OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Doctor Who, Part Two

POSTED BY: DEEPGIRL187
UPDATED: Friday, October 5, 2007 16:29
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VIEWED: 3379
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Thursday, July 26, 2007 8:15 AM

DEEPGIRL187


The other thread's getting a bit lengthy, so I thought I'd start a new one.

Having just got into the show (I started watching a few weeks ago), I was wondering everyone's opinion on the companions. I know everyone has a favorite Doctor, what about the others? I've only had the chance to see two of them (three if you count the episode with Sarah Jane), so I don't know a lot about the previous ones.

Rose is definitely my favorite so far, but I' more than willing to give Martha a chance. She's very inquisitive, even moreso than Rose in some ways. Though I wonder how her relationship will evolve with the Doctor, especially since he's just lost Rose.

P.S. - And now that I think about it, the term companion really sounds weird, especially posting on a Firefly board.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:35 AM

FIZZIX


I'm fond of Rose, though Martha's surpassing her. If I had to choose just one, I'd have to say Jack, but I don't think the pair of them together for any real length of time without a foil character might not be good. ... Or maybe that was just Nine and Jack. Ten and Jack might get along okay on their own... I dunno, Grace was okay.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:30 AM

LWAVES


Well I can look back to the earlier Doctor's and their companions. I'd have to say Sarah Jane was the best. But I also liked Leela, Jamie and Nyssa.

For the new series I have to put Rose ahead of Martha. Martha was great but Rose had something about her, can't really pinpoint it. Maybe it was a certain type of energy that came through in Billie Piper's performance more than the character itself.

And talking companions I'd be interested to hear what people think it is that defines a Doctor's companion?
Is it someone who just helps the Doctor out?
Do they have to travel in the TARDIS?
Do they have to appear in more than one episode?
Do they have to appear in several episodes?
Any or all of the above?

My personal take is that they have to travel in the TARDIS and be in more than one episode/story (for the earlier Doctors an episode/story would be split into several parts - all the time, not just occasional two-parters).

So from the new series Adam (Dalek and The Long Game) would be a companion but Donna (The Runaway Bride) wouldn't be.



"If I hear voices and someone is really there, does that mean I'm going REALLY crazy?"

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:52 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Okay, I take it back; Jack was my favorite. I guess I don't count him as a companion as much because of Torchwood. He seems like more of a leading man to me.

I think the thing that makes someone a true companion is 1) the bond they have with the Doctor, and 2) how well they match his personality. So far, I think Rose has accomplished both those qualities the most. But, then, I haven't seen all of season three, nor have I seen the older episodes, so I guess I'm not the best judge.

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 9:31 PM

LESATHER


As far as what makes a 'companion', it has been about as loose as the shows own continuity.

Sara Kingdom (Jean Marsh) has been listed as a companion of the 1st Doctor (William Hartnell), but she only appeared in one story, the 12 part "Dalek Master Plan", and I am not sure if she ever actually traveled inside the TARDIS. She was also killed off before the end of that story.
The U.N.I.T. crew; the Brigadier, SGT Benton and CPT Yates all appeared in multiple stories, but were never actually counted as being the 3rd & 4th Doctor's (Jon Pertwee & Tom Baker) companions...only Liz Shaw, Jo Grant, Sarah Jane Smith and Harry Sullivan (and Liz Shaw never actually traveled anywhere in the TARDIS during her one season on the show).

As for the current series...Jack was clearly a 'companion' with the 9th Doctor even though he was not listed in the opening credits until his re-appearance in series three (I think this had more to do with John Barrowman's raising status as a star than anything else). Adam did (briefly) travel in the TARDIS and I would count him as one even though he wasn't in the opening credits either. As for Mickie, he became a full 'companion' at the end of "School Reunion" when he began his travels inside the TARDIS, again even though he was not listed in the opening credits. Jackie though was not a 'companion' because her travels in the TARDIS were basically a hop from one location to another within the same story, which any number of people have done in the past...one example being the Brigadier in "Mawdryn Undead".

"Jayne is a girl's name" - River

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Thursday, July 26, 2007 11:25 PM

HOBBLEIT


Quote:

Originally posted by Fizzix:
I'm fond of Rose, though Martha's surpassing her. If I had to choose just one, I'd have to say Jack, but I don't think the pair of them together for any real length of time without a foil character might not be good. ... Or maybe that was just Nine and Jack. Ten and Jack might get along okay on their own... I dunno, Grace was okay.



I love Jack. He's so great!

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Now with letters after my name.
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Saturday, August 18, 2007 5:17 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Have a question for you guys. Is there anyone here who had listened to the audio dramas or read the novels? I've been trying to find more information about the Time War, but what I read on Wikipedia is more than a little confusing. I know that The Doctor is in some way responsible for the destruction of Gallifrey, but it doesn't say exactly how. I thought the answer might be in the audio plays or the books (but then, it may never have been explained at all). Any help, please?

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"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."

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Sunday, August 19, 2007 9:30 AM

LWAVES


I don't really have an answer for this, just a theory on my own part.

I don't bother with the audio dramas or novels. Too many people get involved in the creation of it, and strays from the original vision. Not that some of it isn't good stuff.
So I can't really say if any of them cover the Time War. I do believe (if memory of the older TV series is correct) that it was never part of the earlier Doctors but has been brought in for the newer incarnations.

So my theory (in spoilers in case you don't want to know):

Select to view spoiler:



I think that the Time War must have occured during the 8th Doctors (Paul McGann) incarnation. When the 9th Doctor walks into Rose's flat in the forst episode he catches himself in the mirror and makes comments about how he looks, as if he's recently regenerated).
How the Time War began is open to debate but the Daleks always wanted to perfect time travel ever since they heard about it in Genesis Of The Daleks (Tom Baker, 4th Doctor), so I assume that they wanted complete control and the only way to do that was to be rid of the Time Lords.
Both sides would be immensely powerful and I imagine they would reach some kind of stalemate (as happens so often in this show). The Doctor then finds a way to destroy all the Daleks but only at a great cost. But he knew that the Daleks couldn't be allowed to survive, so he either made the choice and wiped everybody out, or he may have even been ordered too by the Time Lords. They are the type of race that would protect the universe, even if it meant their own death.
Either way when he meets the Dalek in episode 6 of the new season you can tell he is genuinely shocked and mortified. He acts like he has failed and all is lost. He really thought they had all been destroyed, despite them coming back again and again in the earlier seasons.



I have to say that it is a part of the new show that I like, it provides the character with some anguish and pain.
Part of me wants to know what happened and another part of me wants to never know, just get little hints, and then use my own ideas and imagination to fill in the blanks.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Sunday, August 26, 2007 2:50 PM

DEEPGIRL187


You know, I never thought I'd say this, but The Doctor is a right bastard.

SPOILERS AHOY, ME MATEY!

Let me explain. I just watched Human Nature. And yes, I know he's had his memory wiped. But to put Martha in that position (and in a time period very unfriendly to blacks) is not only unfair, it's almost callous. But then again, The Doctor has never been very accommodating to Martha, right from the very beginning. She deserves so much better, and even she can't see it.

*sigh*

Sorry about the rant, but I needed to get it off my chest.

****************************************************

"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."

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Sunday, August 26, 2007 3:00 PM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Have a question for you guys. Is there anyone here who had listened to the audio dramas or read the novels? I've been trying to find more information about the Time War, but what I read on Wikipedia is more than a little confusing. I know that The Doctor is in some way responsible for the destruction of Gallifrey, but it doesn't say exactly how. I thought the answer might be in the audio plays or the books (but then, it may never have been explained at all). Any help, please?

*****************************************************



heard almost all of them. they are VERY VERY much more rooted in the 'classic'/'old' dr who and are very good radio.

the time war hasn't played out yet - but was developed because of a need to link to the new tv show (which first made the idea 'canon') and some pesky books. truthfully, it's one of the weaker plot arcs.

the audios that veer away from the show are either the small 'unbound' series (a kind of bizarro world version) and (clearly marked) spin offs lead by other characters.

Paul mgann's dr and davisons have devloped very well and very truthfully through the audio.

sometimes it DOES get crowded without visuals - placing action gets a little confused - but this is pretty rare. Also, given varied writers some are better than others.

give them a try if you feel comfortable with an audio format - they are very popular in the uk - and a lot of the prod company have been head hunted now for the tv.

hope that helps - don't blame me, blame my mad dr who chum 'M'.


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Monday, August 27, 2007 12:39 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
You know, I never thought I'd say this, but The Doctor is a right bastard.



Yep, he sure is.
He is a genius (as he likes to tell us) and therefore would be thinking and operating on a level well above most people or beings. He doesn't always think about what they may be going through.

The earlier Doctor's had similar issues as well. The 4th Doctor left Mary Jane (as pointed out in the new series). The Fifth Doctor rarely gave Adric his due (although Adric did whinge a lot). The First Doctor wasn't always kind to those around him.
They all got annoyed with the stupid things that their companions would do, as it usually got them into danger.

Not making excuses for him.

Also I don't think he picked the time period, I thought he stated that the TARDIS did that, along with their cover stories? May be wrong tho'.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Monday, August 27, 2007 10:20 AM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Let me explain. I just watched Human Nature. And yes, I know he's had his memory wiped. But to put Martha in that position (and in a time period very unfriendly to blacks) is not only unfair, it's almost callous.



The "emergency" procedure he's using is clearly semi-automatic and only designed for one. If you re-watch the episode you'll see where he explains to her that the TARDIS will spin him a cover story but she'll have to improvise.

Quote:


But then again, The Doctor has never been very accommodating to Martha, right from the very beginning. She deserves so much better, and even she can't see it.



Hmm. Watch on... he's really going to make your blood boil in part 2 :-)

I think that's been quite a deliberate plot-line in the new series (one that was just starting to arise in the old series when it was axed). The Doctor has a strong set of personal principles, which are almost - but not quite - aligned with human morality. He's certainly useless at the less grandiose end of human emotions and relationships. Although he likes and respects humans his instincts will always be telling him that they are puny, short-lived, inferior creatures. Certainly the idea of someone who is 880 years his junior and a different species as a - well, lets say "life partner" - is so far from his mind that it doesn't occur to him that - from their POV - he's eligible and (to their senses) Human and that they might expect some sort of exclusive relationship. (I mean, he tried to pick up Mme Pompadour under Rose's nose in series 2).

Note that things only got really serious with Rose after they briefly meet as "equals" in "Parting of the Ways".

Oh, and I think it was established in the old series that the rest of Time Lords were not necessarily all particularly nice people.


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Monday, September 3, 2007 1:21 PM

DRU


From classic Doctor Who it would be Leela, Nyssa, Susan, K-9 and Tegan. I haven't seen much of the new series of Doctor Who, but so far I would say Captain Jack and Rose.

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Monday, September 3, 2007 1:27 PM

WYTCHCROFT


old who: Sarah Jane. Romana II

new who: captain jack, sarah jane, SALLY SPARROW

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Wednesday, September 5, 2007 6:37 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Just watched The Runaway Bride, finally. Since BBC and Sci-Fi aren't kind enough to air it again, I resorted to other methods. Not bad, but I liked The Christmas Invasion better.

You know, I can stand Catherine Tate for an episode, but the entire next series? Why, oh why could they have not found someone else? My God, that woman is annoying. At least Freema Agyeman will be on part of the time.

*****************************************************

"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."

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Friday, September 7, 2007 3:07 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by ImNotHere:
Hmm. Watch on... he's really going to make your blood boil in part 2 :-)



That evil, rotten bastard. Yeah, so you were right.

I swear, it's like Martha doesn't even exist. Would someone, anyone, get a freakin' clue? Not only does Martha how horrible he's being, I'm not sure he recognizes it (or he doesn't care, which is even more of a possibility).

You know, this reminds me of Buffy. Towards the end, I pretty much despised her character, and right now, it's the same with The Doctor. Thank God Jack will be here in a few episodes, or else I'd have trouble finishing the season.

Moving away from the rantyness, Torchwood starts tomorrow. Yay!!!

***************************************************

"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."

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Friday, September 7, 2007 11:40 PM

EMMARIGBY


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:

You know, this reminds me of Buffy. Towards the end, I pretty much despised her character, and right now, it's the same with The Doctor. Thank God Jack will be here in a few episodes, or else I'd have trouble finishing the season.



Hay, a thread on the board of my favorite show of all time, talking about my second favorite! How come I've not posted more?!

I know where you're coming from with your rant here but the thing is I recognise all of these faults in the character and absolutely adore him anyway (I'm smitten worse than Martha!) I loved Imnohere's summary. It's true he does think he's better than eveyone else, because, tlet's face it, he is! In any other character that arrogance would be teeth grittingly annoying but sadly I am so far gone that I would be happy to be considered his pet!

I also have a deep crush on House. Maybe this reveals a deep character flaw in myself that I am attracted to super confident, slightly callous genii!

___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Saturday, September 8, 2007 5:44 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Forgive the rantyness; I'd just finished "Family Of Blood", and was more than a little heated. It's not that I hate The Doctor, he can just be so infuriating sometimes. Whereas someone like House recognizes he faults (he just doesn't care ), The Doctor seems to think he can't really be wrong. What he could really use is a reality check. Last of the Time Lords (well, kinda) or no, he still has to live in this universe just like anyone else. And sometimes that means accepting when you're wrong, and learning humility.

*****************************************************

"But I neeeeed tacos! I need them or I will explode! That happens to me sometimes."

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Saturday, September 8, 2007 7:02 AM

IMNOTHERE


Quote:

The Doctor seems to think he can't really be wrong. What he could really use is a reality check.


Well, he got well and truly told at the end of "Family of Blood"... and as for Martha, well,

Select to view spoiler:



She might just wake up and smell the coffee...



I think that's the big hope for Catherine Tate - there's a lot of skepticism, but a spell with a companion who doesn't desperately want his babies might do him good (if its well written).

I'm prepared to give her a chance - I'm not a huge fan of her comedy, but she's clearly not a one-trick pony like Peter Kay and other cases of "stuntcasting". The Christmas episode was a bit naff anyway (nothing wrong with a bit of pantomime at xmas). Remember the "oh god its Bonnie Langford all over again" reactions when Billie Piper was announced"...

They still need to bring back Sally Sparrow though!











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Sunday, September 9, 2007 12:53 AM

EMMARIGBY


Yes, Sally Sparrow was indeed, HOT!

I have managed to intrigue a friend of mine who is not a fan into watching the next Christmas episode with the promise of Kylie Minogue! Can't wait for that one!

Also VERY excited about the gossip I've picked up in the last Who Magazine about season 2 of Torchwood! Brace yourself!

Select to view spoiler:



Guess who's going to be appearing alongside our beloved Captain Jack? James Masters! Our beloved Spike himself, but with brown hair! It's true, two of the sexiest people on the planet on one show. I may explode from the excitement! Don't know if it's a one off or a permanent feature yet. Anyone else heard?



If that is old news to anyone please forgive my excitement but I was thrilled!

___________________
Hissssssssss!

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Sunday, September 9, 2007 2:32 AM

IMNOTHERE


The ep. "The Girl in the Fireplace" recently won a Hugo award (one of the big two awards in the SF world), by the way:

http://www.thehugoawards.org/index.php?page_id=127

(Before you ask, "Blink" was too new for this year's award - next year maybe)


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Friday, September 14, 2007 3:07 PM

DEEPGIRL187


*squee*

Besides "Dalek", "Blink" was probably the coolest Doctor Who episode I've seen. I mean, the execution, the originality of the the story...that was truly kick-a.

And definitely agreed here, Sally would make such a cool companion (*grumble* much better than Catherine Tate *grumble*).

*****************************************************



"Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something in return. To obtain, something of equal value must be lost. That is alchemy's first law of Equivalent Exchange. In those days, we really believed that to be the world's one, and only truth."

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 1:53 PM

LESATHER


I agree that "Blink" is probably the best story of the latest season (and it is one of my favourites out of the entire series, including 'classic' series stories).

"Jayne is a girl's name" - River

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Saturday, September 15, 2007 3:21 PM

MUDKICKER


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I know that The Doctor is in some way responsible for the destruction of Gallifrey, but it doesn't say exactly how. I thought the answer might be in the audio plays or the books (but then, it may never have been explained at all). Any help, please?



Technically none of this is a spoiler, since it can be found during the Chris Eccleston Doctor Who Series One...

I saw a Doctor Who Confidential which, for those who are familiar, is a behind the scenes discussion with the actors, writers and producers of the show. I'm not sure which epi it explains this, but Chris Eccleston stated that the Doctor was given an opportunity to destroy the Daleks (likely as the 8th Doctor incarnation, though not shown on-screen) which in turn would cause the destruction of Gallifrey and all the Time Lords, not including himself. I would have to assume that upon his survival, the 8th Doctor (Paul McGann) regenerated as the 9th Doctor (Chris Eccleston), explaining his look into the mirror and picking apart his new regenerated facial features (ala Tom Baker).

Since this has been hinted about on screen, there is time for this story to be expounded upon in the future, thus explaining the sense of depression that the 9th and now 10th Doctors have shown on-screen. He is the last of the Time Lords, the man that single-handedly defeated the Daleks to end the Time War at the cost of his own people's sacrificial destruction.

I would love to see the return of Paul McGann and Chris Eccleston to Doctor Who for an on screen exposition of these events, but thus far this is all the information that's been given.

As far as my favorite Companion, I grew up watching the 4th Doctor, Tom Baker, and am torn between Sara Jane and Rose Tyler of the new series. Given that David Tennant is the newest Doctor, I am actually thinking my favorite Doctor is now he... with Tom Baker a close tie or second.

I'm just sooooooo torn!! :D

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Sunday, September 16, 2007 9:39 AM

MUDKICKER


** BUMP! **

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Friday, October 5, 2007 4:05 PM

DEEPGIRL187


So I'm thinking "deus ex machina" doesn't even begin to cover it.

DW isn't usually so heavy-handed. I'm guessing Uncle Rusty and the gang ran out of ideas. On the other hand, I loved the final scene with Tennant and Simm. You have to be pretty damn compassionate to cry over your own enemy. Course, we know he's not really dead.

*sigh*

Until next year. I suppose I'll content myself with music videos and Torchwood for the time being.

*****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Friday, October 5, 2007 4:29 PM

VETERAN

Don't squat with your spurs on.



After watching the season finale,

Select to view spoiler:


Marth decided to return home and begin her career as a MD.


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