OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

Heroes season two Eleven episodes long; how do you feel about it?

POSTED BY: CHRISISALL
UPDATED: Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:01
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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 12:32 PM

CHRISISALL


The re-wrote the ep "Powerless" to be the new season finale because of the writer's strike.
Do you

a) feel that was a good move so we aren't kept hangin' for almost a year.

OR

b) feel it was a mistake 'cause they'll probably have to cram stuff in to give us temporary closure.

Or something else?

I vote a.

Andoisall


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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:06 PM

LWAVES


I don't like the fact that we will have a chopped up season, but having said that I believe that some kind of ending (cliffhanger or not) is better than just leaving it hanging. Especially as we don't know how long this strike will go on for.

I feel sorry for those fans of shows that have started and are just going to stop once episodes run dry, the ones that have no way of wrapping a story up in any fashion, and then they have to wait until it's all over.

My only other hope is that if the strike continues long enough that shows like Lost, BSG and others that haven't began will wait until it's all over and then show full uninterrupted seasons. The idea that Lost may show the 8 episodes they've made and then we have to wait for the rest really doesn't thrill me.

Let's hope they get it sorted...and soon.

Oh yeah I guess my vote is a)


"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 2:48 PM

CYBERSNARK


Well, Volume 2 was supposed to end before Christmas anyway (Season 2 was to contain Volumes 2 and 3), so I call it a non-issue. Probably all they did was to take out the "hook" for Volume 3.

Way things stand now, I can't see Heroes not coming back after the strike. Vol. 3 will either be abbreviated, or just pushed back to Season 3 (which would contain Vol. 3 and Vol. 4).

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:16 PM

RAHLMACLAREN

"Damn yokels, can't even tell a transport ship ain't got no guns on it." - Jayne Cobb


Man, this is going to make the mid season hiatus that much more brutal, isn't it?

Eleven episode season. Sounds a bit familiar.

More-Kristen Bell-isall!!!

--------------------------------------------------
Find here the Serenity you seek.

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Tuesday, November 13, 2007 5:50 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Well, Volume 2 was supposed to end before Christmas anyway (Season 2 was to contain Volumes 2 and 3), so I call it a non-issue. Probably all they did was to take out the "hook" for Volume 3.


I'm totally okay with it. Question is, will season 2 come out on DVD with just 3 disks, like Rescue Me does (they only have 13 eps a season)?

Love-y the DVD Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:52 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


B. I’d rather them not screw up the story because of political reasons. This is what killed Dark Angel.

As an aside, how much do screen writers make? Is the strike really necessary? Or is it more like the baseball strike, where people who make 6, 7, and 8 figures playing a game can’t make 7,8, and 9 figures playing a game. Because quite frankly, the baseball strike ended my intereste in baseball completely. I haven’t watched a game since.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 4:59 AM

GRIZWALD


Finn wrote,

Quote:

As an aside, how much do screen writers make? Is the strike really necessary? Or is it more like the baseball strike, where people who make 6, 7, and 8 figures playing a game can’t make 7,8, and 9 figures playing a game. Because quite frankly, the baseball strike ended my intereste in baseball completely. I haven’t watched a game since.


It's more an issue of what will they make in future. The technology is so fluid right now. Under the current contract, the writers get a little money for every DVD sold. It's not much, just a few cents, but it's something. Maybe in 7 years we won't be using DVDs anymore, so what will it help to get a few cents per DVD sold? Nuttin. They are trying to write something into their contracts to allow for still getting paid when the technology shifts to, say, all online viewing or direct downloads.

Back to the question at hand, I pick option A.


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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:06 AM

MISTERG


A!

We're only loosing 1 episodes from Volume 2 so I'm not too worried about that, but it would be pretty cool if they released a small DVD set.

As for writers, it was said perfectly right above. They don't earn a ton writing, but they do get residuals. And right now their residulas are pretty pathetic, while the producers and companies who make the shows reap in massive profits.

Also some writers may have a great year where the pull in say $90,000. And then the next year they may not get a job at all.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:14 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Grizwald:
It's more an issue of what will they make in future. The technology is so fluid right now. Under the current contract, the writers get a little money for every DVD sold. It's not much, just a few cents, but it's something. Maybe in 7 years we won't be using DVDs anymore, so what will it help to get a few cents per DVD sold? Nuttin. They are trying to write something into their contracts to allow for still getting paid when the technology shifts to, say, all online viewing or direct downloads.

I have no problem with that in theory, but it’s not going to be an easy thing to work out and might not be a quick thing to work out. I already don’t watch much tv, if it takes too long, I’ll probably find other things to do.

I’m more concerned with the lack of Heroes purists on this board. You’re all willing to sacrifice the story for political reasons, tsk, tsk. Where's the commitment to the story?!! When Heroes season 2 turns out like Dark Angel season 2, all you A's are to blame!



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:17 AM

MISTERG


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
When Heroes season 2 turns out like Dark Angel season 2, all you A's are to blame!



The writing is too consistantly high quality for that to happen. Then again DA wasn't very good from about the 3rd episode on! (ducks and runs)

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:17 AM

GRIZWALD


I think the story is more effective if it moves along.

We watched the first season of 24 and while it was a rollercoaster and the suspense nearly did me in, I found it annoying how it seemed forced to keep it going through 24 episodes. I know that sounds stupid as there had to be an episode per hour of the day, but really I thought it was a 12-hour story, not a 24-hour story. Sometimes a story can be told better in a shorter time than a longer one.

And I think that makes no sense at all... But it sounded much better in my head.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:20 AM

CYBERSNARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Grizwald:
Quote:

As an aside, how much do screen writers make? Is the strike really necessary? Or is it more like the baseball strike, where people who make 6, 7, and 8 figures playing a game can’t make 7,8, and 9 figures playing a game. Because quite frankly, the baseball strike ended my intereste in baseball completely. I haven’t watched a game since.


It's more an issue of what will they make in future. The technology is so fluid right now. Under the current contract, the writers get a little money for every DVD sold. It's not much, just a few cents, but it's something. Maybe in 7 years we won't be using DVDs anymore, so what will it help to get a few cents per DVD sold? Nuttin. They are trying to write something into their contracts to allow for still getting paid when the technology shifts to, say, all online viewing or direct downloads.



Essentially correct. Most writers only bring down $62'000 a year, which is middle class (especially for those living in L.A.). These aren't multimillion-dollar celebrities here, they're more like Mal & company, just scraping by when things go well.

Most writers are well paid when they're working on a show, but we (as fans of Joss, Tim, Marti, and others) know that jobs don't last forever, and writers tend to end up with a lot of downtime.

Residuals are what make this possible. Everytime an episode of Buffy or Angel is shown in reruns (on Sci-Fi, or Space, or some small local network at 2 am), Joss (or whoever has the writing credit for that ep) gets a bit of cash. Likewise, writers only get about 4 cents from each DVD sold (yes, you read that right. 4 cents), and a big fat nothing from web-based media (like the advertisement-laden media streams that many networks offer --which do earn income for the networks, because there's advertising there).

The trouble is that reruns are drying up (networks don't show reruns during hiatus anymore, they bring out new mid-season series), DVDs are in transition, and internet media is heating up.

The same amount of money is coming into the system, but now it's going to the network owners (let's call them "Badger," or "Fanty & Mingo") rather than to the writers who actually do the work. The loss of those residuals will be enough to put some writers past the poverty line.

What the writers want is more per DVD (say 8 cents instead of 4), and some share of internet rights. In fact, just before the strike, the writers had taken the DVD increase off the table, but the networks still aren't budging.

-----
We applied the cortical electrodes but were unable to get a neural reaction from either patient.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:31 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Essentially correct. Most writers only bring down $62'000 a year, which is middle class (especially for those living in L.A.). These aren't multimillion-dollar celebrities here, they're more like Mal & company, just scraping by when things go well.

I was feeling a little better about this until I saw this. $62 grand a year is pretty reasonable pay for television screen writers, it seems. That’s not far removed from the median income of physicians - who do far more important work then writing stories for fictional tv.

I guess I can see the job security angle, but they better fix this quickly, because my sympathy for them just dropped a letter grade.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:46 AM

GRIZWALD


I've lived in LA, and like in New York, or Philly, or Boston, or Minneapolis, or many other places, $62K doesn't go all that far. Plus they are trying to avoid a pay CUT, when prices of everything we need to live on continue to rise. I don't think it's unreasonable.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 5:58 AM

MISTERG


My sympathy is with the writers and against the studios.. and the so called 'talent', the actors.

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:18 AM

DEEPGIRL187


Finn, the best place for more info on the strike might be here: http://www.fans4writers.com. It can tell you everything the strike involves.

*****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:19 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
I was feeling a little better about this until I saw this. $62 grand a year is pretty reasonable pay for television screen writers, it seems. That’s not far removed from the median income of physicians - who do far more important work then writing stories for fictional tv.

That's if consistently employed, like on Buffy or ER or something. Take Tim Minear- I saw he wrote sporadically...X-Files story editor for a year..5 eps of Lois And Clark, various writing for pilots and such...it wasn't until Angel and Firefly that he worked steady for more than a year. And he's a success story. So, there's a hundred for every one like him that write one ep of a series, or write one pilot or something a year then go back to managing a video store or whatever. It's not as avaricious as you think to ask for secured royalties...I have a friend the worked as a stuntman for the last two seasons of Buffy...he's pretty successful in Hollywoodland, but if you average what he's made per year in the last 5 years, it's like, 30,000 a year (in Tinseltown that gets you a small studio apt. if you have a roommate)! The spikes and valleys are that severe.

Plus: 9-11 severely changed Dark Angel- they opted to pump up the sci-fi, and almost lose the terrorist 'pulse' angle in response to it (a BIG mistake IMHO), so yeah, politically truncated, but Heroes won't be doing that- they're just, as was said above, removing the 'hook' for the next 'volume', not changing their story around to be comfortable with the times.

BTW, did you see the original Heroes pilot on the DVD? It's fascinating to see HOW heavily terrorist-connected it was, and actually, the switch from terrorist-connected 'gifted' ones to secret-society dudes served it very well, I think.

Home again w/the sick kid Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:29 AM

JARHEAD


Quote:

Originally posted by MisterG:
Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
When Heroes season 2 turns out like Dark Angel season 2, all you A's are to blame!



The writing is too consistantly high quality for that to happen. Then again DA wasn't very good from about the 3rd episode on! (ducks and runs)



Go ahead and run. You'll just die tired:)

Not really, but I think DA was great all the way up until season 2. The first few eps of that year had their moments, but afterwards it was just painful.

I’m never serious. Serious means something bad is about to happen.

98% of teens have smoked pot, if you are one of the 2% that haven't, copy this into your signature

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:51 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Quote:

Originally posted by Cybersnark:
Essentially correct. Most writers only bring down $62'000 a year, which is middle class (especially for those living in L.A.). These aren't multimillion-dollar celebrities here, they're more like Mal & company, just scraping by when things go well.

I was feeling a little better about this until I saw this. $62 grand a year is pretty reasonable pay for television screen writers, it seems. That’s not far removed from the median income of physicians - who do far more important work then writing stories for fictional tv.

I guess I can see the job security angle, but they better fix this quickly, because my sympathy for them just dropped a letter grade.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero



Keep in mind, that figure is an average. Guys like Akiva Goldsman who makes a million or two per script, or even Joss, really skew the number.

Plus, in LA 62 grand isn't much. Then factor in that many writers go a couple years or more between script sales, and you can see why residuals are important. Without them, many, if not most writers would have to find other careers, and then the stories go away completely.

Another detail to keep in mind, that 4 cents per DVD is flat. So, on a TV show DVD, which could have contributions from a dozen or more writers, that 4 cents is spread out between them. And when it comes to the internet distribution, the writers are only asking for a small percentage. thus, if it doesn't make money online, they get nothing from it.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 6:59 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by jarhead:
Quote:

Originally posted by MisterG:
Then again DA wasn't very good from about the 3rd episode on! (ducks and runs)



Go ahead and run. You'll just die tired:)

Not really, but I think DA was great all the way up until season 2.



First season of Dark Angel was almost Firefly quality as far as I'm concerned. The second is just good-to-okay sci-fi/action, with a few really bright spots, most noteably the last ep directed by Cameron. Jessica and Michael make the second season worth having, but many eps are almost worthless to the larger story.

His DA button was pushed Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 7:57 AM

STORYMARK


The only DA I ever watched was the premeire, and the finale. I may have watched the second episode, but I can't remember for sure.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:11 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


After discussing this topic with co-workers, friends, etc., it seems to follow classic liberal/conservie lines.

Liberal: Without us, u have nothing to sell. Scabs equal less margin.

Conservie: Quit whining writers. If you are willing to share the risk of cultivating and maintaining this business, sure here's your percentage.

Valid on both sides, however, u gotta lean towards the writers as a consumer. I don't care about some networks business plan. I want my shows man.

EDIT: Physicians close to 62K a year? (u talkin PA, nurse, assistants and the like?) How close? 90% of my clients are medical in a 100K pop. city. Thats not close to the physicians I deal with. ...and comparing the work of Physicians to writers. Why? Glad ur not my boss. "Well, PD we're gonna have to cut ur salary since u haven't saved any lives this month.

Writers bring joy, imagination, and inspiration to our minds, soothing us to a healthy mental well being.

Fulla-crap PDisall


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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:36 AM

STORYMARK


Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:
Conservie: Quit whining writers. If you are willing to share the risk of cultivating and maintaining this business, sure here's your percentage.




That's not even really the studio position, it's the writers. They are willing to share in the risk, as the precentage structure they ask for gives them nothing if there is no profit. The studios are offering a flat nothing, in terms of the internet and new tech.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:38 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:
Conservie: Quit whining writers. If you are willing to share the risk of cultivating and maintaining this business, sure here's your percentage.




That's not even really the studio position, it's the writers. They are willing to share in the risk, as the precentage structure they ask for gives them nothing if there is no profit. The studios are offering a flat nothing, in terms of the internet and new tech.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."



Yep. ur correct, I was just presenting overall Joe's take on this. Seen it on multiple forums and with peeps i've talked to.

EDIT :So, are u saying that this type of thinking is not why the networks aren't giving up the money? Is it just complete greed? There's another theme I've seen.

There is still risk if a show makes nothing. Networks lose the money spent, they are not asking writers to pay back if it fails right? That is the, no matter how wrong, the position I am talking about.


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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:54 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:

Writers bring joy, imagination, and inspiration to our minds, soothing us to a healthy mental well being.


Terrorists don't have writers giving them involving stories that bring joy or inspiration- that's why the get all drama-queen-y and blow themselves up.
Don't tell me that writers aren't crucial to our society.

Not totally kidding Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 8:58 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:

Writers bring joy, imagination, and inspiration to our minds, soothing us to a healthy mental well being.



Don't tell me that writers aren't crucial to our society.



U'll never here me say this. I was being serious about what I said above. I had written the fulla statement before about the DR. thing.

I have actually used a similar analogy involving the extremists. If u are in the middle of a dessert with no nightly TV to watch and some guy telling tall tales of an Evil empire in the west. U may fall for it. Not to mention poor, possibly hungry, and less educated.


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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:09 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
The only DA I ever watched was the premeire, and the finale.

Poor Storymark! You must run out and get the first season immediately! $35 at Bestbuy. $20 if still on sale at Target!

Transgenic Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:11 AM

STORYMARK


Sorry Chris.... but there was a reason I stopped at episode 2... Might Netflix it down the line, but I don't see myself buying it anytime....ever.

"I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:22 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Storymark:
Sorry Chris.... but there was a reason I stopped at episode 2...

But that ep was SO good!!! Like when Max paused before knocking out a bad guy..."Hey- you're kinda cute..." *POW*
That had me rollin'!!!!

Is this a DA thread now Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 9:33 AM

PDCHARLES

What happened? He see your face?


Heroes cliffhanger:

Pa Patrelli: "Peter, Nathan...."
Peter: *gulp* "Dad..."

Or is Adam their REAL father, thus the Claire/Adam connection. Like Noah, the father they thought they knew was a stand-in.

Mwuh aha ha aha ha ha ha ha






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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 10:08 AM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by pdcharles:

Mwuh aha ha aha ha ha ha ha

Yours is an evil laugh....

If Adam is their father...

"I mean, what a cliche' that'd be..." - Max

Better not be Chrisisall

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 11:42 AM

FINN MAC CUMHAL


Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
That's if consistently employed, like on Buffy or ER or something. Take Tim Minear- I saw he wrote sporadically...X-Files story editor for a year..5 eps of Lois And Clark, various writing for pilots and such...it wasn't until Angel and Firefly that he worked steady for more than a year. And he's a success story. So, there's a hundred for every one like him that write one ep of a series, or write one pilot or something a year then go back to managing a video store or whatever. It's not as avaricious as you think to ask for secured royalties...I have a friend the worked as a stuntman for the last two seasons of Buffy...he's pretty successful in Hollywoodland, but if you average what he's made per year in the last 5 years, it's like, 30,000 a year (in Tinseltown that gets you a small studio apt. if you have a roommate)! The spikes and valleys are that severe.

Like I said, I can still see the job security thing, but as far as salary (if this salary is correct) then I’m not sure that I’m willing to say they are underpaid, but I will give them that their job security seems to suck.
Quote:

Originally posted by chrisisall:
BTW, did you see the original Heroes pilot on the DVD? It's fascinating to see HOW heavily terrorist-connected it was, and actually, the switch from terrorist-connected 'gifted' ones to secret-society dudes served it very well, I think.

No. I haven’t got the Heroes DVD. Since I bought all of season one on itunes, I didn’t feel the need to buy the DVD.



Nihil est incertius vulgo, nihil obscurius voluntate hominum, nihil fallacius ratione tota comitiorum.

Nothing is more unpredictable than the mob, nothing more obscure than public opinion, nothing more deceptive than the whole political system.

-- Cicero

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Wednesday, November 14, 2007 12:01 PM

CHRISISALL


Quote:

Originally posted by Finn mac Cumhal:
Since I bought all of season one on itunes, I didn’t feel the need to buy the DVD.


It' not a must-see, but just interesting how tied to conventional, real-world terrorism the original pilot was. There was torture, and Middle Eastern types talking about destroying NYC...I like the direction they took for broadcast pilot much better. And all they did was remove/alter one major character. Oh, and they added cooler FX in places.

FYIChrisisall

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Binge-worthy?
Fri, October 8, 2021 23:45 - 63 posts
Emergence, and Evil
Tue, August 31, 2021 20:09 - 25 posts
Better than Us
Tue, August 31, 2021 19:54 - 3 posts
What Have Been The Stellar Sci-Fi Shows?
Tue, August 31, 2021 19:52 - 51 posts
Best TV series, decade by decade.
Tue, August 31, 2021 19:50 - 45 posts
Brain Dead
Tue, August 31, 2021 19:49 - 11 posts
BrainDead
Tue, August 24, 2021 08:46 - 8 posts
Defiance- does this look good or what?
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The Expanse
Wed, June 9, 2021 10:45 - 24 posts
Why have British tv never fully funded 'Dr Who' for a movie?
Wed, June 9, 2021 08:01 - 1 posts
STAR TREK: The reboot on CBS
Fri, June 4, 2021 17:01 - 44 posts

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