OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

WAR OF THE BAT-FANS!

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Saturday, May 19, 2007 19:52
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 5005
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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:19 AM

CHRISISALL


I'm gonna say something here that some may find hard to believe or somewhat insane: I LIKE BATMAN AND ROBIN!
Yeah, I said it! It's kinetic, fun, and oh so colourful! Plus I like Clooney.
Don't get me wrong, I like Batman Begins the best, with Batman right behind, but BaR was a good serious/goofy entry, IMO.
Batman Returns, like Superman 3, was not enough about the main character for me, and Kilmer was plain wrong in Batman Forever, I thought.

Put up yer Bat-gloves Chrisisall


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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 11:59 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


swhiiirrr shwiiirr shwiiir DING
That was just a warning, the second won't miss.

I get first choice from the bat-bucket of weapons. Rollerblades!!!! NUFF SAID!

Give me the brooding, bad-assed, batman anyday. Begins and Batman are the only ones that do it for me. I guess I took my "comics" (word for twistin') WAY too seriously back in the day.

Heroes are always sad PDisAll


Now everyone make the noise (takes practice) that Arnie made falling down the hole/cave/cavern in Conan. Then think of Mr. Freeze. Coulda been the lines in BaR. Ok, thats a lil harsh.


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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:39 PM

STORYMARK


I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate hate really fuckin hate Batman & Robin.

I still want to kick Joel Schumacher in the crotch.

And I am a Cloony fan (credit where it's due: He was a good Bruce Wayne, but a terrible Batman).

This changes my whole view of you, Chris...


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 12:45 PM

EMMARIGBY


Batman and Robin was disturbingly camp. I get enough grief from my friends who enjoy getting me upset by insisting that Batman is gay without films making my protests less believable!

I liked Batman Returns, purely for Michelle Pfiefer in a catsuit! Meeeooow!

I have been in love with Catwoman for years. Here's the ultimate incarnation, if you've never read the Balent comics, I really recommend them, very witty!

___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 2:17 PM

HEWHOKICKSALOT

It takes all kinds to make the world go ‘round. Unfortunately, some are pedaling in the wrong direction...


He he heeee! You knew you'd get flamed for that one. Playing devil's advocate can be fun. I agree with Storymark re: Clooney as Wayne. He looks like Bruce Wayne should.

As for kicking Schumacher in the ? Maybe a little tap for taking my favorite comic hero of all time and returning him to his mid-sixties campiness.

Rob O.

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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 2:21 PM

FUTUREMRSFILLION


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm gonna say something here that some may find hard to believe or somewhat insane: I LIKE BATMAN AND ROBIN!
Yeah, I said it! It's kinetic, fun, and oh so colourful! Plus I like Clooney.
Don't get me wrong, I like Batman Begins the best, with Batman right behind, but BaR was a good serious/goofy entry, IMO.
Batman Returns, like Superman 3, was not enough about the main character for me, and Kilmer was plain wrong in Batman Forever, I thought.

Put up yer Bat-gloves Chrisisall




If I want camp I will watch the tv show.

Christian Bale and Michael Keaton are my favorites. Batman Begins was the best movie. I just wish they had left out all that crap in the first movies so we could have had more of the disturbingly intense Michael Keaton.


---- plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose

Bestower of Titles, Designer of Tshirts, Maker of Mottos, Keeper of the Pyre, Owner of a too big Turnippy smelling coat with MR scratched in the neck (thanks FollowMal!)

I am on The List. We are The Forsaken and we aim to burn!
"We don't fear the reaper"

FORSAKEN original


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Tuesday, May 15, 2007 2:26 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


I watched the first 3 or 4 minutes of it, the skating, the hockey? wtf hockey with a diamond? the goons and Arnie as Freeze and turned the channel. I couldn't believe what they had done to the character and franchise. It's like Superman 4, I have never seen it and I never will. People need to know when to back off for awhile, take a few years off, and come back again. Thank God they revived it in Batman Begins (my ULTIMATE favorite. Hmmmmm... Bale.) You know I even tried to read the script I found online..... 40 pages in and I stopped reading. Lordy, I know you hated the third one Chris but at least they showed the seriousness between Bruce's and Dick Grayson's friendship (and I go no farther than that.)

If I wanted intellegent in your face we don't mind making fun of ourselves camp I'll watch the old 60's series. They at least knew how to make it fun camp and not OMG this is so embarrasing camp. And as West says in the Simpsons, I didn't need a molded suit. Pure West.

As for the character himself, if I can't see myself being charmed and swayed by the actor's portrayel, I ain't gonna be interested. Bale, Keaton, Kilmer....... and West. Was that too much information?

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~


PETER: "FIRE!"

SYLER: "ICE!"

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:41 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:


Now everyone make the noise (takes practice) that Arnie made falling down the hole/cave/cavern in Conan

ARGHHH-WARRRR-AGHHHH-UHH-GRUGGGGGLE-ONGHHHH-OWWHA-WEREREUHGH-AGHLE!

EVERYBODY- SING! Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:44 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

This changes my whole view of you, Chris...



We all have our faults; mine's in California, er, I mean, Batman and Robin.

At tirty-tousand feet your heart will FREEZE...and beat- no moure. Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:46 AM

RIVER6213


George Clooney. I think that George Clooney made an excellent Bruce Wayne but was not a very good Batman.

-River

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:46 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Batman and Robin was disturbingly camp.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

But you have nice buds. Good stems, too Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:50 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HeWhoKicksAlot:
He he heeee! You knew you'd get flamed for that one.

I'm wearing bat-flame-retardant-bat-stuff!

*flings bat-a-rangs*

Bring it, you Arnie-haters! He was the ULTIMATE Mr. Freeze!!! He deserved an Oscar nomination, at least!

Ahl be back, with ICE Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:53 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by FutureMrsFIllion:

If I want camp I will watch the tv show.



I would have expected Forsaken members could see the genius that is Batman and Robin!!

I mean, he froze the dog peeing for gosh sakes!!! Wonderful stuff!!!!


Wooley Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I think that George Clooney made an excellent Bruce Wayne

There we go!

Intelligence from the peanut gallery Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 3:56 AM

EMMARIGBY


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Batman and Robin was disturbingly camp.

You say that like it's a bad thing...

But you have nice buds. Good stems, too Chrisisall



Ummm, thankyou? Is that a Poison Ivy quote that I've blocked out due to the horrendous cheesiness of the dialogue ("Holy Metal Batman!" ring a bell?!)

EDIT: I can't believe you're standing up for Arnie as Freeze. Maybe I take my cartoons and comics a little too seriously (okay I admit it, satisfied?) but I always loved the subtlety and complexity of that character, he's not supposed to be a big dumb bully. Now arnie as Killer Croc....!
___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:05 AM

HEWHOKICKSALOT

It takes all kinds to make the world go ‘round. Unfortunately, some are pedaling in the wrong direction...


"Holy RUSTED metal, Batman!" And that would be from Batman Forever, Schumacher's first foray into Bat-dom. Now, speaking of perfect villains, Jim Carey was perfect as The Riddler.

Flame-retardent Bat-stuff? Now that's funny. Oscar nomination? Whew, better renew your medication prescription....

Rob O.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:05 AM

HEWHOKICKSALOT

It takes all kinds to make the world go ‘round. Unfortunately, some are pedaling in the wrong direction...


"Holy RUSTED metal, Batman!" And that would be from Batman Forever, Schumacher's first foray into Bat-dom. Now, speaking of perfect villains, Jim Carey was perfect as The Riddler.

Flame-retardent Bat-stuff? Now that's funny. Oscar nomination? Whew, better renew your medication prescription....

Rob O.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:15 AM

EMMARIGBY


I stand corrected. Your trivia knoweldge is better than mine. Twice as good apparently!

___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:18 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HeWhoKicksAlot:
Oscar nomination [for Arnold]? Whew, better renew your medication prescription....


I laugh my frakkin' head off every time I see it! You think that kind of humour comes easy to actors? Arnold doesn't just phone it in like Lawrence Olivier did!!!

my meds...where are my meds...

Flame-proof Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:21 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
Maybe I take my cartoons and comics a little too seriously

That's what Batman Begins is for, miss.



Bat-ice-skate-wearin' Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:32 AM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I'm gonna say something here that some may find hard to believe or somewhat insane: I LIKE BATMAN AND ROBIN!
Yeah, I said it! It's kinetic, fun, and oh so colourful! Plus I like Clooney.
Don't get me wrong, I like Batman Begins the best, with Batman right behind, but BaR was a good serious/goofy entry, IMO.
Batman Returns, like Superman 3, was not enough about the main character for me, and Kilmer was plain wrong in Batman Forever, I thought.



Well, you're all going to hate me for this: I'm not a fan of any of them. In fact, I'm not a fan of hardly any superhero movie (with a few possible exceptions). But I definitely don't like the Batman movies. I'm a comic-book purist, and I haven't felt like any of the movies got the feel of the Batman universe right. Michael Keaton got pretty close to the right attitude of Bruce Wayne/Batman, but I just felt that the whole thing was off. The movies tend to focus on the gadgets and the villains, while the comics are largely meditations of the nature of vengeance, retribution and justice. Plus, thus damned scultped latex suits are ridiculous. I ran across the following photo on the net, and it ruined me for the latex suits. Now this guy I would be afraid of without all the ridiculous muscle-sculpted body armor:

http://www.louanders.com/uploaded_images/Batman-706327.JPG

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:32 AM

CONSTANCE


Batman and Robin kind of reminds me of the tv show...
I dont think its a good movie, but if you take it for what it is, a campy cheesy rather bad movie, it is funny. Without the cheesy dialouge it would have been one of the most boring movies ever... Now its atleast something one could laugh at.

Constance

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:34 AM

CYBERSNARK


Best part of Batman & Robin was the chance to see a version of the Nightwing suit. And a movie-verse Batgirl suit.

There aren't enough characters who wear actual armour in the comics.

Bulletproof rubber & kevlar > spandex.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:36 AM

HEWHOKICKSALOT

It takes all kinds to make the world go ‘round. Unfortunately, some are pedaling in the wrong direction...


Twice as good, I'm not so sure. Got a little happy with the ENTER key. Sorry. I only wanted to skip a couple of lines then BAM. Double post.

Anyway, I love Batman, as I stated before, so I was very glad to see the treatment he received in Batman Begins. Let's hope The Dark Knight continues the saga in an appropriate fashion.



Rob O.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:41 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:

Well, you're all going to hate me for this: I'm not a fan of any of them. In fact, I'm not a fan of hardly any superhero movie (with a few possible exceptions). But I definitely don't like the Batman movies. I'm a comic-book purist, and I haven't felt like any of the movies got the feel of the Batman universe right.

No hate here; I see your point totally. I have a friend that says almost exactly what you are here, he runs a cable access comic book discussion group (The Fantastic Forum out of Washington, D.C.).
BTW, what superhero flicks DO you like (Guessing maybe Superman TM...no- they got Lex wrong...ummm.............Daredevil...no- Kingpin was weak....)

Thanks for that pic Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 4:44 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HeWhoKicksAlot:

Anyway, I love Batman, as I stated before, so I was very glad to see the treatment he received in Batman Begins. Let's hope The Dark Knight continues the saga in an appropriate fashion.




The Dark Knight and Fantastic Four: Rise Of The Silver Surfer are my two MOST eagerly awaited flicks this decade.

I'll see Spidey 3 on DVD Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 5:07 AM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:
BTW, what superhero flicks DO you like



[ heresy ] Not so much a fan of Superman TM because of Lex, the turning-back-time thing, and Lois. [ / heresy ] But Christopher Reeve was brilliant as Clark Kent and Superman. In that same vein, I wasn't a huge fan of Lex and Lois in Superman Returns, but I have the same praise for Brandon Routh--he was great as Clark Kent and Superman. I just wish they'd get Lex's motives right: for him, it's only about wealth and power tangentially--he's really just pissed that this alien guy has all this power and uses it against (on his view) humanity. Margot Kidder made Lois too bitchy and Kate Bosworth made her too tough.

I really liked the second X-Men and the second Spiderman, but I suspect that that's because I don't read the Marvel universe. I might feel differently if I did.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 9:13 AM

EMMARIGBY


Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:
Now this guy I would be afraid of without all the ridiculous muscle-sculpted body armor:

http://www.louanders.com/uploaded_images/Batman-706327.JPG




Hmmm. I find that image both yummy and disturbing both at once. Something about the pose or possibly the shinyness of the material just doesn't seem very Dark Knight to me. The body beneath has definate potential!

My major criticism of Batman Begins was that it had Bruce as a bit of a dummy. Morgan Freeman was the brains of the operation. I fell in love with Batman at a very young age because he represented to me a real superhero, in that he was the pinnacle of human potential both physically and mentally, but with some intriguing emotional flaws to keep him interesting!

I was disappointed in that the film also fell into the current Hollywood trap of squeezing in too many bad guys at expense of character exposition (and don't even get me started on Spiderman 3 in that regard!)

___________________
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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:15 AM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by EmmaRigby:
My major criticism of Batman Begins was that it had Bruce as a bit of a dummy. Morgan Freeman was the brains of the operation. I fell in love with Batman at a very young age because he represented to me a real superhero, in that he was the pinnacle of human potential both physically and mentally, but with some intriguing emotional flaws to keep him interesting!



Yesyes! Right!

Quote:

I was disappointed in that the film also fell into the current Hollywood trap of squeezing in too many bad guys at expense of character exposition (and don't even get me started on Spiderman 3 in that regard!)



Franchise headed south? Pack in more baddies!

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 10:23 AM

CHRISISALL


Curious Causal, have you seen the Richard Donner Cut of Superman 2? (You have to skip the recycled turn-time-back ending they were forced to use, though, and it makes for a better film that way anyway)
It would have been the best superhero film in history had Donner been able to finish it his way back in '80, as it is, it's an intriguing look at what might have been.

Kneel before Chrisisall

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 12:11 PM

CORNCOBB


Sorry Chris, but Batman and Robin is my least favourite film of all time! I watched it once and came away with a headache and feelings of nausea. Seriously... no. Worst film ever made.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 12:46 PM

HEWHOKICKSALOT

It takes all kinds to make the world go ‘round. Unfortunately, some are pedaling in the wrong direction...


You're right. They definitely down-played Bruce/Batman's intelligence in Batman Begins. He's supposed to be a stellar detective, as well as an awesome fighter. Perhaps they'll expand on that more later... We can only hope.



Rob O.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 12:55 PM

BIGDAMNNOBODY


BATCARD

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 1:53 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


Always remembering that it's Batman Begins, key word there. He's just started to build his suit and arsenal, he hadn't even started to build his cave, and now he has to contend with rebuilding his house (one part I found stupid) Now I'm sure we'll begin to see him delve into the kind of research and studies the FBI and special units learn. Profiling, Law's and Justice, Science, Special Investigative Techniques. At least I HOPE they do. This is a man after all that with his brains can take down Supes, WW, and all the other supers. I'm not worried about that.

Now if they had gone with their original choice for Mr Freeze and wrote an actual script with a good cast and director Batman and Robin may have been watchable, as it is I just turn the station and see Arnie or Uma in those rediculous outfits. Brrrrrrrr.

Btw, best Freeze ever? The one in the cartoon. Played by Micheal Sarrizen (spelled wrong I know, someone please correct me) Freeze was a man who's wife was ill and he just wanted to cure her, but circumstances arose that he lost her and his humanity. In a way the protrayal of Dr Octavious in Spiderman 2 was closer to what Freeze is.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~

PETER:"FIRE!"

SYLAR:"ICE!"

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:06 PM

PEULSAR5

We sniff the air, we don't kiss the dirt.


One of my best friends had the best decriptions of Batman and Robin I've ever heard:

The 60's TV show with a budget.

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:13 PM

RIVER6213


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by RiveR6213:
I think that George Clooney made an excellent Bruce Wayne

There we go!

Intelligence from the peanut gallery Chrisisall



So? I didn't say George Clooney made a good Batman, I said he made a good Bruce Wayne.

-River

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 6:55 PM

JADEHAND


Quote:

Btw, best Freeze ever? The one in the cartoon. Played by Micheal Sarrizen (spelled wrong I know, someone please correct me) Freeze was a man who's wife was ill and he just wanted to cure her, but circumstances arose that he lost her and his humanity.


I agree. Loved the cartoon version. Really thought Patrick Stewart should have been Freeze.
Loking forward to Dark Knight. Good to see they have all the old cast back aside from the one. Glad she's not returning.

"I will stare from the window
At the shapes in the rain." -Beyond You - Afraid of Sunlight -Marillion
visit WWW.Marillion.com for a better way of life.



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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 7:29 PM

MISSTRESSAHARA


That's cause her mother ship came in. Sorry, just had to.

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
~*Peter* Peter*; power *re-peater*~
`@/
/Y
/_)

*Petrelli for President. Together we can soar.*
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
**********~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

HEROE'S IS MY CRACK!
~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~
PETER:"FIRE!"

SYLAR:"ICE!"

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Wednesday, May 16, 2007 8:43 PM

KAYNA

I love my captain


You know, I don't know much about the comics but I used to love the cartoon show and I'm always willing to watch the Adam West show when I stumble across it. As to the movies, I really like the Tim Burton films (although Returns was a little over bizzare) and can at least watch the Schumacher (too lazy to spell that correctly) ones. There are a few chuckles in both of them. By the way, I liked the holey rusted metal line in Batman Forever. I thought it was an amusing reference to the 60s show. I had issues with the characterizations (especially of the villans) who wouldn't?
But that's been gone over by others and no one has mentioned the set and costume design in those two "films". I'm a very visualy oriented person and I was just baffled by buildings shaped like enormous people and blacklit back allies. Sure, it looks cool but it doesn't make any sense!! Just why?

I though Batman Begins was a wonderful way to reboot the franchise in movie form and can't wait for more. I agree that I would like to see a little more of the highly intelligent detective in the next film though. Batman/Bruce Wayne's intelligenced is half of what always made him such a compelling character to me. And I have to admit that I am attracted to guys with a fair bit of brains. Face it ladies, aside from the tortured brooding stuff, Batman is the full package. Body, brains, and as a bonus, money.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Op: You're fighting a war you've already lost.
Mal: Yeah, well I'm known for that.

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:09 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by HeWhoKicksAlot:
They definitely down-played Bruce/Batman's intelligence in Batman Begins.


In Dark Knight he will no doubt be the seasoned detective we all expect to see.

I have faith Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:23 AM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Curious Causal, have you seen the Richard Donner Cut of Superman 2? (You have to skip the recycled turn-time-back ending they were forced to use, though, and it makes for a better film that way anyway)
It would have been the best superhero film in history had Donner been able to finish it his way back in '80, as it is, it's an intriguing look at what might have been.



No, but it's on my wishlist now, on the force of your recommendation.

But can you explain what you meant when you said, "have to skip the recycled turn-time-back ending they were forced to use, though, and it makes for a better film that way anyway"? Total confusion, here.

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:35 AM

CAUSAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by HeWhoKicksAlot:
They definitely down-played Bruce/Batman's intelligence in Batman Begins.


In Dark Knight he will no doubt be the seasoned detective we all expect to see.



Didn't know anything about Dark Knight. But here's the real hope for me, what would really salvage the Batman movies for me. Three things:

1) Detective work. As we've been saying, Batman is supposed to be the world's greatest detective. But in the movies detective work is incidental to his real job, which seems to be kicking bad guy ass. Sure, Batman can fight, but his real genius is in the detective work.

2) An emotional arc for Batman/Bruce Wayne. That's the great thing about the comics--Bruce/Batman is this tortured creature, so bent on exacting justice that he loses himself. But he can't allow that, because if he does, he'll lose his connection to his parents, which is his real motivation. So there's this extremely complex interplay between the Batman persona and the Bruce persona. The films have used romantic relationships to display that tension, but that's just cheap and tawdry, IMHO. Let's get some real emotional angst.

3) DON'T KILL THE BLOODY JOKER!! This is, by far, my biggest beef with the superhero movies. They almost always end with the main villain dying. But that's not the way it works in the comic. Batman doesn't kill people--are even allow them to die, if he can help it. Because he's not out for vengeance, but justice, and that means catching the baddie and handing him over to the authorities. Plus, bonus: the baddie can come back later. By the time they got to Batman and Robin, they were using third-string villains. If they hadn't killed off the Joker, they could have used him again.

Long story short: I'll go see Dark Knight, but I'm not going to get my hopes up.

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 3:48 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:

But can you explain what you meant when you said, "have to skip the recycled turn-time-back ending they were forced to use, though, and it makes for a better film that way anyway"? Total confusion, here.


When they came down to the wire on completing Superman, they realized that the completion of Superman 2 would not be a six month turnaround as planned. They felt the film (the first one) needed punch at the end, as the sequel would not be out for a year or more, so they re-shot some stuff, and had Lois die, and Superman turn back time a few minutes to bring her back.
The end of Superman 2 had Supes turn back time to make Lois forget, and reverse the damage done by the super-villains- this was to be re-written and changed to a more suitable ending by Donner and Tom Mankiwitz (sp?), but they were fired after completing the first, so the re-construction of Donner's version of Superman 2 had to go with the ending as originally intended, without any re-write- hence the 'turn time back yet again' ending. But in the flow of the film, if you just skip the two chapters that have that bogus but necessary time turn-back scene (As soon as you see Perry White in his bathroom about to brush his teeth, just press the next chapter button twice real fast), it plays like Superman and Lois will just have to deal with their problems like adults, with her knowing that Clark is Superman, she even tells him that she'll never divulge his secret, so it makes perfect sense.
I always hated that 'kiss of forgetfulness' crap, as well as the beams from fingers, and ridiculous 'fight' at the fortress in the end- thankfully, those and other 'yuck-yuck' scenes have been eliminated...only a dumb joke about finding a toilet in the fortress by Miss Teschmacher remains.
All in all, a real step up from the more somewhat more finished, but WAAAY stupider Lester version of Supe 2.

Couch critic Chrisisall

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:51 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by HeWhoKicksAlot:
They definitely down-played Bruce/Batman's intelligence in Batman Begins.


In Dark Knight he will no doubt be the seasoned detective we all expect to see.

I have faith Chrisisall



Bale has hinted that there would be a stronger detective element.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 4:54 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Causal:

But can you explain what you meant when you said, "have to skip the recycled turn-time-back ending they were forced to use, though, and it makes for a better film that way anyway"? Total confusion, here.


When they came down to the wire on completing Superman, they realized that the completion of Superman 2 would not be a six month turnaround as planned. They felt the film (the first one) needed punch at the end, as the sequel would not be out for a year or more, so they re-shot some stuff, and had Lois die, and Superman turn back time a few minutes to bring her back.
The end of Superman 2 had Supes turn back time to make Lois forget, and reverse the damage done by the super-villains- this was to be re-written and changed to a more suitable ending by Donner and Tom Mankiwitz (sp?), but they were fired after completing the first, so the re-construction of Donner's version of Superman 2 had to go with the ending as originally intended, without any re-write- hence the 'turn time back yet again' ending. But in the flow of the film, if you just skip the two chapters that have that bogus but necessary time turn-back scene (As soon as you see Perry White in his bathroom about to brush his teeth, just press the next chapter button twice real fast), it plays like Superman and Lois will just have to deal with their problems like adults, with her knowing that Clark is Superman, she even tells him that she'll never divulge his secret, so it makes perfect sense.
I always hated that 'kiss of forgetfulness' crap, as well as the beams from fingers, and ridiculous 'fight' at the fortress in the end- thankfully, those and other 'yuck-yuck' scenes have been eliminated...only a dumb joke about finding a toilet in the fortress by Miss Teschmacher remains.
All in all, a real step up from the more somewhat more finished, but WAAAY stupider Lester version of Supe 2.

Couch critic Chrisisall



I've also got a fan-made "Hybrid Cut" of the 2 versions of Superman 2. I uses all the good stuff from the Donner Cut (Brando and such), but keeps some of the Lester-directed scenes that were left out of the Donner Cut (to it's detriment, I feel). Some big stuff, like the "amnesia kiss ending", and some small, like the running oragnge juice gag, which didn't really pay-off in the Donner Cut.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Thursday, May 17, 2007 12:28 PM

DESKTOPHIPPIE


I like the movies well enough, although I didn't find any of them other than 'Batman Begins' all that good. It's been made worse since I started reading some Batman trades. Namely 'The Long Halloween' and 'Dark Victory'. Now those are good.

I did love the TV show when I was a kid. Especially the "sounds" on screen. Pow! Whap! Zonk! Hee hee hee!




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Saturday, May 19, 2007 7:52 PM

13


Batman and Robin was a blast, and NOT just because I was about eight or nine when I saw it! Although we all know that Clooney's greatest is Dusk 'Till Dawn, another fantastic film dripping with cheese. (at least in the second half.)






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