OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Heroes 2.1 (or wherever...)

POSTED BY: DEEPGIRL187
UPDATED: Tuesday, December 4, 2007 11:57
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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:13 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

Chalk it up to poor editing at the least

Next time you watch it, blink.

Low-tek editing Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:21 AM

WHODIED


*HOPEFUL SPOILER*

In order to save the world, Hiro goes back in time to that night in New York, where he single-handedly fixes that lame season one finale.




--WhoDied


_______________________

BUFFY ANNE SUMMERS
1981-2001
BELOVED SISTER
DEVOTED FRIEND
SHE SAVED THE WORLD
A LOT



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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:
that lame season one finale.

Boyo, are ye daft? That was gold it was.

You must be thinking of another show Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:32 AM

SINGATE


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Wasn't this episode also supposed to explain what happened with Sylar? There was nothing on him until the story shifted back to the present.





Well we didn't get anything on Sylar, but we did get back story on Maya and Alejandro that filled in some of the blanks. That's something I guess.



It's actually more than something. Chalk this one up to me being a little slow during the wee hours. The writers did show us what happened to Sylar via Peter's experience during his "rehabilitation". I think it is safe to assume Sylar went through the same treatment after Hiro stabbed him. Although his was most likely kept unconcious via heavy sedatives. If they administered the same drugs to suppress his abilities and they wear off at the same rate they did with Peter it will only be a matter of time before his powers reappear. I figure he killed Candace approximately 2 days ago in TV time so that leaves him somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 days before he is back to his old lovable self. I'm still trying to figure out why they kept him alive in the first place. Even if it was as a guinea pig, why move him from a secure state of the art facility to a remote shack with only Candace as guard?

Another Company boo-boo is the thing about using Claire's blood as a cure for the virus. All this time they had Adam locked away and it never occured to them to keep a sample of his blood. Not necessarily as a failsafe for this research but because the healing properties alone are worth looking into.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:12 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by WhoDied:
that lame season one finale.

Boyo, are ye daft? That was gold it was.




Er... no. I felt it was pretty anti-climatic. I was very much dissapointed by the finale.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:44 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Another Company boo-boo is the thing about using Claire's blood as a cure for the virus. All this time they had Adam locked away and it never occured to them to keep a sample of his blood. Not necessarily as a failsafe for this research but because the healing properties alone are worth looking into.



Maybe they did. Just need her as the new source. I am sure in research some was lost or ruined. ..they also seemed to need Suresh for his expertise as well as his blood. Before Suresh arrived some lacky scientist could have ruined it or Suresh himself destroyed the majority of it by throwing the chair in the fridge of vials or the scientist revolted and destroyed his research much like Suresh originally wanted to … Or…

Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
That Elle is a twisted little mynx. Granted she had a difficult upbringing(if we assume she told the truth) but it is hard to excuse her sadistic and domineering behavior.



Maybe she’s not telling the truth. Didn’t she call Bob daddy on the phone when she was in Ireland? Could be, or just a play name since he is all she knows. Or Bob is her father and she was actually at the Co. the whole time.


DL gettin shot before he had time to phase seems just as unlikely as him being able to phase in the first place.

So... Is Adam gonna use Peter's time travel to right what happened to him with Hiro in Japan? ...or travel to a more recent past. ...or just kick ace in the present.

Or is that how he got to Japan in the first place? Seems more likely that he truly did exist back then due to his age.

Ahhhhhhhhhh. time travel.

So who to trust: Bob or Adam? The part I am having trouble with is the Haitian. K, So he wiped Peter and sent him off in the container. I am assuming against the will of Bob, who then injects the Haitian with the virus. A strain of the virus that CAN be cured by Shuresh's blood. So, did the Haitian plan this with Horned-Rimmed all along. If so, what plans do Horned-Rimmed and he have for Peter. Was it only to deny the Co. a powerful asset? Or do they plan to use him?



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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 8:58 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:
The part I am having trouble with is the Haitian. K, So he wiped Peter and sent him off in the container. I am assuming against the will of Bob, who then injects the Haitian with the virus.

He went home, expecting to die for his sins, looks to me like.

(?)Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:12 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:
The part I am having trouble with is the Haitian. K, So he wiped Peter and sent him off in the container. I am assuming against the will of Bob, who then injects the Haitian with the virus.

He went home, expecting to die for his sins, looks to me like.

(?)Chrisisall



Yeah, I guess I am wondering if they (HRG and Haitian) had a master plan.

Also, (I forgot) this was prolly the natural version of the virus, which is why Suresh's blood worked. So, the Haitian left on his own without seeing Bob at all. ...or if he did, Bob is prolly a lil fuzzy on that meeting.







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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:27 AM

CHRISISALL


Just came across this:
http://www.tvsquad.com/2007/11/07/season-2-of-heroes-could-end-early-i
f-the-strike-continues
/

Kring is cool. I'd hate to be left hanging almost a year...

Give the writers what they want already Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:50 AM

CYBERSNARK


DL wasn't paying attention when the thug came for him.

(1) His turn as a superhero (saving the kid from the fire) made him overconfident (note how he closed his eyes and just sighed when the guy came at him).

(2) There was a bouncer at the door. There aren't supposed to be guns inside a club like that, and DL got caught flat-footed.

(3) It was a crowded club. DL lets the bullet go through him, someone else gets shot up.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:55 AM

CHRISISALL


Good points, CS.

What Cybersnark Said tm Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:49 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
DL wasn't paying attention when the thug came for him.

(1) His turn as a superhero (saving the kid from the fire) made him overconfident (note how he closed his eyes and just sighed when the guy came at him).

(2) There was a bouncer at the door. There aren't supposed to be guns inside a club like that, and DL got caught flat-footed.

(3) It was a crowded club. DL lets the bullet go through him, someone else gets shot up.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.



Still disagree, for the most part.

1. Overconfident - I'll grant. But the guy didn't fire from the hip. He put the gun against DL, then paused. That should be more than enough time for a reaction that has been instantaneous every other time.

2. Maybe.... But that still doesn't address why, with a gun held against his gut, he didn't phase.

3. As far as it was shown, there was no-one standing directly behind DL, and being in a stairwell as they were, the bullet would have hit the steps after only a few feet.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:27 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
True, I forgot that. But she (and the writers) made a point of doing so from far away, so he wouldn't see it coming. She didn't put the gun against his gut and look him in the eye before firing.

I don’t see that it matters. The point is that it had already been established that DL must consciously enact a physical condition in which he can phase through objects or objects can phase through him. He’s vulnerable to fast moving objects or surprises. It’s not hard to imagine that some dude could walk up to him and blow him away, especially in a crowed place where no one expects that to happen. I think the writers did a good job.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:52 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
True, I forgot that. But she (and the writers) made a point of doing so from far away, so he wouldn't see it coming. She didn't put the gun against his gut and look him in the eye before firing.

I don’t see that it matters. The point is that it had already been established that DL must consciously enact a physical condition in which he can phase through objects or objects can phase through him. He’s vulnerable to fast moving objects or surprises. It’s not hard to imagine that some dude could walk up to him and blow him away, especially in a crowed place where no one expects that to happen. I think the writers did a good job.




I just can't agree, not when we had just seen him phase to avoid a punch that came with less warning. Velocity has never been shown to have any effect, other than that fast things (such as Nikki's shot) hit him before he can think of phaseing. But in this case, the guy took longer to pull the trigger than to take a swing. The logic just doesn't hold up.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:52 PM

STORYMARK


double...

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:57 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
But in this case, the guy took longer to pull the trigger than to take a swing. The logic just doesn't hold up.


You're applying logic to Humans, Story?

I'm afraid we must revoke you Kohlinear pendant...

The Vulcan Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 7:03 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
I just can't agree, not when we had just seen him phase to avoid a punch that came with less warning. Velocity has never been shown to have any effect, other than that fast things (such as Nikki's shot) hit him before he can think of phaseing. But in this case, the guy took longer to pull the trigger than to take a swing. The logic just doesn't hold up.

Actually the logic is fine. You said it yourself. He has to think about phasing in order for it to work. The writers have already made that case. The story the writers wanted to tell was one in which he dies, which I think is a far more compelling story then one in which he narrowing misses every danger thrown at him. In a story in which we have a character who is essentially god with amnesia, I find it refreshing that DL’s ability demonstrated some simple human weakness, such as not paying attention when he should have. I’m not saying that you have to like that he died, although frankly I do. There are too many main characters already and some of them have got to go, especially if they plan on adding more mid-season.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 2:46 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
It's actually more than something. Chalk this one up to me being a little slow during the wee hours. The writers did show us what happened to Sylar via Peter's experience during his "rehabilitation". I think it is safe to assume Sylar went through the same treatment after Hiro stabbed him. Although his was most likely kept unconcious via heavy sedatives. If they administered the same drugs to suppress his abilities and they wear off at the same rate they did with Peter it will only be a matter of time before his powers reappear. I figure he killed Candace approximately 2 days ago in TV time so that leaves him somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 days before he is back to his old lovable self. I'm still trying to figure out why they kept him alive in the first place. Even if it was as a guinea pig, why move him from a secure state of the art facility to a remote shack with only Candace as guard?





That was my guess. No doubt the Company supressed Sylar's powers with drugs just as they did Peter. Good call on how much time he has until his powers start surfacing again. Should be just in time for him to kill Alejandro and Maya before they can get to Mohinder or the Company.

As for why they left Sylar alive, it's the same reason all over confident evil cabals leave dangerous individuals alive; they want to control him. These fools think they can break Sylar and that they will somehow convince or coerce him into becoming an operative for them like Elle or the others we have seen working for them. Sure would be something to see him turned loose on the Company for what they did to him.



Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Another Company boo-boo is the thing about using Claire's blood as a cure for the virus. All this time they had Adam locked away and it never occured to them to keep a sample of his blood. Not necessarily as a failsafe for this research but because the healing properties alone are worth looking into.





I didn't get that either. Why would they not have Adam's blood stored somewhere? Seems if they have had him for 30 years as he claims then they would have had plenty of time to run tests and collect samples. His blood cured Nathan's horrible burns in a matter of minutes so no doubt the Company would know how important Adam would be.

That led me to believe that Adam's escape was a bit too easy. Why was he not guarded better? Whey did they only send Elle and the Haitian after Peter and Adam? Shouldn't there have been squads of men with tranq guns sent to capture them? They don't seem to have a limited budget, so why not send more people after them?

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Officer / X.O. Echo Company



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html


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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:03 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


Quote:

Originally posted by BrownCoat1:
Quote:

Originally posted by singate:
Another Company boo-boo is the thing about using Claire's blood as a cure for the virus. All this time they had Adam locked away and it never occured to them to keep a sample of his blood. Not necessarily as a failsafe for this research but because the healing properties alone are worth looking into.




I didn't get that either. Why would they not have Adam's blood stored somewhere? Seems if they have had him for 30 years as he claims then they would have had plenty of time to run tests and collect samples. His blood cured Nathan's horrible burns in a matter of minutes so no doubt the Company would know how important Adam would be.

That led me to believe that Adam's escape was a bit too easy. Why was he not guarded better? Whey did they only send Elle and the Haitian after Peter and Adam? Shouldn't there have been squads of men with tranq guns sent to capture them? They don't seem to have a limited budget, so why not send more people after them?



Are these acceptable possibilities?

Maybe they did. Just need her as the new source. I am sure in research some was lost or ruined. ..they also seemed to need Suresh for his expertise as well as his blood. Before Suresh arrived some lacky scientist could have ruined it or Suresh himself destroyed the majority of it by throwing the chair in the fridge of vials or the scientist revolted and destroyed his research much like Suresh originally wanted to … Or… Adam and Peter escaped before Suresh arrived so, a lot could have happened.

I do agree that Adam could have been let go on purpose for some unknown Co. plan. I mean, putting them right beside each other in cells where they could talk.

However, we are not certain that Claire' powers are EXACTLY the same as Adam's. For some time we have been told that Suresh's blood was the only cure for the virus. Is Adam's blood cabable of curing the virus; new or old strain? Seems they wouldn't have needed Suresh if so. Being that they needed Suresh's Scientific expertise as well. They guys calling the shots may just not have known what they needed.







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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:59 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


Story, I am with you. His death was not logical. Yes, I can see the need for him to die, for one reason or another, but the way that they went about it was a bit silly.

As for Adam and Peter escaping too easily, that could go either way. I can see it being planned, though the way that Bob is acting in the present (in front of Mohinder, at least) fits with the story of it not being planned.



~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB


It's unfortunate what we find pleasing to the touch and pleasing to the eye is seldom the same.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:07 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Actually the logic is fine. You said it yourself. He has to think about phasing in order for it to work. The writers have already made that case. The story the writers wanted to tell was one in which he dies, which I think is a far more compelling story then one in which he narrowing misses every danger thrown at him.



The logic doesn't work because we had just seen him avoid an attack with even less time to think or respond. You keep ignoring that bit.

Sure, I see that they needed him to die, but it's lazy writing for his power to just inconveniently not kick in just because they need to get rid of him. If they wanted him to get shot and die, they had that opprotunity already. He had a reason to take the bullet from Linderman - they could have just carried that through to conclusion. Or they could have come up with a way to kill him that was consistant with what was already presented.

Instead, they had his power not work simply for story convenience, which is poor writing. Plus, it's repetitive (that being the 3rd time he was shot in 5 months of story-line), which makes it feel even more lazy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:26 AM

MSB


Hey I'm just sad he's gone... I do think he was focused on the possibility of attack when he was hit( most guys interrupting a couple dancing to pull the girl away expect physical attack of some kind) and he likely didn't think the guy would really pull the trigger right there in front of tons of witnesses ( who does that anyway) over a girl walking away. So he probably didn't realize until too late that the man was pulling the trigger. It's not that he didn't see the danger, it's that he didn't believe the threat was credible. He probably thought he was going to have to talk the guy down or something... of course this is jut my opinion and all.

____________________________________________

Nope, don't use cologne. Women I date think the smell of sawdust is sexy. That's probably why I don't... date many women.- Gibbs
You start talking about capes and tights and I'm out of here. -Ando Masahashi

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:34 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
The logic doesn't work because we had just seen him avoid an attack with even less time to think or respond. You keep ignoring that bit.

I realize that you don’t like the way this played out, but you can’t call it illogical. What you’re claiming is actually illogical. It’s a false cause fallacy. You claim that because he had previously phased a punch that he must therefore phase a gunshot, but that’s illogical, because the writers already made the case that if he’s caught off guard he can get shot. I think the writers did a good job with this. Now granted, it could use some fleshing out to make things more clear, but that’s not a problem with the events per se - that’s a problem with the overloaded cast. There are too many stories to tell in 45 minutes.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:45 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
The logic doesn't work because we had just seen him avoid an attack with even less time to think or respond. You keep ignoring that bit.

I realize that you don’t like the way this played out, but you can’t call it illogical. What you’re claiming is actually illogical. It’s a false cause fallacy. You claim that because he had previously phased a punch that he must therefore phase a gunshot, but that’s illogical, because the writers already made the case that if he’s caught off guard he can get shot. I think the writers did a good job with this. Now granted, it could use some fleshing out to make things more clear, but that’s not a problem with the events per se - that’s a problem with the overloaded cast. There are too many stories to tell in 45 minutes.



It's a fallacy that because he is able to do something once, he should be able to do it again 5 mintes later?

Explain to me then, how he was caught off-guard by a guy walking up, making eye contact, scowling at him, pulling a gun and (I keep having to repeat this) reaching out to put it against DL, pausing, and then firing(as opposed to firing instantly, in which case I could buy his being surprised), and yet not caught off guard by the punch thrown, from behind Nikki, in a darkened room, with many more people around, when DL's attention was on Nikki?

Sorry, but throw down whatever debat-team jargon you like - it just doesn't hold to the story logic as it had already been established. Nothing you've said really supports the logic of events as presented.

I even re-watched it last night, to see if it was plausible. Bad writing, and bad editing. Nothing I see justifies it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:52 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by MSB:
Hey I'm just sad he's gone... I do think he was focused on the possibility of attack when he was hit( most guys interrupting a couple dancing to pull the girl away expect physical attack of some kind) and he likely didn't think the guy would really pull the trigger right there in front of tons of witnesses ( who does that anyway) over a girl walking away. So he probably didn't realize until too late that the man was pulling the trigger. It's not that he didn't see the danger, it's that he didn't believe the threat was credible. He probably thought he was going to have to talk the guy down or something... of course this is jut my opinion and all.

____________________________________________

Nope, don't use cologne. Women I date think the smell of sawdust is sexy. That's probably why I don't... date many women.- Gibbs
You start talking about capes and tights and I'm out of here. -Ando Masahashi



That doesn't really fly for me, either. Even if he didn't really think the guy would pull the trigger - how stupid would he have to be to base his life on it?

On a show of this nature, there are plenty of ways to kill someone. Hell, if the guy had just come up behind DL, there would be no problem. But as it stands, I felt it was extremely sloppy.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:54 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
It's a fallacy that because he is able to do something once, he should be able to do it again 5 mintes later?

It‘s a fallacy to assume that he necessarily should, yes. You’re applying a lot of assumptions here. I’m not saying that the scene couldn’t have been expounded on, and you don’t have to like the way it played out, but I don't think you can call it illogical, cause it’s not.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:00 PM

MISTERG


Another Heroes thread? Man, I've got a buncha catchup reading to do.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:02 PM

STORYMARK


Okay, I'll drop the illogical (though I still think it violates story logic - perhaps not debate logic, but story logic - definitly), and just stick with poorly written.

If it works for you, cool. But I found it very, very sloppy, in an otherwise solid episode.


"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:09 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:

I even re-watched it last night, to see if it was plausible. Bad writing, and bad editing. Nothing I see justifies it.


I re-watched it last night too- and my feeling is that maybe he was phasing his head again for another punch or even bullet, but the attack came lower than expected- he didn't look completely unaware, just un-threatened...

Could that be it? Chrisisall
Edit: but I would have edited it quicker anyway- I think they were trying to extend it as if to make a point that this was his last living moment.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:10 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, I'll drop the illogical (though I still think it violates story logic - perhaps not debate logic, but story logic - definitly), and just stick with poorly written.

If it works for you, cool. But I found it very, very sloppy, in an otherwise solid episode.

There are too many characters, and they can’t pay the kind of attention that every scene deserves when they’ve got five or six main character, each with different storylines. They tend to abbreviate scenes. This is a criticism. One that I’ve made in the past. But you’re making the assumption that DL saw it coming, except there’s nothing in the scene that suggest that, and you can’t extrapolate from previous phasing events. It would have been nice if there were a scene or two that cleared up exactly what DL was thinking or doing at the time, but I think the writers did a good job with what they could afford to put in.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:17 PM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Okay, I'll drop the illogical (though I still think it violates story logic - perhaps not debate logic, but story logic - definitly), and just stick with poorly written.

If it works for you, cool. But I found it very, very sloppy, in an otherwise solid episode.

There are too many characters, and they can’t pay the kind of attention that every scene deserves when they’ve got five or six main character, each with different storylines. They tend to abbreviate scenes. This is a criticism. One that I’ve made in the past. But you’re making the assumption that DL saw it coming, except there’s nothing in the scene that suggest that, and you can’t extrapolate from previous phasing events. It would have been nice if there were a scene or two that cleared up exactly what DL was thinking or doing at the time, but I think the writers did a good job with what they could afford to put in.




A lot of characters doesn't excuse poor writing. As I said before, having the guy come up behind him would have served the same story purpose (killing DL), in the exact same ammount of time (if not less) - but would have stayed true to the story logic. So having a large cast really has zero bearing in this instance.

That was a choice made by the writers - a bad one I feel - and it had nothing to do with cast size, budget or anything else.

Quote:

But you’re making the assumption that DL saw it coming, except there’s nothing in the scene that suggest that,


You mean, except for the looking right at him? If they guy had fired as soon as the gun was out - I might buy it. But that's not how it happened.

One other quick thing that bothered me about the scene - and it's totally nit-picky.... but when he was shot, DL was on Nikki's left side. But the blood splattered across the right side of her face. It's not a difficult effect to pull off correctly, so I was really baffled that it would be executed so poorly.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Monday, November 19, 2007 5:09 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Mohinder's officially on my shit-list. I tried, but until he gets his head out of his ass, he just another dupe.

And for that matter, Matt is as well, for the time being. I hope they don't turn him evil. But on the other hand, they have to do something in regards to character development.

Was I the only one maniacally cheering when Elle shocked herself? Just wondering.

So West didn't turn out to be so bad after all. I'm still not a big fan of his, but he looks to have potential.

Claire's blood can bring back the dead. Pretty shiny. That being said, I wonder what The Company has in store for Noah. Nothing good, as usual.

*sigh* Two more episodes to go. With any luck, the guild and the producers will make some headway when talks resume on Thursday.

ETA: Does the whole Hiro-meeting-his-past-self give anyone else pause? I'm not an expert on time-travel, but wouldn't that invoke some kind of paradox?

***************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Monday, November 19, 2007 5:25 PM

WILDBILL


I've given up on Heroes. It's just going nowhere.

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Monday, November 19, 2007 8:01 PM

SINGATE


Mohinder may be a dupe but I'm impressed that he actually had the balls to pull the trigger. Noah's "death" was wonderfully filmed. For a few seconds I found myself applauding the writers for killing a vital character...then I remembered that pint of Claire's blood. I was not surprised at all to see him come back from the dead, the whole thing was built on Adam's revival of Nathan. As to what the Company wants from Noah I haven't a clue.

I enjoy seeing Matt skirt the dark side. This is another fine example of how a seemingly good person can become drunk with power. At the end of his interrogation I thought he would back down, guess I was wrong.

For me the scenes between Hiro and his father stole the show. It was great how Hiro changed his opinion about his father's decision by teaching his younger self the very same lesson. Not sure about the paradox issue. If past Hiro was young enough he may not have remembered the meeting, also he had other things on his mind with the death of his mother. Since nothing was actually changed I don't imagine a paradox would occur. Damn time travel!

It looks like Hiro isn't thrilled by the idea of Peter and Adam joining forces. And can things get any worse for Mohinder? I guess so as his old partner steps back into his life. I wonder if his abilities will have returned or if he's going to force Mohinder into curing him.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, November 19, 2007 9:17 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Damnit, it sounds like I missed a really good Heroes. I’ll have to itune it.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:04 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I agree about the filming part, singate. That was shot extremely well. Though I am glad Noah isn't dead. Not quite ready for his character to be gone yet.

I had a thought as I was waking up this morning. We all immediately assumed Noah was taken by The Company, but what if Adam is the one who has him? Food for thought, anyway.

*****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:17 AM

BROWNCOAT1

May have been the losing side. Still not convinced it was the wrong one.


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Mohinder's officially on my shit-list. I tried, but until he gets his head out of his ass, he just another dupe.




Totally agree with you. When Noah had him on his knees and was about to shoot him I was cheering him on. I want Mohinder dead for his duplicity and his complete ignorance. He was going to deliver Claire and the whole Bennett family right into the Company's hands.



Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
And for that matter, Matt is as well, for the time being. I hope they don't turn him evil. But on the other hand, they have to do something in regards to character development.





Did Matt yank that woman's name out of Ma Perelli's head? Her name being present on the picture would certainly seem to indicate that. His use of his influence ability (for lack of a better phrase) does seem a bit dark. Could be Mrs Perelli was right in that using it might make Matt very much like his father. Hopefully he will turn away from that path. As you said, perhaps it is just a character development tool.



Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Was I the only one maniacally cheering when Elle shocked herself? Just wondering.





No, you weren't. I was so hoping she would fry herself. Than again I was cheering when Noah shot her at the end, though I wish it had been right through the forehead and not the arm.



Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
So West didn't turn out to be so bad after all. I'm still not a big fan of his, but he looks to have potential.





He has potential, but I am still not sold on him. He doesn't fly very fast and he needs to learn straight up makes you an easy target. He seems to have gotten over his fear and hatred of Noah pretty quick too. Granted it was for Claire's sake, but shouldn't he still have issues with Noah since he has been carrying them around so long?



Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
Claire's blood can bring back the dead. Pretty shiny. That being said, I wonder what The Company has in store for Noah. Nothing good, as usual.





Makes sense her blood can bring back the dead. We have seen both her and Adam return from the dead and it is due to the cellular regeneration they possess. We saw how Adam's blood healed Nathan's severe burns and scars. No reason to believe it wouldn't bring back the dead so long cellular degradation had not gone too far.

I am thinking that Noah is in for trouble being in the Company's care. Of course it could be a plot device to get Noah to continue to expose the Company's secrets to Elle as well as her missing past. Seems the Haitian pulled some of her memories too. I don't think dear old dad or the Company will fare too well if Elle goes ballistic over being used and screwed with by them.



Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
*sigh* Two more episodes to go. With any luck, the guild and the producers will make some headway when talks resume on Thursday.

ETA: Does the whole Hiro-meeting-his-past-self give anyone else pause? I'm not an expert on time-travel, but wouldn't that invoke some kind of paradox?






I sure hope the hiatus isn't too long.

I was wondering about the Hiro present meeting himself as a child too. Not sure about a paradox or not, just seemed wierd.

And now that Hiro knows it was Adam/Takezo Kensei that killed his father seems he will be going a little immortal man hunt next couple of episodes.

__________________________________________
Holding the line since December '02!



Richmond, VA & surrounding area Firefly Fans:

http://www.richmondbrowncoats.org

Color Officer / X.O. Echo Company



http://76thbattalion.homestead.com/index.html


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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:19 AM

STORYMARK


Great episode. One of the best this season. It bugs me that Mohinder has become such douchebag lately, as he was my favorite character last season. But overall, very good.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:44 AM

MISTERG


Great ep.

The whole Mohinder thing made me crazy though. It seems an awfully big character and philosophical change. Guess we'll see where his mind is at once he runs into Sylar again.

As for memories, the Hatian at this point is on the run, remember, because after Mohinder healed him he took off. So I don't think he's back at the company (and all that happend after he put Peter in the shipping container).

Here's something to think about: How do you kill off Adam? The only way I can think of to keep him dead is to pull a Highlander - and just think, Hiro does have a sword...

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:46 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I guess I can't completely hate Mohinder. He's just so naive that it's almost too easy to fool him. But at the same time, he's seen that The Company is more than capable of using dubious (if not outright evil) methods to accomplish their goals. It's like you want to whack the guy over the head with a big sign that says "HEY! YOU'RE GETTING SCREWED!".

Part of me wonders if Noah allowed himself to be shot. Perhaps after seeing the paintings and knowing Isaac's tendency to be right, he believed that he could do nothing more. Maybe he thought dying was the best way to protect his family.

******************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 6:48 AM

MSB


I am really disturbed at Mohinder's change in character.. Noah might have been talked down and he didn't even try. Plus Noah didn't shoot Elle to kill her even though she visibly tried to kill West and hurt Claire... what was Mohinder thinking???

I love the scenes between Hiro and his dad. I think Hiro makes a great moral center and I think it will be best for everyone when he teams with Peter.
Peter really needs to develop a BS meter of some kind. He's so sweet he can be taken in by anyone. It's why he really needs Nathan. Nathan's cynicism and skepticism balance him out. Peter's a danger to himself and others if he doesn't develop perfect control and learn to stop trusting everyone who crosses his path. First he trusts the company blindly, then he trusts Adam blindly, then he trusts the irish guy ( who held him captive and beat him ) completely... he's got to develop some healthy skepticism or he's going to do some serious damage

____________________________________________

Nope, don't use cologne. Women I date think the smell of sawdust is sexy. That's probably why I don't... date many women.- Gibbs
You start talking about capes and tights and I'm out of here. -Ando Masahashi

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 8:54 AM

RIVERISMYGODDESS


i'm still with story on the d.l. issue, but at this point i am willing to agree to disagree.


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
We all immediately assumed Noah was taken by The Company, but what if Adam is the one who has him? Food for thought, anyway.


i didn't, and even got in a discussion about it with my roommate. logically, the company has him, because mohinder and bob and wounded elle were there with his body. also, and this has been pointed out by my roommate, the room he was in at the end of the episode did look very much like a jail cell of some sort. however, i can't see any reason for the Company to actually want him alive, well, other than as a hostage to get claire to do what they want her to. with the crudeness of the bed/cell, it seems that adam picking him up could be pretty likely. i suppose the main question of that is what adam would want with him.


i thought it was clever the way that bennett kept elle under control, then stupid of him to let her go with just duct tape on her wrists. i am a big fan of elle, though. the teasing, sadistic electricity is very sexeh to me.


i like matt a lot too, and i like that he has taken a darker turn. with the powers they have, we can't keep expecting all of them to keep using them for good and nothing else, so it was bound to happen.


i can't wait for more sylar, or to see what was going on with hiro and peter, or for more micah, or to see peter and nathan reunited. man, lots of stuff, and so very little time to fit it all into.


~jimi
Lt. Alexander - Chief Medic / XO Alpha Co. / Logistics & Transportation Specialist - 76th IAB

i am just a worthless liar.
i am just an imbecile.
i will only complicate you.
trust in me and fall as well.
i will find a center in you.
i will chew it up and leave.
i will work to elevate you.
just enough to bring you down.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:36 AM

CHRISISALL


I think maybe Sylar and Maya & Miguel (heh heh) are done for this season and will be the focus of the next chapter, whenever we get it, that is. I don't see how just two more eps can encompass/complete any more than they've had on their plate last couple of shows...

But I could be wrong Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 10:39 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Damnit, it sounds like I missed a really good Heroes.

You did, my friend.

Best one so far IMHO Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:18 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by deepgirl187:
I guess I can't completely hate Mohinder.

Yeah, but he DOES need a slap or two.

WAKE UP, MAN Chrisisall

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 12:31 PM

MISTERG


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
I think maybe Sylar and Maya & Miguel (heh heh) are done for this season and will be the focus of the next chapter,



Actually their story will be a big part of the next episode and dovetail well into the finale :)

As for the other part expect Matt, Peter, Hiro and Nathan to be involved in something to do with Adam.

More later gota fly (flies up into the air) heh.

At least on the plus side, we're only getting shorted 1 episode for this 1/2 of the season. Could have been much worse.

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Tuesday, November 20, 2007 2:23 PM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Damnit, it sounds like I missed a really good Heroes.

You did, my friend.

Best one so far IMHO Chrisisall

I had a WCS dance thing to go to. I don’t know why it was on Monday - my bad luck I guess. I hope I can download it on itunes before next Monday, so I can keep up.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:57 AM

FELIXDACAT


Anyone else notice the gaffe with Noah?
Dead bodies do not have any blood flow so therefore an IV drip would not work (unless he was hooked to a heart/lung machine, which he was not).
Perhaps the company brought Noah back because they want him back onboard. Remember, they had the paintings as well, so they knew what would happen. Therefore, they captured Claire's blood because they knew it would be used for Noah. Maybe they believe that Mr. Monroe is a more important enemy right now, and they could use Noah's skills. Plus they likely already know that Skylar is on the loose and is destined to get his powers back.
We still don't know what Mama Petrelli's and Papa Nakamura's powers are.
Sometimes the creators of this show are too cagey for their own good.

FX

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 9:06 AM

MSB


Just because he was shot in the head doesn't mean he was dead.. could have still been alive( would depend on caliber of weapon, type of bullet, and angle of entry into the skull... if his orbital socket's relatively thick and Mohinder used an unjacketed bullet it could have slowed velocity sufficiently and as long as the bullet didn't bounce it might not have killed him instantly....might have had a cerebral hemmorage and been dying but not dead..It looked like Mohinder was using a 9mm, but it's possible that it was a smaller caliber weapon or that angle of entry was straight enough that he didn't die instantly...

I keep wondering what Sylar will do if he doesn't regain his powers. He's still an exceptional manipulator and could make himself an army of those with powers...

My guess is that Mohinder felt badly for shooting Noah so he brought him in and used some of Claire's blood to heal him..and the company let him because they want to keep Mohinder on their side and thinking that they are just trying to help and that would go a long way towards convincing Mohinder that they are good guys.


____________________________________________

Nope, don't use cologne. Women I date think the smell of sawdust is sexy. That's probably why I don't... date many women.- Gibbs
You start talking about capes and tights and I'm out of here. -Ando Masahashi

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Wednesday, November 21, 2007 5:08 PM

CYBERSNARK


Maybe the Company has a telekinetic with fine enough control to "massage" Noah's heart to jump-start his circulatory system.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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