OTHER SCIENCE FICTION SERIES

The Dark Knight

POSTED BY: SINGATE
UPDATED: Saturday, August 9, 2008 21:20
SHORT URL:
VIEWED: 6830
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Sunday, July 20, 2008 1:58 PM

SINGATE


This may be the best picture of the year. That being said I'm sure the stigma of sci-fi/comic films will prevent it from being nominated much less winning any actual awards. I know a lot of people are sounding off about Ledger possibly getting a posthomous Oscar nomination, and he did a fine job, but that would be a disservice to the rest of the cast. This may be the best ensemble performance since the first two Godfather movies. There is not a weak link in the entire film.

It is very hard to classify this picture. It isn't really a comic book movie. It contains elements of the classic crime story, psychological thriller, and of course action. It reminds me a lot of the old epic films such as The Ten Commandments or Spartacus. Not in content but in the fact that it tells a massive and lengthy story which could have easily been broken into several films.

Some of my favorite moments from the film:

Select to view spoiler:


Batman/Joker showdown in the street, concluding with Gordan putting a gun to the Joker's head.

Gordan and Batman seperately interrogate the Joker.

Dent talking to Rachel as Batman breaks in to save him, condemning her to death.

The Joker makes his one legally entitled phone call.

Everytime Dent/Two Face makes use of the coin.

The final confrontation between Dent, Batman, and Gordan.

The conclusion of the film when Batman becomes what Gotham needs while allowing Dent's reputation to remain unsullied.



Do yourself a favor and see this movie.

_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Sunday, July 20, 2008 8:12 PM

JADEHAND


I saw it tonight. I enjoyed it, but I didn't go as gah-gah over it as others. Without having ever focused on the stories of either, I think I still enjoyed Ironman more. I agree that sci-fi/fantasy/comic-book films don't get the credit they deserve. Since this is a discussion of opinion and perspective rather than argument over who is right, I'll contribute the following:

Select to view spoiler:



1)I loved Heath Ledger's performance. He deserves praise for portraying complete psychopath well. I think NPH's performance as Dr. Horrible far exceeds HL's though.
2)Creation and destruction of a new villain with potential to carry the next film was careless.
3)I'm still conflicted over the "rightness" of the deception of the population for their own good. I mean.. isn't that what all the folk are clamoring about in various political discussions? Is it right to accept deception to avoid being kept from the truth? (that makes no sense). accepting one set of lies to avoid others doesn't though. "Revolution Calling". no more 'lesser of evils'.




"It's all so clear. We can see the madness perfectly from here." - Asylum Satellite 1 - Happiness is the Road - Marillion

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Sunday, July 20, 2008 9:28 PM

SINGATE


Select to view spoiler:


While I do agree that killing Dent would be a waste I have read some conflicting information regarding his apparent demise. He may still return for another film.

Your final point is quite valid. Given what happens near the end with the 2 ferries it seems a little odd that Gordan and Bats would choose to deceive the public. Since the populace failed to "eat each other" as the Joker surmised, why would they be unable to handle the truth about Dent? Though it is a bit perplexing I really do enjoy Batman becomming what Gotham (apparently)needs him to be.



_________________________________________________

We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.

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Monday, July 21, 2008 7:56 AM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


"For my next trick, I'm going to make this pencil dissapear......"

To me, that scene was pure Joker. So very Chaotic/goofy/evil.

While that doesn't spoil much the following does:

Select to view spoiler:




The part of the film that isn't getting enough credit is the bank heist opening. The Joker truely doesn't care about his own life and the bank heist proves it. At the end when the final thug makes like he's going to kill his companion(Joker) I love the way the camera gives us a top-down view while the Joker and the thug circle each other before Heath says "I'm supposed to kill the bus driver". I LOVE that scene. And the final bit of the heist is like a cherry on top. He puts what we expect is an incendary grenade in the mouth of the Bank Manager and drives away thus pulling the pin. When it goes off however, we see that it's actually a PRANK in the form of a smoke bomb. That alone, was possibly the greatest demonstration of theme in the whole movie. The Joker cares nothing for the lives of others, he cares not a whit for his own, and throughout it still manages to plant a sick joke. Pure evil and chaos. That's the Joker.





Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:11 AM

LWAVES


I saw this last night and found it thoroughly brilliant. As stated the whole cast never let anything down, they worked together perfectly. Heath Ledger made Jack Nicholson's Joker look like a wimp. His performance was chillingly psycho. Does he deserve an Oscar? Maybe. But if he hadn't died I don't even think he'd be considered. That may sound harsh but it's how I see it.

The action scenes were pitched just right so that they grabbed you but didn't go over the top and spoil things. The stunts and gadgets were believable for this type of movie and still added to the mystery and fear that Batman imposes on criminals.
If I had one minor quibble it would be that there may have been a bit too much moralising, but that would be about it and I'm still not sure if there was too much.

I've never liked the term 'superhero' used in conjunction with Batman and I think that can be applied to this film in the same way that 'comic book movie' can. The film isn't either. It is a serious film that should be far removed from the likes of Superman, Hulk, Ironman, Hellboy etc. Batman is a crimefighter, a vigilante or whatever you wish to call him. And as Singate rightly said this is a psychological thriller, a classic crime story, who's hero just happens to be a man in disguise. Come to that, is Batman really the hero? Surely it's Jim Gordon?

Anyway my fave moments are:

Select to view spoiler:



Fox telling the accountant "You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands. And your plan is to blackmail this person?"

The bank heist where each person has been told to kill someone.

The Joker meeting the mob. Especially the magic trick.

The Joker waiting for the final explosions at the hospital.

Batman and The Joker in the same room. Excellent stuff.

Batman doing what is needed at the end. Becoming a murderer. I could never see Superman doing that. And of course the Joker wins. What a dark ending.



There are so many other momnents I couldn't list them all.
See this film now. It is and will be film of the year.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:49 AM

PLATONIST


I saw this the other night...Brilliant on all accounts, an ensemble cast worthy of Coppola and a direction highly influenced by Scorsese.

Definitely recommending for the over 13 set though, as it is very violent with adult themes.

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:52 AM

WHOZIT


Quote:

Originally posted by lwaves:
I saw this last night and found it thoroughly brilliant. As stated the whole cast never let anything down, they worked together perfectly. Heath Ledger made Jack Nicholson's Joker look like a wimp. His performance was chillingly psycho. Does he deserve an Oscar? Maybe. But if he hadn't died I don't even think he'd be considered. That may sound harsh but it's how I see it.

The action scenes were pitched just right so that they grabbed you but didn't go over the top and spoil things. The stunts and gadgets were believable for this type of movie and still added to the mystery and fear that Batman imposes on criminals.
If I had one minor quibble it would be that there may have been a bit too much moralising, but that would be about it and I'm still not sure if there was too much.

I've never liked the term 'superhero' used in conjunction with Batman and I think that can be applied to this film in the same way that 'comic book movie' can. The film isn't either. It is a serious film that should be far removed from the likes of Superman, Hulk, Ironman, Hellboy etc. Batman is a crimefighter, a vigilante or whatever you wish to call him. And as Singate rightly said this is a psychological thriller, a classic crime story, who's hero just happens to be a man in disguise. Come to that, is Batman really the hero? Surely it's Jim Gordon?

Anyway my fave moments are:

Select to view spoiler:



Fox telling the accountant "You think that your client, one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands. And your plan is to blackmail this person?"

The bank heist where each person has been told to kill someone.

The Joker meeting the mob. Especially the magic trick.

The Joker waiting for the final explosions at the hospital.

Batman and The Joker in the same room. Excellent stuff.

Batman doing what is needed at the end. Becoming a murderer. I could never see Superman doing that. And of course the Joker wins. What a dark ending.



There are so many other momnents I couldn't list them all.
See this film now. It is and will be film of the year.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

I do'nt think you sound harsh, many think the same thing, as a matter of fact I've heard worse.

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:54 AM

MRBLUESUN


I saw it yesterday

Select to view spoiler:


My favourite part was when the Joker totally summed up the realtionship between him and Batman with the whole "you'll never kill me because of your morality, and i'll never kill you because you're so much fun" bit.
I also loved the the part where the Joker told two different stories for how he got his scars, but seemed completely earnest about both. It really demonstated his broken psyche.


Does anyone think that they'll make a third film? If they do (and with Ledger now sadly deceased)who would you like to take over as villain? Personally i think that they could do some interesting stuff with the Riddler, and maybe try and undue the damage done when Jim Carey butchered the role.

I may wear brown, but theres a little purple mixed in there too.

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:33 AM

DEEPGIRL187


I saw it last Saturday. Everyone did a wonderful job, though I agree with Singate in that they'll never nominate it, and even if they do, no one will actually get the Oscar (see Lord Of The Rings for a great example of this).

Select to view spoiler:


I was particularly pleased with Aaron Eckhart, who I thought brilliantly played a man pushed over the edge.

In a way, you can divide the film's characters into three types; order (Gordon and Dent), corruption (the crooked cops and the mob), and chaos (The Joker and Batman, strangely).

I say The Joker is chaos, not corruption, because he really doesn't do what he does for personal gain. He wants to see just what people will do when pushed to their utmost limits. Batman is a force of chaos in his own way, because even though he tries to be a force for good, he refuses to use conventional methods (and frankly, they rarely work). I think what scares Batman most is not The Joker himself, but that they're really so much alike.

But then I suppose that makes sense. Batman was the only DC superhero I ever really liked, because he got to have insanity as a superpower.



**************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 8:45 AM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Loved it. Loved the speech at the end, too, because it's so true. But really, couldn't they have hung it on the Joker? Anyway, it was amazingly dark and creepy, as it should be. I need to see it again so I can be a little more coherant about it :)

Quote:

Originally posted by MrBlueSun:
If they do (and with Ledger now sadly deceased)who would you like to take over as villain?


Catwoman.


You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 2:50 PM

PSYKOTEK1


Keep the riddler the hell away from Batman

never liked the character

It's a pity Ledger's dead I could watch the joker screw with the bat's pointy little head for years to come

As for the next movie

Catwoman is always a crowd please

Penguin as a kingpin type not a circus freak

return of two face?

Black Mask? a crime boss from the comics
also Hush
Needs to be someone somehow conected to organized crime...
Ventrilloquist is crazy enough but could not to carry a film,
Killer Kroc? not real enough for Nolan's gotham

I don't know any other ideas people?


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Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:08 PM

CORNCOBB


In the comics and animated series there's a villain named Anarchy, who tries to bring down the Batman because he think's he's responsible for Gotham's problems. I think he'd be a good choice.

Select to view spoiler:


Would tie in nicely with the idea of Batman as a hunted man, and the ramifications of him having inspired the Joker.


There'll probably be more than one villain though, seems to be the pattern. Plus, Ledger as the Joker is going to be an extremely hard act to follow.

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:10 PM

CORNCOBB


Oh and the Dark knight itself was amazing. Possibly insurpassable. Going to see it again next week

"Gorramit Mal... I've forgotten my line."

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 4:54 PM

OPTIMUS1998


well having NEVER read a batman book, my lose experiences come from the 60's tv shlock(POW!), the first 2 of the last series (tim burton/michael keaton- neither val klmer, nor clooney a batman make), and the 90's "Batman the animated series"

so far we've had (forgive the mis-spellings):
Ras al-goul ( was he killed?? been a while...since i watched batman begins)
the Scarecrow
The joker ( dead now , so no Harley Quinn, always liked the character)
Two-face

that leaves:
Catwoman
Penguin
Riddler
Poison Ivy
Mr. Freeze
Clayface
Killer Croc
not sure who could play any of them, but that's my 2 cents.



Make Cartoons, Not War
- Sue Blu
Well played, Clerks...
- Leonardo Leonardo(Clerks Cartoon)

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 5:24 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


It's going to be Catwoman. There might be someone else in there, too (which usually bothers me, but they're pulling it off very well) but the main story will center around Batman and Catwoman.

Remember, the new batsuit can't stop cats.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

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Saturday, July 26, 2008 5:48 PM

WYTCHCROFT


christ - so i have to be the odd one out??? how does that get to be fair???

oh well. i love Batman - have done since i was very young - i recently recommended The Killing Joke here on another thread. My favourite period of The Bat is probably Neal Adams, Dennis O'neil - loved the supernatural element. Also a big fan of the first two movies with Keaton. And you have to love the tv show, right?

ok, so i saw The Dark Knight and thought it was an ugly, muddled, misguided, sexist and racist sack of shit that fundamentally misunderstood the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne, stole from genre films that have nothing in common with Batman and failed to move me on any level. Ledger was the only exception - and even the joker was handled badly by the script.

and there you have it.

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Sunday, July 27, 2008 2:23 AM

MRBLUESUN


Quote:

Keep the riddler the hell away from Batman

never liked the character



Granted there have been some pretty god-awful portrayals down the years, such as the tv series (purple underpants over green lycra,need i say more?) but i think that if anyone can do can do the Riddler justice it would be Chris Nolan.
Maybe if they focussed more on the obsessive compulsive elements of the character and have him as a more of an intellectual villain who relies on manipulation to try and beat Batman, rather than a standard thug.
I know that Catwoman is probably a big fvourite but imo the inevitable romantic sub-plot would ruin (or at least seriously hinder) the movie. Plus, i think they may struggle to make her a realistic threat to Nolan's Batman.

I may wear brown, but theres a little purple mixed in there too.

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Sunday, July 27, 2008 3:17 AM

WHOZIT


Dark Knight has made $300 million in 10 days. Source; www.drudgereport.com

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Sunday, July 27, 2008 9:03 AM

JOLLY


Quote:

Originally posted by wytchcroft:

ok, so i saw The Dark Knight and thought it was an ugly, muddled, misguided, sexist and racist sack of shit that fundamentally misunderstood the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne, stole from genre films that have nothing in common with Batman and failed to move me on any level. Ledger was the only exception - and even the joker was handled badly by the script.




Well, I thought it was enjoyable. And entirely disposable. It's kinda sad when the title character is the least interesting of the bunch. As to appropriating from genre flicks, I totally agree. At some point I was sure they had switched reels with MI:III...

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Sunday, July 27, 2008 12:50 PM

BLUESUNCOMPANYMAN


Quote:

Originally posted by wytchcroft:

ok, so i saw The Dark Knight and thought it was an ugly, muddled, misguided, sexist and racist sack of shit



I don't see how it was either racist or sexist.

Do not fear me. Our's is a peaceful race and we must live in harmony.

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Monday, July 28, 2008 9:47 AM

PSYKOTEK1


it wasn't a Batmovie
it was a joker movie with a batman subplot
I found the joker to be just an amusing little nutball until Ledger turned it up
watch this trick
or hit me hit me
hit me
he wads a special kinda crazy

anybody else finding Bail's Bat-Voice annoying

I had just watch the gotham knight cartoons and Kevin Conroy is the Bat's voice

they oughta dub it like vader


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Monday, July 28, 2008 10:10 AM

MIIKE


nah wytchcroft your not the only one i hated the first one overlong and boring not watching the new one oh and here s an objective review http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/videos/kermode_reviews.shtml
let the new batman hate begin
October 12th, 1985. Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown.

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Monday, July 28, 2008 10:14 AM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by miike:
nah wytchcroft your not the only one



neil gaiman is writing a new Batman comic - how gorram great is THAT!:):)

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Monday, July 28, 2008 10:19 AM

MIIKE


thats about as cool as if they got tim burton to do the sandman film in fact let gaiman direct the new batman film and i might just watch it all the best thats pretty damn cool

October 12th, 1985. Dog carcass in alley this morning, tire tread on burst stomach. This city is afraid of me. I have seen its true face. The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over, all the vermin will drown.

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Monday, July 28, 2008 10:37 AM

WYTCHCROFT


Quote:

Originally posted by miike:
all the best




same to you - thanks for the link:)

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Monday, July 28, 2008 11:18 AM

ZEEK


I liked the movie but all the plot holes sorta leaves a bad after taste. Days afterward I was talking with friends about all the glaring problems with the movie. However, the main plot was still done well and when you squint away the peripheral problems it's a great movie. At the same time it's not one I really need to see over and over.

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Monday, July 28, 2008 12:05 PM

DEEPGIRL187


Quote:

Originally posted by Psykotek1:
Kevin Conroy is the Bat's voice



You know, I was thinking about it, and for me, I think Kevin Conroy is my Batman. I'm old enough to remember Michael Keaton, but he never really grew on me (and neither did Val Kilmer or George Clooney, for that matter). But watching Kevin Conroy as the cartoon Batman resonated with me. Even though I've enjoyed the recent movies, the cartoon is still my favorite of them all.

****************************************************

"This is my timey-wimey detector. It goes ding when there's stuff. Also, it can boil an egg at 30 paces, whether you want it to or not, actually, so I've learned to stay away from hens. It's not pretty when they blow."

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Monday, July 28, 2008 12:27 PM

PSYKOTEK1


Timm and Dini's gotham
was/is/and ever shall be the best

Hell, Hamil's joker was even better
the city's vibe was spot on

the bat was human and something more
he got scared, he got mad,
but he always got justice

pretty sure he never laughed



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Tuesday, July 29, 2008 3:03 AM

PIRATECAT


I liked it. Its a good movie. The actors could have been better but the story and film are tops.
Not a big Bale fan but he is good as Batman. He made a real good movie called Rescue Dawn. I really enjoyed that. But the Oscars are not the people's choice award its the peers of Hollywood. So the joker might get one. But the movie deserve's one two.


"Battle of Serenity, Mal. Besides Zoe here, how many-" "I'm talkin at you! How many men in your platoon came out of their alive".

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Sunday, August 3, 2008 4:20 PM

OPTIMUS1998


Quote:

Originally posted by PhoenixRose:
It's going to be Catwoman. There might be someone else in there, too (which usually bothers me, but they're pulling it off very well) but the main story will center around Batman and Catwoman.

Remember, the new batsuit can't stop cats.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.



well according to that font of accurate information " The National Enquirer"
the 2 villans in the next batman flim will be:
The Riddler (Johnny Depp)
The Penguin (Philip Seymour Hoffman)

according to the enquirer...

Make Cartoons, Not War
- Sue Blu
Well played, Clerks...
- Leonardo Leonardo(Clerks Cartoon)

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Sunday, August 3, 2008 10:39 PM

SIMONWHO


Except the director has stated directly that The Penguin would be "too campy" for the revamped franchise.

I'm not sure who should come in - I think when people knew the Joker was coming back, everyone had opinions as to who should play him and nobody suggested Heath Ledger. I'm hoping Nolan goes for the same angle - someone surprising to give us a fresh take on a character rather than an actor who fits the existing stereotype of the character.

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Monday, August 4, 2008 4:00 PM

MRBLUESUN


Sorry to butt in again, but someone just raised this in another thread and i thought that i should bring it up here:

Summer Glau as Batgirl.....

Oh and yay for the Riddler (although i gather from the tone of the post that the National Inquier is a somewhar unreliable source), not so sure about Depp in the role though.

I may wear brown, but theres a little purple mixed in there too.

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Monday, August 4, 2008 6:19 PM

PHOENIXROSE

You think you know--what's to come, what you are. You haven't even begun.


Quote:

Originally posted by MrBlueSun:
Summer Glau as Batgirl...


...is almost too awesome to contemplate.

You may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one.

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Tuesday, August 5, 2008 8:52 PM

OPPYH


Quote:

Originally posted by wytchcroft:
christ - so i have to be the odd one out??? how does that get to be fair???

oh well. i love Batman - have done since i was very young - i recently recommended The Killing Joke here on another thread. My favourite period of The Bat is probably Neal Adams, Dennis O'neil - loved the supernatural element. Also a big fan of the first two movies with Keaton. And you have to love the tv show, right?

ok, so i saw The Dark Knight and thought it was an ugly, muddled, misguided, sexist and racist sack of shit that fundamentally misunderstood the character of Batman/Bruce Wayne, stole from genre films that have nothing in common with Batman and failed to move me on any level. Ledger was the only exception - and even the joker was handled badly by the script.

and there you have it.


I loved any issue of Detective Comics drawn by Neal adams(especially the early 70's stuff). Probably the best Batman I have read would be the Dark Knight. Frank Miller truly crafted a masterpiece in 1986, which hasn't been equaled in the comic medium yet.

I don't know why I can't go to a Batman movie and have a good time. I loved the Michael Keaton Batman films as well. This was not a film for a true Batman fan. It did everything in it's power to distance itself from the comic book characters. Overly long. Hated Two Face. Probably won't see the third installment when released!

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 10:16 AM

LWAVES


Quote:

Originally posted by MrBlueSun:


Summer Glau as Batgirl.....




And how about (not the most 'realistic' choices for the movies but....):

Nathan Fillion as Nitewing
Adam Baldwin as Bane
Morena Baccarin as Harley Quinn
Jewel Staite as Nyssa Raatko (Ra's Al Ghuul's daughter)
Ron Glass as The Monk
Gina Torres as Catwoman
Sean Maher as Deadshot
Alan Tudyk as Clayface
Christina Hendricks as Poison Ivy
Mark Sheppard as The Mad Hatter

Hmmm. Now where have I seen that line up before.



"I don't believe in suicide, but if you'd like to try it it might cheer me up to watch."

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 9:20 PM

MRBLUESUN


Quote:

Nathan Fillion as Nitewing

I don't know... isn't Nightwing supposed to be in his early/mid twenties? Maybe Nathan is a bit mature to play Nightwing (i really struggled to find a way of saying that without sounding condescending, sorry). Perhaps Sean Mayer would be a better fit.
Okay now i feel bad for calling Nathan old.... Oooh i know he could play Hush!! Granted it would be a villain role but it would fit with the whole 'dark and realistic' feel that Nolan has been going for and it would give Nathan the chance to stretch those acting muscles (villains are always better than heroes).
Problem solve

I may wear brown, but theres a little purple mixed in there too.

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Saturday, August 9, 2008 9:20 PM

MRBLUESUN


Quote:

Nathan Fillion as Nitewing

I don't know... isn't Nightwing supposed to be in his early/mid twenties? Maybe Nathan is a bit mature to play Nightwing (i really struggled to find a way of saying that without sounding condescending, sorry). Perhaps Sean Mayer would be a better fit.
Okay now i feel bad for calling Nathan old.... Oooh i know he could play Hush!! Granted it would be a villain role but it would fit with the whole 'dark and realistic' feel that Nolan has been going for and it would give Nathan the chance to stretch those acting muscles (villains are always better than heroes).
Problem solved

I may wear brown, but theres a little purple mixed in there too.

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