that he didn't have to worry about Simon.

(B) I look at the BDM and the show as 2 separate entities. Both are great and stand on their own.

Does it really matter? Joss has already stated that he had to make the movie accessible to people who were not familiar with the show. I think the way he did it was great. I saw the movie first and wasn't lost in the least. Then I got the box set for Firefly and fell more in love.



One day.
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One army of Browncoats.

On June 23rd, we aim to misbehave!



Nathan doesn't know it yet, but I am his one true love! Is that weird?
(he will believe, he will believe)

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